Slight 1080/24p Stutter ever 17sec on Blu-ray & HD-DVD (Help Needed) - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 50 Old 02-15-2008, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmone View Post

The new setting has the stutter moved out to each 1:30sec, time to play some more!

Play with "Pixel Clock" rather than the blanking interval length(s). Can't remember the full history to this one but it the H & V blanking intervals were originally determined by EDID then pixel clock should give the most flexibility.

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post #32 of 50 Old 02-15-2008, 03:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I'll play with a few options but I thought Pixel Clock was the thing NOT to play with.

On a seperate note, any Intel G33 users getting good, stutter free 24p playback? If so what DTD are you using?

Thanks
Nathan
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post #33 of 50 Old 02-15-2008, 03:24 PM
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You can tweak pixel clock up and down a bit to change the refresh a bit at a time, or mess with the blanking as your ISF guy suggested. The pixel clock is a single-knob, while the blanking has other implications which may screw up other timings. Either will work; the default ones I provide are just what I got out of the EIA-861-B spec.

The pixel clock is driven off a divider of the chipset PLL, and it's possible that an inconsistency would show up when tweaking that which would not show up when merely modifying the blanking on a stable pixel clock setting. It's not a bad idea at all, and if you end up with a good setting please let us know.

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post #34 of 50 Old 02-15-2008, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmone View Post

On a seperate note, any Intel G33 users getting good, stutter free 24p playback? If so what DTD are you using?

pinky2000 claimed that

01 1D 80 40 73 38 2D 40 80 30 45 80 00 00 00 00 00 1E 37 01

eliminated judder for him on the GA-G33M-S2H board. Never heard from him again after that.

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post #35 of 50 Old 02-15-2008, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
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that one looks just like the (EIA/CEA-861B) you have with two extra hex (37 01) at the end - is it not too long?
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post #36 of 50 Old 02-15-2008, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
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I guessing that with the current drivers proper 24p payback is not possible(I'm going to stay with 50Hz for now). I've just played with lots of possible DTD combinations and have found that:

1) If you change the Pixel Clock you get the Graphics Properties showing other frequences (eg 23hz) but you can not select them (defaults to 60hz)

2) You can also increase/decrease the effective frequency by changing the the "H End of Blanking Interval" but I found that
- The Lower the Feq from 24Hz the longer the gap between stutters but the worse each stutter gets. It you push the freq down to far from 24hz then each frame also starts looking odd
- The Higher the Feq from 24hz the shorter the gap between stutters but each stutter is less. You end up with each frame looking odd.

Thanks
Nathan

PS according to the Custom Res Tool, the DTD for 24Hz exactly is:
01 1D 80 3E 73 38 2D 40 80 30 45 80 00 00 00 00 00 1E
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post #37 of 50 Old 02-15-2008, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
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FYI - here is the list of the DTD's I tried, the approx Freq for each and the time frame till the stutter.

24.3542 (constant)
01 1D 80 16 73 38 2D 40 80 30 45 80 00 00 00 00 00 1E

24.2647 (1.5 sec)
01 1D 80 20 73 38 2D 40 80 30 45 80 00 00 00 00 00 1E

24.1404 (3 sec)
01 1D 80 2E 73 38 2D 40 80 30 45 80 00 00 00 00 00 1E

24.0876 (6 sec)
01 1D 80 34 73 38 2D 40 80 30 45 80 00 00 00 00 00 1E

24.0175 (12 Sec)
01 1D 80 3C 73 38 2D 40 80 30 45 80 00 00 00 00 00 1E

24hz (14sec)
01 1D 80 3E 73 38 2D 40 80 30 45 80 00 00 00 00 00 1E

23.9826 (17sec) 1920x1080p@24hz (EIA/CEA-861B)
01 1D 80 40 73 38 2D 40 80 30 45 80 00 00 00 00 00 1E

23.9390 (1:30)
01 1D 80 45 73 38 2D 40 80 30 45 80 00 00 00 00 00 1E

23.9217 (3mins)
01 1D 80 47 73 38 2D 40 80 30 45 80 00 00 00 00 00 1E

23.8698 stutter
01 1D 80 4D 73 38 2D 40 80 30 45 80 00 00 00 00 00 1E
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post #38 of 50 Old 02-15-2008, 09:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Not that I want to seem (too) obsessive but the pattern looked familiar so I plotted it and it seems to be on a log scale. I'm now guessing that the G33 really does 25hz only and tries to just pad out the 24p stuff.


LL
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post #39 of 50 Old 02-16-2008, 03:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Just watched two Blu-ray movies, T1 @ 50hz, and T2 at 60hz. The 60hz setting (while it seems to have some 3:2 pulldown artifacts) is much better. So I'll try 60hz for a while!
Nathan
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post #40 of 50 Old 02-16-2008, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmone View Post

that one looks just like the (EIA/CEA-861B) you have with two extra hex (37 01) at the end - is it not too long?

37 01 needs to be added to the DTD when you manually add it to the registry. DTDCalc does this for you.

Nice graph by the way. There's a fine line between dedication and obsession.

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post #41 of 50 Old 02-16-2008, 06:42 AM
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Can't get perfect 23,976Hz playback from my nvidia 8600GTS or my ATI 3870 either.

Maybe this can be related:
http://forums.entechtaiwan.net/viewt...?p=22625#22625

Also discussed this with another guy in another forum. My concusion after alot of testing:


nvidia 8600gts vs ATI 3870.

The nvidia card have the following refresh rates to choose between in the control panel (latest forceware on vista 32 sp1):

23
24

24 gives 24Hz and 23 gives something around 23,976Hz but not exactly 23,976Hz. As PowerStrip can't be used with the 8000 series I can't really know the exact refresh rate.


I really can't tell exactly how long it is between each stutter. But somewhere between 2 and 3 minutes. The stutters are so tiny I can spot like 2 or 3 during a whole movie.



Th ATI card have just the option 24 in the Catalyst Control Center. And as I can use Powertrip with this card I can see that this option gives 24Hz output.

After some playback tests in Media Player I can see stutters every 42 seconds like a clockwork. And the stutters are very easy to spot.

Now I tested to creat some custom timings with PowerStrip. First I tried out 23,976Hz. I can't see a single stutter with this one. BUT I get tearing in fast moving scenes. So I tried tweaking it in steps of .001 Hz.

23,982Hz gives perfect playback without tearing. But I get stutters about every 3 minutes (same as nvidia)

I looked through all presets in PowerStrip and there is only one for 1080p at ~24Hz called 1080p 24Hz EIA/CEA-816B.

This preset used the exact settings I used to get 23,982Hz



Also gone through this:
http://www.quantumdata.com/support/k...dardTiming.pdf

But it seems like the EIA/CEA-816B standard for 23,976Hz (actually called 23p in this material and also in other material I read through) is exactly 23,976Hz. Don't know why 23,982Hz is used in PowerStrips EIA/CEA-816B preset.



I have no idea why I get tearing when using exactly 23,976Hz. And I have no idea on how to get perfect 23p (as I learned it should be called) playback from my computer...


I have a small idea though. It might be related to a registry value called timestamp and is written by the drivers controlpanel every time you switch refresh rate. When using PowerStrip this value is not updated.

So if I switch from like 50Hz to 23,976Hz using PowerStrip I get jerky playback. But If I use the ATI control panel first to go from 50Hz to 24Hz and then fine tune with PowerStrip. I get 23,976Hz and its not jerky. But the tearing is still there.

I think the timestamp value is read by the renderer (EVR) and as PowerStrip does not write a new timestamp the renderer uses this timestamp value set by ATI CCC. So now we have a perfectly matched refresh rate. But the renderer does not match this refresh rate.

www.earselect.se/pstrip.txt
www.earselect.se/ati.txt

There you can see the diffrence if you are interested...


Also did a fresh install of Vista 32 Ultimate SP1 for a second test with the ATI card. If something was left from the nvida driver that screwed up the result.
But no change...


Sorry for my bad english!

And yes I tweaked the registry for the ATI card and tried Vsync to eliminate the tearing (no luck).



This is driving me insane!
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post #42 of 50 Old 02-18-2008, 12:07 AM
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I'd install XP and run Reclock...

But have you tried the Haali Renderer? It's very smooth on my system even without Reclock. It buffers the video frames using graphics memory (as can Ffdshow).

You'd have to rip all your HD-DVDs and non-BD+ BD's to use it in Zoom Player or MPC.

But if you're going to stick to Vista and Powerdvd....good luck..

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post #43 of 50 Old 03-19-2008, 07:13 AM
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Hi everyone,

Just digging this thread up to see if anyone's had any success in getting perfect 1080p24 playback?

I have an Intel G33 (Shuttle SG33G5M) and Pioneer 1080p plasma (PDP-LX508A)
on Windows Vista Ultimate x86. My source is an h264 encode of an HDDVD that I made at exactly 23.976fps. The best I can get is about 1 minute before the tearing starts using these settings and it doesn't go away
01 1D 80 47 73 38 2D 40 80 30 45 80 00 00 00 00 00 1E
Interestingly using those settings the plasma says 1080p24hz

60hz playback looks OK, but obviously not ideal.

As I side note, does it matter what signal type we use on the Piooner - ie PC vs video, as I notice that in the manual it does not mention 1920x1080x24hz being supported in HDMI PC mode.
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post #44 of 50 Old 03-19-2008, 09:14 AM
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According to this, it's possible to get stutter-free playback in MPC for anything MPC can play. PowerDVD, on the other hand, is still uncooperative.

I do not speak officially in any sense for
Intel Corp., Technology Manufacturing Group
but I do work there.
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post #45 of 50 Old 04-22-2008, 11:02 AM
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I would also like to achieve perfect 24p output with no issues -- including no lip sync.
If I select 24p in the Catalyst control panel, the video looks fine but there are lip sync issues.

Also, Planet Earth is not a good test as it is 30 fps, not 24. I've yet to see a Blu-ray player that could correctly do 2:3 pulldown. Luckily most HD discs are 24fps.

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post #46 of 50 Old 05-02-2008, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmone View Post

Thanks but as I'm on Vista I don't believe that ReClock will work - any other automated way of measuring / syncing the Video?
Thanks
Nathan



I have Vista 32 bit and Reclock works with MPC playing DVD or video files if I add it to the filter list. Also it will pop up when playing DVD with the latest Windvd but not BD/HD.

I have no 24hz display yet but plan to buy one later, probably a projector like Epson TW2000. My question is that for now obviously I don't have a choice of 24hz. Will I see it if I connect to a 24hz capable display? How about 48hz or 72hz? I have Nvidia 8600GS so no tweaks with Powerstrip. I like the smooth playback of Pal 25 frames dvd with 50hz desktop. Hope I can see the same smoothness with 24p Bluray/HDDVD.
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post #47 of 50 Old 05-26-2008, 07:52 AM
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This might help, I had severe stuttering for ages until I set Reclock speed setting to "Original speed" instead of the default "Auto". Reclock seems to prefer changing speed to 24fps instead of 23.976 when on Auto. My Panasonic projector (with Mac Mini running XP) appears to run at 23.976 instead of exactly 24. Not sure I've completely eliminated the stutter but it's pretty close.
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post #48 of 50 Old 05-26-2008, 11:50 AM
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Quote:


if anyone's had any success in getting perfect 1080p24 playback

Yes I have. But , in my experience it is very hardware and software dependent.

My Solution:

Gigabyte EP35C-DS3R mobo IMPORTANT: Disable C.I.A.2
2 MB DDR 1066 memory
Intel Core 2 Duo 6800
Auzentech X-Meridian 7.1 sound card - 8 channel analog out for HD & SPDIF out for DVD
LG GGC-H20L combo BD - HD DVD drive
NVidia 9800GTX video card - 24PsF via HDMI to a Sony Qualia 004
NVidia 175.16_geforce_winvista_32bit_english_whql.exe
PowerDVD8 with HD DVD mods in HW acceleration mode (uses evr)
Theatertek using EVR renderer with ffdshow Lanczos2 and DScaler sharpen

Windows Vista with SP1 IMPORTANT: Turn off all power management and run in performance mode

The result: perfect stutter free 24FPS playback, however it took over a year and much trial and error to achieve it for HD.

Note that Reclock is NOT required with this configuration.

Vern
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post #49 of 50 Old 06-23-2008, 02:55 AM
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Hi guys,

I am quiet fresh to playing with refresh rates according to HDTv so please forgive me few basic questions.

I am crazy about details and I am just mad about even smallest stutters on my screen when I watch HD. I will spent as much time as needed to be sure I did everything what can be done to solve the problem and if not solved I will sell what I got and buy new hardware if needed. That is the way I am no compromise in case of my hobbies.

So basic question first. I got my PC hooked up to 40" Samsung A556p which does not support natively 24p but does 3:2 pull down (I was told it does... nvm I will try to return it, but probably it will be a problem). If it does not support natively 24p can I get smooth 24p playback on it with use of PC - I mean can CPU or GPU correct this issue (so Tv would not have to do 3:2 pull down) in 1080p mode or 1080p24 mode by playing with refresh rates and so on, or all of those works only with sets which support natively 1080p24?

Currently I got AMD x2 (opty165@2,6ghz) and 8800gt and I use PowerDvd codec for HW acceleration on Vista Ultimate 64.

Well I am not asking how to do it - as I can see it is not ease way and there can be no ease answer. I am only asking if advanced (as in topic) refresh rate tweaking is in my case is good direction to go and I can expect some results.

Thanks in advance.

So far this topic gave me best information about subject. When I get home I will start testing and playing with ideas from topic.
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post #50 of 50 Old 06-25-2008, 04:07 AM
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Thanks to jmone my stuttering is pretty much gone, actually it happens every few minutes which is better than every 20 seconds, I previously had, and good enough for me as it's barely noticeable and only if that stutter timing occurs during a pan. I used the entry:

23.9217 (3mins)
01 1D 80 46 73 38 2D 40 80 30 45 80 00 00 00 00 00 1E

That has a slight correction 47 changed to 46. Reclock says the refresh rate is 23.978 which is different to the "23.9217" DTD says - guess that's a problem with the Intel drivers or hardware clock not being accurate. The "23.9826 1920x1080p@24hz (EIA/CEA-861B)" DTD gives over 24.00 fps on my hardware.

Reclock looks to be the most accurate at reporting the refresh rate and that's as close as I can get to 23.976 on the Mac Mini. So I would recommend using Reclock to get the actual frame rate - you need to run it for a few minutes for the figure to be accurate and also use a full frame video playback, not in a window.

By the way, what films are people using to time the stutter? I've tried 10,000 BC which has a lot of panning shots.
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