ATI DVI-To-Component Adapter Technical Question - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 29 Old 01-19-2007, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
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OK,

I have a HTPC using ATI 9600XT AGP board driving a Sony VPLHS20 PJ thru DVI. I also have a Gefen 1:2 DVI splitter/hub to drive the 40ft+ cable length cleanly. The added advantage I have with this hub is I use the second output to loop back to a FP Monitor on top of my HTPC for debug. The native res of the PJ and FP are the same so I get to see what is going on with the PJ 1:1.

Anyway, I'm looking to change my config to run the output of the HTPC into a Component Switch. This will allow me to drive many 16:9 LCD TVs in my house...as well as the PJ. I have the ATI DVI-to-HDTV adapter but my question is.....can I put this on the output of my Gefen Hub DVI port ? I've enabled the 720P drivers (Cat6.12) and my idea is to run DVI cable from the 9600XT to the hub......then output #1 has the Adapter on it and component cable plugged in going to switch....hub output #2 would be DVI cable to FP Mon. My concern is that this adapter is not doing a D/A conversion but instead using analog from the DVI ? If so, I assume the component would still work but not the DVI back to the FP monitor ? What is this adapter really doing ? Also, if it is analog from 9600XT DVI would this pass through and the FP mon see anyway ?

Here is my hub: http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=2987

Thanks.
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post #2 of 29 Old 01-19-2007, 12:16 PM
 
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What is this adapter really doing

It adapts the DVI connector to RCA's.
There is no format conversion within the adaptor, the video card must be able to output component video, on the analog pins in the DVI connector.
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post #3 of 29 Old 01-19-2007, 12:28 PM
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Maybe the following link will be of help. I am quite sure that the adapater designed specifically for designated ATI cards with YPrPb component support will work with your DVI interface switch since to do so the switch would have to have DVI-Component transcoders built in.

http://www.cs1.net/cables/dvi_hdmi_a..._explained.htm
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post #4 of 29 Old 01-19-2007, 12:31 PM
 
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I am quite sure that the adapater designed specifically for designated ATI cards with YPrPb component support will work with your DVI interface switch

Perhaps you should read the link you posted.
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post #5 of 29 Old 01-19-2007, 01:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Targus View Post

It adapts the DVI connector to RCA's.
There is no format conversion within the adaptor, the video card must be able to output component video, on the analog pins in the DVI connector.

My gfx card is a ATI 9600XT which this adapter says it supports. Also, I have ATI Catalyst Driver & Control Center installed and I have enabled the 720P driver which I assume outputs the timings. My question is how do you enable and analog output from the DVI Gfx output or does this just happen automatically when it sees the adapter on bootup ? I was hoping the adapter took the digital DVI-D signal and converted to analog....but if it is just taking an already 720P analog timed signal which just is on the analog pins of the DVI-I connector then I need to know. If so, see below..................

I found out my Gefen Hub (not one in link) does allow for analog thru DVI...basically DVI-A support. So, assuming output from the PC is analog timed in 720P thru Cat Driver can I do the below ?

9600XT (DVI Port)==(DVI-I Cable)=>HUB

then.................

1:2 HUB
DVI Output #1 ==>DVI/YPbPr Adapter==(component cable)=>Switch
DVI Output #2 ==>DVI-A to DSub15 VGA cable==>FP Mon VGA DSub Port

Thanks.
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post #6 of 29 Old 01-20-2007, 08:06 AM
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A DVI-A cable to Dsub15 would only work if your card is outputing RGB component (and according to Targus it is not) which is a subset of the VGA interface instead of YPrPb component normally used by HDTVs.
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post #7 of 29 Old 01-20-2007, 11:54 AM - Thread Starter
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So, I got my DVI on my PC to output analog RGB. ATI has an adapter I had which is DVI-I to RGB D-Sub. I'm now about to run a DVI-I cable from my PC to my Hub that I did find the documentation on and says it will carry analog over DVI. My plan is to use/move the ATI DVI-RGB adapter on output one to my FP Mon and the other ATI DVI/Component on output #2. My theory is now that analog RGB is going to the hub the two convertors (DVI to RGB is just a physical wiring thing) and the DVI-Component is timing and see if it works. I can run 720P timings from my CAT drivers so if this works I can run the timings needed for the PJ.
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post #8 of 29 Old 01-20-2007, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Thought....instead of hub if I use one of these splitters........does the ATI Radeon 9600XT output DVI-D and DVI-A signals at the same time so this splitter would have both active ?

http://www3.shopping.com/xPO-Chip-PC...VI-D-AND-DVI-A
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post #9 of 29 Old 01-20-2007, 02:15 PM
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The DVI-I to YPrPb component dongle is also just a physical wiring thing just like the DVI-RGB component Dongle is in, fact they are probably the same dongle. The issues is what protocol does the Integrated DVI-I connector support on the 4 analog pins YPrPB or RGB component and this is determined by the graphics card manufacturer. Yes it is possible to have the separate analog and DVI interfaces on the adapter connected and active to two different displays one analog and on digital at the same time, however I don't know where you will get a dongle that will separate the intefaces apart so yu can connect both a DVI-D cable and a component (3 wire RCA) cable.
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post #10 of 29 Old 01-20-2007, 04:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

The DVI-I to YPrPb component dongle is also just a physical wiring thing just like the DVI-RGB component Dongle is in, fact they are probably the same dongle. The issues is what protocol does the Integrated DVI-I connector support on the 4 analog pins YPrPB or RGB component and this is determined by the graphics card manufacturer. Yes it is possible to have the separate analog and DVI interfaces on the adapter connected and active to two different displays one analog and on digital at the same time, however I don't know where you will get a dongle that will separate the intefaces apart so yu can connect both a DVI-D cable and a component (3 wire RCA) cable.

How about this........I scrap the DVI-I hub and just do this................

ATI 9600XT card DVI-I port connected to ATI's DVI-I to 15-pin RGB convertor.
http://shop.ati.com/product.asp?sku=2538009
I know this sends out analog because I plugged a standard RGB cable in to it an my FP Mon and worked fine.

So, now I add a simple RGB 15pin Y splitter to the above and put the ATI RGB-to-YPbPr adapter
http://www.svideo.com/hdtvr8500.html
on one (this goes to my PJ) and standard RGB-to-RGB cable on the other which goes to my FP Mon.

What do you think ?
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post #11 of 29 Old 01-21-2007, 10:35 AM
 
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So, now I add a simple RGB 15pin Y splitter to the above and put the ATI RGB-to-YPbPr adapter

As mentioned, the adaptors are just pin convertors, they dont' actually transcode RGB to component.
Also, you can't passively "split" a video signal.

So, no and no.
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post #12 of 29 Old 01-21-2007, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Targus View Post

As mentioned, the adaptors are just pin convertors, they dont' actually transcode RGB to component.
Also, you can't passively "split" a video signal.

So, no and no.

Well it seems to work......the DVI-to-RGB gives me a analog signal I see on my FP Mon on RGB port. Also, the DVI-to-Component also gives me a analog signal I see on my PJ (although overscanned which I can fix in PowerStrip). The issue is these attempts/successes are single point-to-point efforts.....not split.

So, to your comment on "no passive video splitting" then why are there the passive VGA splitter cables that say to drive two monitors from one VGA port ? See this: http://www.pcconnection.com/ProductD...ourceID=k40132

If not then how about using this: http://www.trianglecables.com/1pcto2monvga.html

Lastly, since the RGB-to-Component or DVI-to-Component is just a physical wiring convertor (and assuming and can get a Y active or passive to work) would putting this on one port going to component of a display and just a standard RGB-RGB Dsub cable to FP Mon work ? I asume there is no feedback since this is just a physical connection.

Thanks.
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post #13 of 29 Old 01-21-2007, 02:17 PM
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Some peoople have had sucess with passive VGA and component splitters. I have installed VGA splitters in several conference/training rooms without any problems. However, many others have had trouble since the resulting impedence of the two connections could not be handled by the source and splitters that amplified and isolated the outgoing signal had to be installed.
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post #14 of 29 Old 01-21-2007, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

Some peoople have had sucess with passive VGA and component splitters. I have installed VGA splitters in several conference/training rooms without any problems. However, many others have had trouble since the resulting impedence of the two connections could not be handled by the source and splitters that amplified and isolated the outgoing signal had to be installed.

I have used a passive splitter on the VGA output on a Radeon 9600 card and it
worked just fine, I could not see any degradation in PQ as a result of slitting the
signal.

wb
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post #15 of 29 Old 01-21-2007, 03:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wbrack View Post

I have used a passive splitter on the VGA output on a Radeon 9600 card and it
worked just fine, I could not see any degradation in PQ as a result of slitting the
signal.

wb

Cool...any chance you used RGB-To-Component convertor on one of the two outputs ?
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post #16 of 29 Old 01-21-2007, 03:59 PM
 
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Lastly, since the RGB-to-Component or DVI-to-Component is just a physical wiring convertor (and assuming and can get a Y active or passive to work) would putting this on one port going to component of a display and just a standard RGB-RGB Dsub cable to FP Mon work ? I asume there is no feedback since this is just a physical connection

If I understand you correctely, you want to split the VGA output, connect one side to a VGA monitor, and the other side to a component input.?
You need to transcode the VGA to component for this to work.
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post #17 of 29 Old 01-21-2007, 04:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Targus View Post

If I understand you correctely, you want to split the VGA output, connect one side to a VGA monitor, and the other side to a component input.?
You need to transcode the VGA to component for this to work.

Targus

OK.....so this is how/where you lose me. This works already with my DVI-To-Component Convertor (http://shop.ati.com/product.asp?sku=2537967) which you and others have said is nothing more than a physical wiring mapping....not a transcoding. I think this URL help alot in showing the C1 thru C4 connections for R,G,B,Sync,Ground (http://support.ati.com/ics/support/d...asp?deptID=894). I DO already have my ATI Cat Drivers set for 720P timings. It appears all that is happening is the convertor is remapping the analog pins to different physical connection. I do get alot of overscan on the TV image but I can adjust this later with customized 720P driver in PowerStrip.

Thus, if this works....which it does....why could I not introduce a splitter before this "type" scenario to drive my FDP Mon with analog RGB and the other output with the Component convertor ? This time I will use this convertor since it is RGB: http://shop.ati.com/product.asp?sku=2537967

************************************************************ ****************************
Lastly, does anyone know if this ATI DVI-A to RGB adapter is bi-directional ? http://shop.ati.com/product.asp?sku=2538009 I assume like others it is a physical connection/wiring device but was wondering. Granted the connectors are male (DVI-I) and female (RGB) so they aren't really oriented for RGB to DVI-A but this could be overcome with gender changer. Also, I found this one: http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=2333 which appears to be oriented correctly.
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post #18 of 29 Old 01-21-2007, 10:23 PM
 
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When you plug the DVi to component adaptor into the card, it signals the card to output component video.
When you plug the DVI to RGB (VGA) adaptor into the card, it signals the card to output RGBHV (VGA) .
If you split the VGA output, 'll get two VGA outputs (RGBHV), the adaptor doesn't convert this to component.
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post #19 of 29 Old 01-22-2007, 03:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Targus View Post

When you plug the DVi to component adaptor into the card, it signals the card to output component video.
When you plug the DVI to RGB (VGA) adaptor into the card, it signals the card to output RGBHV (VGA) .
If you split the VGA output, 'll get two VGA outputs (RGBHV), the adaptor doesn't convert this to component.

Oh....OK. So, if I want to have component to one source and VGA to another how about this.........
I use from the 9600XT's VGA port this Y splitter http://www.pcconnection.com/ProductD...ourceID=k40132
then of one of the splits use this transcoder http://www.digitalconnection.com/pro...video/9a60.asp and off the other just RGB to FP Mon ?

I also make sure I have my ATI driver set to 720P (1280x720 60Hz) then go back and use PowerStrip to play with the timings to reduce overscan.

What do you think ? Thanks for all the help.
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post #20 of 29 Old 01-22-2007, 06:25 AM
 
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The transcoder will work.

The passive splitter will result in reduced amplitude video signals at each destination.
Use a distribution amp to do this properly.
Cideo transmission lines require the source and load termination to be matched. When you put two loads in parallel, like you are with the passive splitter, the resulting load resistance drops to 37.5 Ohms, resulting in more of the signal being dropped across the source resistor, and a lower then spec amplitude at the loads.
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post #21 of 29 Old 01-22-2007, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Targus View Post

The transcoder will work.

The passive splitter will result in reduced amplitude video signals at each destination.
Use a distribution amp to do this properly.
Cideo transmission lines require the source and load termination to be matched. When you put two loads in parallel, like you are with the passive splitter, the resulting load resistance drops to 37.5 Ohms, resulting in more of the signal being dropped across the source resistor, and a lower then spec amplitude at the loads.

Funny......just had the same conversation with a local tech guy at DVIGear. Agree.

SO...............how does this sound for two avenues. Now in my setup the reason I'm trying to split is one feed is going component to a 8x4 Matrix Switch (Video Storm CRM84: http://www.video-storm.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CRM84). to TVs/PJ in the house...other is just a loop back to the FP Monitor sitting on the HTPC. This FP Mon is only used for debug/programming of the HTPC because it sits behind the electronics rack in a little room. So, I bring this up because the usage model is that only really one of the ouputs would be used at a time.

So,

Scenario #1
Buy a active splitter like this one ($60): http://www.nulime.com/Aten-Corp-2-Po...057-c2521.html and run from my ATI 9600XT out RGB DSub to it....then one VGA output goes to the Audio Authority Transcoder ($100)...the second VGA output to the FP Mon. Since I see overscan I'd have to use PowerStrip to adjust to get correct on my TVs/PJ and live with that result/effect on my FP Mon.

Scenario #2
I plug in a DVI-I to RGB cable to my ATI 9600XT DVI port and connect to a manual 1:2 KVM switch (e.g.: http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-B112-002.../dp/B00006B81M). Then on one (#1) of the VGA output ports I put a RGB-to-DVI convertor with the ATI DVI-To-Component Adapter attached to it....then obviously component cables to my TVs/PJ thru Matrix Switch. The second (#2) VGA output of the manual switch is just RGB DSub cable to FP mon. Thus, before I boot the machine I put the switch on one or the other. If switched to #1 the ATI DVI-A portion of the 9600XT would see the DVI-to-Component convertor and boot to Component timings (720P driver running).....if #2 is selected the 9600XT would just see standard analog RGBHV port of FP Mon running 1280x720 60Hz. The above would be cheap solution but concerned that going thru a manual switch like this would degrade anything ?

Also, if the above scenario worked during boot to FP Mon since I'm using PowerStrip I just have one custom driver for 720P altered for Overscan adjustment and another to match my 1440x960 native rez on FP Mon.

What do you think ? Am I getting warm ?

Thanks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

UPDATE: Well I've been doing some reading and as I expected the manual cheapy switches are just that...cheap in quality. Thus, I do like the idea of Scenario #2 with switched single feed so if you agree with the above do you have a recommendation on a good 1:2 VGA SWITCH...no Splitter. This would have to allow the ATI 9600XT card to see the DVI-To-Component Adapter hanging off one of the ports during boot as if it was connected directly to the card in order as you said for it to generate component signals.
What about this: http://www.hallresearch.com/products...s/vga/vs-2.htm
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post #22 of 29 Old 01-22-2007, 08:19 PM
 
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Quote:


Then on one (#1) of the VGA output ports I put a RGB-to-DVI convertor with the ATI DVI-To-Component Adapter attached to it

The DVI to component adaptor uses some of the other pins in the connector, to signal the video card to output component video. This connection is lost, once a DVI to VGA adaptor is used, so that won't work. The component adaptor has to be connected directly to the card.

I'm using a cheap Radeon dual head card, one output gets converted to component, with an outboard transcoder, the other goes to a monitor.
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post #23 of 29 Old 01-23-2007, 04:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Targus View Post

The DVI to component adaptor uses some of the other pins in the connector, to signal the video card to output component video. This connection is lost, once a DVI to VGA adaptor is used, so that won't work. The component adaptor has to be connected directly to the card.

Boy I'm glad I asked then....so Scenario #1 is the solution based on this. So my plan would be to use VGA DSub cable from 9600XT Radeon VGA port to this Aten 2 port VGA Video Splitter/Booster VS92A Switch (http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/def...spx?EDC=370556)...then one output to the Audio Authority Component Transcoder (https://www.audioauthority.com/indexh.php) then component to my matrix switch. The other output goes RGB cable to my FP Mon.

Is this OK ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Targus View Post

I'm using a cheap Radeon dual head card, one output gets converted to component, with an outboard transcoder, the other goes to a monitor.

Well this would be the easiest solution for me too........DVI-To-Component Adapter on DVI port, RGB cable out RGB on RGB port to FP Mon. The problem I had with this was that the comment from ATI on the below link..."Component Output using the HDTV Video Component Video Adapter is a single display feature and will not work simultaneously with TV Output or with a standard monitor".

http://support.ati.com/ics/support/d...asp?deptID=894

How did you get to work ?
Which card are you using ?
I don't think mine is dual "head" card but it has two connectors (VGA/DVI)...not sure the real difference. I know this card can do Clone Mode but I've never tried it. Any help in stepping me through this would be greatly appreciated. The above will cost some $$$ so if I could accomplish this way it would simplify things too.

ATI 9600XT Info: http://www.sudhian.com/index.php?/articles/show/446
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post #24 of 29 Old 01-23-2007, 03:26 PM
 
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I'll have to check the model number of the video card, it's either by Power colour or Saphire...cheap, $30.00-40.00.

There are VGA to component transcoders available, with VGA passthroughs...that would eliminate your need for the VGA distribution amp.
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post #25 of 29 Old 01-23-2007, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Targus View Post

I'll have to check the model number of the video card, it's either by Power colour or Saphire...cheap, $30.00-40.00.

There are VGA to component transcoders available, with VGA passthroughs...that would eliminate your need for the VGA distribution amp.

OK....let me know what your solution/suggestions are and I'll wait to purchase. Again....all of this thread I'm just trying to achieve Component out to my Switch that sends to TVs and other output back to my FP Monitor. Having a 9600XT (now ~ $55) which is dual head I guess I'm missing how another cheap Radeon card can support both the Component Adapter (on DVI output) and VGA out on the other connector at same time ? I see ATI has higher end very expensive cards with "dual" integrated video controllers....but it would be cheaper for me to buy the splitter and transcoder and use current 9600XT. Anyway, looking forward to your feedback.

FYI...my plan is to tweek the ATI 1280x720 60Hz driver with PowerStrip to reduce overscan....when I am using the FP Mon for debug/programming/etc. of the HTPC I'll have a shortcut to the Native 1440x960 60Hz driver.

Thanks !
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post #26 of 29 Old 01-26-2007, 04:30 PM
 
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How about a cheap PCI video card, just for the VGA monitor.
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post #27 of 29 Old 01-26-2007, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Targus View Post

How about a cheap PCI video card, just for the VGA monitor.

I went ahead and ordered the active splitter and the VGA-To-Component transcoder. I'll let you know how it goes....got them both on eBay for good deal...about $55 total.

http://www.provantage.com/tripp-lite...r~7TRPA1C6.htm
http://www.cs1.net/cables/products/a...y/AAC_9A60.htm
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post #28 of 29 Old 01-26-2007, 07:24 PM
 
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That's the most flexible solution and you got a good deal.
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post #29 of 29 Old 01-27-2007, 06:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Targus View Post

That's the most flexible solution and you got a good deal.

Thanks for all the help !!!
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