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post #1 of 33 Old 09-17-2007, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
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What do you guys think about having a small fanless pc in my coffee table that does nothing but remote desktop into my HTPC at my desk? I'd have to find a way to create a bootable cd or autostart remote desktop since the coffee table pc would be operating without a monitor. But I was thinking this way you could have gamepads, keyboards, etc. all right there at the coffee table and not have to fool with moving the htpc keyboard/mouse back and forth. I don't think the lag would be that bad since it's on 100mbit lan connection. If my couch wasn't so far away from the htpc I know I'd just bring the keyboard/mouse to the couch. But being I've got a few old pc's that could be run from a bootable pc I thought it might work.
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post #2 of 33 Old 09-17-2007, 11:32 AM
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Not possible.

Install a usb hub into the coffee table maybe, but most of us just use bluetooth keyboard and mice.
For wireless gaming I suggest the logitech cordless rumblepad2

Troy

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post #3 of 33 Old 09-17-2007, 11:33 AM - Thread Starter
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which bluetooth set do you use?
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post #4 of 33 Old 09-17-2007, 12:05 PM
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I have a logitech mouse/hub/charger and a dell bt keyboard that was under $20 by itself on ebay.

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post #5 of 33 Old 09-17-2007, 12:18 PM
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I have a 100' active USB extension cable that goes all the way from my HTPC to my coffee table after wrapping around a few walls and behind the sectional. It's terminted in a 4 port hub. My keyboard/mouse/joystick are all USB and plugged into the hub. I don't like the wirelss joysticks, they have a latency...
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post #6 of 33 Old 09-17-2007, 03:04 PM - Thread Starter
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where did you pick up a 100' extension at? monoprice only goes up to 15ft.
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post #7 of 33 Old 09-17-2007, 03:11 PM
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The usb option would even allow you to put your optical drive right there handy in the coffee table if you wanted to get that fancy, or a usb volume knob, or VFD...

That would be a cool coffee table, and with no pc there you'd have no noise issues.

You can make your own USB cables from cat5 network cables if you can find the ends. Speaking of which does anyone know a place to get some usb connectors to do a project like this?

Troy

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post #8 of 33 Old 09-17-2007, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manshack_one View Post

where did you pick up a 100' extension at? monoprice only goes up to 15ft.

36' - Item 160157666265 on fleabay.

They come and go...
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post #9 of 33 Old 09-18-2007, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcCinema View Post

The usb option would even allow you to put your optical drive right there handy in the coffee table if you wanted to get that fancy, or a usb volume knob, or VFD...

That would be a cool coffee table, and with no pc there you'd have no noise issues.

You can make your own USB cables from cat5 network cables if you can find the ends. Speaking of which does anyone know a place to get some usb connectors to do a project like this?

Troy

And if someone posted a link for a wireless USB bridge of some type.....then you wouldn't even need the cables.
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post #10 of 33 Old 09-18-2007, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcCinema View Post

Not possible.


Troy

Sure its possible. Microsoft came out with this exact device a few years ago. They were codenamed 'Freestyle' (If I remember correctly) and were just a table with Windows CE built in that its sole purpose was for remote desktop to another PC. Viewsonic made one that was called and Airtablet. I'm sure you can pick them up on e*bay for a few hundred.

*edit* Smart Display is another name for them. There not made anymore but here is a review/preview:

http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/mira_preview.asp

Here's Viewsonic model. I remember seeing these being sold for $400 on closeout.

http://www.viewsonic.com/support/mob.../airpanelv110/

*edit 2* Do an e*bay search for 'airpanel' and you can see the two Viewsonic models. They sell between $100-$500.
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post #11 of 33 Old 09-18-2007, 04:44 PM
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He said he wants to share gamepads off the coffee table system. I still don't see that working. That functionality is not in remote desktop.

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post #12 of 33 Old 09-18-2007, 05:07 PM
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I dont get the whole game pad thing in his post but RDP support USB device remapping.
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post #13 of 33 Old 09-18-2007, 05:35 PM
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manshack

a couple of questions...

First... I assume your HTPC is already hooked in to your TV / Sound system, correct?

Second, from the sounds of it you plan on using it mostly for gaming correct?

Third how far from the TV is the HTPC? And how far from your couch is your TV?

If used for games I would rule out the remote desktop or even VNC thing for that matter immediately, it will not work

If using it for gaming what types of games will be played more so? Action or sports types where the gamepad is used more, or FPS where the keyboard and mouse are used more?

Is it easy to hide cables going from the HTPC to the TV?

I know that may seem like a lot of questions but it helps narrow things down a bit.

I have two Bluetooth keyboard and mouse sets. The First is a logitech MX5000 set. It has a nice layout and a nice laser mouse, and since it operates on bluetooth the range is good. But I notice too much lag in this set, and doesnt seem to be the most reliable at times as sometimes it cuts out easier at longer distances.

The other bluetooth set I have is the MS one that is blue in color. This set feels much more responsive but I don't like the scroll wheel on the mouse as it doesnt have that tactile feel to it, kinda loose and mushy feeling. The keyboard is nice but much larger than the logitech.

I also have a older gyration mini keyboard and mouse. The mouse doesnt do it for me at all in FPS games, and not enough buttons. The shape is odd and doesnt make playing for long periods comfortable. The keyboard is nice and has a nice cover so stuff doesnt get spilled on it and ruin it. The range is nice as wellgoing much further than most other RF sets I have had.

Sadly I like my MS infrared MCE keyboard better for FPS when it comes to reliability and responsiveness. But then I need a decent mouse with good range, I have a RF lasermouse from logitech but past 5 feet it doesnt feel as nice and responsive.

If going corded I would highly reccomend the Active usb extension cables. if needed you can run it to a hub from your HTPC and put the hub in your equipment rack by your TV, then have another active extension cable going form the TV to your sitting area for your keyboard, and yes sadly another for a wired mouse. Another suggestion. If playing mostly FPS games a USB numeric keypad works wonders, you get plenty of buttons and a smaller formfactor.

Now if you primarily plan on using a gamepad I have had great luck with the logitech series of wireless gamepads. The range always seems to be good on them and batterylife is pretty nice as well.

recently though I went another route as I got tired of paying a lot for gamepads and having different gamepads at each PC. I went out and bought a few cheap madcatz (or even gamestop branded as they are the same) XBOX wireless gamepads. The range is good on these as well as battery life. They are incredibly easy to mod in to a USB controller and you only need XBCD downloaded to use it on XP or vista. Since they can be found for $19.99 or less they really are the best bang for the buck. I don't notice any lag to them or the logitech controllers (unless the batteries are dying of course lol)

With wireless game pads I feel confident you could run a active extention form your HTPc to your TV and put the gamepad receiever there.
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post #14 of 33 Old 09-19-2007, 07:33 AM - Thread Starter
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I'll try and sum it up best I can. I have a working home theater system. Mitsubishi HD1000U, Directv HD service, 5.1 surround sound receiver and a Dell XPS powerful enough to crunch 1080i via software. I downloaded Media portal and have gotten as far as linking up my music and downloaded movie folders in the setup and they seem to play fine. I really want to dowload the plugins to get emulator running for my rom collection. Which brings me to the point. I want to be able to play the games from the couch with a game pad. It's sounding like the easiest thing would be to run a USB extension. I could run a 30 footer to the base of my theater stage from the computer and not have it showing (goes through a closet). Then put a 10 ft extension on that or something to get it the rest of the way to the coffee table. That would get USB to the table where I could then plug in a gamepad or two (if i put a hub on it) or a wired keyboard. I don't guess it would hurt to have two sets of wireless kb's and mouse hooked up at the same time. I could even leave a cheap set there on the coffee table. I don't know that I'll be playing too many pc games. Mostly old nintendo stuff with the kids. Hey, they gotta crawl before they run. Plus, you've never really played super mario until he's on a 10 ft screen being chased by 2 ft goomba's.
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post #15 of 33 Old 09-19-2007, 07:51 AM
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I like your plans. You're basically making one of the largest MAME systems in existence. (except mine)

I have a pc set up just for mame in a recycled real game cabinet that goes into my projector as well as the monitor in the cabinet.

I still need to get t molding and actual original style buttons to finish my cabinet. If you search out mame on google you'll find lots of plans for actual authentic style control pads you can make, and if you wanted too you could modify that coffee table with an official style control pad overlay and real joystick and buttons.

That could look pretty slick.

I think you should also give the logitech cordless rumblepad2 a look. It's also great for these things so you can kick back in your theater chair and be free of any wires. The thing has excellent range, more than you would ever need, and batteries last a very long time since it really is good at sleeping to conserve batteries. I absolutely love it for things like MAME.

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post #16 of 33 Old 09-19-2007, 08:49 AM
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You mean like my arcade cabinet?



I made this with the capability to easily remove the top part and leave the base cabinet, then hook it to my projector or bigscreen

The projector is a lumen lab DIY projector, in my old house the screen was 125"

The new house I didn't have much room for it so it is 90"

Not to hijack this thread of course lol
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post #17 of 33 Old 09-19-2007, 09:03 AM
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Mine is just a standard cabinet circa 1983, with a celeron 1.4ghz system behind the coin door and a regular CRT monitor. You did a lot more than I did. I have a better pj though so haha.

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post #18 of 33 Old 09-19-2007, 09:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Nintari, how's your DIY pj holding up? I went through the psone plans but gave up when some extra cash came up and I found the HD1000U on sale.

I haven't really delved into MAME much. Mostly because I haven't seen any rom sets like I did the NES ones. If someone wants to pm me a link that would be great.

I'm trying to not let the coffee table thing grow into a huge project. For right now just a usb extension and hub would give me 4 spots to plug in stuff. Hey, I could even put a camera card reader on there. Take some pictures, sit at the couch, plug the memory card in, watch the slideshow. If those rumblepads will go the distance (about 20 ft) I could just leave the base for that over at the pc. I still need to add an MCE remote unless I'm going to stick with the usb extension and just keyboard my way around.

I'm really wanting to do one more thing to my pc which is to add a new video card to hook the projector too so I don't have to switch back and forth between my second desktop monitor. Problem is Dell didn't leave me a bunch of expansion slots. I don't really have to have a beefy video card since the pc can crunch it just fine but I think I'm down to one of those mini-pci slots in my chassis.


I've drooled over building a mame cabinet. What a great addition to the home theater. But if you really wanted to you could build some 'laptop' arcade joystick boards if there was a way to push it over usb. Think about putting arcade controllers on your lap. That's cool.
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post #19 of 33 Old 09-19-2007, 09:14 AM
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All you have to do to make a USB controller is cannibalize a USB keyboard and wire the buttons up to the controller chip. That's how I have a volume knob and buttons to put on my case for my next project. I took apart a USB keyboard that has a volume knob. All you need is the keyboard controller chip and USB cable part and to trace the wires back from the buttons to the chip.

Oh also I get around 35' from my cordless rumblepad and you can use a program called joystick2mouse to control the pc in any way you like or a frontend application with it. I've used it in place of a remote at times. Anything you can do with a mouse you can do with this and you can program all the buttons to do anything you like easily with joystick2mouse.

Don't do DIY projectors. If you are a tinkering type person get a high resolution CRT projector. They are selling for next to nothing these days. My last find was a NEC 9pg for $50 in pristine condition. I still need a remote for that one though. You wouldn't believe the quality these can do if you have never seen one. No pixels, gorgeous color, and sharp filmlike picture perfection compared to a diy projector. 1080i is perfect for a set like this, but so is XGA or SVGA or anything below around 1280x1024. They don't have a pixel structure so you aren't limited to one resolution.

HOWEVER they take a lot of user setup and are big and heavy. Don't think about getting one unless you are willing to accept spending time learning how to set one up and time tweaking it to get a great picture out of it.
Oh and you really have to be willing to mount 120lb pj on the ceiling to get it out of the way. If you don't ceiling mount it's taking the best seat in the house and really in the way.

These days you can get great deals on used bulb pj's too...

Troy

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post #20 of 33 Old 09-19-2007, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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joystick2mouse you say? hmmm, seems like i don't need an MCE remote anymore.

I got hooked on the DIY project for close to a year and never made it. mostly due to lack of time. That and I can't cut a straight line even with a table saw. I screwed up the lcd monitor I got a great deal on (17" backlight out for $35 bucks). I think for the money you're right, get a used CRT but you should also consider Lumenlabs projector for entry level theater. At 500 bucks it's about what you'd end up wasting trying to DIY plus bulbs are only 30 bucks. I'd live to see a comparison in person between a CRT and my DLP.
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post #21 of 33 Old 09-19-2007, 09:53 AM
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What resolution DLP?

Yes I guess if you aren't really handy you shouldn't try to make anything.

One of the great things about crt projectors is they don't need bulbs. On a good set of tubes you can stretch 20,000 hours out of them. 10,000 is what they are rated at, but they'll do much more if you don't drive too big of a screen.

I also took a lcd apart that needed a backlight and the thing still sits here in parts.
I just couldn't justify the cost of the backlight for a 15"er, but I didn't actually break it. I think it'll just end up in the trash.

Troy

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post #22 of 33 Old 09-19-2007, 10:03 AM - Thread Starter
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720p native widescreen. I've been really happy with it.

I'm handy with stuff, mostly computers.

You could probably sell that lcd over at lumenlab.com.
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post #23 of 33 Old 09-19-2007, 10:19 AM
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720p is good, I wouldn't complain about that and it would do better than that level of CRT I listed at some things and worse at others. As in digital is inherently sharp, so the pixel structure might make it look sharper at 720p, but CRT will give much better picture at anything other than 720p because it does all resolutions well and isn't limited to a fixed pixel structure. Colors and contrast ratio is through the roof on a crt too. When a crt does black, it's really black. When a dlp does black, you can still see lots of light on the screen and it's kind of grey.

But I'll be the first to say a crt is certainly NOT for everyone and they can be a real pain in the ass sometimes with how heavy they are and mounting to the ceiling and having to converge each resolution individually etc.

They each have their strong points and if you could find a 720p dlp for $50 I'd say take that over the crt.

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post #24 of 33 Old 09-19-2007, 03:10 PM - Thread Starter
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man I just had another idea. External dvd burner. USB based so it fits into the hub. I'll have power hooked up inside the coffee table too. Then I can play dvds or cd based games from the couch too! Come home from blockbuster, sit on the couch, lean over and pop in your movie while the pj is warming up.....good times....good times...
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post #25 of 33 Old 09-19-2007, 03:23 PM
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Post number 7 I suggested that same thing already.

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post #26 of 33 Old 09-19-2007, 04:31 PM
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The Xbox 360 controllers work wirelessly with PC's.
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post #27 of 33 Old 09-19-2007, 05:08 PM
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from what I hear though the XBOX 360 wireless transciever kills USB ports. Just google it

I thought about going that route but the setup would be too expensive compared to my little wireless XBOX pad I could have 4 of mine, but only one of those
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post #28 of 33 Old 09-19-2007, 06:02 PM
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Its been fixed. And it doesn't kill the ports, you just unplug the receiver and plug it back in for it to work.
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post #29 of 33 Old 09-20-2007, 06:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcCinema View Post

Post number 7 I suggested that same thing already.

Troy


My bad Troy. I just got excited and went post-al.
Was looking more closely at my coffee table last night and it seems prime for a cut down the width of it, put on some hinges to lift the top, put 2 peices of plywood underneath and I'd have instant hidden storage for the wireless keyboard and mouse.
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post #30 of 33 Old 09-20-2007, 06:57 AM
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Chop up the coffee table and modify it. I like it.

What's the wife say about all this?

Troy

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