Guide to Building a HTPC, Workstation and Server - Page 334 - AVS Forum
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post #9991 of 19149 Old 09-19-2009, 10:42 PM
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is the AMD Athlon II X2 245 way superior to the pentium dual core e5300?
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post #9992 of 19149 Old 09-19-2009, 10:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beta Tester View Post

On that page there are 3 models listed, but the bottom one is the slowest (873MHz) but yet the most expensive. Is it because it is the old model?

Anyways, I was able to find that one locally, so I look forward to trying it out.

[Edit] It appears that the one I bought (and appears at the bottom of the URL above) uses DDR3 memory instead of GDDR3. What is the difference between them?

Confusion on memory clock is common because of DDR (double data rate). Memory I/O bus clock (MHz) and the data transfer rate (MTps [mega transfer per second]) of each models are:

- Sapphire HD 4670 DDR3 512MB/1GB Arctic Cooling models: 800MHz/1600MTps
- Sapphire HD 4670 DDR3 1GB 1-slot cooler model: 873MHz/1746MTps. (Look here.)

So 873MHz is the fastest.

I am sure these cards use DDR3 instead of GDDR3 (here; now GDDR3 is very rare).
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post #9993 of 19149 Old 09-19-2009, 10:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tijs_Verwest View Post

is the AMD Athlon II X2 245 way superior to the pentium dual core e5300?

No, they are more or less of the same performance.
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post #9994 of 19149 Old 09-19-2009, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Usually each model is manufactured in a certain amount of quantities in a short period of time, then automatically discontinued if all cards are sold out. Each manufacturer designs a couple of models for each chip (e.g. HD 4670) during the lifespan of the chip (1-2 years). This is common in the mb and graphics card industry. Sapphire is no exception.

As for the fan issue, each manufacturer designs its own PCB and cooling solution. If there are lots of complaints about a particular model, then the design of that model may be defective. Otherwise no meaningful conclusion can be drawn. And I haven't seen a complaint about the fan in the Sapphire HD 4670 GDDR4 512MB Arctic Cooling cooler model. (Have you, except for yourself?)

Thanks rene, that clears things up. Because I had a problem with the card, I was wondering if the discontinuing might shed some light on it, but looks like it's just business as usual. Guess I just got a bad egg. I've come across a few complaints about fans on 4670 cards, but most of them don't specify the company, so I don't know if they were Sapphires with GDDR4.

The funny thing is that the card was only 4 months old and I had no problems with it until it suddenly died on me. Go figure. Just shipped it back yesterday, I hope Sapphire doesn't take too long sending the replacement.
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post #9995 of 19149 Old 09-20-2009, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Confusion on memory clock is common because of DDR (double data rate). Memory I/O bus clock (MHz) and the data transfer rate (MTps [mega transfer per second]) of each models are:

- Sapphire HD 4670 DDR3 512MB/1GB Arctic Cooling models: 800MHz/1600MTps
- Sapphire HD 4670 DDR3 1GB 1-slot cooler model: 873MHz/1746MTps. (Look here.)

So 873MHz is the fastest.

I am sure these cards use DDR3 instead of GDDR3 (here; now GDDR3 is very rare).

Looks like I got the best one of the 3. Thanks for all your help! I am looking forward to replacing the Nvidia 8500GT whose picture quality I have never been happy with.


Quote:
Originally Posted by C E Jones View Post

I've come across a few complaints about fans on 4670 cards, but most of them don't specify the company, so I don't know if they were Sapphires with GDDR4.

I wonder if there is a way of being alerted if the fan on the video card stops spinning?
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post #9996 of 19149 Old 09-20-2009, 01:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

My recommendation is sell both GeForce 8600 GT and Sondigo inferno, and buy Sapphire Radeon HD 4670 or 4550 (as on page 85). (4670 is better in PQ, of course.) Connect the HDMI connector to Onkyo 805. Then you will get multichannel LPCM (lossless) audio from any audio source over HDMI. Using Onkyo 805 with S/PDIF or analog is a waste.

Your mb and CPU should be fine.


Would it be better audio and PQ wise to upgrade to the 4670 or to go with your low-budget AMD/nvidia builds mobo and switch to on board everything? I think my current amd cpu will work in that one. New GPU route is the cheapest but I am open to a new mobo.

edit: Quick addition here - On my TV (sony A3000) the htpc sometimes has trouble getting the tv it power up depending on its input and what the htpc is doing. I use to just reset the htpc and when it rebooted the tv would power up. Now i have a second monitor hooked to it and if i turn it on it will make the TV boot up. Is there a fix to this or an easier way? I dont like the extra monitor in my theater. It doesnt happen often though I dont know what exactly causes it sometimes the screen just doesnt come up.
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post #9997 of 19149 Old 09-20-2009, 03:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MomboX View Post

Would it be better audio and PQ wise to upgrade to the 4670 or to go with your low-budget AMD/nvidia builds mobo and switch to on board everything? I think my current amd cpu will work in that one. New GPU route is the cheapest but I am open to a new mobo.

edit: Quick addition here - On my TV (sony A3000) the htpc sometimes has trouble getting the tv it power up depending on its input and what the htpc is doing. I use to just reset the htpc and when it rebooted the tv would power up. Now i have a second monitor hooked to it and if i turn it on it will make the TV boot up. Is there a fix to this or an easier way? I dont like the extra monitor in my theater. It doesnt happen often though I dont know what exactly causes it sometimes the screen just doesnt come up.

Adding HD 4670 is the best way (in PQ). No need to upgrade CPU/mb (unless there are specific features you want).

Gefen HDMI Detective Plus? I am not sure if this fixes your issue.
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post #9998 of 19149 Old 09-20-2009, 06:47 AM
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I am planning to convert a dell inspiron 530 to a HTPC. It has a eVGA e-GeForce 8600 GT 256MB card on it--which I think would be adequate for driving a TV that is 480P/1080i. I just need a DVI to hdmi cable. The problem is audio. There is no digital audio out--not even on the board. Can anyone suggest a decent inexpensive sound card to go with it? BTW, the audio is going straight to a denon 1610 receiver. Thanks.
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post #9999 of 19149 Old 09-20-2009, 07:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nsahoo View Post

I am planning to convert a dell inspiron 530 to a HTPC. It has a eVGA e-GeForce 8600 GT 256MB card on it--which I think would be adequate for driving a TV that is 480P/1080i. I just need a DVI to hdmi cable. The problem is audio. There is no digital audio out--not even on the board. Can anyone suggest a decent inexpensive sound card to go with it? BTW, the audio is going straight to a denon 1610 receiver. Thanks.

- DIAMOND XtremeSound XS71 7.1/24 bit PCI Card, $25
- Turtle Beach Audio Advantage Micro USB Sound Card (stereo LPCM is limited to 48kHz), $24

But, as S/PDIF is limited to stereo LPCM and DD/DTS, you'd better replace the graphics card with a graphics card with HDMI audio supporting multichannel LPCM and DD/DTS.

- SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 4550 DDR3 512MB HDMI, $45
- SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 4670 DDR3 1GB, $70.
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post #10000 of 19149 Old 09-20-2009, 07:22 AM
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Thanks for your quick reply. It seems more and more that I should chuck the video card and go with something current. I guess I eliminated two details: I kinda wanted to keep the current ubuntu OS on it. So, I'd prefer an nvidia card. Any similar options on on the nvidia side? The other is if I have to switch to vista, I at least want to use a 64 bit version. Is there good 64 bit driver for the DIAMOND XtremeSound XS71 ? Thanks again!

Edit: If I do move to vista: how is Asus EAH 4650 @ newegg
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post #10001 of 19149 Old 09-20-2009, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nsahoo View Post

Thanks for your quick reply. It seems more and more that I should chuck the video card and go with something current. I guess I eliminated two details: I kinda wanted to keep the current ubuntu OS on it. So, I'd prefer an nvidia card. Any similar options on on the nvidia side? The other is if I have to switch to vista, I at least want to use a 64 bit version. Is there good 64 bit driver for the DIAMOND XtremeSound XS71 ? Thanks again!

Edit: If I do move to vista: how is Asus EAH 4650 @ newegg

G210 (replacing 8500 GT/9400 GT) and GT220 (between 9500 GT and 9600 GT) are expected in October which support multichannel LPCM HDMI audio. This thread.

Not sure of a 64-bit driver.

HD 4650 should be good but the quietness of this model is unknown
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post #10002 of 19149 Old 09-20-2009, 09:08 AM
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hello fellows
i have this hp laptop
probook 4510s
it comes with Intel mobile 3 series graphic card chip

it won't play my bluray iso thru cyberlink pdvd
i download and ran the hd/bd advisor everything is good except graphic card driver
i download and install the latest driver

what am i missing?
please help
by the way it plays the bd structure fine with pdvd and wmedia player
thanks in advance
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post #10003 of 19149 Old 09-20-2009, 09:50 AM
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I've taken some of the advice I've read on this thread and I've come down to three HTPC setups. I'm still looking at different setups and I am willing to move up in down in price (faster/slower CPU, video card change, etc.), the issue comes down to the features of each system I guess. All the systems are nearly identical, except for case, video card and optical drive.

HTPC Setup 1
Motherboard: Zotac GF9300-G-E Mini ITX Wi-Fi ($139.99)
CPU: Intel Pentium E5300 2.6GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor ($69.99)
Memory: G.SKILL F2-6400CL4D-4GBPK 4GB DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit ($69.99)
Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EADS 1TB 3.5" ($84.99)
Case: Apex MI-008 Black Steel Mini-ITX Tower Computer Case 250W Power Supply ($39.99)
Optical Drive: LG Black 8X Blu-Ray Reader/16X LightScribe DVD±R DVD Burner ($104.99) or Samsung SH-S223B 22x DVD Burner ($27.99)
Video Card: Sapphire 100274L Radeon HD 4350 1GB 64-bit GDDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 ($39.99)
Total: $549.93 (Blu-Ray) or $472.93 (DVD)

HTPC Setup 2
Motherboard: Zotac GF9300-G-E Mini ITX Wi-Fi ($139.99)
CPU: Intel Pentium E5300 2.6GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor ($69.99)
Memory: G.SKILL F2-6400CL4D-4GBPK 4GB DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit ($69.99)
Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EADS 1TB 3.5" ($84.99)
Case: SilverStone SG05 Mini-ITX Computer Case with SFX 300W Power Supply (80 PLUS) ($99.99)
Optical Drive: SilverStone TOB02 Blu-Ray/DVD-RW ($149.99) or Sony AD-7590S-01 Optiarc Slim 8X DVD±R Burner ($48.99)
Video Card: HIS H465PS512P Radeon HD 4650 512MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 ($62.99)
Total: $677.93 (Blu-Ray) or $576.93 (DVD)

HTPC Setup 3
Motherboard: Zotac GF9300-G-E Mini ITX Wi-Fi ($139.99)
CPU: Intel Pentium E5300 2.6GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor ($69.99)
Memory: G.SKILL F2-6400CL4D-4GBPK 4GB DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit ($69.99)
Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EADS 1TB 3.5" ($84.99)
Case: SilverStone SG06 Mini-ITX Computer Case with SFX 300W Power Supply (80 PLUS) ($129.99)
Optical Drive: SilverStone TOB02 Blu-Ray/DVD-RW ($149.99) or Sony AD-7590S-01 Optiarc Slim 8X DVD±R Burner ($48.99)
Video Card: HIS H465PS512P Radeon HD 4650 512MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 ($62.99)
Total: $707.93 (Blu-Ray) or $606.93 (DVD)

One thing I'll probably pass on is the Blu-Ray drive, but I included it anyway. I think I'll be getting an HDTV in November or December, but I don't think I'll really jump into the Blu-Ray market. My thinking is that the Blu-Ray drive can be a future upgrade, which will definitely help drop the cost of the system.

My concern really comes down to video card and power. I know I've been given some advice, and I was hoping that some may have a little bit more information. I'm not a gamer, but I do have some games. I would like to put my all my emulator/ROMs on my machine, and I'm thinking HTPC Setup 1 won't be a problem in this regard. However, I do have some games that may be a little more taxing, and I'd like to play them on the machine (although I really wonder if I will). The most advanced game I can see being played on this machine is Half-Life 2 (I have considered getting GTA4). I don't need to have the highest resolution with all the features turned on, but I don't want to be forced into playing things at very low resolution and still have issues with frame rate. I think that's where the Radeon 4350 is really weak, a little too slow and the 64-bit interface is probably a source of bottleneck. I would love to toss the Radeon 4650 into HTPC Setup 1, but I'm wondering if it will fit.

This kind of puts me into picking HTPC 2 or 3. I've elected to go with a fanless video card, but how much is fan noise a factor? During a game I don't think I'm very concerned with fan noise, but I would hate to hear the whir of a fan while I'm watching video. Can anyone speak on the fan noise of the 4650/4670 cards? I've been looking for a card with a component output adapter. ATI cards have DVI to Component adapter, but the 4000 Series isn't listed on their compatibility list. I've read a comment here or there about forcing component out on the 4000 series cards, but nothing truly concrete.

You'll notice that HTPC Setup 2 and 3 have different cases; Silent PC Review says the SilverStone SG06 is quieter than the SG05, but I'm wondering if this will really matter for a box that is sitting under my TV.

There is another possible setup, which is probably the ideal yet impossible choice, but I don't even know if it is feasible:
HTPC Setup 4
Motherboard: Zotac GF9300-G-E Mini ITX Wi-Fi ($139.99)
CPU: Intel Pentium E5300 2.6GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor ($69.99)
Memory: G.SKILL F2-6400CL4D-4GBPK 4GB DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit ($69.99)
Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EADS 1TB 3.5" ($84.99)
Case: Apex MI-008 Black Steel Mini-ITX Tower Computer Case 250W Power Supply ($39.99)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-S223B 22x DVD Burner ($27.99)
Video Card: HIS H465PS512P Radeon HD 4650 512MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 ($62.99)
PSU: Nexus 300W Quiet Power Supply 19.8 dB ($39.95) or Nexus 430W Compact ATX Quiet Power Supply ($79.95)
Total: $535.88 (300W) or $575.88 (430W)

I can put in the better video card and swap for a 300W power supply, and it is still cheaper than HTPC Setup 2. New Egg says the recommended power supply is 400W or greater, but I wonder if this really is the case.

A very long winded post, but it's all about decisions, decisions, decisions.
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post #10004 of 19149 Old 09-20-2009, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

No, they are more or less of the same performance.

But in the end which is better ? sorry but i really wanna know , and are these processors way superior to an overclocked atom 330 @ 2.0 ghz?
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post #10005 of 19149 Old 09-20-2009, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroubleMan View Post

One thing I'll probably pass on is the Blu-Ray drive, but I included it anyway. I think I'll be getting an HDTV in November or December, but I don't think I'll really jump into the Blu-Ray market. My thinking is that the Blu-Ray drive can be a future upgrade, which will definitely help drop the cost of the system.



I've elected to go with a fanless video card, but how much is fan noise a factor? During a game I don't think I'm very concerned with fan noise, but I would hate to hear the whir of a fan while I'm watching video. Can anyone speak on the fan noise of the 4650/4670 cards?

With respect to the Blu-Ray drive, why not do it now? It will be a perfectly functional DVD reader/burner and it would spare you from having to open the case later. You are almost certainly going to want it at some point.

Regarding video card fan noise, I guess that depends on where you put the PC. I found that the Sapphire 4670 that I bought has a very loud fan to my ears. I replaced it with an HIS fanless model and I'm much happier.
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post #10006 of 19149 Old 09-20-2009, 12:19 PM
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With respect to the Blu-Ray drive, why not do it now? It will be a perfectly functional DVD reader/burner and it would spare you from having to open the case later. You are almost certainly going to want it at some point.

I know I will want it at some point, but I'm not exactly sure at what point. I can easily do without a Blu-Ray drive for another one or two years, so that's why I'm considering waiting and putting a drive in later, prices will definitely be lower.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayest View Post

Regarding video card fan noise, I guess that depends on where you put the PC. I found that the Sapphire 4670 that I bought has a very loud fan to my ears. I replaced it with an HIS fanless model and I'm much happier.

I think I will stick with fanless, thanks for the info.

It looks like I'll go with the HIS H465PS512P Radeon HD 4650 512MB 128-bit GDDR2; however, I might take the HIS H467PS1GH Radeon HD 4670 iSilence4 1GB 128-bit DDR3 if I decide to pull the trigger on an LCD TV, which means component out won't matter.
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post #10007 of 19149 Old 09-20-2009, 01:30 PM
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Alright I am going to nab on of those 4670's for 70 bucks. Then save up for a bluray optical drive. I think I am going to try and get one of those LG drives that play both hddvd and bluray.

Random question has anyone had to buy a HDMI switcher? I am thinking I will probably need one soon and would like one my Harmony 880 can control. Need probably 3-5 ports.
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post #10008 of 19149 Old 09-20-2009, 02:30 PM
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Rene,

I'm looking at the DG45ID in place of the P5Q-EM on the midrange mAtx build. This is based on a recent, very favorable review that the teething issues on the intel board seem to be resolved. Since the ability to do any gaming is far secondary to video playback quality for me, I wonder if I should also forgo the discreet graphics on the recommended build. Any thoughts?

I can't post links yet but the article is on MissingRemote (published two weeks ago).

Thank you
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post #10009 of 19149 Old 09-20-2009, 03:21 PM
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What would cause no support. I finally got 7.1 audio with latest Realtek.

I'm using http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128395Gig 785 ATX

With http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814121274 to get 7.1 - Finally.

I checked the bios is latest
I tried different drivers, 9.6, 9.7, Gigabyte site has brought me back to 9.9 since I have W7100 installed.

TMT 160 plays fine - doesn't give me any hdcp not supported.

Thanks for any ideas.

"The purpose of diplomacy is to prolong a crisis." Spock, Mark of Gideon, TOS
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post #10010 of 19149 Old 09-20-2009, 03:58 PM
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How do you get most of your h.264 (.mkv) files to display subtitles? using Windows 7 RTM. VSfilter and Radlight Filter Manager?
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post #10011 of 19149 Old 09-20-2009, 09:42 PM
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hi renethx,

I am gonna build as your midrange but exclude the graphic card and using onboard for HDMI. The reason for that is I am just browsing net and downlaod movie and watch movie straight up from HTPC. No gaming at all. What do you think?

* CPU: Core 2 Duo E7500 2.93GHz 3MB L2 LGA775, $113.
* CPU Cooler: Cooler Master 風神鍛 (Geminii S) RR-CCH-PBU1-GP, $32.
* Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H LGA775 GeForce 9400 mGPU microATX, $130. A cheaper alternative is MSI P7NGM-Digital LGA775 GeForce 9300 mGPU microATX, $105, which is of better value if you don't need an S/PDIF port and an eSATA port.
* Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1B16K DDR2-800 2 x 2GB Kit, $57.
* Graphics Card: ASUS EN9600GT/DI/512MD3 GeForce 9600 GT DDR3 512MB, $77.
* HDD: Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA 3.0Gbps, $70.
* PSU: Corsair VX450W CMPSU-450VX 450W, $60.
* Case: Antec Fusion Remote Black microATX, with LCD/IR receiver/remote, $140.
* Total Cost: $679
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post #10012 of 19149 Old 09-20-2009, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinha916 View Post

I am just browsing net and downlaod movie and watch movie straight up from HTPC. No gaming at all.

If that's all you're doing, then a low end system is perfectly acceptable. That E7500 will be wasted just browsing the web and watching movies. Save $50 and go with a E5300.
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post #10013 of 19149 Old 09-21-2009, 12:05 AM
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I finally got my HTPC all set up and am very glad I went with a 4670. I noticed the display on my receiver (Pioneer SC-05) indicates it is a PCM source. I'm assuming this is normal?

In any event, I'm looking for some recommendations on interfaces. I've played around with hulu's desktop for a while. I've jumped into media center (vista 64) and the netflix option in there is pretty cool. I was curious if anyone has any experience with Boxee and if so, do they like / dislike it? There a big difference between that and hulu?
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post #10014 of 19149 Old 09-21-2009, 03:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tijs_Verwest View Post

But in the end which is better ? sorry but i really wanna know , and are these processors way superior to an overclocked atom 330 @ 2.0 ghz?

As for video playback (SD and HD, DXVA on or off), either one is good. CPU usage of Athlon II X2 245 is slightly lower than E5300 because of higher clock, but there is zero difference in picture quality. An Intel system generally consumes less power at video playback, the difference is only 5-10W at most. You'd better choose the platform considering the total system performance/price, not just CPU.

Atom does not have enough power if DXVA is off.
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post #10015 of 19149 Old 09-21-2009, 04:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mayest View Post

I found that the Sapphire 4670 that I bought has a very loud fan to my ears.

There are two different coolers in Sapphire HD 4670 cards. In general the 1-slot version is loud and the Arctic Cooling cooler 2-slot version is very quiet. So need to be careful which version is in question.
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post #10016 of 19149 Old 09-21-2009, 04:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MomboX View Post

Random question has anyone had to buy a HDMI switcher? I am thinking I will probably need one soon and would like one my Harmony 880 can control. Need probably 3-5 ports.

Onkyo 805 has 4 HDMI IN ports. Do you need more?
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post #10017 of 19149 Old 09-21-2009, 04:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LeftFootRed View Post

Rene,

I'm looking at the DG45ID in place of the P5Q-EM on the midrange mAtx build. This is based on a recent, very favorable review that the teething issues on the intel board seem to be resolved. Since the ability to do any gaming is far secondary to video playback quality for me, I wonder if I should also forgo the discreet graphics on the recommended build. Any thoughts?

I can't post links yet but the article is on MissingRemote (published two weeks ago).

Thank you

I am not sure of the recent status of the G45 driver (let alone the DG45ID issues). Try yourself. You can add a discrete card anytime later.
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post #10018 of 19149 Old 09-21-2009, 04:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mingus View Post

How do you get most of your h.264 (.mkv) files to display subtitles? using Windows 7 RTM. VSfilter and Radlight Filter Manager?

Which player are you using? DXVA+subtitles is supported only by MPC HomeCinema and MediaPortal.
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post #10019 of 19149 Old 09-21-2009, 04:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by vinha916 View Post

hi renethx,

I am gonna build as your midrange but exclude the graphic card and using onboard for HDMI. The reason for that is I am just browsing net and downlaod movie and watch movie straight up from HTPC. No gaming at all. What do you think?

Good.
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post #10020 of 19149 Old 09-21-2009, 04:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tlguapo View Post

I finally got my HTPC all set up and am very glad I went with a 4670. I noticed the display on my receiver (Pioneer SC-05) indicates it is a PCM source. I'm assuming this is normal?

What "PCM" means depends on each receiver. Try to play this 8 Channel test files. If you hear sounds from all of your speakers (one by one), then your system is configured fine.
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