Guide to Building a HTPC, Workstation and Server - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 19149 Old 12-06-2007, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mattfl View Post

Antec New Solution NSK2480 Black/Silver 0.8mm cold-rolled steel MicroATX Desktop Computer Case 380W Power Supply
GIGABYTE GA-MA69GM-S2H AM2 AMD 690G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ Brisbane 2.6GHz Socket AM2 65W Black Edition Processor Model ADO5000DSWOF (Will probably overclock this just a bit)
A-DATA Value Series 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model VDQVE1A16K
Scythe SCMNJ-1000 80mm Sleeve "NINJA MINI" CPU Cooler - Retail

I'll have probably a 200+ gig drive as the main drive and then a few external 500 gig drives for media, will connect via HDMI to my tv and via optical to my receiver. Total price should be under $400

That looks like a very similar spec to what I was considering - I'm toying with addiing a 2400XT and dropping to a M/B without the X1250 IGP. What do folks think?
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post #452 of 19149 Old 12-06-2007, 09:44 PM - Thread Starter
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mdoog

- CW03 is too new to see user's or professional reviews.

- Q6600 works with DS4 Rev. 2.0 right out of the box.
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post #453 of 19149 Old 12-06-2007, 10:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ethanol View Post

What about 2400XT?

2400 XT (basically the same as 2400 Pro with much higher memory clock) is fine. But 2600 Pro is a much better choice as the price difference is only ~$10.

If you are going for a discrete graphics, then you may choose AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ ADO4400DDBOX 2.3GHz 65W ($84) or Athlon X2 BE-2400 ADH2400DOBOX 2.3GHz 45W ($100). They are cheaper and cooler than the Black Edition.
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post #454 of 19149 Old 12-06-2007, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by renethx View Post

mdoog

- CW03 is too new to see user's or professional reviews.

- Q6600 works with DS4 Rev. 2.0 right out of the box.

ok thanks and ya after posting i found that the info on the CW03 came out less than a month ago, seems nice that it is 14 mm taller, making it easier to fit the larger heatsinks and allow better airflow, too bad, anyways my question is would the Thermalright Ultra-90 be able to fit in the LC18? i guess the Scythe Ninja Mini would fit all of my needs also.

so since it would be in the LC18 case instead, only switching to the Scythe Ninja Mini and using everything else listed previously i should be set? in terms of compatibility and physically fitting that is.
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post #455 of 19149 Old 12-07-2007, 12:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mdoog View Post

ok thanks and ya after posting i found that the info on the CW03 came out less than a month ago, seems nice that it is 14 mm taller, making it easier to fit the larger heatsinks and allow better airflow, too bad, anyways my question is would the Thermalright Ultra-90 be able to fit in the LC18? i guess the Scythe Ninja Mini would fit all of my needs also.

so since it would be in the LC18 case instead, only switching to the Scythe Ninja Mini and using everything else listed previously i should be set? in terms of compatibility and physically fitting that is.

The max height of a cooler should be 138mm for SilverStone LC18 (H170mm) according to SPCR Forum - Silverstone GD01 and LC17 HTPC Cases. I think you would want Thermalright Ultima-90 instead of Ultra-90 as it is shorter (139mm) and better. Ultima-90 barely fits in LC17/LC18/LC20/GD01/CW01. It will fit in CW03.

I don't recommend Ninja Mini for cooling Q6600. BTF90 or Ultima-90 is better for a quad-core.
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post #456 of 19149 Old 12-07-2007, 12:59 PM
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Quick question: how important is the size of the cache on the CPU in terms of HD playback using GMA3x00? I ask this because i have read other boards that a 1Mb Cache limits video performance, yet i was considering a E2160 to overclock on my HTPC.

Would i be better off getting a CPU with a larger cache such as an E6xxx?
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post #457 of 19149 Old 12-07-2007, 11:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eeexeee View Post

Quick question: how important is the size of the cache on the CPU in terms of HD playback using GMA3x00? I ask this because i have read other boards that a 1Mb Cache limits video performance, yet i was considering a E2160 to overclock on my HTPC.

Would i be better off getting a CPU with a larger cache such as an E6xxx?

In general cache size does not matter, CPU frequency is everything for video playback without GPU HW assist.
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post #458 of 19149 Old 12-08-2007, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

The max height of a cooler should be 138mm for SilverStone LC18 (H170mm) according to SPCR Forum - Silverstone GD01 and LC17 HTPC Cases. I think you would want Thermalright Ultima-90 instead of Ultra-90 as it is shorter (139mm) and better. Ultima-90 barely fits in LC17/LC18/LC20/GD01/CW01. It will fit in CW03.

I don't recommend Ninja Mini for cooling Q6600. BTF90 or Ultima-90 is better for a quad-core.

Uhm, you have some graph to link me to avvalorate this?
I was thinking to go with the ninja mini and a Q9300 or Q9450.

I'm considering the same case (SS CW03), that looks the best among all cases using 7" touchscreens.
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post #459 of 19149 Old 12-08-2007, 06:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RealTelstar View Post

Uhm, you have some graph to link me to avvalorate this?
I was thinking to go with the ninja mini and a Q9300 or Q9450.

I'm considering the same case (SS CW03), that looks the best among all cases using 7" touchscreens.

That's my experience. Minja is not bad, but BTF90 is better for Q6600 @3.0GHz. Yorkfield runs cooler than Q6600, so Minja should be fine. I haven't tested Ultima-90, but it should be better than BTF90.
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post #460 of 19149 Old 12-08-2007, 09:00 AM
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Great thread! renethx, thanks for all your time and effort. My family room home theater requirement:

All must fit neatly into my girlfriends entertainment center(what a pain)

Dell Dimension 4600 (mATX I think) laying sideways:
Pentium 4 2.8
1.5GB RAM
Visiontek HD 2400 Pro outputing 1920x1080 60MHz to
Sony Bravia KDL-40V3000 (purchased because of width restraint, might upgrade to 46" if I can tweak a shelf) via DVI to HDMI cable
Dolby Digital Mystique sound card output to Yamaha RX-V361(purchased because of depth restraint) via optical running 3.1 to yamaha FCR and sub

The mobo looks like a mATX and I wanted to move all HTPC components to an attractive SHALLOW DEPTH case exactly like the A-Tech 3000 Heatsink Case that you recommend, but hopefully much cheaper.

Questions:
1. Is there another less expensive alternative to the A-Tech 3000 with the same depth?

2. Can I even move all the components out of the Dell or am I going to have some kind of proprietary BS dilemma?

Kindest Regard for any help
Sid
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post #461 of 19149 Old 12-08-2007, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
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SilverStone LC02/LC04 is relatively shallow, but still 300mm in depth. Moreover you need to use riser cards to install expansion cards and AGP is not supported so that you can't use the mb from Dell Dimension 4600.

Perhaps you'd better buy a new mb (with or without IGP), CPU and memory.
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post #462 of 19149 Old 12-08-2007, 12:47 PM
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Thx for the quick response.

One more question, I use an external Double layer DVD attached via USB to my HTPC. When I am watching DVD's my TV says 1080P on the display. Am I to assume that my video card is upconverting my DVD's to 1080P?
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post #463 of 19149 Old 12-08-2007, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sid.leake@gdsonl View Post

Thx for the quick response.

One more question, I use an external Double layer DVD attached via USB to my HTPC. When I am watching DVD's my TV says 1080P on the display. Am I to assume that my video card is upconverting my DVD's to 1080P?

My guess is that no matter what your HTPC is displaying it will be sending a 1080p signal to your TV. (Fullscreen 3d games are the exception)
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post #464 of 19149 Old 12-09-2007, 09:40 AM
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Is SW Raid 5 fast enough for torrent downloads at 8mb/s ?

What about Hard Drive playback of data backed up from HD DVD/ BLU-RAY disks at ...50mb/s (i believe that was the streaming data rate, correct me if I'm wrong)?

Which SW Raid gives the best reliability and performance?

Edit: WOW, switched up B/b TWICE, I must have been REALLY drunk!!!!
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post #465 of 19149 Old 12-09-2007, 09:54 AM
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this is a really informative thread, well done renethx.

now to my question!!!

can i use the motherboard (GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3R) in a media server. will it support hardware RAID 5 via its 7 sataII ports. If not what other options do I have. ideally i wouldnt like to spend extra $$$ buying a dedidated raid card. will i still get good results with an onboard raid set up.
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post #466 of 19149 Old 12-09-2007, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yucky View Post

Is SW Raid 5 fast enough for torrent downloads at 8mB/s ?

What about Hard Drive playback of data backed up from HD DVD/ BLU-RAY disks at ...50mB/s (i believe that was the streaming data rate, correct me if I'm wrong)?

mB/s? That's mBytes/sec. I think you meant mb/s - mbits/sec. Most cable broadband rates are 10mb/s max.

Even the poorest SW RAID-5 implementation would be able to do 8mb/s, or 1MB/s, on writes.

On reads, there should be very little RAID-5 overhead - assuming you don't have a failed drive and aren't running in degraded mode. 50mb/s is no problem.
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post #467 of 19149 Old 12-09-2007, 10:06 AM
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Thx - very well done thread and lots of hard work that is much appreciated!!

I'm looking to build an HTPC that will do the following:
- Play my MP3 collection
- screen show pictures
- play standard DVD's with the same or better quality than my current stand alone 480P player.
- capable of playing Blue Ray or HD Dvd in the future when the prices of players drops.

My questions:
- what is the minimum level of CPU?
- what is the minimum level of GPU?
- Do I need a stand alone sound card or will an integrated MOBO work for surround?
- Other things I should consider to make this work well?

Thx in advance!!
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post #468 of 19149 Old 12-09-2007, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yucky View Post

Which SW Raid gives the best reliability and performance?

RAID-6 has the best reliability and lowest performance. (Reads are actually high performance, but writes are REALLY poor.) It supports two drive failures, but software implementations are not common.

RAID-5 is similar to RAID-6, but supports just one drive failure. It is also the most efficient RAID level, requiring just one drive's worth of overhead. (RAID-6 is two.)

RAID-10 has good reliability and best performance. It supports one drive failure per RAID-1 pair. In other words, half the drives could fail and the array would still work, assuming they were the correct drives. If not, a two drive failure can bring down the array. Also, RAID-10 is the least efficient RAID level, requiring half your drives to be used for overhead.

(BTW, I'm assuming that you're asking about redundant arrays, and not RAID-0.)

Also it's important to point out that software RAID is not bootable, it can't support write-back cache and it can take a lot of CPU cycles. Hardware RAID with battery-backup avoids all these problems, but of course costs more.

With all this said, do you really need the redundancy offered by RAID? Do you care that your media library is taken down when a drive fails? If you're not serving video to a hotel, etc., then losing access isn't a big deal. Just tell your family to watch a DVD. It's not like you're going to actually lose your data, because it's backed up, right? Remember, RAID isn't a backup strategy - it's an "always available" strategy. That's why I use RAID-0 for my media, and I backup to cheap, external USB drives. And I try to keep those USB drives offsite, at my office or wherever, just in case the house burns down - knock on wood.
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post #469 of 19149 Old 12-09-2007, 01:12 PM
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audio card connections vs. quality.

Looking at the HT Omega Claro, will the s/pdif connection be a cleaner/higher quality connection vs. the miniplugs? I assume so, but not sure.
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post #470 of 19149 Old 12-09-2007, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwdon View Post

audio card connections vs. quality.

Looking at the HT Omega Claro, will the s/pdif connection be a cleaner/higher quality connection vs. the miniplugs? I assume so, but not sure.

The s/pdif signal is digital and "should" be better than the analog signal on the miniplugs. You'll also be able to run a longer cable with no degredation in quality.
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post #471 of 19149 Old 12-09-2007, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwdon View Post

audio card connections vs. quality.

Looking at the HT Omega Claro, will the s/pdif connection be a cleaner/higher quality connection vs. the miniplugs? I assume so, but not sure.

IMO in all but the highest end soundcards (X-Fi elite or Xmeridian) the digital output will sound better since your amp/receiver will likely have better DACs. However, the DACs on the two previously menitoned sound cards rivals that of many times more expensive amps and receivers.
If you just want to get digital output and are not worried about gaming, I would look into a cheaper soundcard or maybe even onboard sound with a digital output.
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post #472 of 19149 Old 12-09-2007, 02:15 PM
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I am going to do gaming with this rig, COD4 is my current favorite online player. I'm feeding the audio to a onkyo 805. So will the HT Omega Claro do what I want? $150 seems steep for a audio card, but to play the 7.1 channels, the bluray/hd quality video and gaming capabilities well, I can see investing in the price of the audio card.
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post #473 of 19149 Old 12-10-2007, 05:14 AM - Thread Starter
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yucky

Linux RAID is fast and reliable. Windows Server is good, but perhaps too pricey for home users ($400). UnRAID (not RAID, but close to RAID 4) is a bit slow, but good enough for a media server (streaming HD files).
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post #474 of 19149 Old 12-10-2007, 05:17 AM - Thread Starter
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ICH9R (used in GA-P35-DS3R) supports up to 6 drives in a RAID array. There are 8 SATA ports on the board, but two of them are from JMicron JMB363 and cannot be mixed with ICH9R RAID. ICH9R RAID is reasonably good.
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post #475 of 19149 Old 12-10-2007, 05:23 AM - Thread Starter
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drfous

Playing back Blue Ray or HD Dvd is the most demanding. Basically the CPU and GPU in the low-end systems in my recommedations are the minimum, IMO. If you don't mind overclocking, a lower-clocked processor (E2140, E2160, E2180) is also fine. As for audio, the onboard S/PDIF or analog audio works for surround.
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post #476 of 19149 Old 12-10-2007, 05:41 AM - Thread Starter
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bmwdon

I am not sure about COD4, but in general EMU20K1 (CA20K1)-based cards are better than CMI8788-base cards for gaming (suppporing EAX 3/4/5 and OpenAL). Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer is a good choice (only $50 after rebate!). Of course Elite is the best choice.
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post #477 of 19149 Old 12-10-2007, 06:08 AM
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bummer, I already ordered the ht omega claro card. I'm mostly concerned with the hd/blu playback quality, gaming is a second string concern, and I think the omega card is going to be better than the 5.1 onboard PC sound quality I'm used to.

I'm trying to justify replacing my 7800gt's with a pair of 8600gts right now for the cpu load relief, think the load on a am2 5200 running the 7800's is going to be great enough to effect movie playback performance, justifies getting a cheapo pair of 8600gt's? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814122024
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post #478 of 19149 Old 12-10-2007, 07:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwdon View Post

bummer, I already ordered the ht omega claro card. I'm mostly concerned with the hd/blu playback quality, gaming is a second string concern, and I think the omega card is going to be better than the 5.1 onboard PC sound quality I'm used to.

I'm trying to justify replacing my 7800gt's with a pair of 8600gts right now for the cpu load relief, think the load on a am2 5200 running the 7800's is going to be great enough to effect movie playback performance, justifies getting a cheapo pair of 8600gt's? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814122024

The number of GPUs does not affect CPU offload, one GPU is enough. 8600 GT is almost identical with 8600 GTS for video playback. If you want better gaming performance, then get GeForce 8800 GT.
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post #479 of 19149 Old 12-10-2007, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

drfous

Playing back Blue Ray or HD Dvd is the most demanding. Basically the CPU and GPU in the low-end systems in my recommedations are the minimum, IMO. If you don't mind overclocking, a lower processor (E2140, E2160) is also fine. As for audio, the onboard S/PDIF or analog audio works fo surround.

I'm considering getting an 8500GT as recommended in your minimum system builds. Would I notice any real difference if I went with an 8600GT instead? It seems like there are several good fanless 8500s but not too many fanless 8600s.
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post #480 of 19149 Old 12-10-2007, 08:28 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm considering getting an 8500GT as recommended in your minimum system builds. Would I notice any real difference if I went with an 8600GT instead? It seems like there are several good fanless 8500s but not too many fanless 8600s.

Just get a fanless 8500 GT, you will be fine. 8600 GT has 32 shader units (vs. 16 in 8500 GT) that affects postprocessing, in particular deinterlacing interlaced AVC material.
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