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post #91 of 1290 Old 12-20-2007, 03:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F4ion1 View Post

Tried that DTD and it showed the same way as when I manually created it. The size looks correct but it is too high and too far to the left(I'm beginning to think somebody doesn't want me to have a HD HTPC). I've got the Dell hooked up now with DTD running, trying to see if there is a way I can just export the exact hex of the DTD that it is running then paste that hex on the Macbook and create the DTD. Sounds simple but I can't find anywhere in DTD calculator to read the DTD that is currently showing, don't even know if that's possible.

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Huh. Yeah, don't think the Dell will have the DTD anywhere except in memory, perhaps... and I don't even know where to tell you to look.

That hex should have worked... don't know why it's not doing so, other than that evil MacBIOS is interfering.

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post #92 of 1290 Old 12-20-2007, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archibael View Post

Huh. Yeah, don't think the Dell will have the DTD anywhere except in memory, perhaps... and I don't even know where to tell you to look.

That hex should have worked... don't know why it's not doing so, other than that evil MacBIOS is interfering.

I hear ya. I'll keep messing with it and see what I can come up with.

Thanks a bunch for all the help though.
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post #93 of 1290 Old 12-20-2007, 05:50 PM
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Hi F4ion1,

Just out of interest have you tried adjusting around the 1080i timings to see what happens?

Also, avoid odd numbered Vertical Pixel counts. Not that this is the problem with the current test DTD but I noticed in the report you posted that the current timing was 1198 by 665.

One final thing. The two reports also show two different driver builds (1364 and 1253). Again, I don't know why it would have an impact but it might be worth updating the dell drivers just to see if it breaks anything (having created a restore point obviously ).

Cheers,

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post #94 of 1290 Old 12-26-2007, 03:46 PM
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To: archibael,

I just received an Asus P5E-VM HDMI from my very nice girlfriend. This will be my first build with an Intel IGP. I've been using an older Radeon with powerstrip to switch between 60Hz (for HDTV) and 48Hz (for DVD's). I understand Powerstrip won't work properly with IGPs. Thus the topic of this thread.

I use XP Pro. My HTPC outputs via DVI to my Optoma HD70 projector. I have no under/overscan issues. Everything is 1:1 pixel perfect without tweaking. I use powerstrip purely for the custom refresh rates.

My question is this: using the applications and techniques you're describing here, will I be able to add a 1280x720, 48Hz timing to the registry and then just switch between them using the built-in windows display properties dialog box (r-clicking the desktop, etc.)? This would be freaking awesome! I don't mind powerstrip, but I'd rather not use it if I can get by without it.

EDIT: I should add, the HD70 projector does NOT report 48Hz to Windows. Powerstrip forces 48Hz, and the projector syncs to it. Don't know if this is important...

Thanks,
Jay
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post #95 of 1290 Old 12-26-2007, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes.

Can you get a copy of the 48Hz timings you used with Powerstrip on the Radeon? You should be able to program them in to DTDCalculator (I like the Modeline format, but if you can't figure out how to convert them post them here and someone'll guide you through it) and have them added to the registry... at which point you can switch to them using the Display Properties dialog or ResChange.

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post #96 of 1290 Old 12-27-2007, 06:47 AM
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Yes - powerstrip can export modeline info. I've done this to get Ubuntu working properly with the projector. I can't actually start this build until I have a few other components (namely ddr2 ram - should be here early next week). But this is all very exciting.

Thanks for the quick response,
Jay
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post #97 of 1290 Old 12-27-2007, 07:03 AM
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archibael,

Here's the powerstrip dump:

Code:
PowerStrip timing parameters:
1280x720=1280,112,40,216,720,5,5,20,59329,2304

Generic timing details for 1280x720:
HFP=112 HSW=40 HBP=216 kHz=36 VFP=5 VSW=5 VBP=20 Hz=48

VESA detailed timing:
PClk=59.33 H.Active=1280 H.Blank=368 H.Offset=96 HSW=40 V.Active=720 V.Blank=30 V.Offset=5 VSW=5

Linux modeline parameters:
"1280x720" 59.329 1280 1392 1432 1648 720 725 730 750 +hsync +vsync
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post #98 of 1290 Old 12-27-2007, 09:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_S View Post

archibael,

Here's the powerstrip dump:

Code:
PowerStrip timing parameters:
1280x720=1280,112,40,216,720,5,5,20,59329,2304

Generic timing details for 1280x720:
HFP=112 HSW=40 HBP=216 kHz=36 VFP=5 VSW=5 VBP=20 Hz=48

VESA detailed timing:
PClk=59.33 H.Active=1280 H.Blank=368 H.Offset=96 HSW=40 V.Active=720 V.Blank=30 V.Offset=5 VSW=5

Linux modeline parameters:
"1280x720" 59.329 1280 1392 1432 1648 720 725 730 750 +hsync +vsync

DTD for 1280x720x48Hz:

2D 17 00 70 51 D0 1E 20 70 28 55 00 00 00 00 00 00 1E

It's a fractional pixel clock, which is somewhat unfriendly. If that doesn't work, try the slightly different:

2c 17 00 70 51 D0 1E 20 70 28 55 00 00 00 00 00 00 1E

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post #99 of 1290 Old 12-28-2007, 06:31 AM
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archibael,

You rock. I can't implement any of this until next Thursday. Apparently UPS 3-day means 3 + 2 (for new year's eve and new year's day).

Thanks again,
Jay
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post #100 of 1290 Old 12-28-2007, 06:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Let me know how it works out. Folks are seeing stutter at 24Hz on certain monitor and monitor/receiver combinations, so I'd be interested in how you do at 48Hz.

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post #101 of 1290 Old 12-29-2007, 09:17 PM
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Archibael,

First of all, I'd like to express my sincere gratitude for your post on how to correct overscan, for the first time in literally few months since I got my slick little PC, I can sit back and enjoy a real movie played from the htpc, full screen and using the correct resolution! Thank you so much for taking the time to share your knowledge and give back to the community, thank you, thank you, thank you...

I have started in Vista a few months back, had never ending resolution issues with the Intel drivers available back then, and the best I could do is settling for a very odd resolution with everything showing inside a nice black frame on my TV. I obviously grew irritated by this very quickly (not to mention the risks of burn-in on my Plasma TV), add to that various Vista bugs, misbehaviors and sheer Windows annoyances in Media Center, I decided to ditch Windows altogether and jump into a Linux distro with integrated MythTV, I picked MythDora 4.0 which I installed and started working on... The idea for going Linux was that I'd be more likely to find ways to customize resolution, but also to check out what the MythTV hype is all about...

While the graphics are mouth drooling and the overall look and feel was absolutely fantastic, not to mention the kickass functionality & features, I soon hit a brick wall yet again with resolution issues (but of course many others which are typical noob headbanging issues such as LIRC, etc). To start with, my graphic card was not recognized and simply came up as generic which limits what I could do. After spending a LOT of time googling away and chewing on many forums and newsgroups, I figured that to even hope getting somewhere I had to recompile the kernel, recompile X server and only then be able to install and compile the needed Intel 2.2.0 driver which fixes some issues specific to my H/W. Nevertheless, I embarked into this and after hours and hours, days and days of headscratching and battling to set myself free in the Fedora dependency hell , I had to admit to myself that I have gone to a place which is a out of my league and way beyond my modest and rusty Linux knowledge, though it was both a refreshing and very frustrating experience, I had to... alas... go back to Windows.

My H/W is as follows:

AOpen MiniPC MP965-DR (same as Ryan1!)
Intel T7500 CPU
Graphics GM965 (GMA 3100X)
GMA driver: 7.14.10.1364

My TV is a Pioneer PDP-507XG [www (dot) pioneer (dot) com (dot) sg/storefront/brochure/7GPDP.pdf] The input signals supported through the 2 HDMI ports (3 & 4) which are HDMI 1.1 and HDCP 1.1 compliant are:

24Hz 1080p
50Hz 720p / 1080i / 576p / 576i
60Hz 720p / 1080i / 480p / 480i

The screen resolutions supported are:
HDTV 720p
1280 x 720
1366 x 768
HDTV 1080p
1920 x 1080

This spits out the following EDID:

EDID BYTES:
0x 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0A 0B 0C 0D 0E 0F
------------------------------------------------
00 | 00 FF FF FF FF FF FF 00 41 2F A6 00 01 01 01 01
10 | 00 10 01 03 80 60 36 78 2A D7 B3 AE 51 50 94 23
20 | 0C 4A 47 00 00 00 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01
30 | 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 1D 80 D0 72 1C 16 20 10 2C
40 | 25 80 B8 18 32 00 00 9E 01 1D 80 18 71 1C 16 20
50 | 58 2C 25 00 B8 18 32 00 00 9E 00 00 00 FD 00 17
60 | 3D 0F 2E 08 00 0A 20 20 20 20 20 20 00 00 00 FC
70 | 00 50 44 50 2D 78 78 37 47 0A 20 20 20 20 01 08

It is rather unclear from the documentation what the "native reolution" is for this TV, however, basing on its EDID and following the steps detailed in your wiki and DTD Calculator howto, I started off with DTD 01 1D 80 D0 72 1C 16 20 10 2C 25 80 B8 18 32 00 00 9E and end up with a setting (after fine tuning the overscan) of 1824 x 1026 (25Hz).

I just have two questions I hope you can advise on:

1) Based on the EDID above and the datasheet on the URL I provided, what would you say is the native rez I should be shooting for? At the moment, I really have movies playing FULL SCREEN (i.e. no side bars and no top/bottom bars!), which this looks great for HD video playback, it does look a little odd for SD video, not sure what it is (stretching? cropping? dunno...)

2) In your Wiki, you mention the following:

"Typically, the DTD is in the first Descriptor Block, but it can be in any of the four. You can tell if the data is a DTD or not because the first two bytes will be nonzero. In some cases, there may be more than one DTD listed because the monitor manufacturer has chosen to provide detailed timings for other modes-- possibly because they have an in-line scaler which works best with specific input timings. Consider all of these for your use, but the most important one for our purposes is the one which matches the native resolution of your display. In most cases (as in the example given), that will be the only one provided. If there are more than one, the best way to decide which to use, if you know what your monitor's native resolution is supposed to be, is to do a brief decode of the DTD parameters"

I'm little confused with this statement: If the EDID contains multiple DTDs, how to find the others? i.e. Ok, I can pick up the first one starting byte 54 and worth 18 bytes, but where are the others?


Many thanks again Archibael for your help.
A final word of kudos for WoOzy and the Clever Tech team for pulling our tormented souls out of trouble, respect!

And BTW, sorry for the long post and thanks for reading this far!

Cheers,
Moonray
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post #102 of 1290 Old 12-30-2007, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonray View Post

Archibael,

24Hz 1080p
50Hz 720p / 1080i / 576p / 576i
60Hz 720p / 1080i / 480p / 480i

The screen resolutions supported are:
HDTV 720p
1280 x 720
1366 x 768
HDTV 1080p
1920 x 1080

This spits out the following EDID:

EDID BYTES:
0x 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0A 0B 0C 0D 0E 0F
------------------------------------------------
00 | 00 FF FF FF FF FF FF 00 41 2F A6 00 01 01 01 01
10 | 00 10 01 03 80 60 36 78 2A D7 B3 AE 51 50 94 23
20 | 0C 4A 47 00 00 00 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01
30 | 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 1D 80 D0 72 1C 16 20 10 2C
40 | 25 80 B8 18 32 00 00 9E 01 1D 80 18 71 1C 16 20
50 | 58 2C 25 00 B8 18 32 00 00 9E 00 00 00 FD 00 17
60 | 3D 0F 2E 08 00 0A 20 20 20 20 20 20 00 00 00 FC
70 | 00 50 44 50 2D 78 78 37 47 0A 20 20 20 20 01 08

There should be a second EDID block over HDMI which will contain more modes of resolution. Is it not showing up when you do Intel Graphics Tray, click Information, and choose Save to Disk?

Quote:


1) Based on the EDID above and the datasheet on the URL I provided, what would you say is the native rez I should be shooting for? At the moment, I really have movies playing FULL SCREEN (i.e. no side bars and no top/bottom bars!), which this looks great for HD video playback, it does look a little odd for SD video, not sure what it is (stretching? cropping? dunno...)

I'd strive for the native 1365x768p with the caveat that even though that is the native resolution, some HDMI receivers won't accept it over that interface (they scale everything which comes in). Barring that, I'd drive 1080p60 or 1080p24 and trust that Pioneer has tweaked their internal scaler to make sure 1080p looks good when scaled to the native.

Quote:


2) In your Wiki, you mention the following:

"Typically, the DTD is in the first Descriptor Block, but it can be in any of the four. You can tell if the data is a DTD or not because the first two bytes will be nonzero. In some cases, there may be more than one DTD listed because the monitor manufacturer has chosen to provide detailed timings for other modes-- possibly because they have an in-line scaler which works best with specific input timings. Consider all of these for your use, but the most important one for our purposes is the one which matches the native resolution of your display. In most cases (as in the example given), that will be the only one provided. If there are more than one, the best way to decide which to use, if you know what your monitor's native resolution is supposed to be, is to do a brief decode of the DTD parameters"

I'm little confused with this statement: If the EDID contains multiple DTDs, how to find the others? i.e. Ok, I can pick up the first one starting byte 54 and worth 18 bytes, but where are the others?

Immediately thereafter. So in this case your DTDs (from the first EDID block only) are

01 1D 80 D0 72 1C 16 20 10 2C 25 80 B8 18 32 00 00 9E
01 1D 80 18 71 1C 16 20 58 2C 25 00 B8 18 32 00 00 9E

Which are 1080i at 50Hz and 60Hz respectively.

I do not speak officially in any sense for
Intel Corp., Technology Manufacturing Group
but I do work there.
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post #103 of 1290 Old 12-30-2007, 12:24 PM
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I really need to use the DTDCalculator, but every time I try to start it I get an application error "The application failed to initialize properly (0xc0000135)" Any one have any ideas?
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post #104 of 1290 Old 12-30-2007, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Do you have .NET Framework 2.0? Pretty sure I saw that error back in the day when I had first tried to install it.

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post #105 of 1290 Old 12-30-2007, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archibael View Post

Do you have .NET Framework 2.0? Pretty sure I saw that error back in the day when I had first tried to install it.

Yep. Definitely a .Net Framework error. If you already have 2.0 installed run Windows Update and make sure you have all the latest patches.

Cheers,

Wo0zy.
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post #106 of 1290 Old 12-30-2007, 06:38 PM
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Just as a general update. The new version of DTD Calc should be ready during January.

It will include the updated modeline.txt with the new timings kindly supplied by Archibael (thanks) and a new tab for deciphering EDID and E-EDID information.

As well as extracting all DTD's from both blocks, the new tab will also report other EDID version 3 data block information including
Short Audio Descriptors (SADs),
Short Video Descriptors (SVDs),
Speaker Allocation Data
and one or two other bits of useful information (hopefully)

This should prove useful for determining the "REPORTED" capabilities of a screen or receiver without having to manually decode the information.

I'll also be in touch with Archibael regarding and update to the "How To" guide so that it includes a couple of "workarounds" to problems that have been discovered recently.

Happy New Year!!

Wo0zy.
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post #107 of 1290 Old 12-30-2007, 08:49 PM
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that got it. With the wiki link dead I'm still at loss on how to use the tool
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post #108 of 1290 Old 12-30-2007, 08:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Try http://softwarecommunity.intel.com/W...aphics/239.htm . It's not as visually stimulating as the original Wiki, but it provides the same information.

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post #109 of 1290 Old 12-31-2007, 08:52 AM
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Thanks for the help, I think I've got it figured out.
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post #110 of 1290 Old 12-31-2007, 10:47 AM
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Help! I am struggling with the new G35 graphics chipset. My old pc connected to my TV through an aging nVidia card and worked flawlessly through a dvi>HDMI connection.

The new PC uses the G35 onboard graphics and connects directly through HDMI at both ends. 50% of the time when the PC restarts everything works perfectly. The other 50% of the time the TV displays a message "over range" and the image becomes stretched leaving the far right side forced off the edge of the screen (roughly from notification area).

By going into intel graphics properties if I change resolutions several times then eventually I can get a non-stretched, normal image. On both occasions the tv reports 1360 x 768 as the resolution size - just 50% of the time accompanied by "over range".

After reading through some of these posts I found that the EDID info is important so I've just copied this information from the report that is produced from the intel utility. I did this for both and it was identical. I've attached the two files to this message.

Thanks for any help you guys can offer.

 

Working.txt 2.5703125k . file

 

Not working.txt 2.5703125k . file
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post #111 of 1290 Old 12-31-2007, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
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EDIDs are looking identical in each case, so that's not the problem.

Hrm. Have you used the DTD Calculator to set your resolutions, or is 1360x768 something that came up "naturally" with the drivers?

If the latter, try using DTD Calculator with

1b 21 50 a0 51 00 1e 30 48 88 35 00 c5 8f 21 00 00 1c

If you've already tried that DTD and it's causing you the problem, I'd tweak the 1st digit up and down one and try again:

1a 21 50 a0 51 00 1e 30 48 88 35 00 c5 8f 21 00 00 1c
1c 21 50 a0 51 00 1e 30 48 88 35 00 c5 8f 21 00 00 1c

Sounds like the Intel drivers are sending the right resolution but your TV isn't always syncing to it, which could just be a clocking mismatch (hence my suggestion to tweak the pixel clock parameter up and down in the above).

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post #112 of 1290 Old 12-31-2007, 11:20 PM
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Thanks so much for your reply. It worked perfectly - I had to tweak it to get it to display as I already had one with that name. I changed it to 1366 x 768 and all is working fine.

When I next do a driver update will I need to do this again or does it stay in registry?

Thanks once again!
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post #113 of 1290 Old 01-01-2008, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Results differ. Some people have it remain, and for some they have to re-apply.

You could always add it to the Modeline.txt file and then it will always be there for DTDCalculator to apply.

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post #114 of 1290 Old 01-01-2008, 12:50 PM
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Thank you so much for your advice! You have solved me a bunch of hassle with the other half.
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post #115 of 1290 Old 01-01-2008, 03:51 PM
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This is just a note that when I used the default 1280x720@60 setting, the image was offset to the left and the left half of the start button was cropped. Ironically enough, the intel graphic drivers offset to the right. I have a g965 chipset and a sanyo z4 (1280x720) lcd projector through vga.
I hadn't read of others with similar issues, maybe they just all knew how to fix it right off, so I wanted to post so others might be helped.
My settings are as follows and it fits on the screen correctly.
74.250 1280 1352 1440 1648 720 725 730 750 (notice the only change is the 1352)
01 1D 00 70 51 D0 1E 20 48 58 55 00 00 00 00 00 00 1E
The only issue that I'm having, now, is there is a vertical band of bold and fuzzy, when looking at text. I'm guessing that this is what people are calling vertical banding, but I'm not sure. It's entirely possible that I need to adjust some other parameters and it may not be perfect 1:1 pixel mapping, but it isn't jacked over to the side.
JJ
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post #116 of 1290 Old 01-01-2008, 08:56 PM
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I've reported in other posts that I get perfectly smooth HD playback (Blu-ray / HD-DVD) from my G33 based Shuttle SG33G5 over HDMI to a Pio Plasma @ 24hz, but we just watched Planet Earth on Blu-ray and ever 17 Sec I get a stutter in the Video. It is only slight (looks like a few frames) and hence only really noticable on the horisontal panning shots but it is as regular as clock work so I now find myself waiting for it which is very annoying! I've not yet tried to use this Utility to try other timings but thought I'd check for ideas of what may be the cause / solution??? I though it may be 23.976 Vs 24 but the maths don't seem right.....

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post #117 of 1290 Old 01-01-2008, 09:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Report it to Intel customer service. Seriously. I can't do this alone. Be as detailed as possible about what makes it happen (sound on/off, driver version, frame rate, etc.). Only if they get a lot of people complaining about this (preferably the OEMs like Shuttle and ASUS and Gigabyte, as IMO Intel's more responsive to the OEMs than to J. Random User) will it get resolved.

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but I do work there.
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post #118 of 1290 Old 01-01-2008, 10:58 PM
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I'm happy to log reports with Intel (and/or Shuttle) - let me know which ones to test for and I'll keep the reports going in...eg:
? Support for HDCP recognition with PowerDVD HD
?
?

To date, I've found that Shuttle is useless - they just send back a stock e-mail saying to rebuild your PC.....not at all handy. My Track Record with Intel has been a bit hit and miss but so far I've had the following over the last 6 months:

1) No Overscan Compensation over HDMI: Intel finally agreed that it could not be done with their util and that "we will tell the marketing people to remove the statement from the web site".
2) Tearning after S3 Sleep mode: Told me to speak to Shuttle (who were no help). I got a "thanks, we will let the right area know" when it turns out that reloading the Video BIOS of wake from S3 causes the problem (turn it off in the BIOS).
3) HDMI Sound Driver Crashes when AV Receiver drops handshake - re-escalated with archibael's suggested wording - waiting to hear back.

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post #119 of 1290 Old 01-02-2008, 08:48 AM
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There should be a second EDID block over HDMI which will contain more modes of resolution. Is it not showing up when you do Intel Graphics Tray, click Information, and choose Save to Disk?


Archibael, sorry, you're right, I missed that, pls see attached the full EDID as reported by the Intel Graphics Tray...

I'd strive for the native 1365x768p with the caveat that even though that is the native resolution, some HDMI receivers won't accept it over that interface (they scale everything which comes in). Barring that, I'd drive 1080p60 or 1080p24 and trust that Pioneer has tweaked their internal scaler to make sure 1080p looks good when scaled to the native.


This is what I suspected, in fact, I got the two pics attached from Pioneer which seem to point indeed towards a 1365x768 XGA rez, however examining the EDID, I'm unable to find a starting DTD I can work with?! At the moment, I've got a custom DTD setup following your procedure at 1824 x 1026 (25Hz), I do feel however it could be better... I don't believe the 1080p60 signal you suggest is supported by this model (as per the spec sheet)...

Immediately thereafter. So in this case your DTDs (from the first EDID block only) are
01 1D 80 D0 72 1C 16 20 10 2C 25 80 B8 18 32 00 00 9E
01 1D 80 18 71 1C 16 20 58 2C 25 00 B8 18 32 00 00 9E
Which are 1080i at 50Hz and 60Hz respectively.


Yes, got it, here's what I could extract

Quote:
DTD1: 01 1d 80 d0 72 1c 16 20 10 2c 25 80 b8 18 32 00 00 9e -> 1080i @50Hz
DTD2: 01 1d 80 18 71 1c 16 20 58 2c 25 00 b8 18 32 00 00 9e -> 1080i @60Hz

DTD3: 8c 0a d0 90 20 40 31 20 0c 40 55 00 b8 18 32 00 00 18 -> 576p @ 50Hz(?)
DTD4: 01 1d 00 bc 52 d0 1e 20 b8 28 55 40 b8 18 32 00 00 1e -> 720p @ 50Hz
DTD5: 8c 0a d0 8a 20 e0 2d 10 10 3e 96 00 b8 18 32 00 00 18 -> 480p @ 60Hz
DTD6: 01 1d 00 72 51 d0 1e 20 6e 28 55 00 b8 18 32 00 00 1e -> 720p @ 60Hz
DTD7: 8c 0a d0 90 20 40 31 20 0c 40 55 00 cb 18 22 00 00 18 -> 576p @ 50Hz
Any recommendations? As it is, I find that the display looks a lot easier for the eyes through the D-SUB interface rather than the DVI...

 

MoonrayDR.txt 2.359375k . file
LL
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post #120 of 1290 Old 01-02-2008, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Report it to Intel customer service. Seriously. I can't do this alone. Be as detailed as possible about what makes it happen (sound on/off, driver version, frame rate, etc.). Only if they get a lot of people complaining about this (preferably the OEMs like Shuttle and ASUS and Gigabyte, as IMO Intel's more responsive to the OEMs than to J. Random User) will it get resolved.

Sorry, when re-reading that it came across as crankier than I actually am/was. I just meant to comment that my ability to get things fixed is limited, and that I believe customer feedback to be a somewhat more effective tool to get these things rectified other than "got another internal email from that weird Archibael guy" "yeah, add it to the pile".

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but I do work there.
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