Evr Is Default Renderer Anymore! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 74 Old 08-31-2007, 05:20 PM - Thread Starter
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"With recorded media, MS allows you to use the default third party filters that you tweaked just with one exception: EVR. Since its own filter, you can not change its merit value which is set to 00200000 while classical Video Renderer' 00800001. And both WMP and MCE will use the default Graph in their background; believe me. (but of course you can make your custom Graphs)
On the other hand when you put a DVD, MS will use its default filters including his EVR on those both application."


"Quote:
Originally Posted by CodeThief
So are you saying that you'll never be able to use EVR in MCE unless I play a DVD (where I don't need the HA anyhow!!? "

Untill finding a way to tweak EVR as default renderer, you won't be able.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=896920


Yes; thanks to codechief to boost me to figure out that issue.
Lets start:

Some tweaks first;

regedit:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\\Software\\Microsoft\\Windows\\CurrenentVe rsion\\Explorer\\Advanced
"SuperHidden"= (set to) 1 (you made all hidden files appear)

boot
_ _ _ _ _ _

From the Start Menu find the "Command Prompt" and right click on it. From the popup
menu select "Run as Administrator". A Command window will start.
Wriite "regedit"
Regedit popup window will open.
Go to the key
HKLM/SOFTWARE/Microsoft/Windows NT/CurrentVersion/WinLogon.
Now add (from the Edit menu) a new key.
Name this new key "SpecialAccounts".

In HKLM/SOFTWARE/Microsoft/Windows NT/CurrentVersion/WinLogon/SpecialAccounts
create a key named "UserList".

In HKLM/SOFTWARE/Microsoft/Windows NT/CurrentVersion/WinLogon/SpecialAccounts/UserList
create a new DWORD entry ;
Name this entry "Administrator" and
set the value to "1"

exit and boot
_ _ _ _ _ _ _

Open Radlight filter manager(right click on exe and"open as admin" click "direct show filters" and choose Cyberlink filters "preferred+1

boot again
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ -

Last step:

Making EVR default renderer;

First you gonna decrease the prioraty of the classical Video Renderer.
Open Radlight Filter Manager as admin and under Direct Show Filters find out Video Renderer; click on it and click "copy CLSID";
open regedit and navigate copied CLSID under PC after finding it just right click on this CLSID (it is on the left side)
go to "advanced", go to "owner", go to "administrator"and click "apply"and mark the "full control" box and "OK"

Move to the "FilterData" on the right side and click on it and change the first line(0000 line)
with this:

02 00 00 00 00 00 00 20 00 and "enter"

boot

Second you gonna make EVR default Renderer:
open Radlight Filter Manager as admin and under Direct Show Filters find out Enhanced Video Renderer; click on it and click "copy CLSID";
open regedit and navigate copied CLSID under PC after finding it just right click on this CLSID (it is on the left side)
go to "advanced", go to "owner", go to "administrator"and click "apply"and mark the "full control" box and "OK"
Second move to the "FilterData" on the right side and click on it and change the first line (0000 line)
with this:

02 00 00 00 01 00 00 80 00 and "enter"

boot.

Merit values has been changed by force; anyway enjoy with your new default EVR renderer.

GraphEdit, WMP and MCE will play even "recorded fies" on HA mode with new "default" EVR Renderer anymore.

Best!

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post #2 of 74 Old 08-31-2007, 06:06 PM
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Weird - Vista WMP always used EVR in everything for me. You can check with ffdshow:




Never used Vista MCE though. Renderer priorities are as you describe too, with EVR way down at 02
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post #3 of 74 Old 08-31-2007, 06:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Arfster, not just for me but for lot of people classical video renderer is default one.
So as to check just opening a file with GraphEdit will give the idea what these both MS applications use as renderer. So everyone can check it.
I don't think its related with decoder.
For mpeg2, MS mpeg2 decoder, Elecard mpeg2 decoder and Cyberlink Decoder works in HA mode (i forgot Pure one)
That is why we are trying to make EVR default renderer.

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post #4 of 74 Old 08-31-2007, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricabullah View Post

Arfster, not just for me but for lot of people classical video renderer is default one.
So as to check just opening a file with GraphEdit will give the idea what these both MS applications use as renderer. So everyone can check it.
I don't think its related with decoder.

Hrrrm, I've never heard of an app that doesn't have a preferred renderer - afaik Vista WMP forces the use of EVR. Graphedit will follow defaults, but that's a test utility not a media playback app.
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post #5 of 74 Old 08-31-2007, 06:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arfster View Post

Hrrrm, I've never heard of an app that doesn't have a preferred renderer - afaik Vista WMP forces the use of EVR. Graphedit will follow defaults, but that's a test utility not a media playback app.

Is this you really, or anybody else who is speaking?

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post #6 of 74 Old 08-31-2007, 07:26 PM
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Well, easy to prove: set ffdshow audio renderer uncompressed to "all supported", set it to appear in tray, and play some media in WMP11. Right-click on the icon, and you'll have your list of filters in use.

Vista is pretty different for media stuff - WMP11 is a media foundation app. There's simply no reason for it to use old directshow junk like VMR9, let alone the video renderer from however many years ago (win95?). Aside from anything else, video acceleration would be extremely tricky, and h264 would be flat out impossible even with a dxva1 codec.
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post #7 of 74 Old 08-31-2007, 07:55 PM
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Well your suggestion might help me determine what is going on in Vista MCE arfster... see if WMP is playing back DVD different form MCE

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=897447


I still cant get the picture to look as good as WMP in MCE when playing DVDs or watching live TV
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post #8 of 74 Old 09-01-2007, 04:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Arf,

Apart from why i'm not able to use EVR as default renderer under my licenced current Vista 32 without hacking registry, lets talk about these:

Quote:
Originally Posted by arfster View Post

Hrrrm, I've never heard of an app that doesn't have a preferred renderer - afaik Vista WMP forces the use of EVR. Graphedit will follow defaults, but that's a test utility not a media playback app.

It's a test utility of course that is why i'm using it to understand what filters are used by WMP and MCE.

"There are numerous issues that are corrected with EVR and it could be that WMP is using EVR or at least a different filter configuration. Graphedit is the best way to discover the default configuration that will be used whether it is working or not. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Graphics Point Engineering "

http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/Sho...46233&SiteID=1



Quote:
Originally Posted by arfster View Post

Well, easy to prove: set ffdshow audio renderer uncompressed to "all supported", set it to appear in tray, and play some media in WMP11. Right-click on the icon, and you'll have your list of filters in use.

Good trick; but if WMP is using its own preferred filters as an application, you would never change its any filter even you set its merit to PREFERRED+255?
All in my trials WMP and MCE used MS's own default filters -including EVR-just while playing DVD but used default ones (which we see on the Graph) while playing recorded media.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arfster View Post

Vista is pretty different for media stuff - WMP11 is a media foundation app. There's simply no reason for it to use old directshow junk like VMR9, let alone the video renderer from however many years ago (win95?). Aside from anything else, video acceleration would be extremely tricky, and h264 would be flat out impossible even with a dxva1 codec.

Don't ask me what api MS uses, but as you know HA is working very well even with VMR7 and VMR9 under XP:

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post #9 of 74 Old 09-01-2007, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricabullah View Post

Don't ask me what api MS uses, but as you know HA is working very well even with VMR7 and VMR9 under XP:

Sure, but that's different, because vmr9 isn't native for Vista.

Acceleration is probably the easiest way to prove things. For VMR9 acceleration dxva1 calls are translated realtime to Vista's dxva2. However, this is impossible for h264, because the translation layer doesn't support it(silly MS). Thus Vista h264 acceleration is not possible in VMR9, and since it works in WMP11 this proves it uses EVR.

Similarly, to support acceleration in EVR, decoders needs to be dxva2 compatible. Old ones like Sonic and purevideo are dxva1, and thus you get no acceleration with EVR - this is exactly what happens with Vista WMP.


As above, I've never used Vista MCE so don't know what it uses. It would be pretty odd if it used vmr9 though, and quite bizarre if it used the default video renderer.
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post #10 of 74 Old 09-01-2007, 09:59 AM - Thread Starter
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As i told before, GraphEdit shows the kitchen of WMP and MCE but if you don't belive, you can check very basically whether your CPU consumpts %70 or %7 with an h264 file.
In my case after paid 250 USD to OS what i saw on Graph as default was Video Renderer, not EVR. It was the default cause i crosschecked with CPU utilisation.(Also the merit of default Video Renderer was PREFERRED+1)
I've been able to render with EVR; after i made that registry hack.
Sure EVR is the only renderer for h264 under Vista.
Before i made the modification it was impossible for me to get HA with h264 with WMP.
But I've noticed you would never understand whether HA is activated or not when you open an mpeg2 file with Graph(or WMP/MCE) since those three renderers give the same CPU utilization.(Test file was mpeg2 1920*1088 50i-recorded broadcast-)
Whenever you check framerate, you will see WMR-i say classical- gives 25(or 30) while EVR and WMR9 are giving 50(or 60) (GE is the exception since it uses the Cyberlink's registry)
So the best way is to check with an h264 file whether EVR is working.

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post #11 of 74 Old 09-01-2007, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricabullah View Post

Before i made the modification it was impossible for me to get HA with h264 with WMP.

Now that's odd. I'm in my test install atm, which has a new Vista with only PDVD Ultra and ffdshow installed (I ghost it back to fresh/clean install every so often). WMP shows h264 acceleration there also, CPU is <1%.

FFDshow audio _always_ shows that EVR is running in WMP, but I suppose it's possible if something is badly broken/corrupted, it could drop back to vmr. It does work with directshow filters after all.


Setup: 2600XT, 7.7 official drivers, Vista business (i wonder if vista version makes a difference?).
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post #12 of 74 Old 09-01-2007, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arfster View Post

FFDshow audio _always_ shows that EVR is running in WMP, but I suppose it's possible if something is badly broken/corrupted, it could drop back to vmr. It does work with directshow filters after all.
Vista business (i wonder if vista version makes a difference?).

This is my test PC, i open it from time to time for test reasons after taking off 8600 GTS from the other computer and putting it to this one every time . (the other 2400Pro is in trash now)
So it might had been working in the beginning, who knows?
But this hack would be useful for whom wants to change the other MS filters as well.
Normally i don't use WMP or MCE but after codethief activated me i checked it out and saw EVR is not default.
OS is Home Premium.
Some other feedbacks might give an opinion to us, i hope.
BTW, can you explain how you can see the filters by ffdshow audio ; i'm not much familiar with it?

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post #13 of 74 Old 09-02-2007, 12:18 AM
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Without doing any hacks at all my media center is showing under 3% CPU utilization for H.264 files. As far as I have been told Media Center in Vista defaults to EVR despite what graphedit shows. And based on my CPU utilization it is most certainly defaulting to EVR and enabling HA. Graphedit shows system defaults but depending on the app you use for playback it can override those defaults. Such as media center and PowerDVD.

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post #14 of 74 Old 09-02-2007, 04:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archer75 View Post

Without doing any hacks at all my media center is showing under 3% CPU utilization for H.264 files. As far as I have been told Media Center in Vista defaults to EVR despite what graphedit shows. And based on my CPU utilization it is most certainly defaulting to EVR and enabling HA. Graphedit shows system defaults but depending on the app you use for playback it can override those defaults. Such as media center and PowerDVD.

Thanks archer75 for feedback!
As far as i remember your default renderer is Video Renderer like mine.
Also as i told in your thread, EVR and other MS default filters (like MS Mpeg2 decoder which is also capable of HA) are been using by default while playing DVD on MCE.(applcation uses its own filters even with lower merits.)

Since you are saying h264 is playing just with %3 CPU utilisation, sure EVR has been selected by default. But please tell me what kind of files they are. TS, recorded ones? (till now i can not see any h264 TS file thumbnail on MCE window?)

So on the other hand if you want to make EVR your default renderer and also change the merits of other MS filters follow my first post.
best!

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post #15 of 74 Old 09-02-2007, 07:15 AM
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WMP11 and mediacenter on vista x86 and x64 have always both used EVR for me on MANY different systems and installs, while graphedit always picks Video Renderer as default and I have never in my life adjusted the merit of a renderer. Are you basing this on the fact that acceleration is not working and graphedit is picking Video Renderer instead of EVR? Graphedit picking video renderer is how it has always worked for me, picking video renderer has absolutely no merit to what WMP or VMC in any situation I've come across. You do realize the cyberlink codecs pick acceleration on a per application basis and you might have it disabled for WMP right? Playing a DVD does not have much relevance to this for VMC in particular, you have to manually pick a mpeg decoder GUID in the registry for VMC which overrides the directshow merits completely and it will use that decoder for all mpeg2 sources that have compatable CLSIDs be it DVD or recorded TV or whatever.. You can manually force cyberlink codecs to use acceleration in HKLM/Software/Cyberlink/[decoder name, cl264dec or CLVSD for example]\\[app name]\\ by adding the DWORD UIUseHVA with the value of 1, or use something that lets you adjust filter property pages while in use such as ffdshow. I would say I have done at least 50 vista HTPC installs over 13 systems and have never once encountered either one not using EVR, it sounds like something may have been messed up through tweaking rather than a global problem.. Like arfster says it is very easy to see EVR is being used with ffdshow and I always check the filters in use.
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post #16 of 74 Old 09-02-2007, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricabullah View Post

Thanks archer75 for feedback!
As far as i remember your default renderer is Video Renderer like mine.
Also as i told in your thread, EVR and other MS default filters (like MS Mpeg2 decoder which is also capable of HA) are been using by default while playing DVD on MCE.(applcation uses its own filters even with lower merits.)

Since you are saying h264 is playing just with %3 CPU utilisation, sure EVR has been selected by default. But please tell me what kind of files they are. TS, recorded ones? (till now i can not see any h264 TS file thumbnail on MCE window?)

So on the other hand if you want to make EVR your default renderer and also change the merits of other MS filters follow my first post.
best!

graphedit shows video renderer by default but everyone says that media center overrides that and uses EVR and since i'm getting HA it must be true.
I don't record TV with my HTPC. But for downloaded content, h.264 and .ts files I get HA. I don't play straight DVD's on it either. All of the DVD's I play are ripped to the HTPC and I play the vob's via the mymovies plugin.

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post #17 of 74 Old 09-02-2007, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarvatt View Post

WMP11 and mediacenter on vista x86 and x64 have always both used EVR for me on MANY different systems and installs, while graphedit always picks Video Renderer as default and I have never in my life adjusted the merit of a renderer. Are you basing this on the fact that acceleration is not working and graphedit is picking Video Renderer instead of EVR? Graphedit picking video renderer is how it has always worked for me, picking video renderer has absolutely no merit to what WMP or VMC in any situation I've come across. You do realize the cyberlink codecs pick acceleration on a per application basis and you might have it disabled for WMP right?

Thanks sarvatt for the contrubution.
Hundred percent i'm sure Cyberlink filters were (and are)default (without any tweak, it is possible to change their merits by RadLight), i checked the registry as weel.
Before tweak, On graphedit i saw all Cyberlink filters as default+ VideoRenderer.(h264 recorded HD ts)
FrameRate was 25 and CPU at %70 after i opened WMP, CPU was again at the same level.
After tweak, i saw the same graph with one exception: EVR.
This time Framerate was 50 and CPU at %6 ,also WMP gave the same result.

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post #18 of 74 Old 09-02-2007, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archer75 View Post

graphedit shows video renderer by default but everyone says that media center overrides that and uses EVR and since i'm getting HA it must be true.
I don't record TV with my HTPC. But for downloaded content, h.264 and .ts files I get HA. I don't play straight DVD's on it either. All of the DVD's I play are ripped to the HTPC and I play the vob's via the mymovies plugin.

archer i really confused.
You and the others say EVR overrides VRenderer on MCE.
Then there must be a problem with me.

But on the other hand i never understand this:

Either one application with its whole addressed filters (including EVR) plays the video, or it allows you to use default filters selected by you and add EVR by itself even its not default renderer? If it is default one why we cannot see on the Graph?
V Renderer's merit is prefferred+1 which means default, if one application bypass this while playing, it should override all other default ones except its own filters. (like the one i gave its graph in your thread. MCE DVD play)

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post #19 of 74 Old 09-02-2007, 09:26 AM
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Can this be related to this problem:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=879217
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post #20 of 74 Old 09-02-2007, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickardk View Post

Can this be related to this problem:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=879217

Thanks rickardk!

You use ultimate and get HA with WMP; would you upload your Graph capture of an h264 file?

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post #21 of 74 Old 09-02-2007, 11:13 AM
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You might want to read up on Media Foundation that vista uses for playback in WMP11 and VMC, they do not use a directshow playback chain and instead use this which uses EVR and permits directshow filters to work in it. I was not referring to altering the merits anywhere in my post, and changing any cyberlink codec settings in Radlight or graphedit changes the settings *only* for that playback application (radlight or graphedit) as it stores settings on a per-app basis in the registry at the location I said. I don't know how better to explain it than what I've said, but using graphedit to justify results from a media foundation playback chain is like comparing apples to oranges. Mpeg2 in vista media center completely ignores directshow merits as well and must be changed in the registry or with an app such as this http://mediacenterexpert.blogspot.co...r-utility.html
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post #22 of 74 Old 09-02-2007, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarvatt View Post

You might want to read up on Media Foundation that vista uses for playback in WMP11 and VMC, they do not use a directshow playback chain and instead use this which uses EVR and permits directshow filters to work in it. I was not referring to altering the merits anywhere in my post, and changing any cyberlink codec settings in Radlight or graphedit changes the settings *only* for that playback application (radlight or graphedit) as it stores settings on a per-app basis in the registry at the location I said. I don't know how better to explain it than what I've said, but using graphedit to justify results from a media foundation playback chain is like comparing apples to oranges. Mpeg2 in vista media center completely ignores directshow merits as well and must be changed in the registry or with an app such as this http://mediacenterexpert.blogspot.co...r-utility.html

Thanks sarvatt for this valuable explanation.

Wiki explained very well that Media foundation; so EVR should be expected as default renderer anymore starting with Vista.

But i think it might mention MCE not WMP?

In my specific case after switching to EVR, i see exactly the same filters both in GraphEdit and WMP (via ffdshow audio) and what is interesting that i can change them by Radlight . (you say it is not possible) (maybe i forced them to work with DX instead of MF?)

For MCE the utility which you gave the link works very well just for mpeg2 and audio(except ffd audio). It changed the default MS filters with Cyberlinks i checked with DVD and saw its graph.
So for MCE as you pointed out registry tweak is an obligation but for WMP?

Another question i can not see the thumbnails of h264 ts files on MCE and can not open them?

Thanks!

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post #23 of 74 Old 09-02-2007, 02:37 PM
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Yeah FFDAudio I have to manually change the GUID for in the registry, there should be a guide how to do it in one of the stickies on here or thegreenbutton forums I think? What I meant is that changing the merits doesn't effect mpeg2 in VMC only, it still uses the merit system to pick which filter to use for other codecs and I'm sorry about wording it confusingly. Changing the filter *settings* inside radlight or graphedit will not change the settings in any other application but that one was the other point I was trying to get across. Unchecking hardware acceleration in the cyberlink codec property page in graphedit doesn't globally disable hardware acceleration because it stores the settings for every app you use, so you would have to change it in the registry or use something like ffdshow to have access to the property page in WMP or VMC. This is only for cyberlink codecs by the way, they're the only ones I know of that store settings for each individual app.. As for thumbnails on .ts, I have haali splitter handling .ts files and it has thumbnail generation options in the settings that work
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post #24 of 74 Old 09-02-2007, 04:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Sarvatt,

Lets make a summary:
Without any tweak;
You can adjust merit values of filters as default using with a tool like Radlight except EVR.
So when you open any file with GraphEdit you will see what you selected on Graph and renderer will be VideoRenderer.(as default)
But when you open it with WMP (with FFDShow audio selected as audio renderer so as to show us what filters are been using), this time you will see your default filters again and EVR instead of VR.(Media Foundation)
So if your default video renderer is Cyberlink you gonna get HA activated.

On MCE;
MS normally chooses its own filters till you make any registry change on HKLM; you will never change MCE's defaults with Radlight.
You can use a tool that sarvatt pointed out but this is for mpeg2 only and for audio if you want to follow what filters are been using you need to make a tweak at registry for ffdshow as well.
If you want to see your TS h264 files on MCE you have to use haali and tweak it again.
Do you confirm?

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post #25 of 74 Old 09-02-2007, 04:13 PM
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For MCE if you change the default MS renderer you do not get HW acceleration anymore. It will drop back to software only.
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post #26 of 74 Old 09-02-2007, 04:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by almostinsane View Post

For MCE if you change the default MS renderer you do not get HW acceleration anymore. It will drop back to software only.

Ok, i saw the same CPU utilization but it doesn't give an idea since all renderers give more or less the same result in mpeg2 files.
But i really wonder what default decoder MS uses in h264 files since it has no AVC decoder its own?

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post #27 of 74 Old 09-02-2007, 04:26 PM
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I think this would only have an impact on 720p/1080i broadcast files. For standard DVD their would be no impact as pretty much anything can decode these this day in age. My friggin' phone can play them (sort of).
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post #28 of 74 Old 09-02-2007, 04:32 PM - Thread Starter
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With 1080i mpeg2 file i got the same CPU utilization, i didn't mention the SD mpeg2s.

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post #29 of 74 Old 09-05-2007, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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No success in making ffdshow as default audio renderer for Vista MCE
Couldn't tweak registry yet.
Any advice will be appreciated!

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post #30 of 74 Old 09-09-2007, 12:49 PM
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I am unable to edit the registry values as well even after the account keys created in the registry

I see that video renderer is set to a higher priority as shown above, and am trying to make EVR the default renderer in MCE to help combat the DVD playback issues I am having (see thread above)
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