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post #811 of 2138 Old 04-08-2007, 05:25 PM
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Following dbossa's thread on enableing the enhancements tab, I was finaly able to get it to show up. But.... where do I go in vista to set the delay times for each speaker? Optimally I'd like to set the exact distance of each speaker to my listening position as my front left speaker is 2' farther away than my front right speaker, and the difference is quite noticable.

Still troubleshooting the 'noise' hope to find a solution sometime tonight.

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post #812 of 2138 Old 04-08-2007, 06:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I was wondering if it may be a ground loop issue. Just wasn't sure though considering his configuration. Learn something new everyday....
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post #813 of 2138 Old 04-08-2007, 07:07 PM
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Regarding the noise issue, I have found that the interconnects used to conect the sound card to the amp are usually the culprit.

Try routing the cables so that the don't go near any other cables (especially power cables). Even if it is impractical to leave the cables that way, try it to see if it reduces the noise.

It did in my case - I had the amps and cables in front of the TV, and there was o hiss. Put them back behind the tv and there is a slight hum.
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post #814 of 2138 Old 04-08-2007, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamhost View Post

Following dbossa's thread on enableing the enhancements tab, I was finaly able to get it to show up. But.... where do I go in vista to set the delay times for each speaker? Optimally I'd like to set the exact distance of each speaker to my listening position as my front left speaker is 2' farther away than my front right speaker, and the difference is quite noticable.

Still troubleshooting the 'noise' hope to find a solution sometime tonight.

The absolute best way to do this is to get a mic and do the room correction setup. Select the mode where you specify you dont have an accurate mic and it will just set the delays properly. The delay settings are very accurate and should really help the positioning with multichannel sources.
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post #815 of 2138 Old 04-08-2007, 09:15 PM
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Quick question guys: In Vista, do you have it set so that Vista upsamples everything to 24-bit 192kHz? Or, are you having better audio results at lower settings?
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post #816 of 2138 Old 04-09-2007, 06:08 AM
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If it's a ground loop, the easiest way to isolate t would be to get some of those 3 prong to 2 prong outlet adapters to check and see if it eliminates the problem. Obviously the ground is there for a reason so this would be for testing purposes only......
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post #817 of 2138 Old 04-09-2007, 06:16 AM
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Does anyone have a link on the proper way to setup a Home theater using a DB meter to measure each channel.
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post #818 of 2138 Old 04-09-2007, 06:32 AM
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Ground loops ALWAYS involve 60 Hz hum (50 Hz overseas).... if the problem is not HUMMMMMM, then forget the ground loop....


Jim White
St. Petersburg, FL
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post #819 of 2138 Old 04-09-2007, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmzip View Post

Does anyone have a link on the proper way to setup a Home theater using a DB meter to measure each channel.

It's pretty straightforward. Usually your receiver should be capable of outputting test tones on each speaker. If it doesn't, there are plenty of audio CDs and tools that can be downloaded from the Internet that can do it. Then, simply sit in your listening position and play a tone from your left front speaker. Then see what reading you get on your DB meter. Then do the same for the other speakers. If you get 75db on your left front speaker and get 80db on your center speaker then you'll know that your center speaker is too loud and you need to lower the volume for that speaker only. Once you do all the speakers that way, you're done!
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post #820 of 2138 Old 04-09-2007, 11:16 AM
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Thanks but I was wondering if there is a certain db level you should be tuning it to, say for example 75db. I assume there is a level that matches what the movies should be listened to. Obviously preferences will differ, but I thought I read about a certain starting point to begin dailing it in.
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post #821 of 2138 Old 04-09-2007, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmzip View Post

Thanks but I was wondering if there is a certain db level you should be tuning it to, say for example 75db. I assume there is a level that matches what the movies should be listened to. Obviously preferences will differ, but I thought I read about a certain starting point to begin dailing it in.

If you using AVIA, they use 85db as the calibration level.

Also, fmzip, if using avia and the flexbass option in the drivers, can you test this for me, i'll repost it:
Quote:


while running AVIA calibration dvd I noticed something weird w/ the analog out and bass management of the card (all speakers set to small, 100hz crossover). When AVIA reaches the "Low Frequency Pink Noise 5ch. Pan" test (where it passes low frequency through each of your 5 speakers to test if the crossover is working correctly and passing the low frequency to your sub), the sub drops the tone/drops in level every time it reaches the front right speaker or the left surround speaker. I tried switching the cables in the back to see if it followed the speakers, but it doesn't follow the speaker, it still dropped the tone when it reached right front and left surround on AVIA. Note that these tests passed perfectly with both cards when using optical out, as the receiver was handling the bass management. So something with the bass management is off with the drivers. I also did not have this problem with analog out and the bluegears card.

if your using vista and vista's built in bass management instead of flexbass, can you post your results also.


thanks!
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post #822 of 2138 Old 04-09-2007, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbossa View Post

Quick question guys: In Vista, do you have it set so that Vista upsamples everything to 24-bit 192kHz? Or, are you having better audio results at lower settings?

Anyone?
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post #823 of 2138 Old 04-09-2007, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by JonDeutsch View Post

Does anyone have the XM working well with Vista Media Center (VMC)?

When I enable the card with my VMC box (powerful: E6600/2GB) whenever I do more than one thing at a time with VMC, the sound starts breaking up and crackling. Almost like it can't keep up.

I have no other applications running - I'm using VMC full-screen as my primary interface for my home theater.

I've been in touch with Auzen support, and they're pretty awful. No help at all.

Any info appreciated!
Thanks,

Bump? Does anyone use their X-M with Vista Media Center?
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post #824 of 2138 Old 04-09-2007, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVOpus View Post

The absolute best way to do this is to get a mic and do the room correction setup. Select the mode where you specify you dont have an accurate mic and it will just set the delays properly. The delay settings are very accurate and should really help the positioning with multichannel sources.

Figured things out... had to bring in my soundboard to use through line-in.

All I can say is WOOOOW!, what a difference this made. I literally jumped up to make sure that all the other speakers were not being used when listening to 2ch music. My better half was so impressed that I had to unplug the rear and center speakers just to prove to her that they were indeed not on. My soundstage is back, bigger and better than it ever was before. Still have the 'noise' or 'raised blacklevel' to deal with, but other than that, this card is downright amazing in my setup.

Now that I have the soundboard and mic up in the room, figured I'd try to do some sweeps to test how well my acoustic treatments are working. Is there a simple to use demo available that anyone could suggest? I'd really like to see what still needs to be improved in the room.

My 'theater for 2' mini setup
e6600 oc'd to 3.6
nvidia 680i
8800gts sli
x-meridian (modded opamps, cap bypass)
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post #825 of 2138 Old 04-09-2007, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbossa View Post

Quick question guys: In Vista, do you have it set so that Vista upsamples everything to 24-bit 192kHz? Or, are you having better audio results at lower settings?

I have mine set to 24-bit 44100, seems to be the best to me. The again I have a slight headcold today so ears are a bit clogged up. Haven't tried 192khz since it was reported to not sound as good on these threads. I had a hard time telling the difference back then, but that was before treatments etc.

My 'theater for 2' mini setup
e6600 oc'd to 3.6
nvidia 680i
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post #826 of 2138 Old 04-09-2007, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonDeutsch View Post

Bump? Does anyone use their X-M with Vista Media Center?

Yes, I purchased the xm exclusively for vmc. The audio is better than any setup I have had prior. Still struggling with movies though as I HATE media player for dvd's, and for hd I still have some issues with powerdvd on the pic quality side of it. Dolby-hd audio sounds absolutely amazing though! way better than my old setup using digital vs. analog.

My 'theater for 2' mini setup
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nvidia 680i
8800gts sli
x-meridian (modded opamps, cap bypass)
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post #827 of 2138 Old 04-09-2007, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamhost View Post

Figured things out... had to bring in my soundboard to use through line-in.

All I can say is WOOOOW!, what a difference this made. I literally jumped up to make sure that all the other speakers were not being used when listening to 2ch music. My better half was so impressed that I had to unplug the rear and center speakers just to prove to her that they were indeed not on. My soundstage is back, bigger and better than it ever was before. Still have the 'noise' or 'raised blacklevel' to deal with, but other than that, this card is downright amazing in my setup.

Now that I have the soundboard and mic up in the room, figured I'd try to do some sweeps to test how well my acoustic treatments are working. Is there a simple to use demo available that anyone could suggest? I'd really like to see what still needs to be improved in the room.

Awesome dreamhost. I'm glad to hear you are getting good results. Did you use a high quality mic or do the low quality mic setup (delays and amplitude)?
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post #828 of 2138 Old 04-09-2007, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by AVOpus View Post

Awesome dreamhost. I'm glad to hear you are getting good results. Did you use a high quality mic or do the low quality mic setup (delays and amplitude)?

I tried high qualty a number of times but it kept erroring out. No idea why as the mic I was using is about as good as they get, prosumer level. I got the delays and amplitude with the non high quality mic though. Only thing I wish is that we could go in and manually make adjustments after it's done. Spose ms didn't think of that, or figured it would create to many questions.

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post #829 of 2138 Old 04-09-2007, 04:08 PM - Thread Starter
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@Dbossa, I use KM Player for my TV, Movies files and even DVD. It has alot of files and config settings. Once it's set up though it's pretty good. I have also used it under Vista 32.
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post #830 of 2138 Old 04-09-2007, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamhost View Post

Yes, I purchased the xm exclusively for vmc. The audio is better than any setup I have had prior. Still struggling with movies though as I HATE media player for dvd's, and for hd I still have some issues with powerdvd on the pic quality side of it. Dolby-hd audio sounds absolutely amazing though! way better than my old setup using digital vs. analog.

OK, so you're using the beta drivers with the X-M with VMC? Do you ever experience a crackling sound when, say, playing back a TV show and then breaking out to another menu area (say, searching album art while listening to the TV show)?

When I do more than 1 thing at a time (in VMC w/X-M) I start getting a crackling sound as if the driver just can't keep up with the system. It appears to correlate with how much "effort" the PC is putting into things.

I would otherwise blame the PC, but it's a very loaded PC.

Just wondering if you've ever experienced anything similar?

Any info greatly appreciated.
Thanks
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post #831 of 2138 Old 04-09-2007, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonDeutsch View Post

OK, so you're using the beta drivers with the X-M with VMC? Do you ever experience a crackling sound when, say, playing back a TV show and then breaking out to another menu area (say, searching album art while listening to the TV show)?

When I do more than 1 thing at a time (in VMC w/X-M) I start getting a crackling sound as if the driver just can't keep up with the system. It appears to correlate with how much "effort" the PC is putting into things.

I would otherwise blame the PC, but it's a very loaded PC.

Just wondering if you've ever experienced anything similar?

Any info greatly appreciated.
Thanks

I've noticed a 'crackling' sound when switching audio tracks lately. It didn't start happening until a few days ago for me. I used to get audio errors everytime I changed, but that has mysteriously gone away and now I just get the crackle. I'm in the same boat as you though with a very powerfull pc.

My 'theater for 2' mini setup
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post #832 of 2138 Old 04-09-2007, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamhost View Post

I have mine set to 24-bit 44100, seems to be the best to me. The again I have a slight headcold today so ears are a bit clogged up. Haven't tried 192khz since it was reported to not sound as good on these threads. I had a hard time telling the difference back then, but that was before treatments etc.

I read that too about the 192kHz but it sounds really good to me. I'll have to do a proper re-listen now that my card is fully modded. Are the rest of you running at 24-bit 44100kHz as well?
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post #833 of 2138 Old 04-09-2007, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by <><</strong> View Post

Second, while running AVIA calibration dvd I noticed something weird w/ the analog out and bass management of the card (all speakers set to small, 100hz crossover). When AVIA reaches the "Low Frequency Pink Noise 5ch. Pan" test (where it passes low frequency through each of your 5 speakers to test if the crossover is working correctly and passing the low frequency to your sub), the sub drops the tone/drops in level every time it reaches the front right speaker or the left surround speaker. I tried switching the cables in the back to see if it followed the speakers, but it doesn't follow the speaker, it still dropped the tone when it reached right front and left surround on AVIA. Note that these tests passed perfectly with both cards when using optical out, as the receiver was handling the bass management. So something with the bass management is off with the drivers. I also did not have this problem with analog out and the bluegears card.

Ok, so I figured out the problem does lie in the drivers. I was using powerdvd before to play the AVIA dvd, (powerdvd does not have any of its own bass management) and using the bass management of the drivers (flexbass).

I decided to try WMP11 with purevideo (which has its own internal bass management), turned off flexbass in the drivers and re-ran the tests using AVIA, and everything was fine...each speaker was passing its low frequency off to the sub w/o any drops in level or losing the tone completely....

This is a concern because my rc-mini speakers are satellite speakers and can only go down to 80hz, if the bass management isn't working right in the drivers, full frequency range is being sent to my speakers, which i believe can cause harm!

Chalk this up as another bug in the drivers!
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post #834 of 2138 Old 04-09-2007, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonDeutsch View Post

OK, so you're using the beta drivers with the X-M with VMC? Do you ever experience a crackling sound when, say, playing back a TV show and then breaking out to another menu area (say, searching album art while listening to the TV show)?

When I do more than 1 thing at a time (in VMC w/X-M) I start getting a crackling sound as if the driver just can't keep up with the system. It appears to correlate with how much "effort" the PC is putting into things.

I would otherwise blame the PC, but it's a very loaded PC.

Just wondering if you've ever experienced anything similar?

Any info greatly appreciated.
Thanks

Yep...I've experienced the same thing with a Dual core 6600 and 2 megs of 800mhz Ram......If I have Vista Media center running in a smaller window, it does not happen. I was wondering if it was video related....
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post #835 of 2138 Old 04-09-2007, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by <><</strong> View Post

If you using AVIA, they use 85db as the calibration level.

Also, fmzip, if using avia and the flexbass option in the drivers, can you test this for me, i'll repost it:


if your using vista and vista's built in bass management instead of flexbass, can you post your results also.


thanks!

I willl check it out for you......
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post #836 of 2138 Old 04-10-2007, 05:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Tell me, does it improve the sound by setting up room correction in Vista?
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post #837 of 2138 Old 04-10-2007, 10:21 AM
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Tell me, does it improve the sound by setting up room correction in Vista?

For me at least, it made a huge difference. With my poor room setup my front left speaker is almost 2' further away from me than my front right. It is also tucked into a corner where the right speaker is about 4' from the corner (door there). Before the correction vocals sounded like they were coming from the center speaker, very precise but the instruments were kind of lacking something in the background.

Now with the correction, it's like I 'stepped into the music' with it surrounding me. It was so dramatic that I seriously thought all speakers were being used, like somehow I had switched from stereo to surround. Of course I checked, and it was not the case. The vocals are not centered anymore, now it more sounds like I'm standing 15' back in a fairly large recording studio. Now if I could just get my vocals centered again, but still maintain the surround staging I'd be set. I have noticed though that my 'sweetspot' is much smaller than before, doesn't even cover the entire recliner left-right. Another thing I noticed is that my ouput levels from the xm seemed a bit lower and the sub level was much lower. In the end I set my 5800 to +3db to all speakers to counter the lower levels and put my sub at about +6db to bring back it's levels. I used the ratshack meter on specific tracks to make sure of my levels and it did show me the drop prior to boosing the amp levels.

I used a sennheizer cardoid mic, fairly decent setup, through a mackie soundboard, into the line in of the xm card. I must have done the correction at least 20x before I found a setting I preferred. Even using a mic stand, and zero noise in the room I saw huge differences in what the correction system was choosing to do. Delay's were anywhere from 16ms on one sweep to .4 on the next sweep for the exact same speaker. The correction system did keep the gain adjustments fairly close on every test though, it was just the delays that were all over the place. I know that the software is not powerful enough for multiple measurements like the 5805 does, so it seemed strange to have such a huge range. I ended up keeping the settings with fairly high delays as it sounded the 'fullest' to me.

On a side note:
the 'noise' I am getting from my speakers only happens when the receiver is set to the xm input. I can turn the amp up 100% and hear no noise on all other inputs, no source of course. I unwired the cables from the xm side, leaving the other ends in the preamp and the noise was gone, so it's definately the xm. Somehow I am picking up noise from the card/computer itself. Need to do some investigating on how to clean that up as for sure my 'blacklevel/floor' is no longer audiophile level using the xm. Don't take it as my saying it's bad, it only shows up with the receiver dial around -8 which is very high level, 0 being reference level. The computer does have 2 8800gtx cards firing down on my xm card so that could be part of it. I also have 750w ps, huge processor fan for ocing, and a ton of hard drives in there. I may try that shielded paper that I've heard talked about in this thread to see if that helps. Just need to re-read thread to find out what it is and where to purchase it. Open to any other ideas people may have.

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post #838 of 2138 Old 04-10-2007, 12:21 PM
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Finished modding the right channel....

Here is a picture showing in red which caps were removed and replaced with a jumper for all channels......

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post #839 of 2138 Old 04-10-2007, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Again, nice job. You said you work for a PCB company but the person that did that mod has some skills. Has your imaging improved. So compared to the sound of the card when you first got it to now is this mod worth it in your opinion?
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post #840 of 2138 Old 04-10-2007, 12:45 PM
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so even on vista the delay is setup as ms and not distance of each speaker from the listening position?
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