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post #1891 of 1982 Old 09-09-2011, 12:04 PM
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I've used GBPVR and the new written from scratch version NPVR and they both work great. If you're using Windows 7 I recommend you use Windows Media Center or NPVR.
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post #1892 of 1982 Old 09-09-2011, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellerbrewing View Post

Probably a stupid question, but why don't you just use windows mediacenter?

Or XBMC? Or Boxee (I never tried it)? Or MPC-HomeCinema?

I don't know if any of them let you watch two programs at once.

I don't think Total Media is free, btw.
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post #1893 of 1982 Old 09-09-2011, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo90017 View Post

I've used GBPVR and the new written from scratch version NPVR and they both work great. If you're using Windows 7 I recommend you use Windows Media Center or NPVR.

No wmc here, just old xp sp3. Do you know if they are both still free, and if recordings can be in .tp format? Any other details on use with hdhomerun would be much appreciated.
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post #1894 of 1982 Old 09-14-2011, 11:16 AM
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a8vdeluxe:
TotalMedia isn't free normally, but it was bundled with the most popular HDHR tuners (dual, not single or TECH). I don't know the situation with the latest version of the HDHR. It wasn't included on the CD; you had to download it through the HDHomeRun Setup app. Instructions are here. I don't know if that still works; I haven't tried it since I got my first HDHR years ago. I tried TM, didn't like it and uninstalled it. Maybe I should have given it more of a chance.

Both my HTPC and laptop are old and slow by today's standards (~1.8 GHz single-core). Neither can play MPEG-2 smoothly on its own except using hardware acceleration (DXVA) and then only using nVidia PureVideo Decoder, which was bundled with an OnAir GT tuner. Even then it uses so much CPU that there isn't enough left for any other apps at the same time. MPC-HC and the GT's own app work with the nVidia decoder. VLC has its own codecs and they're not good enough.

The HTPC has a MyHD card that I use mostly for playback now (it eliminates the CPU hogging), with 2 dual HDHRs for recording through CW_EPG. It sounds like you have essentially the same setup except just 1 HDHR. I find that works fine for me, especially since the HDHRs don't lock the files while recording, so the MyHD can play them while they're being recorded. All the advantages of timeshift with none of the drawbacks.

I do wish I could navigate directories to select files directly in MyHD's OSD rather than reverting to a Windows desktop and file manager but that's a small quibble. I know I could add them to a playlist and there are tools to automate that somewhat, but it's not the same functionality.

I'm unclear why you'd want to play a file separately while you're playing another one with your MyHD. Can you explain further?
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post #1895 of 1982 Old 09-14-2011, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebo View Post

a8vdeluxe:
TotalMedia isn't free normally, but it was bundled with the most popular HDHR tuners (dual, not single or TECH). I don't know the situation with the latest version of the HDHR. It wasn't included on the CD; you had to download it through the HDHomeRun Setup app. Instructions are here. I don't know if that still works; I haven't tried it since I got my first HDHR years ago. I tried TM, didn't like it and uninstalled it. Maybe I should have given it more of a chance.

I think TotalMedia uses Titan not Schedules Direct so ruled out cause don't want to pay for another guide subscription that does not work with CW.

Both my HTPC and laptop are old and slow by today's standards (~1.8 GHz single-core). Neither can play MPEG-2 smoothly on its own except using hardware acceleration (DXVA) and then only using nVidia PureVideo Decoder, which was bundled with an OnAir GT tuner. Even then it uses so much CPU that there isn't enough left for any other apps at the same time. MPC-HC and the GT's own app work with the nVidia decoder. VLC has its own codecs and they're not good enough.

My single core HTPC can record 3 shows (2 hdhr, 1 onairgt) , play 2 shows (1 myhd, 1 onair gt), and do light web browsing all at the same time. VLC as a 2nd viewer crushes my system. Suppose you can record about 5 shows simultaneoulsy and watch at least one?

The HTPC has a MyHD card that I use mostly for playback now (it eliminates the CPU hogging), with 2 dual HDHRs for recording through CW_EPG. It sounds like you have essentially the same setup except just 1 HDHR. I find that works fine for me, especially since the HDHRs don't lock the files while recording, so the MyHD can play them while they're being recorded. All the advantages of timeshift with none of the drawbacks.

Our HTPC's are very similar, indeed. Still getting used to hdhr, and noticed as you say myhd can play a live recording straight through, but onair gt only plays up to the time you started watching (ie if you record a show on hdhr and immediatly start watching same recording on onairgt then recording stops at point you started watching and have to reload the damn thing, fast forward to get to prior spot watch, reload, etc. - yours too?

I do wish I could navigate directories to select files directly in MyHD's OSD rather than reverting to a Windows desktop and file manager but that's a small quibble. I know I could add them to a playlist and there are tools to automate that somewhat, but it's not the same functionality.

Agree about myhd file manager - I just use a tray shortcut for file access. My biggest gripe is single tuner limit, and no multiple recording, playing, also no simultaneous playing/recording. Still it is unequivocally the the best single tuner/pvr ever made, and it does keep our old systems going! I still think owners should hot rod this sucker or maybe start over a new hardware based tuner that would blow your socks off... record 20 shows at once in 3D, and show them all like PIP on a big earth shaking movie screen, or show several shows in full screen HD on multiple 60 inchers scattered about the homestead

I'm unclear why you'd want to play a file separately while you're playing another one with your MyHD. Can you explain further?

I'm not watching them at the same time. But would be viewing them more efficiently. If I start recording say 3 shows (x,y,z) at same time and also want to start viewing when recording starts, then I can immediately watch recording x on myhd, during x's commercial watch recording y on yet to be determined viewer with dvr functions, jump back to myhd during y's commercial, after done watching x, start watch recording z on open myhd, etc. So if I record 3 half hour shows with commercials then, with two viewers open at same time, I could watch in about 65 minutes rather than maybe 75 minutes with one player. Not a huge timesaver but it can add up.

*
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post #1896 of 1982 Old 09-15-2011, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a8vdeluxe View Post

I think TotalMedia uses Titan not Schedules Direct so ruled out cause don't want to pay for another guide subscription that does not work with CW.

TitanTV is free. I use it often for its grid display, which CW_EPG lacks. The old TotalMedia setup instructions on the SiliconDust site say it uses Zap2it for scheduling and TitanTV for EPG. I don't know if there's a way to substitute Schedules Direct for Zap2it as was done for CW_EPG or if TTV could be used for scheduling as can be done with many other DVR apps including OnAir and MyHD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a8vdeluxe View Post

Suppose you can record about 5 shows simultaneoulsy and watch at least one?

Yes, but the one would have to be what the MyHD is recording. In CW_EPG I've set the MyHD as the least-preferred tuner for recordings so that it's usually (so far always) available for playback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a8vdeluxe View Post

Our HTPC's are very similar, indeed. Still getting used to hdhr, and noticed as you say myhd can play a live recording straight through, but onair gt only plays up to the time you started watching (ie if you record a show on hdhr and immediatly start watching same recording on onairgt then recording stops at point you started watching and have to reload the damn thing, fast forward to get to prior spot watch, reload, etc. - yours too?

Clearly, great minds think alike. I think I'd found that about the GT but I rarely use it with the HTPC; I bought it to carry with the laptop. BTW, did you know that the GT's software lets you open up to 8 video windows which can show any combination of OnAir tuner(s) and previous recordings? Also does PIP with PIP/Main switching. It takes a faster computer than mine to handle that smoothly, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebo View Post

I'm unclear why you'd want to play a file separately while you're playing another one with your MyHD. Can you explain further?

Quote:
Originally Posted by a8vdeluxe View Post

I'm not watching them at the same time. But would be viewing them more efficiently. If I start recording say 3 shows (x,y,z) at same time and also want to start viewing when recording starts, then I can immediately watch recording x on myhd, during x's commercial watch recording y on yet to be determined viewer with dvr functions, jump back to myhd during y's commercial, after done watching x, start watch recording z on open myhd, etc. So if I record 3 half hour shows with commercials then, with two viewers open at same time, I could watch in about 65 minutes rather than maybe 75 minutes with one player. Not a huge timesaver but it can add up.

That would make my brain hurt. I'd mix up the plots. Why does the CSI team have to wait for DNA analysis? Can't they just ask Bones to use her sonic screwdriver?

I just wait about 15 minutes before I start watching, then fast-forward through the commercials. Or wait until the show ends and edit the commercials out with VideoReDo.
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post #1897 of 1982 Old 09-20-2011, 10:13 AM
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TitanTV is free. I use it often for its grid display, which CW_EPG lacks. The old TotalMedia setup instructions on the SiliconDust site say it uses Zap2it for scheduling and TitanTV for EPG. I don't know if there's a way to substitute Schedules Direct for Zap2it as was done for CW_EPG or if TTV could be used for scheduling as can be done with many other DVR apps including OnAir and MyHD.

May have to look into that, but current setup is pretty sweet

Clearly, great minds think alike.

Enough said

That would make my brain hurt.

With a dual monitors (19" monitor and a big screen HDTV) it is easy to "watch" 2 shows at same time. Once you try it you'll never go back.
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post #1898 of 1982 Old 10-14-2011, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebo View Post

TitanTV is free. I use it often for its grid display, which CW_EPG lacks. The old TotalMedia setup instructions on the SiliconDust site say it uses Zap2it for scheduling and TitanTV for EPG. I don't know if there's a way to substitute Schedules Direct for Zap2it as was done for CW_EPG or if TTV could be used for scheduling as can be done with many other DVR apps including OnAir and MyHD.

Ebo, for kicks I installed TotalMedia using the instructions on HDHomerun's website. Easy install - and now checking it out. This software dvr does have option for hardware acceleration and when I enabled it the CPU usage went from about 70 to 15 - sweet. Also, trying to compare MyHD's picture with TotalMedia but am having a problem. I can view live tv in totalmedia on my computer monitor but when i drag the picture over to my HDTV big screen then the video and sound are lost? Noticed that almost the same thing has always happened when I drag the OnAir GT player over to the big screen except audio is retained but picture is still lost? What else happens is when acceleration is disabled in TotalMedia then I can drag to big screen - pic is good without acceleration enabled but not as good as MyHD and CPU is too darn high without acceleration.

Anyone know how i could get TotalMedia to play with hardware acceleration on, not only my computer monitor but also my hdtv? Also how to get OnAir's video to hdtv?

BTW - EPG works and looks great, trick play is good, scheduling is good - also sees all four of my tuners though read that only can do two recordings at a time.

Update: recognizes but is not compatable with MyHD or OnAir GT - plays nice with HDHomerun.
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post #1899 of 1982 Old 10-14-2011, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a8vdeluxe View Post

I can view live tv in totalmedia on my computer monitor but when i drag the picture over to my HDTV big screen then the video and sound are lost? Noticed that almost the same thing has always happened when I drag the OnAir GT player over to the big screen except audio is retained but picture is still lost? What else happens is when acceleration is disabled in TotalMedia then I can drag to big screen - pic is good without acceleration enabled but not as good as MyHD and CPU is too darn high without acceleration.

Bet you have Nvidia video card. I had same problem with OnAir Creator. Discovered that when using Video Acceleration, you have to select 3D Surface for Video Mixing Render (VMR) in the Dec/Encoder - Video tab for the OnAir Options. Seems that Overlay does not work on multiple monitors. When I had an older ATI card, I don't think I had that problem.

Selecting 3D Surface uses more CPU than Overlay, but less then when DirectX Video Acceleration is turned off.

Don't know how this would be set in TotalMedia.

Greg
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post #1900 of 1982 Old 10-14-2011, 12:24 PM
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Greg, that worked. Thank you! In 3D Surface mode the cpu cycles wave between 15 and 70, not sure why so large swings but it does the job. The above OnAir setting change also worked on TotalMedia after a reboot - but TotalMedia (TM) video was a little jumpy on my old XP box so I'll probably switch back to Overlay mode.

Not many settings in (TM) or no apps or plugins AFAIK just a nice basic software dvr with some other decent media functions included (supposed the full retail 3.5 edition). However, it saves files in .mpg format that won't play in MyHD or OnAir GT. Why can't they all play nice.

Edit - TM is included in HDHomerun's installation download, but TM is not an option if you have WMC -that's good cause WMC is far better. My free license did not include the full TM 3.5 version on Arcsoft's website - a European company. Only has dvr functions and video cropper that can input composite video and burn to dvd, or crop hdtv captures. Missing modules include radio tuner, and On the Go for Itune stuff. I did like the EPG look, nice and big, guide data is complete for all channels so probably comes from Titan, not station, but only showed 1 days worth of info, and guide is on a separate page so guide info can't be viewed on live tv page. PIP is nice with homerun's dual tuners but neon green line window bordering is annoying. Has a shut down computer after record option that is good if you only have one recording planned while at work or away. For multiple recordings you should manually change your computer's Power Settings to sleep after 15 minutes of inactivity. That way computer also wakes between recordings. Full screen mode looks good but windowed viewing could only be re-sized in 4:3 ratio (this tells me TM is old school and not being updated). Not sure how one would configure a remote/receiver to work with TM front end - HDHomerun back end? Many keyboard shortcuts are available in manual. http://download.arcsoft.com/download...5_manual_e.pdf


If you have a HDHomerun dual tuner and no windows media center then TM app works and will get you merrily DVRing in no time at all. Call this the review of the poor man's Tivo written by a hack.
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post #1901 of 1982 Old 02-25-2012, 05:00 PM
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Hello folks,

Thank you so much for starting this thread. Very informative. Had a few questions for you folks.

Here's my setup just to give you a visual.

I'm currently with Cablevsion. I have three HD DVRs. Each runs me about $20/month (DVR fee plus the box rental), almost $60/month total.

I just recently switched from DishNetwork. Cablevision made me an offer I couldn't refuse. $69/mo for all services (cable/phone/broadband). I got them to lock the price for 2 years as opposed to 1. However, I do know what to expect as soon as the contract is over. We'll cross that bridge when we get there.

I was quite surprised at the lack of features of Cablevision's DVR and the archaic UI. Both for the guide and the DVR menu. I just can't see paying so much in monthly DVR and box rental fees. The cost doesn't justify the service rendered.

Hence the reason I'm here.

I looked at Tivo. It seems to be great but way too expensive. Especially when I have no choice but to get 3 boxes. An investment of $2400.

The main LR/Office (small corner of the LR is an office/PC area):

A triple monitor setup (all DVI) with a 4th DVI out to the LR HD projector.

PC Specs:

Intel Core 2 Quad Processor Q6600
OCZ Fatal1ty Edition 8GB (4 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666)
3 x SAMSUNG EcoGreen F4 HD204UI 2TB SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive (6TB Total)
JATON VIDEO PX309 QUAD Radeon HD3450 4 DVI outputs 512MB DDR2 Per GPU 1GB Total Onboard PCI Express 2.0 x16 Video Card
Auzentech X-Mystique 7.1 Gold
3 x Acer G235HAbd 23'' WideScreen LCD Monitor
Windows 7 Ultimate

Home Theater:

Panasonic PT-AE900U
Bose Lifestyle 48

Master Bedroom:

Philips 42" LCD
Bose 321GS
XBOX 360
Apple TV (1st gen)

Baby's Room:

32" LCD
(I'll either get another media extender or maybe hook up a laptop in this room)

All rooms are wired via ethernet.

Now for the questions:

I've read that the HDH6 is actually two HDH3s together. You'll need a coax splitter no matter which version you get, right?

If I purchase the HDH3 now, I can always purchase another one later if I feel the need for 3+ tuners. The only thing I lose out on is the fact that the HDH6 will be just one STB? Is that the only thing I lose?

Anyone here have Cablevision setup with their prime? How's your setup so far? Anything I should know or look for?

I did confirm with Cablevision that I can get 2 MCards for $2/mo. However, I failed to ask about the, copy once, copy freely and copy never thingie. Just learned about that today.

So, with the HDH3, I'll be able to record 3 shows at once, or watch 2 and record 1? Also, in different rooms, like a multi-room DVR would?

Can you use the original XBOX as a media extender? I have a few of those lying around. Had XBMC running on them 'til I upgraded to Apple TVs with XBMC.

Apologies for the long post. Figured I'd give as much info as possible.

Thanks in advance for all your help.

KSN
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post #1902 of 1982 Old 02-25-2012, 10:36 PM
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Mod's edit: No off topic Tivo commercials please.
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post #1903 of 1982 Old 02-26-2012, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSN380 View Post

I've read that the HDH6 is actually two HDH3s together. You'll need a coax splitter no matter which version you get, right?

If I purchase the HDH3 now, I can always purchase another one later if I feel the need for 3+ tuners. The only thing I lose out on is the fact that the HDH6 will be just one STB? Is that the only thing I lose?

Anyone here have Cablevision setup with their prime? How's your setup so far? Anything I should know or look for?

I did confirm with Cablevision that I can get 2 MCards for $2/mo. However, I failed to ask about the, copy once, copy freely and copy never thingie. Just learned about that today.

So, with the HDH3, I'll be able to record 3 shows at once, or watch 2 and record 1? Also, in different rooms, like a multi-room DVR would?

Can you use the original XBOX as a media extender? I have a few of those lying around. Had XBMC running on them 'til I upgraded to Apple TVs with XBMC.

You've done your homework. I think I can answer a few of the remaining questions.

Yes, you need a splitter either way. The 6 is just two 3 tuner units in one box.

If you use extenders, like Xbox 360, then you don't have to worry about the copy restrictions so much. When you watch with an extender, to the DRM it's like you're watching on the computer.

Yes, with the HDHR3, you can tune 3 things at the same time and each of the three tuners can be dynamically allocated to any computer on your network, but only one at a time. If two computers are watching/recording the same thing, two tuners are being used.

I don't think the original Xboxes will work.
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post #1904 of 1982 Old 02-26-2012, 03:49 PM
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Been recording and viewing quite happily for the last few years. Record off the HDHR box and 2 Fusion cards from a 40' tower and huge UHF antenna. Also 2 HDPVR boxes for ABC and satellite stuff. Use a MYHD card for most viewing. Every so often there might be some pixelation or frame freeze but not so much as to do anything about it. It could have been weather.

Recently I decided to fully upgrade my network to all gigabit. I had a gigabit switch on the shelf, bought a Netgear WNDR 4000 and one gigabit card. One of the two computers already was gigabit ready. Got it all up and running. Initially all seemed super and then I ran across this phenomenon. While recording off the HDHR box on a computer behind the router the router would not let any wireless device log on and use the network. The router would be wildly blinking while the recording was going on. When I stopped the recording the blinking ceased and any laptop that had been turned on would then be logged on and allowed to access the internet.

I thought that was a new problem and to confirm it I took out the new router and put the old Netgear WGT 624 back in. Set up the same situation and the same thing happened. So I must have ignored or not seen this problem before. While recording I'm usually watching so not likely to use a laptop.

So,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, anybody else see this problem?????????

I sent the new Netgear back and bought a Belkin. If that doesn't fix this I'll try a Linksys. If that doen't fix it I'll take it back and get the Netgear again. I really like the Netgear user interface. That is if nobody has another brand router that fixes it.

Thanks, Allen
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post #1905 of 1982 Old 02-26-2012, 05:17 PM
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You may also want to consider isolating the video network traffic from the wireless. A separate gigabit switch would help do that. Not sure if that's how you've got it already. As in, put the HDHR and other heavy video traffic devices on their own switch and use a single gigabit uplink from that one to the rest of the network.

And not sure what you mean by being 'behind' the router. Typically the router has a WAN uplink to your ISP and then all your internal traffic is 'behind' that router. All your other stuff inside is on the same subnet. Can you better describe just what you have connected to where?
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post #1906 of 1982 Old 02-26-2012, 05:41 PM
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In one corner of the room (the 58" Panny plasma is on the other side of the wall) is one computer with the MYHD card, a switch and the HDHR box. The antenna comes up thru the floor there too. The computer and HDHR are plugged into the switch. One cable runs from the switch across the room to the router where the other computer is plugged in.

I try and do most recording on the computer plugged (behind) into the router so as not to interfere with MYHD. I know the MYHD doesn't take too much but its just habit and the TB of disk is also on that machine. Long time old configuration. Runs fine with this one exception. I was just wunderin' if anybody else might have a near configuration and could test it. Just curious.
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post #1907 of 1982 Old 02-26-2012, 06:16 PM
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Ok, so by running a single wire across to the router and having the other computer plugged into it, you're running whatever video traffic that PC needs through both the router and the switch over by the computer and the HDHR. For the sake of isolating the problem you might want to temporarily run a line over to that PC so it's not running through the switch integral to the router. Not convenient, perhaps, but useful to isolate if it's really the router at fault. Don't rule out that other switch, some are less reliable than others (but most are pretty dumb and "just work" most of the time).

The switches inside most SOHO consumer-grade routers isn't really capable of handling a lot of traffic. They "can" but they often fail in subtle and hard to debug ways. I had a number of odd bottleneck problems go away by avoiding connecting any PCs that needed bulk video traffic to a router. At this point the only thing connecting to my router is an uplink to separate switch. I'm careful to avoid having two switches connected as traffic would then get sent through the router's switch. Better to treat the router as a single endpoint instead of a central device. At least with consumer grade stuff, that is.

And make sure you don't have any looped connections. Doesn't sound like you do, but never hurts to ask and be sure.
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post #1908 of 1982 Old 02-26-2012, 07:15 PM
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So do most users plug their HDHR box right into the recording computer??? I might guess most users plug their HDHR box into a switch or router and therefore may be susceptible to the same phenomenon. I've got lots of ethernet cable laying around and will try plugging the HDHR box into the router. That is after I get the Belkin installed and see if it too has similar behavior.
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post #1909 of 1982 Old 02-26-2012, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenDB View Post


...
While recording off the HDHR box on a computer behind the router the router would not let any wireless device log on and use the network. The router would be wildly blinking while the recording was going on. When I stopped the recording the blinking ceased and any laptop that had been turned on would then be logged on and allowed to access the internet.

...

So,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, anybody else see this problem?????????

...
Thanks, Allen

Hi,

I just started up two of the tuners on the same HDHR box.

I used the HDHR GUI and VLC, one HTPC wired and one wireless.

Both are streaming just fine.

Netgear WNDR3700, 1TB NAS and HTPC all 1GB.

I never have seen any problem.

Is your HDHR firmware up to date, I think mine is one step back, need to check.

Note: The WNDR3700 is my router, all four ports are in use and the DSL box.

SHF
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post #1910 of 1982 Old 02-27-2012, 06:14 AM
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Been recording and viewing quite happily for the last few years. Record off the HDHR box and 2 Fusion cards from a 40' tower and huge UHF antenna. Also 2 HDPVR boxes for ABC and satellite stuff. Use a MYHD card for most viewing. Every so often there might be some pixelation or frame freeze but not so much as to do anything about it. It could have been weather.

Recently I decided to fully upgrade my network to all gigabit. I had a gigabit switch on the shelf, bought a Netgear WNDR 4000 and one gigabit card. One of the two computers already was gigabit ready. Got it all up and running. Initially all seemed super and then I ran across this phenomenon. While recording off the HDHR box on a computer behind the router the router would not let any wireless device log on and use the network. The router would be wildly blinking while the recording was going on. When I stopped the recording the blinking ceased and any laptop that had been turned on would then be logged on and allowed to access the internet.

I thought that was a new problem and to confirm it I took out the new router and put the old Netgear WGT 624 back in. Set up the same situation and the same thing happened. So I must have ignored or not seen this problem before. While recording I'm usually watching so not likely to use a laptop.

So,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, anybody else see this problem?????????

I sent the new Netgear back and bought a Belkin. If that doesn't fix this I'll try a Linksys. If that doen't fix it I'll take it back and get the Netgear again. I really like the Netgear user interface. That is if nobody has another brand router that fixes it.

Thanks, Allen

While I haven't seen that problem specifically, I have seen routers flake out and not allow wireless connections because of too much traffic on the cable side of the connection. I also think a switch would be a good idea. All my HDHR's hang off of the switch the HTPC is connected to.
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So do most users plug their HDHR box right into the recording computer??? I might guess most users plug their HDHR box into a switch or router and therefore may be susceptible to the same phenomenon. I've got lots of ethernet cable laying around and will try plugging the HDHR box into the router. That is after I get the Belkin installed and see if it too has similar behavior.

I doubt anyone would bother plugging the HDHR straight into their PC. That would sort of defeat the purpose of it being usable as a network device. I mean, you COULD go with a direct connection on its own network card in the PC but that would raise other networking complications. It's more useful to connect the PC and the HDHR to the same switch and have that switch, in turn, connected to the rest of the network. This keeps the raw ethernet packet traffic segregated from the rest of the network.

Think of a very long series of freight cars (not a connected train). You COULD jump in-between them as they pass but more often than not you wouldn't make it. This analogy works when thinking about network devices that pass a lot of traffic. Yes, other traffic "can" get through but it'd be at the mercy of finding a random free interval to do it. Using a switch helps, of course, but using a switch isolated from all the rest helps even more. This way that bulk traffic only has to get arbitrated by the local switch, not the one handling all the rest of the network's traffic.

Adding wireless to the mix makes it even more useful to have switches setup to segregate the traffic. With wired devices the switch can, most of the time, cleanly handle the stop/start passing of packets without losing them. With wireless it has to deal with possible loss over the air or interference first and THEN add the network congestion on the wire. This leads to a much greater likelihood of packet loss and retries.

None of which the user "sees" immediately, they just notice poor or uneven performance.

Now, go a step further and introduce a combo device like a consumer-grade wireless router. You're expecting the switch on it to pass all that traffic. And then expecting it to handle integrating wireless traffic. Which has it's own CPU load due to likely use of wifi security encryption. I've had little faith in the ability of most consumer grade devices to handle anything more than trivial web traffic. Especially when they start to add "features" designed to "help" consumers (like filtering and the like). Video, multicast, streaming and the like quickly overwhelm low-end devices and they don't always fail in graceful or easy to diagnose ways.

That said, it's fine to use devices like this, just understand how to buffer them from becoming overwhelmed. A little bit of planning and the strategic use of switches can often make a huge difference in overall network performance and reliability.

Just don't take it too far, as ethernet does have limits on how switches can be in a hierarchy, along with cable quality requirements and length limits. Get a few of those things wrong and it can get a LOT harder to diagnose what's wrong. Like too many unmanaged (aka dumb) switches daisy-chained together using poor quality cabling. With unmanaged switches you can't tell which ports are acting up, let alone why. Most of the time they keep retrying, often making the problem worse. Typically the only way a user can tell anything's wrong is by seeing the switch blinking ALL of its lights frantically, as that's a sign of traffic retrying so much as to become impossible to pass anything in a useful manner.

So, in short, knowing what kind of traffic your devices are going to require and segregating them appropriately goes a long way toward eliminating debugging hassles down the road. Thankfully 5 or 8 port switches are dirt cheap these days.
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So do most users plug their HDHR box right into the recording computer??? I might guess most users plug their HDHR box into a switch or router and therefore may be susceptible to the same phenomenon. I've got lots of ethernet cable laying around and will try plugging the HDHR box into the router. That is after I get the Belkin installed and see if it too has similar behavior.

Like wkearney99 and Lar, I have a little 4 port D-Link switch that isolates my HTPC and two HDHRs from the rest of my net.
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My HDHR is plugged directly into the PC that serves as my media server, I'm currently using SageTV as the software for the HDHR tuners. That PC is then plugged into a gigabit router(D-Link DIR-655) that feeds 2 "client" PCs. Works very well.
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OK, so it might be that running the HDHR thru the router may kinda overload it or keep it too busy to service wireless.......... Hmmmm, then my configuration is kinda unique. I'm gonna pursue this a bit further. Got the Belkin sitting right here. Also when I just view something on the HTPC the router will handle wireless. Its when I'm recording something. Interesting enough to dig into more.

Thanks for the insight.

Allen
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post #1915 of 1982 Old 02-27-2012, 12:32 PM
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My HDHR is plugged directly into the PC that serves as my media server, I'm currently using SageTV as the software for the HDHR tuners. That PC is then plugged into a gigabit router(D-Link DIR-655) that feeds 2 "client" PCs. Works very well.

**************************************************
I assume even in your configuration the HDHR box needs an ip address to be serviced. Your PC then must act as a switch routing requests between the router and HDHR box which I find curious. On the other hand I may not understand anything at all on how ip address are generated. Or your HDHR box doesn't need an ip addresss but it works.@#T$#*(%^#%%@$#%^#$&#%^&%$

Allen
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**************************************************
I assume even in your configuration the HDHR box needs an ip address to be serviced. Your PC then must act as a switch routing requests between the router and HDHR box which I find curious. On the other hand I may not understand anything at all on how ip address are generated. Or your HDHR box doesn't need an ip addresss but it works.@#T$#*(%^#%%@$#%^#$&#%^&%$

Allen

The router also has 4 gigabit ports. Below is a visual of my setup, keep in mind that the HDHR is physically plugged into the "ServerHome" PC. The DVRs and the PS3 are plugged into a 5 port gigabit switch which is then connected to the 4-port router. The iPhone is wireless of course. The faded green lines mean offline/turned off. The HDHR does have an IP address but it always shows as "offline" even though it functions perfectly fine. I think there's something in the way the associated HDHR software is installed that takes care of all that but it's been so long since I've had to mess with it I really haven't clue how it works.

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post #1917 of 1982 Old 02-27-2012, 05:09 PM
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When you use an additional network interface in the PC the devices on it only need to be routed out to the rest of network if you want other PCs getting to them. It'd be perfectly fine to have an HDHR hanging off a 2nd port, assuming your PC came with another or you added it. The HDHR could either be configured a with static address or it'd default to using the 169. unassigned range.

The only advantage to doing it would be total isolation. But when you use a switch that has sufficient internal bandwidth you're pretty close to accomplishing the same thing. Note I did not talk about port speed. Some switches are more robust than others. Some gigabit switches barely have enough internal bandwidth to allow more than one or two devices to get near gigabit throughput. It's hard to tell though. Thus it's sometimes better to be on the safe side and segregate the traffic in ways that avoid congesting there rest of the network.

Keep the freight train analogy in mind. Think of how the bulk traffic might be moving and how that could interfere with other data. And be sure to factor in file storage as it doesn't do much good to have the video devices isolated if there are bottlenecks for the saving the resulting files. It's in that situation where it's sometimes useful to have a multi-homed fileserver, or teamed ethernet links. But neither of those should be set up without a thorough understanding of whether or not the NICs and switches will support them properly.

Thus starting small with a switch to segregate stuff is a good start.
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The router also has 4 gigabit ports. Below is a visual of my setup:

Which means your picture really doesn't represent your network. As it doesn't show the switch.
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keep in mind that the HDHR is physically plugged into the "ServerHome" PC. The DVRs and the PS3 are plugged into a 5 port gigabit switch which is then connected to the 4-port router.

Yes, that's exactly the sort of segregation of traffic that I'm talking about here. You're keeping the DVR's traffic from getting slammed through the wireless router (and God help anyone naive enough to try and use a DVR wirelessly). This means the PCs, which I assume are into the router's ports directly, are going to get better throughput, both to each other and out to the internet. Meanwhile the DVRs can do their multi-room transfers and such without bogging down the rest of the network.
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Which means your picture really doesn't represent your network. As it doesn't show the switch.

Yes, that's exactly the sort of segregation of traffic that I'm talking about here. You're keeping the DVR's traffic from getting slammed through the wireless router (and God help anyone naive enough to try and use a DVR wirelessly). This means the PCs, which I assume are into the router's ports directly, are going to get better throughput, both to each other and out to the internet. Meanwhile the DVRs can do their multi-room transfers and such without bogging down the rest of the network.

Correct on all assumptions. I can't really remember why I set it up that way but I'm guessing it was simply due to lack of additional ports on the router. In any case, it works very well and I've never noticed any traffic issues among any of the connected devices.

The image is part of some networking software I purchased years ago, and you're correct, it does not display accurately all the connections.
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post #1920 of 1982 Old 02-28-2012, 07:52 AM
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So if you plug an HDHR directly into a machine its kinda like turning it into a USB device. I thought the ethernet interface gave it flexibility like it has 2 tuners that two PCs could use. But at least I was correct in assuming that a NIC card or onboard PC ethernet interface are not switch capable. Like another PC can go to the PC that has the HDHR plugged into it and us it. Too many itsssss.

Why would HDHR use an ethernet interface if switches and routers can't handle the traffic

They can handle the traffic (my recordings are all fine) but I still think there is a the peculiarity of not handling wireless at the same time.
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