Guide to Building a HTPC, Workstation and Server - Page 73 - AVS Forum
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Home Theater Computers > Guide to Building a HTPC, Workstation and Server
AbMagFab's Avatar AbMagFab 06:58 AM 06-05-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibael View Post

AnyDVD doesn't remove the AACS encryption while you're playing it realtime. Most likely the bit of overhead the CPU has to spend on the decryption, added to the H.264 decode, is what is putting you over the edge into Choppyville.

Yes it does. It removes the AACS (including BD+) whenever it sees it, whether it's a mounted ISO with AACS, or a physical disc with AACS.

However I agree it's unlikely this has any impact on CPU utilization.

archibael's Avatar archibael 10:02 AM 06-05-2008
When you save to hard drive, the AACS encryption is gone because AnyDVD HD removes it permanently.

When you read it from the disc realtime, the AACS is decrypted, not removed (because you don't modify the original disk), which eats CPU cycles-- cycles which are not eaten when you use the files from hard drive which have AACS permanently removed.
CADOBHuK's Avatar CADOBHuK 03:50 PM 06-05-2008
Copying it on the hard drive made it stutter a lot less. It wasnt a slide show any more, but still had hickkups every 3 seconds or so. Then I changed power dvd priority to "above normal" and it played smoothly except a few stutters throughout the whole movie. That was the "Sleugh" with Jude Law. "Flying Daggers" plays smoothly right from the blu-ray disk, for some reason. "Planet Earth" stutters just like Sleugh.
anywhereanytime's Avatar anywhereanytime 05:35 PM 06-05-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

AMD: GeForce 8200/GeForce 8300 (formerly 9200), codenamed MCP78

Intel: GeForce 8200/GeForce 9200, codenamed MCP7A. Summary of MCP7A is MCP79/MCP7A and NVIDIA MCP7A Line-Up; Hybrid SLI For Intel. Expected in April. The CPU chart at NVIDIA site does not include MCP7A yet (as it is not officially released yet).

I expect Wolfdale (and Yorkfield)/MCP7A to be the best chip/chipset for HTPC and gaming. MCP78 is OK, but AMD chips are very weak right now.

Renethx - this conversation was from back in March ... we are only interested in the Intel progression ... any update, like great news on AVAILABILITY ???
AbMagFab's Avatar AbMagFab 06:03 PM 06-05-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibael View Post

When you save to hard drive, the AACS encryption is gone because AnyDVD HD removes it permanently.

When you read it from the disc realtime, the AACS is decrypted, not removed (because you don't modify the original disk), which eats CPU cycles-- cycles which are not eaten when you use the files from hard drive which have AACS permanently removed.

Wrong.

Not if you don't do it that way. You can save to the hard drive with AACS, then on playback use AnyDVD HD to remove it.

This is actually the safer way, since SlySoft is regularly updating their software, and you won't have to re-rip anything later.
AbMagFab's Avatar AbMagFab 06:03 PM 06-05-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by CADOBHuK View Post

Copying it on the hard drive made it stutter a lot less. It wasnt a slide show any more, but still had hickkups every 3 seconds or so. Then I changed power dvd priority to "above normal" and it played smoothly except a few stutters throughout the whole movie. That was the "Sleugh" with Jude Law. "Flying Daggers" plays smoothly right from the blu-ray disk, for some reason. "Planet Earth" stutters just like Sleugh.

Have you tried changing your Power settings in Windows to "High Performance"?
archibael's Avatar archibael 06:19 PM 06-05-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

Wrong.

Not if you don't do it that way. You can save to the hard drive with AACS, then on playback use AnyDVD HD to remove it.

This is actually the safer way, since SlySoft is regularly updating their software, and you won't have to re-rip anything later.

[shrug] I've only ever seen it done that way. I'm aware that you can rip it with the AACS intact, but in that case you're still relying on a piece of software (which eats CPU power) to decrypt real time. Don't know why you'd have to re-rip just because AnyDVD HD was upgraded: once you've ripped, the data's in the clear.

In any case, my point was that if the original poster is running from hard drive, he might have AACS already removed and use no extra CPU, whereas when it's on disk you are 100% certain he is decrypting realtime and that could mean the difference between smooth and choppy playback.
renethx's Avatar renethx 06:36 PM 06-05-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by anywhereanytime View Post

Renethx - this conversation was from back in March ... we are only interested in the Intel progression ... any update, like great news on AVAILABILITY ???

OCWorkBench - Computex 2008 MCP7A B1 stepping delivers this weekend (May 12, 2008)

Quote:


On May 16, NVIDIA will deliver its B1 stepping sample of its long delayed MCP7A chipset. This product shall be one of the highlights at the Computex 2008 show in June.

From what we gathered, static boards would be shown as it is said that there are still issues like ram compatibility is still a problem on the current revisions of the chipset.

It is also known that actual production of the chipset will be at the end of June. Thus, we wouldn't be seeing the final MCP7A products at least until late June or July onwards.

The MCP7A is the most powerful IGP for the Intel platform (in comparison with Intel G35).

OCWorkBench - Computex 2008 Manufacturer shy away from NVIDIA MCP7A (May 27, 2008)

Quote:


Although MCP7A is a highly anticipated chipset with the best IGP performance, a number of manufacturers have told OCWorkbench that they're concentrating on the discrete chipset P43, P45 and G45 instead of the MCP7A.

They claimed that they were disappointed by the performance of MCP73 which features an IGP with a single channel DDR. Furthermore, ram compatibility is an issue with the earlier chipset. They don't seem to be confident that the MCP7A will get all these problems resolved in time.

There are also some manufacturers that have them ready for display at Computex Taipei 2008 though. Maybe we will see running demos of the new boards based on the MCP7A chipset.

OCWorkBench - Computex 2008 NVIDIA plans MCP 80 series (May 11, 2008) (This is a chipset for the upcoming Nehalem processor.)

Quote:


With more integrated chipsets being made for the new AMD and Intel processors, NVIDIA is also ready to challenge the two giants with their MCP 80 series of Integrated chipsets.

Currently there aren't much detail information of the upcoming MCP 80 series. We expect it to be for new architectures that feature INTEL CPU with an integrated memory controller built in. MCP 80 series should support technologies like PureVideo and hybrid SLI.

We will post more information when we get them.

An abit MCP7A motherboard IN7AG at COMPUTEX 2008 (June 3-7):




renethx's Avatar renethx 08:12 PM 06-05-2008
-- Award Winning GA-EP45-DQ6 and GA-EP45-DS5 -- 2008/06/03


Quote:


Taipei, Taiwan, June 03, 2008 - GIGABYTE UNITED INC., a leading manufacturer of motherboards and graphics cards is proud to announce its GA-EP45-DQ6 and GA-EP45-DS5 motherboards have both won a "Best Choice of COMPUTEX TAIPEI 2008 Award", an award recognized and given by an evaluation committee comprised of experts from the industry, academia, media, and government.

My prediction was correct.
AbMagFab's Avatar AbMagFab 05:37 AM 06-06-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibael View Post

[shrug] I've only ever seen it done that way. I'm aware that you can rip it with the AACS intact, but in that case you're still relying on a piece of software (which eats CPU power) to decrypt real time. Don't know why you'd have to re-rip just because AnyDVD HD was upgraded: once you've ripped, the data's in the clear.

In any case, my point was that if the original poster is running from hard drive, he might have AACS already removed and use no extra CPU, whereas when it's on disk you are 100% certain he is decrypting realtime and that could mean the difference between smooth and choppy playback.

Because all AnyDVD does is remove encryption, and about half the bugs are about introducing errors as part of it. You'd arguably have to re-rip everything with the fixed AnyDVD HD each time they fixed a bug to be sure you weren't effected by it.

The accepted best method at this point is to rip with the encryption intact, and play with AnyDVD HD.

And we just all agreed above that the "real-time" AACS removal is hardly a CPU load.
lakaw's Avatar lakaw 05:50 AM 06-06-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

Because all AnyDVD does is remove encryption, and about half the bugs are about introducing errors as part of it. You'd arguably have to re-rip everything with the fixed AnyDVD HD each time they fixed a bug to be sure you weren't effected by it.

The accepted best method at this point is to rip with the encryption intact, and play with AnyDVD HD.

And we just all agreed above that the "real-time" AACS removal is hardly a CPU load.

While this may be true, I've NEVER had to re-rip anything after an AvyDvd update over the past 3 years. And we know Slysoft likes to update...
AbMagFab's Avatar AbMagFab 05:59 AM 06-06-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakaw View Post

While this may be true, I've NEVER had to re-rip anything after an AvyDvd update over the past 3 years. And we know Slysoft likes to update...

Did you rip Ratattaoui (sp?)? That was one that just recently had video and audio hic-cups because of bugs in AnyDVD, that got fixed with an update. And that's just off the top of my head, there are dozens of others.

Unless you're watching everything after every update, you frankly don't know what would require a re-rip.

And the point is, the better approach is to eliminate the need for re-rips by ripping wih encryption intact. There's no negative (CPU load is negligible), and only positive. It's the documented best way to rip.
lakaw's Avatar lakaw 06:11 AM 06-06-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

Did you rip Ratattaoui (sp?)? That was one that just recently had video and audio hic-cups because of bugs in AnyDVD, that got fixed with an update. And that's just off the top of my head, there are dozens of others.

Unless you're watching everything after every update, you frankly don't know what would require a re-rip.

And the point is, the better approach is to eliminate the need for re-rips by ripping wih encryption intact. There's no negative (CPU load is negligible), and only positive. It's the documented best way to rip.

I did rip Ratatouille. I'm pretty sure my son has watched it without complaining. He always tells me if his DVD's are skipping. I'll check this weekend.
Hunter Audio's Avatar Hunter Audio 08:17 AM 06-06-2008
Hi

I am building my demo system and require some advise , I have bought a HD 3850 - 512 mb (DDR 3) , 256 bit ; Graphic card .

I would like to know wether this card offloads the decoding from the processor - and - if not

what will be the minmum cpu config requirement

thanks ,
Suranjan

" You must be the change you wish to see in the world " - Mahatma Gandhi
bigbangtheory's Avatar bigbangtheory 09:23 AM 06-06-2008
Hopefully, I am not being repetitive here but on the topic of HTPCs, anyone heard anything about motherboards with HD a/v decoding capability built in? Thanks!
archibael's Avatar archibael 10:01 AM 06-06-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

And we just all agreed above that the "real-time" AACS removal is hardly a CPU load.

"We" did? I saw your assertion and no one else discussing it.

I've seen no evidence that the realtime decryption is as benign to CPU load as you think, but it doesn't matter, in the big scheme of things, so I'll stop arguing the point.
AbMagFab's Avatar AbMagFab 10:11 AM 06-06-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibael View Post

"We" did? I saw your assertion and no one else discussing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by archibael View Post

...Most likely the bit of overhead the CPU has to spend on the decryption...

You did, yes. "Bit of overhead" sure sounds to me like it's benign. Perhaps it's just your use of the language or something, but that's all I have to go on.

And it's pretty easy to test anyway (I did), and the real-time decryption adds no measurable CPU load, at least on my CPU tests (previously 6750, now a 9300).
rubell's Avatar rubell 12:51 PM 06-06-2008
So I want a Mobo with a digital coax out on it, and the GA-M78SM-S2H seems to fit the bill.

I'm not very concerned with audio (long story but it's a very limited audio set up and don't feel like getting a converter), but will be playing BluRay movies on it. From what I've read I can't tell which chip is better for HD offloading, but it seems there are people on both sides of the camp.

Besides having a coax instead of an optical out, what makes it different than the GA-MA78GM-S2H for my needs?

I've searched and read, but can't seem to find the answer.
cybrsage's Avatar cybrsage 01:09 PM 06-06-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbangtheory View Post

Hopefully, I am not being repetitive here but on the topic of HTPCs, anyone heard anything about motherboards with HD a/v decoding capability built in? Thanks!

The 8200 boards have it.

I recommend the Biostar TF8200 A2+ if you want a full sized board.
Ewingr's Avatar Ewingr 02:34 PM 06-06-2008
I have an older HTPC that I am going to replace. It has this 300 W power supply. I'm wondering if I can continue to use this PS.

ZALMAN ZM300A-APF 300W ATX Power Supply 100 - 240 V CB, CE, FCC

I'm not loading the unit up with drives or cards. Well, here's what I"m thinking of so far:

There's a couple fans in the case. I don't remember what they are.

Oh, I do have a MyHD MDP-120 Tuner. As that I have it I may drop it in, but I don't watch through it much, so not necessary. Not sure it will work on Vista yet.

My main purpose for it is for DVD Ripping/Watching, and Playing Music.

Any thought on the Power Supply is appreciated. Also, if any thoughts about this not being strong enough to SMOOTHLY play HD Video, please let me know.

Thanks
anywhereanytime's Avatar anywhereanytime 03:22 PM 06-06-2008
[quote=renethx;14023553]OCWorkBench - Computex 2008 MCP7A B1 stepping delivers this weekend (May 12, 2008)



OCWorkBench - Computex 2008 Manufacturer shy away from NVIDIA MCP7A (May 27, 2008)



OCWorkBench - Computex 2008 NVIDIA plans MCP 80 series (May 11, 2008) (This is a chipset for the upcoming Nehalem processor.)



An abit MCP7A motherboard IN7AG at COMPUTEX 2008 (June 3-7):

QUOTE]

Bummer ... so, what is now the BEST shipping/soon to be shipping mATX board with Intel and IGP ??
redjr's Avatar redjr 04:25 PM 06-06-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewingr View Post

I have an older HTPC that I am going to replace. It has this 300 W power supply. I'm wondering if I can continue to use this PS.

ZALMAN ZM300A-APF 300W ATX Power Supply 100 - 240 V CB, CE, FCC

I'm not loading the unit up with drives or cards. Well, here's what I"m thinking of so far:

There's a couple fans in the case. I don't remember what they are.

Oh, I do have a MyHD MDP-120 Tuner. As that I have it I may drop it in, but I don't watch through it much, so not necessary. Not sure it will work on Vista yet.

My main purpose for it is for DVD Ripping/Watching, and Playing Music.

Any thought on the Power Supply is appreciated. Also, if any thoughts about this not being strong enough to SMOOTHLY play HD Video, please let me know.

Thanks

I'd get a newer PS with more wattage > ~550watts. Strange things happen to PCs when they can't get enough juice and they're often difficult to troubleshoot. It's always better to have more watts, than not enough. Antec offers several models at reasonable prices. Check out Newegg
renethx's Avatar renethx 06:10 PM 06-06-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter Audio View Post

I am building my demo system and require some advise , I have bought a HD 3850 - 512 mb (DDR 3) , 256 bit ; Graphic card .

I would like to know wether this card offloads the decoding from the processor - and - if not

what will be the minmum cpu config requirement?

Yes, the card offloads from CPU. Hence a relatively cheap CPU is enough. Athlon X2 2.0GHz or higher or Intel Pentium Dual-Core/Core 2 Duo 2.0GHz or higher is good enough as long as hardware accleration (HA) works. In case HA does not work (as in many mkv files), 2.4GHz or higher may be necessary.
renethx's Avatar renethx 06:14 PM 06-06-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbangtheory View Post

Hopefully, I am not being repetitive here but on the topic of HTPCs, anyone heard anything about motherboards with HD a/v decoding capability built in? Thanks!

Besides GeForce 8200, AMD 780G motherboard is recommended such as GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-S2H. The main difference between GeForce 8200 and AMD 780G is that the former supports multichannel LPCM/AC3/DTS HDMI audio, while the latter is limited to 2-channel LPCM/AC3/DTS HDMI audio.
renethx's Avatar renethx 06:30 PM 06-06-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubell View Post

So I want a Mobo with a digital coax out on it, and the GA-M78SM-S2H seems to fit the bill.

I'm not very concerned with audio (long story but it's a very limited audio set up and don't feel like getting a converter), but will be playing BluRay movies on it. From what I've read I can't tell which chip is better for HD offloading, but it seems there are people on both sides of the camp.

Besides having a coax instead of an optical out, what makes it different than the GA-MA78GM-S2H for my needs?

I've searched and read, but can't seem to find the answer.

If you use a coaxial S/PDIF, then you shouldn't be bothered with a coaxial port in the mb rear panel because almost every mb has an internal S/PDIF connector and building a coaxial S/PDIF bracket yourself is cheap ($6) and easy. Read Build a Coaxial S/PDIF Bracket Yourself.

Currently there are two chipsets that has an IGP good enough for playing back BD movies with a decent CPU: GeForce 8200 and AMD 780G. Either chipset is good for your purpose.
renethx's Avatar renethx 06:40 PM 06-06-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewingr View Post

I have an older HTPC that I am going to replace. It has this 300 W power supply. I'm wondering if I can continue to use this PS.

ZALMAN ZM300A-APF 300W ATX Power Supply 100 - 240 V CB, CE, FCC

IMO the PSU is good for your new system. A typical power consumption of the system when playing back BD movies is < 150W and even under heavy loads, it will rarely go beyond 200W. 15A@12V is a bit weak, though.
AbMagFab's Avatar AbMagFab 07:06 PM 06-06-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbangtheory View Post

Hopefully, I am not being repetitive here but on the topic of HTPCs, anyone heard anything about motherboards with HD a/v decoding capability built in? Thanks!

For HD audio and video, you only have two options right now:

Intel - The G35
AMD - The 8200

The G35 has been out a lot longer, and works great. The 8200 is finally getting the bugs worked out and seems to be working, but the AMD CPU chipset and configuration can be confusing if you're not already familiar with AMD (e.g. not all Phenom's will work, and there are some very specific configurations it looks like you need to make to get things to work).

Check out the G35 and 8200 threads to see specifics.

In the not-too-distant future (i.e. likely Q4 this year), you'll have more options:

1) ASUS Xonar - HDMI audio card with HDMI video passthrough - allows you to use any mobo, and any HDMI gfx card, and get HDMI 1.3a HD audio + video. To me, this looks to be the best longer-term solution as you can buy the specific components for each piece however you want.

2) Intel G45 - An HDMI 1.3a upgrade to the G35, with improved performance.

3) Intel/AMD 8300 - An improvement to the 8200, and with Intel CPU support.

4) Radeo 4850 - A Video card with HDMI audio. Better than IGP, since you can use any MB you want, but your stuck with one card for audio and video, so not as good as the Xonar solution.

Anyway, that's the potential future, and who knows when it will arrive. Right now, pick your CPU, and then you pretty much have one choice if you want HD video and HD audio.
Briands's Avatar Briands 10:55 PM 06-06-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

Did you rip Ratattaoui (sp?)? That was one that just recently had video and audio hic-cups because of bugs in AnyDVD, that got fixed with an update. And that's just off the top of my head, there are dozens of others.

Unless you're watching everything after every update, you frankly don't know what would require a re-rip.

And the point is, the better approach is to eliminate the need for re-rips by ripping wih encryption intact. There's no negative (CPU load is negligible), and only positive. It's the documented best way to rip.

Unless you want to watch the files on other devices or on multiple machines without a license for AnyDVD on each machine...
Hunter Audio's Avatar Hunter Audio 09:35 AM 06-07-2008
Thanks - Renethx ,

Suranjan
Hunter Audio's Avatar Hunter Audio 09:52 AM 06-07-2008
Hi ,

Upon assembling a type 3 Hi-End HTPC ; I would like to scale low quality Tv or Vedio signals to HDTV standard or atleast to a signal quality suitable for a 42 inch display - something similar to the Bravia engine ,

A detailed procedure may be lengthy or have been discussed elsewhere a link would get me started ,

I could read up if there are software recommendations and a guide for enriching incoming vedio signals - realtime

thanks
Suranjan
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