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post #1 of 74 Old 10-25-2001, 04:59 AM - Thread Starter
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With a new public release due out shortly and lots of problems relating to sound on the forum I thought I'd take the time to explain DScaler's support for sound both now and going forward.

the bt848 chip is very flexible in terms of what it can do for video and there is very little leeway for card hardware designers to muck about with the video end. This is why it is usually very easy to add support for new cards based on the bt8x8 chips.

For sound things get much more complicated.

The Different ways sound is supported

1) Mono sound from the tuner is passed to the bt chip. If you have a mono card then this way should work. I will try and resolve issues related to sound on mono cards.

2) NICAM Stereo (Europe) MSP Chip. These cards have an MSP chip and some support is in DScaler for these cards. I have no test setup for this but accept patches for changes to get NICAM working. I have reports that it works on some European NICAM broadcasts. I think it doesn't work on UK Nicam.

3) BTSC Stereo (US) MSP Chip. There is currently no support for these cards. After a bit of research it seems that these cards will only play stereo when in a mode that is not implemented in the bttv code that the sound support was taken from. This will be addressed in later versions. There is already a large backlog of changes required but this is on the list.

4) Other. Some hw manufacturers have used other chips and ways of supporting sound. These are not supported now and probably won't be unless someone else writes or ports the code. Patches to support specific cards will be accepted once I have implemented a new design for sound support. This should make it easier to add support for new cards.

Workarounds

The most basic workaround is not to use the onbaord tuner :)

This is one used by most of the users of DScaler and explains why sound tends to take a back seat in priority.

Sometimes running the supplied TV tuner app before or after Dscaler can help. Note that if you are using an hauppague card then Dscaler 3.1.0 will include a card type of "Standard bt848 (No init MSP)" that will not touch the MSP on startup which should make the card behave as it did in version 2.3.0.

Using the Mixer

DScaler now also supports controling the mixer and can mute lines when channels are changed or when DScaler exits.

The mixer set dialog canm be accessed from Hardware/Audio Mixer Setup.

It allows you to specify which mixer lines are to be controlled by DScaler and which ones are to be unmuted when a given input is selected.

If "Reset Mizer to Initial Settings on Exit" is selected then it returns the mixer to the state it was when Dscaler started, if off then all the mixers lines that have been selected are muted on exit.

Still got a problem

We should use this thread to collect all sound issues and to categorize peoples problems into

1) Bug I will fix now
2) Bug I will fix later
3) Bug I will never fix
4) Not a problem

John

My Company - Upsilon Software
Free Projects - DScaler & hcfr fork
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post #2 of 74 Old 10-25-2001, 08:33 AM
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This is a helpful thread, so I'm bumping it up.

Dan
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post #3 of 74 Old 10-26-2001, 05:23 AM - Thread Starter
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The STB TV cards have a different sound chip which means that they fall into category 4 in board design and that support for them will not be added by the main DScaler team. We would welcome any developers who want to add support for these cards. The code for the support of these cards is in the bttv driver but porting that code to DScaler is not trivial.

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post #4 of 74 Old 11-01-2001, 08:46 AM
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Forgive the clarification request, but I want to see if I've got this right.

I have a standard PCI WinTV card. I'm assuming it has a BTSC Stereo MSP chip. The code incorporated by dscaler for doing sound does not implement what needs to be done to enable stereo sound on this card.

The WinTV app that comes with the card knows how to make the proper calls to setup the card properly. If you run and exit some WinTV app, it will leave the card in the proper setup.

When dScaler runs, if you can convince it to leave the card alone (no init MSP), you'll get stereo sound fine.

I remember reading a thread with a complicated set of steps to get (stereo?) sound on dScaler. With the new release, is it just a matter of running WinTV2000 and then exiting it before starting dScaler (with 'no init MSP')? Or is there more to it than that?

Thanks for the clarification!

Mike
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post #5 of 74 Old 11-01-2001, 09:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Mike

I hope the workaround will work as you suggest with the new version. The init MSP is basically what broke that work around in the first place. (The reinit seems to be required for European users however)

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post #6 of 74 Old 11-02-2001, 03:23 AM
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Can you tell me what compiler you are using to build DScaler with and are there any existing compilation instructions out there? I'd like to see if I could port the code for sound on my card from the bttv driver (which works). I'm used to dealing with Makefiles and such (from Linux), and am not familiar with Windows compilers.
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post #7 of 74 Old 11-02-2001, 04:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Lou

To compile DScaler you need MS Visual Studio 6.0 with the processor pack add-on(free) which in turn requires service pack 5.

There is a readme in the DScaler directory of the source zip that describes everything you need to compile all the source.

We already have someone looking into porting the code from bttv but work will not start until we have a clean design for card support, this is a few weeks away at the moment.

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post #8 of 74 Old 11-07-2001, 04:44 AM
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Sigh, I hate asking RTFM questions like this, but I haven't been able to find a solution anywhere.

I have a Hauppauge PVR card (Philips 1216 tuner, Std Brooktree 878) and can't get any sound through Dscaler at all. All the parameters are correctly setup in the Hardware info, and I'm using the latest drivers. If I set the audio input to tuner and the MSP/Radio setting to Terrestial TV, I get hiss coming through the speakers. ANY other setting (and I think I've tried them all) produces no sound at all.

I tried using Std Brooktree 878 (No init MSP), running WinTV2000, closing that then opening DScaler. This produced exactly the same situation.

I have the audio from the PVR linked to line-in on my sound card. I set all the tabs on the mixer to 'line-in'.

Audio works fine using the WinTV2000 app, but I've run out of options for DScaler. Has anyone managed to get audio to work on this using a PVR card?
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post #9 of 74 Old 11-13-2001, 03:26 PM
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I have a Hauppauge WinTV PCI-FM (bt878). After starting up DScaler 3.1.0, sound is horrible. I have very loud noise with the selected channels sound somewhere behind it. When I set it to FM radio and then back to TV terrestrial, sound is fine, but after a short while, it suddenly drops back to the state it was in at startup. It seems to me that DScaler is resetting the sound chip from time to time or forgets about some settings.
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post #10 of 74 Old 11-13-2001, 03:33 PM
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charleski wrote:
Quote:
I have a Hauppauge PVR card (Philips 1216 tuner, Std Brooktree 878) and can't get any sound through Dscaler at all.
I'm in the same boat. Any solutions would be greatly appreciated. -Pat

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post #11 of 74 Old 11-13-2001, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by paddy
charleski wrote:I'm in the same boat. Any solutions would be greatly appreciated. -Pat
Any solution? Well how about using a VCR as the tuner and feed it to your capture card. Then use the VCR audio to feed your reciever.
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post #12 of 74 Old 11-13-2001, 07:53 PM
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John,

Thanks for the update as I've been scratching my head why the audio output with my IOMagic PCPVR and Dscaler 3.1 has always been mono. This might help explain why IOMagic always insisted the NTSC tuner on the card supports stereo.

Rick
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post #13 of 74 Old 11-13-2001, 07:56 PM
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STB Tv Tuner Pro v2.13 (no FM)

Video and Sound worked in Dscaler as long as the STB software was installed on the machine. This was great in Win98, but in WinXP the STB software will not install correctly nor will it run. So this means no sound in Dscaler.

This leads me to believe one of two things:
1. The STB software initializes the hardware at System start up, and this allows Dscaler to take advantage of the hardware at any time.
or
2. Dscaler merely calls on the vxd's, ocx's, dll's (that are present due to the STB software install) at program run. In XP these files aren't all there.

BTW other capture software runs in XP, but won't even let me select the STB card as a device - says "that device is in use...". I just wonder what driver files all these programs are looking for, or need to be already initilized in order to see the hardware.:confused:

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post #14 of 74 Old 11-13-2001, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Any solution? Well how about using a VCR as the tuner and feed it to your capture card. Then use the VCR audio to feed your reciever.
I'm already doing that! Believe it or not, I'm not that stupid! :rolleyes: I was wondering if there was an ALL HTPC solution. I don't want to have to turn On the VCR tuner, tune to the correct channel, and switch the AVreceiver function to VCR. I'd like to be able to tune the video AND AUDIO signal using the Hauppauge PVR card's tuner. I know, call me "picky" :D -Pat

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post #15 of 74 Old 11-14-2001, 04:59 AM
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I have a Pinnacle PCTV Pro card. All is working fine when I am receiving in Pal B/G, but with stations broadcasting in Pal D/K I have only noise. How I can switch DScaler to receive in Pal D/K? Thx for help.
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post #16 of 74 Old 11-14-2001, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shadowdancer
I have a Hauppauge WinTV PCI-FM (bt878). After starting up DScaler 3.1.0, sound is horrible. I have very loud noise with the selected channels sound somewhere behind it. When I set it to FM radio and then back to TV terrestrial, sound is fine, but after a short while, it suddenly drops back to the state it was in at startup. It seems to me that DScaler is resetting the sound chip from time to time or forgets about some settings.
I had this same problem - if you set the sound from stereo to mono it will work fine - but instead of the drop-outs to static, I get drop outs from 2 channels to one.

(make sure you turn off the automatic detect stereo also).

I had the best luck with the Phillips NSTM_M (Mk2) for my tuner selection. (Hauppauge 401 Bt878/US)

Chris
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post #17 of 74 Old 12-07-2001, 04:57 AM
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Yesterday I stumbled into dscaler and I was amazed !!!! its an excellent program, actually the best I've seen so far
However there is no sound no matter what I've tried

the programm states that I have no msp hw
the trick on running the original prog first doesnt work ... (am running win2000)

I have the PixelView Play TV + FM
878 chip and Philips fm 1216 tuner

any help would be appreciated
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post #18 of 74 Old 12-07-2001, 06:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Just to let you all know that the sound issues are currently being worked on by the finest DScaler minds. The way it is looking at the moment we should be able to support sound on pretty much every card with troubleshooting being easier as well hopefully.

All these changes will take a while to test and sort out but we are progressing.

I would expect some test releases fairly early in the new year.

John

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post #19 of 74 Old 12-08-2001, 01:57 AM
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after posting the last message I tried something (accidentaly?)
I have tried the atv2000 prog which is also a nice one...
when u exit the app it leaves an icon in the task bar and the prog is still active
if I launch dscaler it works with sound !!!!
not the best solution
but it will do for now
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post #20 of 74 Old 12-15-2001, 09:27 AM
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Shadowdancer
I have a Hauppauge WinTV PCI-FM (bt878). After starting up DScaler 3.1.0, sound is horrible. I have very loud noise with the selected channels sound somewhere behind it. When I set it to FM radio and then back to TV terrestrial, sound is fine, but after a short while, it suddenly drops back to the state it was in at startup. It seems to me that DScaler is resetting the sound chip from time to time or forgets about some settings.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd been having similar problems after installing DScaler 3.1.0. After fiddling with the settings I stumbled upon ones that work at least in mono for my system with no white noise in the sound

To get it working I'm using
Settings -> Audio Input = Tuner
Hardware -> MSP/Radio -> TV Terrestrial FM-mono + FM-stereo
Hardware -> MSP/Radio -> Major Carrier = PAL I
Hardware -> MSP/Radio -> Minor Carrier = PAL B/G Nicam Stereo
Hardware -> MSP/Radio -> Mono
with no Auto Stereo adjustment

I've no idea why the PAL I setting works when intuitively I should be using PAL BGH but it seems to!

Cheers
Si

My setup is
WinTV Theatre
SB Live
Athlon 700
256Mb Mem
Geforce 256 DDR
DScaler 3.1.0 (Standard BT878 Card & Philips PAL Tuner)
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post #21 of 74 Old 12-15-2001, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by JohnAd
The STB TV cards have a different sound chip which means that they fall into category 4 in board design and that support for them will not be added by the main DScaler team. We would welcome any developers who want to add support for these cards. The code for the support of these cards is in the bttv driver but porting that code to DScaler is not trivial.

John
For those in the same boat as me, you might want to check out another Bt8x8 driver being developed at http://btwincap.sourceforge.net/. I have one of these cards and with this driver now have sound udner DScaler and BorgTV with my card, under Windows XP. So far I cannot capture video AND audio, just video, and it doesn't initialize sound under Windows Media Maker.

My post on how to get sound from the STB TV+FM PCI tuner card is here.

For those with other cards that sound doesn't work in DScaler, you might still want to check out the driver, as it is the ONLY thing so far under Windows that supports the audio on my card. It is based on the bttv driver and has an advanced configuration option during install that lets you manually specify the chips on your card. I had to do this for mine, you might be able to do it for yours and get sound from DScaler. Worth a shot, especially if you DON'T have an MSP sound chip.
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post #22 of 74 Old 12-16-2001, 09:10 PM
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SIB, that configuration doesn't work for me. Could it be that my WinTV is the PVR version?
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post #23 of 74 Old 02-06-2002, 10:36 AM
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My hardware is as follows:

GeForce2 GTS
ATI TV Wonder
Turtle Beach Santa Cruz

When I use dscaler, everything works mine. The TV sound is fine, and the program is great. My problem is that when I switch to composite, the tv tuner sound is still in the background and I can't hear the composite's sound. Anyone have a solution for this?
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post #24 of 74 Old 02-26-2002, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by SiB
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Shadowdancer
I have a Hauppauge WinTV PCI-FM (bt878). After starting up DScaler 3.1.0, sound is horrible. I have very loud noise with the selected channels sound somewhere behind it. When I set it to FM radio and then back to TV terrestrial, sound is fine, but after a short while, it suddenly drops back to the state it was in at startup. It seems to me that DScaler is resetting the sound chip from time to time or forgets about some settings.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd been having similar problems after installing DScaler 3.1.0. After fiddling with the settings I stumbled upon ones that work at least in mono for my system with no white noise in the sound

To get it working I'm using
Settings -> Audio Input = Tuner
Hardware -> MSP/Radio -> TV Terrestrial FM-mono + FM-stereo
Hardware -> MSP/Radio -> Major Carrier = PAL I
Hardware -> MSP/Radio -> Minor Carrier = PAL B/G Nicam Stereo
Hardware -> MSP/Radio -> Mono
with no Auto Stereo adjustment

I've no idea why the PAL I setting works when intuitively I should be using PAL BGH but it seems to!

Cheers
Si

My setup is
WinTV Theatre
SB Live
Athlon 700
256Mb Mem
Geforce 256 DDR
DScaler 3.1.0 (Standard BT878 Card & Philips PAL Tuner)
Ok, dragging this one out the depths. Thanks SiB, worked great for me!

Any update on UK NICAM support as I'm listening in mono.

Cheers,

nutcase
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post #25 of 74 Old 03-08-2002, 01:37 PM
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Just thought I'd throw in my problem. Audio works fine with my ATI TV Wonder VE but when I close dScaler down the audio continues to play.

I've checked all my audio hardware and mixer settings and everything seems fine. I've got line in muted in my sound card app prior to starting dScaler and the mixer setup set to "Reset mixer to original settings on exit" so the audio is muted on exit but the signal is still there. Not a big problem, but there you have it.

-Rick
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post #26 of 74 Old 03-19-2002, 05:40 AM
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I have a Leadtek Winview601TV-FM (Bt848). I'm using DScaler with WinXP and I am very satisfied with the image quality - the problem is that I don't hear the sound. Luckily I found out that if I install the BorgTV program and set the TV tuner model and sound source (Line In) in its preferences I'm able to hear sound from DScaler! The only thing I have to do is to start the BorgTV, press F4, choose [again] the TV tuner model from the drop-down menu, close the program and start DScaler. Voila! :)
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post #27 of 74 Old 04-01-2002, 04:31 PM
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I have a Tuner card manufactured by STB with stereo sound, and FM tuner. The Gateway model number on the back is 6000699, it has a Bt848 ship with a TEA6300, TDA9850, and a tiny TDA1308 sound ships.

Ok, heres what you have to do:

Get the driver at http://btwincap.sourceforge.net/contact.html
Run the installer and pick STB as the card, and Phillips NTSC tuner.
Go to the advanced options and put TEA6300 and TDA9850 on. Turn the rest off. Pick your country, and install.

I know there are a lot of people with STB cards that dont work. If you dont have the card i have, its really easy to get this driver to install.

Before you put the card in your comp, write down all the chips that it uses. Look on the card, and write down the first line of all the chips.

If it has a Bt848 driver, pick STB as the card, if it has a Bt878, pick STB 2. Pick Phillips NTSC As the tuner. Now, click on advnaced and turn on all the chips that you wrote down before. If you have chips that arnt i nthe list, ignore them. Turn all the rest off, and continue with the install.

After its installed, use amcap.exe to ge the sound to init. (get that at http://btwincap.sourceforge.net/contact.html too) WHILE its open, open Dscaler (thats all i have tested) and the minimize amcap.exe. (It will basicly lock up)

Thats it!

Hope all this helps every one with STB cards (and others)

Charlie William Hayes
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post #28 of 74 Old 04-10-2002, 05:50 PM
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I just can't seem to get it right. First...the video quality of dscaler is fathoms better than ati mmc. But now to my issue. I'm trying to get video AND AUDIO from the a/v composite connectors on a camera. When I select video source as composite, no matter what I do with audio, I still get audio from the tuner. I can't seem to get the audio from the composite connector.

Specs:
DSCaler 3.1.0
ATI TV-Wonder (with lates WDM drivers)
VIA AC97 sound card

Audio from the TVW is connected via the audio out on the tv card to the line-in on the sound card.

I have set everything under mixer setup to line-in. I've tried every audio setting I can find. Still comes from the tv tuner, no matter which video source is selected.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!! TIA TIA

C
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post #29 of 74 Old 04-14-2002, 02:53 PM
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Very same problenms w/ dscaler 3.1 and TV Wonder:

MONO sound (Stereo in MMC 7.1)
TUNER sound even whe Composite is selected...
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post #30 of 74 Old 04-14-2002, 03:44 PM
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I have a Pinnacle Studio PCTV and my sound is thin and poor. I don't know if it's mono or stereo, but it just sounds bad.

Other than that it's fine, video is excellent and the audio was fine with the Pinnacle applications. But I don't use them anymore now that DScaler has entered the picture :cool:

Could it be related to the MSP-thingie?
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