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post #1 of 8247 Old 12-22-2006, 06:34 AM - Thread Starter
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......is downloadable as of this morning:

http://www.cyberlink.com/multi/produ...n_112_ENU.html

Reportedly supports both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray playback in the PC.

Awaiting user reports.

Gary

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post #2 of 8247 Old 12-22-2006, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

......is downloadable as of this morning:

http://www.cyberlink.com/multi/produ...n_112_ENU.html

Reportedly supports both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray playback in the PC.

Awaiting user reports.

Gary

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post #3 of 8247 Old 12-22-2006, 07:38 AM
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"High-definition audio technologies - Pure high-definition audio with Dolby Digital Plus, TrueHD, DTS-HD"

Can a pc with a Blu Ray or HDVD drive decode the next gen audio formats and output them in multi channel linear pcm like the current crop of standalone HD DVD/Blu Ray players?

Which sound cards support this? X Meridian, X-Fi etc, Intel HD audio?
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post #4 of 8247 Old 12-22-2006, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtwilly57 View Post

"High-definition audio technologies - Pure high-definition audio with Dolby Digital Plus, TrueHD, DTS-HD"

Can a pc with a Blu Ray or HDVD drive decode the next gen audio formats and output them in multi channel linear pcm like the current crop of standalone HD DVD/Blu Ray players?

I don't see why not.

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Which sound cards support this? X Meridian, X-Fi etc, Intel HD audio?

It shouldn't matter.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #5 of 8247 Old 12-22-2006, 08:26 AM
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Sorry if this is a dumb question but do you need an HDCP compliant video card to use this software at 720p, 1080i or 1080p?
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post #6 of 8247 Old 12-22-2006, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by wayner9 View Post

Sorry if this is a dumb question but do you need an HDCP compliant video card to use this software at 720p, 1080i or 1080p?

Yes for commercial HD disks that have AACS copy protection (most HD-DVD and BR).

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post #7 of 8247 Old 12-22-2006, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner9 View Post

Sorry if this is a dumb question but do you need an HDCP compliant video card to use this software at 720p, 1080i or 1080p?

It doesn't indicate specifically that you need an HDCP compliant video card, but it does mention an HDCP compliant display. I would presume though that the video card would also require HDCP compliance.

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post #8 of 8247 Old 12-22-2006, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner9 View Post

Sorry if this is a dumb question but do you need an HDCP compliant video card to use this software at 720p, 1080i or 1080p?

If you're using DVI/HDMI you will. If you're using VGA or component, you shouldn't but it's been reported WinDVD requires and HDCP card even if you're not using DVI/HDMI.

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post #9 of 8247 Old 12-22-2006, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightWatcher View Post

It doesn't indicate specifically that you need an HDCP compliant video card, but it does mention an HDCP compliant display. I would presume though that the video card would also require HDCP compliance.

Would an HDTV with an HDMI input be HDCP compliant?
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post #10 of 8247 Old 12-22-2006, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner9 View Post

Would an HDTV with an HDMI input be HDCP compliant?

Almost always, yes.

-Josh Murrah
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post #11 of 8247 Old 12-22-2006, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtwilly57 View Post

"High-definition audio technologies - Pure high-definition audio with Dolby Digital Plus, TrueHD, DTS-HD"

Can a pc with a Blu Ray or HDVD drive decode the next gen audio formats and output them in multi channel linear pcm like the current crop of standalone HD DVD/Blu Ray players?

Which sound cards support this? X Meridian, X-Fi etc, Intel HD audio?

Unfortunetly there is no output for linear multichannel PCM on the PC. You can do analog output though.

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post #12 of 8247 Old 12-22-2006, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner9 View Post

Sorry if this is a dumb question but do you need an HDCP compliant video card to use this software at 720p, 1080i or 1080p?

If you are hooking up to a digital display with a digital connection (IE HDMI or DVI) but if you can use VGA or component then no. But you do need a pretty powerfull video card, basically a 7600GT PCIexpress or higher.

- Josh
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post #13 of 8247 Old 12-22-2006, 09:33 AM
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They say it requires 7800gtx 512 mb? What the 'regular' 256 mb card wont work?
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post #14 of 8247 Old 12-22-2006, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by karos View Post

They say it requires 7800gtx 512 mb? What the 'regular' 256 mb card wont work?

I'm sure that would be fine considering that a 7600GT 256MB is sufficient.

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post #15 of 8247 Old 12-22-2006, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umdivx View Post

If you are hooking up to a digital display with a digital connection (IE HDMI or DVI) but if you can use VGA or component then no. But you do need a pretty powerfull video card, basically a 7600GT PCIexpress or higher.

If your card can play the WMV-HD stuff at 1080p then you hsould be fine, shouldn't you? (Barring any HDCP issues). I have a 7600GS and have no trouble playing any HD content.
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post #16 of 8247 Old 12-22-2006, 10:36 AM
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From what i've gathered in terms of video cards and what will and won't work.

- First off you need (for Nvidia side mind you) a PCI Express based video card with atleast 256megs of ram.

- 7600GT is the lowest end you can go for the nvidia side.

- HDCP supported video card is NOT needed if you are using VGA or component dongle out from your video card.

- HDCP supported video card IS NEEDED if you are using DVI or HDMI into your tv. also a little side note is that if you are using DVI or HDMI your display device needs to support HDCP as well

thats pretty much it in terms of video card support, now when you get into hardware like mobo, anything dual channel memory, such as Socket 939 or AM2 on the AMD side ( socket 754 won't work) then of course any of the core duo's or core 2 duo's will work on the intel side. I personally have mannaged to get a socket 478 Intel Prescott P4 3.2ghz OC'd to 3.8ghz to playback HD DVD smoothly. 512megs of ram is the min. 1gig the preferred.

Other than that if you want more info on what Nvidia says about the matter (system recommendations) check it out here: http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_pvhd_build.html

here is also an Nvidia HD DVD and Blu-ray DVD hardware check list: http://download.nvidia.com/downloads...ing_a_HDPC.pdf

enjoy,

- Josh
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post #17 of 8247 Old 12-22-2006, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner9 View Post

If your card can play the WMV-HD stuff at 1080p then you hsould be fine, shouldn't you?

Not necessarilly, WMV-HD stuff was make quite a long time ago (in HD terms) using a different/older codec than is used on HD DVD. WMV-HDs are generally using "normal" WMV9, where as HD DVD/Blu-ray use VC-1 which is WMV9 Advanced Profile, and has only been available on the PC for a couple months.

Further, WMV-HD stuff was encode primarilly for lower bitrates and easier decoding, where as VC-1 and especially H.264 on HD DVD/Blu-ray are quality focused, decoding requirements and bitrate are secondary. WMV-HD stuff (as well as most of the H.264 Quicktime stuff on the web) is usually under 10Mbps for 1080p clips, contrast that with VC-1 and H.264 which are often in the 15-20Mbps range, using more advanced (read more demanding) features.

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(Barring any HDCP issues).

That's going to be the big one, WMV-HD doesn't require HDCP.

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I have a 7600GS and have no trouble playing any HD content.

Hopefully that should be OK (being a 7 series). But just a word of warning. I've got a 6600GT and have no trouble playing any HD that can be found on broadcast or on the net. Yet it's not capable of playing HD DVD (VC-1) currently.

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post #18 of 8247 Old 12-22-2006, 10:39 AM
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Cool!

Anyone have xbox 360 hddvd on their htpc and using this already? seems like u cant download to try it out first.

wat about Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD? toslink out to xr55 can get these stuffs out from the speakers?

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Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

......is downloadable as of this morning:

Reportedly supports both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray playback in the PC.

Awaiting user reports.

Gary

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post #19 of 8247 Old 12-22-2006, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by dennlv View Post

Cool!

Anyone have xbox 360 hddvd on their htpc and using this already? seems like u cant download to try it out first.

wat about Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD? toslink out to xr55 can get these stuffs out from the speakers?

No you cannot, currently the only way to get these advanced codecs off a PC is analog out.

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post #20 of 8247 Old 12-22-2006, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

......Yet it's not capable of playing HD DVD (VC-1) currently.

You do realize that WMV-HD is infact VC-1 right? its not the problem of the codec but the bit rate.

Its the bit rate that is what is holding the older cards back from playing back smoothly, they aren't powerful enough.

WMV-HD uses a lower bit rate so that they can fit a whole movie onto a dual lay DVD. But because HD DVD's and Blu-ray DVD's are larger they are now able to run higher bit rates drastically improving the video quality, hence the HD.

This bit rate is really what is holding back a 6600GT or AGP based cards from playing back the video smoothly.

- Josh
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post #21 of 8247 Old 12-22-2006, 10:58 AM
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I bought it.
In my HTPC I have 1 BD drive and the X-box add-on.
After installed Powerdvd Ultra the program shows itself as BD version 7.2.
Only Blu-ray....
They stated Ultra plays BOTH BD and HD-DVD...
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post #22 of 8247 Old 12-22-2006, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umdivx View Post

You do realize that WMV-HD is infact VC-1 right? its not the problem of the codec but the bit rate.

OK, let me rephrase that. Most WMV-HD (that released before WMP11 and the new "VC-1" WMV decoder) is WMV9 Simple Profile, or WMV9 Main Profile. These are what we've known as WMV9 since WMV9 first appeared. This is what most WMV-HD (maybe all) are.

What's new, what HD DVD and Blu-ray use, and what is generally meant when the term VC-1 is used, is WMV9 Advanced Profile.

Advanced Profile is much more computationally demanding and may not be (perhaps isn't) supported by all cards that support accellerating WMV SP/MP.

Quote:


Its the bit rate that is what is holding the older cards back from playing back smoothly, they aren't powerful enough.

I'd say it's the profile that's doing it. VC-1 Main Profile supports up to 1080p30 @ 20Mbps, much higher than what's normally used for WMV-HD clips.

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post #23 of 8247 Old 12-22-2006, 11:27 AM
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Anyone have any luck on notebook computers? Which mobile graphics chips can playback HD-DVD (via USB XBox HD-DVD drive)?

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post #24 of 8247 Old 12-22-2006, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

OK, let me rephrase that. Most WMV-HD (that released before WMP11 and the new "VC-1" WMV decoder) is WMV9 Simple Profile, or WMV9 Main Profile. These are what we've known as WMV9 since WMV9 first appeared. This is what most WMV-HD (maybe all) are.

What's new, what HD DVD and Blu-ray use, and what is generally meant when the term VC-1 is used, is WMV9 Advanced Profile.

Advanced Profile is much more computationally demanding and may not be (perhaps isn't) supported by all cards that support accellerating WMV SP/MP.



I'd say it's the profile that's doing it. VC-1 Main Profile supports up to 1080p30 @ 20Mbps, much higher than what's normally used for WMV-HD clips.


you basically are arguing about the same thing I just said. go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VC-1#Bi...26_resolutions

it shows the bit rates between VC-1 simple profile, main profile and advanced profile. The all are still based off of the same codec structure but advanced profile (which is what is being used with HD DVD and BD DVD) is using higher bit rates, which is what I said. and that higher bit rate is the reason AGP based cards and lower end PCI express cards like a 6600GT PCIe card can't perform the duties of the higher end newer cards, ie 7600GT and higher.

WMV-HD uses VC-1 Main Profile @ high level which is around 20Mbits/s

right now HD DVD/BD DVD uses VC-1 Advanced profile @ Level 3 which is around 45 Mbits/s

which is 2.25 times higher bit rate. you do the math on that.

Like I said before the real main difference is the Bit rates, granted there still is a compression difference between each profile but the main difference that I see is the bit rates.

Also the Main profile is what WMVHD uses, so not sure what you meant by the more demanding part. I've got several WMVHD movies that are 1080p/30 20Mbit/s so and I know my AGP 6600GT handles them just fine.

But on the other hand it can't handle the 1080p/24 at 45 MBits/s.

- Josh
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post #25 of 8247 Old 12-22-2006, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capitano View Post

I bought it.
In my HTPC I have 1 BD drive and the X-box add-on.
After installed Powerdvd Ultra the program shows itself as BD version 7.2.
Only Blu-ray....
They stated Ultra plays BOTH BD and HD-DVD...

So you can't playback HD-DVD at all?

I'm expecing this software to play Blu-Ray, HD-DVD *AND* all my satellite backups PERFECTLY, for $100.

-Josh Murrah
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post #26 of 8247 Old 12-22-2006, 11:52 AM
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I wonder if Cyberlink is going to offer an upgrade path/price for current PowerDVD7 Deluxe owners? So far I see upgrades to get to the Deluxe version, but no way to get to Ultra version short of purchasing at full price. Or maybe I'm missing something?
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post #27 of 8247 Old 12-22-2006, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umdivx View Post

you basically are arguing about the same thing I just said. go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VC-1#Bi...26_resolutions

To a degree, or strait from the horse's mouth:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/win...les_and_Levels

Quote:


it shows the bit rates between VC-1 simple profile, main profile and advanced profile. The all are still based off of the same codec structure but advanced profile (which is what is being used with HD DVD and BD DVD) is using higher bit rates, which is what I said.

The same could be said of MPEG-4, you could say the AVC is the same codec as ASP, but the bit rates are different.

However that wouldn't come close to telling the whole story. Same is true of VC-1 SP/MP vs AP.

Quote:


and that higher bit rate is the reason AGP based cards and lower end PCI express cards like a 6600GT PCIe card can't perform the duties of the higher end newer cards, ie 7600GT and higher.

AP is more than just support for higher bitrates, a lot more. Just look at the discussions about VC1 AP when MS finally publicly released the AP codec. You can get the same quality at significantly lower bitrates with VC-1 AP, than with SP or MP.

While the VC-1 spec may encompass all three levels, there's a lot more than bitrate that distinguishes them.

Quote:


WMV-HD uses VC-1 Main Profile @ high level which is around 20Mbits/s

But most WMV-HD is <= 10Mbps.

Quote:


right now HD DVD/BD DVD uses VC-1 Advanced profile @ Level 3 which is around 45 Mbits/s

And most HD DVDs are well under 20Mbps.

Quote:


which is 2.25 times higher bit rate. you do the math on that.

More like a 50% maximum (probably less) real difference in bitrate. Besides insiders have reported recent VC-1 titles have been in the 12Mbps range.

Quote:


Like I said before the real main difference is the Bit rates, granted there still is a compression difference between each profile but the main difference that I see is the bit rates.

The real difference is not the bitrates, it's the profile. Just like MPEG-4 AVC is much different than MPEG-4 ASP, VC-1 AP is much different than VC-1 MP.

Quote:


Also the Main profile is what WMVHD uses, so not sure what you meant by the more demanding part.

VC-1 AP is much more computationally intensive (and also more efficient and higher quality) than VC-1 MP.

Quote:


I've got several WMVHD movies that are 1080p/30 20Mbit/s so and I know my AGP 6600GT handles them just fine.

And yet an PCIe 6600GT can't accellerate <20Mbps VC-1 AP.

Quote:


But on the other hand it can't handle the 1080p/24 at 45 MBits/s.

Where are you getting 45Mbps VC-1 AP clips? HD DVD is nominally <20 if not <15Mbps. Just because the profile allows 45Mbps does not mean it's utilized.

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post #28 of 8247 Old 12-22-2006, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capitano View Post

I bought it.
In my HTPC I have 1 BD drive and the X-box add-on.
After installed Powerdvd Ultra the program shows itself as BD version 7.2.
Only Blu-ray....
They stated Ultra plays BOTH BD and HD-DVD...

Did you uninstall any old version of powerdvd before installing the new one?
You might have to install it twice, once with the hddvd drive only hooked up and once with the BD drive.
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post #29 of 8247 Old 12-22-2006, 12:13 PM
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Can anybody confirm if PDVD Ultra will do vertical stretch of an HD DVD?

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #30 of 8247 Old 12-22-2006, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post


Where are you getting 45Mbps VC-1 AP clips? HD DVD is nominally <20 if not <15Mbps. Just because the profile allows 45Mbps does not mean it's utilized.

There are a couple test patter/ test videos out there that some folks have put together, my system (AMD 64 X2 4400+, 2gigs of ram, 7900GT PCIexpress) chugs on those.

- Josh
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