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post #361 of 828 Old 05-12-2007, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ditcho View Post

I dn't know why you guys continue to bang your heads over the most difficult and almost impossible problem - to get an HTPC to output flawless interlaced resolution. Even if you set the desktop to be 1080i, AFAIK no player can pass exactly the 1080i material without down -p and so on scaling and interlacing, effectively killing a huge amount of the resolution.


What is your solution?
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post #362 of 828 Old 05-12-2007, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Favelle View Post

Thanks for info but being from Canada, most US onlines shops dont really service up north that well, if at all. But thanks anyway

???? Who needs the US shops. I got my PASSIVE 8600GTS for $220 Cdn and I live in BC:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=845569

I get my stuff local or from NCIX.

Silent vid cards are great on paper, but after using a few I found them not the ideal for "my" HTPC builds. Yes they are silent but you really need good air flow to make them effective. In most HTPC cases, the air flow is limited due to case design/size and the desire to keep intake/exhaust fans quite has limited what a passive cooled vid card can do in my builds. Every one I used in the past always heated the inside of the HTPC up and needed more air flow from various fans and the noise was just trade off between the case fans and the passive vs active vid cards. Yes they work but usaully the passive versions cost more then the active ones. Its just comes down to a trade off, a little noise from the vid card or a little noise from the case fans. Just IMO

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post #363 of 828 Old 05-12-2007, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Tinker View Post

I get my stuff local or from NCIX.

Silent vid cards are great on paper, but after using a few I found them not the ideal for "my" HTPC builds. Yes they are silent but you really need good air flow to make them effective. ...


You're quite right - it's really common problem (and not just in HTPC cases). The way I got around it was buying a 120mm fan and rubber mounting it on top of the (previously fanless) heatsink. You can then downspeed said fan to 700/800rpm or so, at which point it's basically silent. It's still kicking out far more air then the typical useless 60mm GPU fan running at hurricane-noise speeds, so cooling is no problem either.

An even smarter way would be a case where a 120mm gpu fan blew air over the heatsink and exhausted it directly out the back, and also acted as the case's main fan exhaust. Something for the custom builder I think :-)

Anyway, I don't know why gpu makers haven't started using larger fans - for HTPC noise purposes you'll never get a 60mm to work properly, or even a 80mm. A good 92mm might work though - 120mm is ideal, but isn't the easiest to shoehorn into tight spaces.
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post #364 of 828 Old 05-12-2007, 09:56 AM
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Has anybody get hands on Club 3D 8500GT Silent graphic card? Should be hdcp compatible.
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post #365 of 828 Old 05-12-2007, 10:26 AM
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These guys are HDCP and passive:

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.p...cture=Gigabyte

In terms of LFE, size does matter!
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post #366 of 828 Old 05-12-2007, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thuppu View Post

Has anybody get hands on Club 3D 8500GT Silent graphic card? Should be hdcp compatible.

Yes I'm also interested in this. Same price where I live as the Gigabyte 8500 GT but the added bonus of 512 instead of 256 memory.

Only thing is that there's no hdcp confirmation from what I can see on the Club3D website or specs pdf? But I've seen it listed as hdcp compatible in many shops.

If someone gets this card I would like to know for sure about the hdcp support.
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post #367 of 828 Old 05-12-2007, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Powerage View Post

What is your solution?

720p
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post #368 of 828 Old 05-12-2007, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Favelle View Post

These guys are HDCP and passive:

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.p...cture=Gigabyte

Yes. I have one, they can be found cheaper than that. Pricegrabber is your friend.
Before that I had an 8800GTS. Without Hardware acceleration, it performs the same as the 8800. With hardware acceleration it is about 70% less CPU on HD mpeg4.

Also, uses 70 to 100watts less power in my HTPC.

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post #369 of 828 Old 05-12-2007, 12:42 PM
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Well I returned the XFX 8500GT and got an ASUS 8600GTS. 1080i now works with no issues. Well I guess you get what you pay for in this case. If this card works out in the next couple of days, the 8600GTS will replace the MSI 7600GT Diamond Plus (since I can't seem to get anymore of them in Canada) for my HTPC builds. Not as clean with the DVI-HDMI route compared to the straight HDMI of the MSI card but its plus's are DX10, dual linked DVI's and maybe future HD GPU accelleration in XP. Bonus its also slightly cheaper then what I was paying for the MSI Diamond Plus card a few months back and a lot cheaper then the 8800GTS 320mb cards that I have been using for pure HTPCs (over kill).

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post #370 of 828 Old 05-12-2007, 03:28 PM
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Yes. I have one, they can be found cheaper than that. Pricegrabber is your friend.

That is also in Canadian funds. Shave off about 20-25% if you are paying in US doll hairs.

In terms of LFE, size does matter!
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post #371 of 828 Old 05-12-2007, 03:53 PM
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The nVidia drivers page lists Win XP as supported for the 8500/8600 cards, but earlier in the thread someone mentions that the HD support only works in Vista. I'm thinking of upgrading one of my computer systems, but I want to be able to run XP, not Vista, because of lack of support for a device I'm using (R5000 modded Dish 211). Can anyone clarify?

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post #372 of 828 Old 05-12-2007, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

The nVidia drivers page lists Win XP as supported for the 8500/8600 cards, but earlier in the thread someone mentions that the HD support only works in Vista. I'm thinking of upgrading one of my computer systems, but I want to be able to run XP, not Vista, because of lack of support for a device I'm using (R5000 modded Dish 211). Can anyone clarify?

I think an XP driver update is expected for the new HD support. However, I see on Guru3d.com a beta driver (160.03) for XP!

http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=1633
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post #373 of 828 Old 05-12-2007, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by lobosrul View Post

I think an XP driver update is expected for the new HD support. However, I see on Guru3d.com a beta driver (160.03) for XP!

http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=1633

Great! Has anyone tried this beta driver yet? An 8600 would serve my needs perfectly, since I am not a gamer at all and an 8800 would be overkill.

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post #374 of 828 Old 05-12-2007, 05:47 PM
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just to amplify Arfster's comments..

I have the Gigabyte 8600GTS which is fanless. Yes, it works well, the GPU temperatures are quite reasonable. However, the heatsink puts out a massive amount of heat. The heat sink faces away from the CPU, and away from the exhaust fans in the case (rackmount). In order to get the heat out of the case, I'm going to waterjet a blowhole above the area where the vid card and the expansion cards go, and mount a Nexus 120 mm fan controlled with a zalman fanmate (hopefully will be inaudible). While I'm at it, I'm going to mod a hard drive enclosure that has 3 heinously loud fans, and the top of my rack enclosure to vent out heat from the receiver the same way.

one question.. what causes tearing?
i was watching Office Space with theatertek/Win XP..got some tearing when there was rapid headmovement in a vertical manner (at 1080P)

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post #375 of 828 Old 05-12-2007, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by lobosrul View Post

I think an XP driver update is expected for the new HD support. However, I see on Guru3d.com a beta driver (160.03) for XP!

http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=1633


Thanks for the link.

Can anyone confirm if this helps with VC1 / CPU Consumption & Stability under XP SP2?
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post #376 of 828 Old 05-12-2007, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by heartsurgeon View Post

one question.. what causes tearing?
i was watching Office Space with theatertek/Win XP..got some tearing when there was rapid headmovement in a vertical manner (at 1080P)

Go into the TT settings and turn on fullscreen mode, that'll get rid of it. Tearing is really common with all NVidia cards unfortunately, and this is pretty much the only solution.
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post #377 of 828 Old 05-13-2007, 02:50 AM
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Originally Posted by bobby1234 View Post

Yes I'm also interested in this. Same price where I live as the Gigabyte 8500 GT but the added bonus of 512 instead of 256 memory.

Only thing is that there's no hdcp confirmation from what I can see on the Club3D website or specs pdf? But I've seen it listed as hdcp compatible in many shops.

If someone gets this card I would like to know for sure about the hdcp support.

Crap! There was hdcp listed in the specs when I put the link. Seems that Gigabyte is the only hdcp compatible 8500GT card. Seems that I have to cancel my order on Club 3D and put a Gigabyte on order.
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post #378 of 828 Old 05-13-2007, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Powerage View Post

Can anyone confirm if this helps with VC1 / CPU Consumption & Stability under XP SP2?

I can't comment on VC1 with these drivers, but overall I do seem to be getting worse performance with them on a XP SP2 box (w/ 8600GT). It's acting like it isn't doing anything.

Using the Windows KMPlayer (not related to the KDE Linux flavor) and switching between it's internal H264 and Cyberlinks saw no difference in CPU usage. DXVA is checked and verified KMPlayer's internal was off.

Prior I was getting about 30-35% on an AMD2 3800, but now getting 45-67% with spikes up to 100% with the same source. I tried various overlay modes as well.

It's the same (albeit much lower CPU usage) with DVD content in PowerDVD.
Either with Hardware Enabled or not, the CPU usage is the same.

And yea, I could be doing something wrong here and will reload with the "old" drivers to verify.
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post #379 of 828 Old 05-13-2007, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Signal64 View Post

I can't comment on VC1 with these drivers, but overall I do seem to be getting worse performance with them on a XP SP2 box (w/ 8600GT). It's acting like it isn't doing anything.

You need to wait for the new XP drivers next month unfortunately - the current ones only hardware accelerate on Vista.
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post #380 of 828 Old 05-13-2007, 08:19 AM
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Can anybody who has the Gigabyte 8500GT tell the physical length of the card. Does my htpc case have room for it..? Is it shorter than a 7950GT? Thanks.
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post #381 of 828 Old 05-13-2007, 10:55 AM
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I think it's a bit shorter than the leadtek 7950gt I replaced.
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post #382 of 828 Old 05-13-2007, 11:48 AM
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Just installed the Gigabyte 8500GT fanless in a small HTPC case, so far so good. It replaced an EVGA 7600GT and it is a delight to lose the noise of the GPU cooling fan.

Only issue I(I think) is the airflow over the heatsink. Using Ntune utility, monitored the CPU at 31C but the GPU is running 65C when watching HD DVD content.

Would like to find out other's GPU temps are similar and should I worry about finding additional airflow.
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post #383 of 828 Old 05-13-2007, 11:50 AM
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the GPU is running 65C when watching HD DVD content.

Perfectly acceptable.
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post #384 of 828 Old 05-13-2007, 11:52 AM
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Perfectly acceptable.

I'd hope so - one of mine is the same and it actually has a fan....
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post #385 of 828 Old 05-13-2007, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ol623 View Post

I think it's a bit shorter than the leadtek 7950gt I replaced.

Ok, thanks! Should be perfect.
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post #386 of 828 Old 05-13-2007, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsandor View Post

Just installed the Gigabyte 8500GT fanless in a small HTPC case, so far so good. It replaced an EVGA 7600GT and it is a delight to lose the noise of the GPU cooling fan.

Only issue I(I think) is the airflow over the heatsink. Using Ntune utility, monitored the CPU at 31C but the GPU is running 65C when watching HD DVD content.

Would like to find out other's GPU temps are similar and should I worry about finding additional airflow.

Are you running Vista or XP? What kind of CPU do you have and do you have any CPU utilization numbers during HD DVD playback? I plan on upgrading one of my systems, but I want to stick with XP. Trying to figure out the best mobo, CPU, video card combo.

Thanks.

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post #387 of 828 Old 05-13-2007, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by arfster View Post

You need to wait for the new XP drivers next month unfortunately - the current ones only hardware accelerate on Vista.

It got lost in my reply, but I was looking at the recent May Beta driver to see what it offers.
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post #388 of 828 Old 05-13-2007, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Are you running Vista or XP? What kind of CPU do you have and do you have any CPU utilization numbers during HD DVD playback? I plan on upgrading one of my systems, but I want to stick with XP. Trying to figure out the best mobo, CPU, video card combo.

Thanks.

Thanks Arfster and Crispy for the feedback on temps. I won't worry now and I'll just leave the case as is. Very nice to have a quiet system- this one is in the master br so silence is a big factor.

Joseph- I am running XP MCE, so no acceleration for HD DVD. Using AMD Athlon XP dual core 4600 (legacy 939 socket stuff) on an Asus 6150 type MB (don't use the onboard graphics). Looking at CPU utilization it was somewhere around 50-75%. System is about a year old so probably would do things a lot differently now.

Don't know if it is placebo effect, but pictue appears to be much cleaner and pans are smoother using the 8500GT.

-Bob
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post #389 of 828 Old 05-13-2007, 04:18 PM
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Don't know if it is placebo effect, but pictue appears to be much cleaner and pans are smoother using the 8500GT.


Is this for SD-DVD or HD? Apparently, the 8500/8600 series upscale extremely well!

In terms of LFE, size does matter!
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post #390 of 828 Old 05-13-2007, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Favelle View Post

Don't know if it is placebo effect, but pictue appears to be much cleaner and pans are smoother using the 8500GT.


Is this for SD-DVD or HD? Apparently, the 8500/8600 series upscale extremely well!

I have primarily been watching HD, so my observations are probably limited. However, even the standard XP desktop looks clener. I am using it via VGA output (over DVI connector) into a 1920x1080 Sceptre display. I'll have to look closer at SD DVD (but once you get spoiled by HD.....)

-Bob
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