Semi-Official BD and HD DVD on an HTPC Configuration/Playback FAQ - AVS Forum
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Old 11-15-2006, 01:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Purpose

This thread has grown out of the many scattered threads around playing back HD DVDs and Blue Ray disks on your Home Theater PC. Given the bleeding edge nature of this process, it takes a lot of work and the results are still being fine tuned. This thread would not have been possible without work by pteittinen as well as others who have contributed throughout the struggles.

I have divided this into HD DVD and BD sections, with notes at the end for using both. Please add to the areas where we have gaps, and expect this to radically change as more official software is released.


Blue Ray Playback

Blu Ray disks can be played back on an HTPC as long as you have a compliant drive, an HDCP-capable video card, and an HDCP display. These last two are not always needed, but you will want them to save some grief in the future. I have the Sony BRU-1000, so that is what I will write based on. If others have different drives and software please chime in.

Software

BD owners have 2 choices for playing back their disks. The first is to use the software bundled with their drive. In my case this was Cyberlink's PowerDVD 6 OEM version. It only supports BD, and is a crippled version in that it only outputs 2 channel audio. It does however support full 1080p resolution. You must make sure to patch the software with the latest patch in order to play commercial BDs. PLEASE NOTE: The key code is case sensitive when you get to the upgrade web page.

The second choice for BD owners is to use WinDVD. Unfortunately the version of WinDVD that is available currently in the U.S. (WinDVD 8 platinum) does not support HD DVd or BD. You must instead purchase the version from Japan. Please see the following link for detailed instructions on what to do at the web page:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post8871286

Make sure not to use a free email address such as Hotmail, it will reject the page. Once you have paid you will get another email that contains both the hyperlink for download and the serial number. Both are readable if you are not a Japanese speaker. Once you have downloaded the software install it. At the end it will ask if you want the BD or HD DVD version. For our purposes here choose BD. Reboot.

Once it comes back from reboot you must go here and download the following software:

210.189.94.64, /pool/WinDVDBD43214.zip

Go to the registry and look for the folowing key:

HKLM\\Software\\Intervideo\\DVDEX, key named SERIALCODE. Copy the value from this key into a text file or something. Now, uninstall WinDVD BD and make sure to delete any files or folders left. Reboot.

Install the software from above. When it asks you for a serial code DO NOT use the one you got to install WinDVD. Use the one you copied out of the registry. Once the install finishes, reboot. You now have full resolution playback with hardware acceleration and full multichannel audio. You can ONLY play BD disks, not SD DVDs. You WILL have to set the BD region to play many BD disks. Select your region and then hit Apply.

HD DVD Playback

Options are far more limited on HD DVD. At this point the only readily available HD DVD drive is the XBox 360 HD DVD add-on, which wasn't meant to be a PC drive. It works however .

Software

As above, install WinDVD Japanese version. However select HD DVD. Reboot. When you plug in your XBox drive it will find some of the drivers but not the XBox memory controller. That's ok, just cancel them. You can now play back commercial HD DVDs, but they are downrezzed to 960*540p. Self-authored DVDs that do not contain AACS keys are NOT downrezzed. There has not been a method to crack this yet. You can however connect it to a non-compliant monitor.

** Please note: Even though it is downrezzed it MAY require an HDCP compliant video card to work. There are conflicting reports as to the truth of this.

Alternative Software

Some laptops that are coming with BD or HD DVD drives have their own software versions. These generally support full functions. Please patch accordingly. Additionally, both Cyberlink and Intervideo are promising full solutions for playback in the new year. We can hope they come soon, at least for HD DVD since that is the one that likes a viable solution at this point.

If you want to be able to explore the file structure of the HD DVD disks you need UDF drivers for the device. These do not give you any playback ability, but they do let you see the complete disk structure. They are not required for Vista. They can be downloaded here:

http://rapidshare.com/files/3149367/...Print.rar.html

If you want to be able to play back SD DVDs without using WinDVD, you can do that by having the latest Nero 7 package installed and using the drivers above. Nero will then be able to read the 360 drive and play the SD DVDs.

Running Both Versions

If like me you have both drives and want to run WinDVD for both, you have some work to do. WinDVD only allows one installed version at a time. Download the SVS Personal Edition client from Altiris and install it. This is freeware software that allows you to isolate applications. Run SVS and use it to create an installation layer for each version of the software, then switch between them as needed. It's not complicated, just a pain. Altiris SVS can be downloaded here:

http://www.tucows.com/get/501322_200368

Once installed you will have to reboot. After reboot open the program and choose to capture a New Layer. Make it an Application layer and choose Global. It will minimize to the task bar as a little lightning bolt. Install whichever version of WinDVD you want. Choose not to reboot at the end. Right-click the lightning bolt and end the capture. You can now set that application layer to launch by default if you want, but you can only have one of the two open at the same time. The last one opened will win the battle. Reboot your PC. For the BD version, go back to the layer and make sure it is deactivated. Choose the option to modify it and choose Global again. Run the patch software to bring it up to date, then end the capture again. Reboot. Your BD layer is now ready to go.

Whatever changes you make inside a layer are NOT saved unless you are in Modify mode first. So if you want to set your defaults, etc; go in and do all of that in Modify and then end the capture. You can also manually edit all sorts of details like install paths, reg keys, etc; SVS is a fascinating package and I highly recommend it if you've got troublesome apps that don't like to coexist.

Conclusions

Is this ready for prime time? Nope. But it works, given the limitations presented above. As the software evolves and as we get some fixes for the various issues, this will become a far more reasonable solution.

Someday maybe I'll actually WATCH my projector...
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Old 11-15-2006, 01:29 PM
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Note that the IP address 210.189.94.64 is actually InterVideo's public FTP server, so you need an FTP client to connect to it. At least it didn't work with Firefox just now.

.: petri

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Old 11-15-2006, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madpoet View Post

Even though it is downrezzed it does require an HDCP compliant video card to work.

I was able to get it to work with the Geforce 6150 integrated graphics using vga (ASUS M2NPV-VM, MCE 2005, Japanese Version of WinDVD HD). I do not think the graphics on this motherboard is HDCP compliant. It did in fact downrez to 960x540p. Not smooth playback though. Would like the ability to enable hardware acceleration to see how much of a difference it would make
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Old 11-15-2006, 01:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Worked in IE earlier, but it was slow. It was faster via FTP.

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Old 11-15-2006, 01:39 PM
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I think laptops have slightly different rules when it comes to AACS/HDCP, due to the screen being a part of the system. Connecting to an external display requires full HDCP, naturally.

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Old 11-15-2006, 01:45 PM
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The ASUS M2NPV-VM is a Micro-ATX board for desktop use and the Geforce 6150 integrated graphics is not hdcp compliant
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Old 11-15-2006, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post

Note that the IP address 210.189.94.64 is actually InterVideo's public FTP server, so you need an FTP client to connect to it. At least it didn't work with Firefox just now.

.: petri

It should work in both FF and IE. Both have ftp components built in. ftp://210.189.94.64/.

Chris
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Old 11-15-2006, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Interesting... I was told by several people it required HDCP compliance. I'll put a notation next to it that it may not be true.

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Old 11-15-2006, 01:58 PM
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That may be why they have not enabled full rez support and hardware acceleration....it is still in the works.

In theory once the software has been finalized, I would think I would be able to enable hardware acceleration and still be limited to 540p and others with hdcp compliant graphics would not be limited to 540p.
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Old 11-15-2006, 02:05 PM
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I am sorry - I am really trying to understand all of this and I have read about it ad nauseum.

1) I don't know of any rules (at least documented or public) that talk about Laptop versus stand alone PC versus traditional CE device for AACS/HDCP. I know there has been much talk from folks that should know more than me about what will be required for PC playback of HD-DVD / BD, but I have not read anything definitive. If you know of these rules, please let me know.

2) just using logic (which I know is not always helpful), I am not sure how a laptop has different rules than a stand alone PC. Yeah, it is a little more "closed", but not materially so in my opinion.

3) The image constraint token - I thought that was not going to be "turned on" for some time. That is, I can send a 1080P signal to my display via non HDCP and it will not down-res - at least that was my understanding. Are PC's treated differently? Why? Where is the official language for this? Sounds like with the HD-DVD it wont play at all without HDCP - is that the way it is supposed to work? Again where are the rules for this?

4) How does the Xbox 360 use an add on player and output 1080P that is not HDCP then? Is the 360 good to go as long as IKAT is not turned on? Once it is then.... well will see then I suppose

5) And oh please where is the MC/MAC stuff. To quote my favorite play "something is rotten in Denmark". What a crock.......

end rant
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Old 11-15-2006, 02:13 PM
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I should have thanked madpoet for pulling this info together - thanks. Int he spirit in which this thread was started, I hope to be able to add this body of knowledge soon when I attempt the BD solution on one of my PC's.

Thanks madpoet.
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Old 11-15-2006, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Answers:

1) No idea
2) Closed system, self contained. That's my guess anyway
3) Intervideo has chosen to implement ICT. No one is quite sure why since they don't seem to be required to. They must have thought they'd get sued.
4) Who knows...
5) Mac? Mac? Next you'll be asking for Linux!!!

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Old 11-15-2006, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisL01 View Post

It should work in both FF and IE. Both have ftp components built in. ftp://210.189.94.64/.

My internet connection must've hiccupped just when I tested that the first time. It sure works now in FF.

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Old 11-15-2006, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Updated slightly to reflect that self-authored HD DVDs are not affected by the down rez.

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Old 11-15-2006, 02:24 PM
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My guesses posing as answers to Paul's questions:

1) Since ICT is not used, data route to laptop's screen is considered an analog connection which does not require HDCP. Therefore you can display movies at whatever resolution the laptop's screen is capable of, or at least up to 1080p. Leastways, that's how it was once explained to me - I'm not too sure about it, as it sounds a bit fishy. It could be that the connection is simply considered secure enough and that's it.
2) See #1.
3) As far as I know, Intervideo is not implementing ICT per se. They are simply downrezzing everything (which looks like the same thing, yeah) to avoid being sued by AACS LA. The reason for this was given (by Intervideo) as them being unable to guarantee a 100% encrypted connection, due to display drivers and whatnot. So, they're playing it safe.
4) As ICT is not implemented, Xbox 360 can output HD DVD movies as 1080p via VGA and VGA only (*). Component is limited to 1080i for movies, but for games component outputs 1080p.
5) Mac? Boot Camp and WinXP

(*): This "VGA hole" exists on PC as well: PowerDVD 6.6BD suggests using VGA when it fails to enable HDCP over DVI/HDMI. Too bad there aren't more FPTVs/RPTVs/projectors capable of 1080p over VGA.

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Old 11-15-2006, 02:34 PM
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edit: previous poster beat me with answer about laptop

cudos to madpoet for creating this FAQ!
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Old 11-15-2006, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
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I will disagree slightly about Intervideo not using ICT. The only thing they are downrezzing is AACS protected material, and not self-created HD DVDs or BDs. So while it's not truly ICT, it is in effect the same thing.

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Old 11-15-2006, 03:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Added the info for UDF file browing and the Nero stuff for SD DVD playback.

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Old 11-15-2006, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madpoet View Post

I will disagree slightly about Intervideo not using ICT. The only thing they are downrezzing is AACS protected material, and not self-created HD DVDs or BDs. So while it's not truly ICT, it is in effect the same thing.

Yeah, good point. However! According to specs, downrezzing caused by ICT takes place only when the disc/stream has the ICT flag set. As the titles released so far have no ICT flag, WinDVD can't rely on that to decide when to downrez. So, logically, the wacky folks at Intervideo have decided to downrez whenever the disc is AACS encrypted. It's got nothing to do with ICT.

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Old 11-15-2006, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Ah, makes sense I guess. Who knows, Intervideo seems to be living in fear of lawsuits. Just glad we've got BD working now. I'll continue my work this evening on getting the settings translated to HD DVD.

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Old 11-15-2006, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madpoet View Post

Ah, makes sense I guess. Who knows, Intervideo seems to be living in fear of lawsuits. Just glad we've got BD working now. I'll continue my work this evening on getting the settings translated to HD DVD.

I'm not guessing about the fear of lawsuits; they told me that personally. Good luck with the translation!

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Old 11-15-2006, 03:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Heh, well, there ya go! Edited it again to reflect how to install and use Altiris' SVS software.

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Old 11-15-2006, 04:50 PM
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Not an addition by any means but for those of us that run the "AVS White" layout to the forum the Yellow headers are extremely hard on the eyes.

- Josh
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Old 11-15-2006, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Better Josh?

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Old 11-15-2006, 05:36 PM
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Thanks to all for the feedback / info. It sounds like I could play back 1080P via my PC (non HDCP) if the HD-DVD / BD software application will allow. Just that WinDVD is taking a rather VERY conservative position.

Thanks again.
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Old 11-15-2006, 05:46 PM
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Someone will find a way, it will just take time. Either that or we will have to wait until Cyberlink or Intervideo releases a full 1080P PC software player for HD-DVD. Actually if we had the assistance of a really good cracker/hacker they could probably peruse through WinDVD's running code in memory and figure out how to unlock 1080P, because it's obvious WinDVD can read the filestream from the HD-DVD and play it , but the software is simply locked at 540P currently for silly reasons. It stands to reason that a simple 1 line of code or a bit change from 0 to 1 somewhere could unlock this ability. Someone prevail must for sake of HD-DVD on PC!
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Old 11-15-2006, 05:50 PM
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I vote for a sticky on this FAQ. As it will become pretty darned important to DIY folks which 95%+ of HTPC folks are. Oh and if we are using this thread now instead of the other one. MadPoet could you put a link to the other thread in your FAQ somewhere so we can keep a record of the other thread's original progression? So we know what's been tried etc.

Oh cool it was already stickied.
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Old 11-15-2006, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post

I'm not guessing about the fear of lawsuits; they told me that personally. Good luck with the translation!

Given that DeCSS came from a crappy implementation of the Xing software player, and that DVD-Audio was hacked from WinDVD itself, I'm not surprised they're worried.

I think they were under pressure to produce "a solution" and settled on a crippled solution just to get something out there. I'm impressed that PowerDVD works, even if done in such a roundabout way.

Kudos to madpoet for all of this work. You're paving the way for the rest of us!

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Old 11-15-2006, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madpoet View Post

Better Josh?

hehe yup thanks. Now just figure out how to get full rez working

thanks for all the work so far, you've been a great inspiration to all of us.

- Josh
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Old 11-16-2006, 06:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Some progress, some set backs

First, on the progress front. Once you have the BD version updated with the newest patch as above you can set the hardware acceleration, etc; If you then export the reg keys under HKLM\\Software\\Intervideo and import them once you have installed WinDVD HD the settings carry over. You have to go in and make BDSupport 0 and HDSupport 1. The keys are still greyed out, but they are now checked. I THINK I'm getting acceleration but I need more testing to be sure.

On the bad side... I went tro play some more BD disks last night, newer stuff like KoH. WinDVD kept giving me an error saying the disks were encoded for Region A and I needed a Region A player to play them. I tried setting the region on my drive to North America but it didn't help. *sigh* I am baffled. The Cyberlink player plays them fine BTW, so it's (again) a WinDVD thing.

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