x264 Encoding Options for Hardware Compatibility & DXVA - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 01-18-2008, 09:15 AM
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According to this thread: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=133851

B-pyramids can be used with the latest x264 builds

Unless ofcourse someone reports a problem with a certain hardware decoder?
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Old 01-20-2008, 12:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo55 View Post

According to this thread: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=133851

B-pyramids can be used with the latest x264 builds

Unless ofcourse someone reports a problem with a certain hardware decoder?

I'm still seeing issues with B-pyramids. Can't use them just yet. Details @ doom9.

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Old 01-20-2008, 02:53 AM
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Guess we still have to wait and test more then
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Old 01-20-2008, 03:12 PM
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For all those who wanted to revert their files back to 5.0 / 5.1 then this version will allow you to.

Attachment 99816

 

IDC Changerv0.2.zip 9.1826171875k . file
Attached Files
File Type: zip IDC Changerv0.2.zip (9.2 KB, 57 views)
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Old 01-21-2008, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by DJBlu View Post

For all those who wanted to revert their files back to 5.0 / 5.1 then this version will allow you to.

Attachment 99816

Cheers
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Old 01-24-2008, 07:48 AM
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First of all, my appreciation goes to Tetsuo55, ExDeus, DJBlu and others that contributed to this temporary solution for all their effort. Still a question though, for DJBlu.

Why isn't it possible to do the same IDC Changer trick to 1080p encodes?
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Old 01-24-2008, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondust View Post

Why isn't it possible to do the same IDC Changer trick to 1080p encodes?

It's a different problem - it seems our cards only do up to lev4.1 decoding (makes sense of a sort, given that's all Bluray needs). Most 1080p encodes break that, but 720 ones don't - as they have less pixels, they can use far less ref frames and still not exceed the limit.

IDC Changer is essentially just bypassing an oddity in the PDVD decoder, which is why it works so quickly.
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Old 01-24-2008, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arfster View Post

It's a different problem - it seems our cards only do up to lev4.1 decoding (makes sense of a sort, given that's all Bluray needs). Most 1080p encodes break that, but 720 ones don't - as they have less pixels, they can use far less ref frames and still not exceed the limit.

IDC Changer is essentially just bypassing an oddity in the PDVD decoder, which is why it works so quickly.

Afster,

If this is a limitation on the hardware manufacturers and decoders who are conforming to H264 standards, I can only assume that most x264 encodes are not targeted at those of us who use the hardware acceleration, but are for software decoding. This is really to bad, as we will start to see more "stand-alone" players and NMT that support H264 with HL@4.1 max.

Am I correct in assuming that the reason they are encoded at higer levels is it allows for better picture quality with smaller file size? Essentially, why would one not encode x264 at HL@4.1 for HD, to provide a greater compatability?
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Old 01-24-2008, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brew99 View Post

Am I correct in assuming that the reason they are encoded at higer levels is it allows for better picture quality with smaller file size? Essentially, why would one not encode x264 at HL@4.1 for HD, to provide a greater compatability?

It's more that the importance of 4.1 limits wasn't known - dxva problems with x264 were guessed to be caused by several things (pdvd? haali?). Now it's pinned down exactly what will work I guess more stuff will be encoded to be compliant. Maybe.

For 1080p at least, I'm not sure there's much of a quality difference by using vastly more ref frames - after all, Bluray and HDDVD get away with it. People say anime benefits a lot, but other than that it may not be too much of a restriction.
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Old 01-24-2008, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arfster View Post

It's more that the importance of 4.1 limits wasn't known - dxva problems with x264 were guessed to be caused by several things (pdvd? haali?). Now it's pinned down exactly what will work I guess more stuff will be encoded to be compliant. Maybe.

For 1080p at least, I'm not sure there's much of a quality difference by using vastly more ref frames - after all, Bluray and HDDVD get away with it. People say anime benefits a lot, but other than that it may not be too much of a restriction.

Great, thanks for the enlightenment..........Lets hope the encoders follow the new findings, and stick within the defined limits!

BTW, just wanted to thank of those (Arfster, Tetsuo55, ExDeus, DJBlu and others) in providing the wealth of knowledge and testing required to nail down the limitation of DXVA and x264 encodes. Keep up the good work!
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Old 01-24-2008, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arfster View Post

It's a different problem - it seems our cards only do up to lev4.1 decoding (makes sense of a sort, given that's all Bluray needs). Most 1080p encodes break that, but 720 ones don't - as they have less pixels, they can use far less ref frames and still not exceed the limit.

IDC Changer is essentially just bypassing an oddity in the PDVD decoder, which is why it works so quickly.

Ah ok, so the IDC fix applies to a 1080p encode as well, but with a big chance that it won't help due to the number of ref-frames? Is re-encoding (with right settings) possible without any loss of picture quality?
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Old 01-24-2008, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondust View Post

Ah ok, so the IDC fix applies to a 1080p encode as well, but with a big chance that it won't help due to the number of ref-frames?

Yup :-( This is why some 720p files played but with the 20fps bug, while most 1080p stuff just didn't play at all.

Re-encoding always means a quality loss though, but if you have a very detailed video in might not be too bad. If it's already blurry and has artifacts, don't bother.
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Old 01-24-2008, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arfster View Post

Yup :-( This is why some 720p files played but with the 20fps bug, while most 1080p stuff just didn't play at all.

Re-encoding always means a quality loss though, but if you have a very detailed video in might not be too bad. If it's already blurry and has artifacts, don't bother.

Crystal, thanks a lot.
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Old 01-24-2008, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJBlu View Post

For all those who wanted to revert their files back to 5.0 / 5.1 then this version will allow you to.

DJ, would it be possible for you to bundle your application with the required .NET files? (i assume it relies on .NET, which is why it won't work here: "Application couldn't initialize correctly (0xc0000135)".
Thanks,

TSR
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Old 01-25-2008, 02:47 AM
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I'll upload them tonight when I get home from work.
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Old 01-27-2008, 05:16 AM
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IDC Changer required dll's

If you don't want to install .net 2.0 then use these to run the IDC Changer.
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Old 01-28-2008, 05:12 AM
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TY all for this great explanation, and DJBlu for the tool (which worked great on the 2 files I tested it on) <3!
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Old 01-29-2008, 02:53 AM
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Any news on other decoders going to support hardware acceleration? CoreAVC for example? Or is it still only rumors?
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Old 01-29-2008, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondust View Post

Any news on other decoders going to support hardware acceleration? CoreAVC for example? Or is it still only rumors?

THey've been claiming they would since the very first version.
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Old 01-29-2008, 06:00 AM
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It's a shame that this process works on 720p only. Few relatively modern machines have real problems decoding 720p.
The real problem come from 1080p content.

Even though I'm pretty confident that in six months time even mainstream CPUs won't have problems decoding all 1080p content available (with CoreAVC for sure, but I trust the developers of ffdshow too).

Software decoders are getting faster, CPUs are getting faster. 1080p content complexity remains fixed. There's only one outcome possible, IMHO. And this is more significant than MPEG2, considering that the need to apply postprocessing to HD content is greatly reduced when compared to what's needed to get good picture quality out of SD.

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Old 01-29-2008, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorman42 View Post

It's a shame that this process works on 720p only. Few relatively modern machines have real problems decoding 720p.
The real problem come from 1080p content.

It will work with 1080p that meets 4.1 standards, and x264 presets will likely increasingly meet that.

By the way, it's possible to have software decode with ffdshow, then output with interlaced flag and it will use the graphics card for deinterlacing, sharpening, denoise etc. Quite useful when the hardware decoder is misbehaving, but you need the card's postprocessing power (eg red shifted mpeg2 stuff, or non-compliant h264).
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Old 01-29-2008, 08:32 AM
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So the 4.1 standards are fine and unambiguous and Powerdvd's H264 decoder applies those standards like it should? The only problem is most encoders being unfamiliar with these 4.1 standards? Right?
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Old 02-02-2008, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondust View Post

So the 4.1 standards are fine and unambiguous and Powerdvd's H264 decoder applies those standards like it should?

I don't know if I'd say that, but Cyberlink has interpreted the standard and implemented it, and we had to learn that it was the HD DVD / Blu-ray use of H.264 that was chosen to implement (i.e., L4.1). We are now trying to establish just how it was interpreted to match its implementation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondust View Post

The only problem is most encoders being unfamiliar with these 4.1 standards? Right?

As of right now, b-pyramids are still in question, but short of that one feature, if you encode what should be a L4.1-compliant stream, DXVA should work with the Cyberlink decoder.

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Old 02-11-2008, 04:47 AM
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I just noticed a L4.1 encode from the scene. It had L4.1 in the filename. So it looks like the L4.1 standard has reached the scene now.
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Old 02-11-2008, 04:56 AM
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One little question though, if you use HW-acceleration you loose the ability to use custom subs right? Cause I couldn't get them to work under Zoom Player at least.
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Old 02-11-2008, 05:00 AM
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Anybody use meGui to make DXVA compatible files? I was wondering if anyone had a profile that had everything the first post did. I guess you would just have to change the DPB size. Some of the existing choices are "SA-HD-DVD" and "PD-PS3-XBOX360".
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Old 02-11-2008, 07:19 AM
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This may be off topic, but my question is how do I take 1080i m2ts files and use x264 to encode them so they work as AVC-HD files on my PS3. Is there a simple guide for this? I've tried to use MeGUI but I also get errors or something. I'd prefer not to deinterlace them when they are encoded. Any tips are appreciated.

Thanks,
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Old 02-11-2008, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondust View Post

I just noticed a L4.1 encode from the scene. It had L4.1 in the filename. So it looks like the L4.1 standard has reached the scene now.

Finally!! i just saw the same thing, but not all L4.1 releases are tagged as such


Quote:
Originally Posted by bran82 View Post

One little question though, if you use HW-acceleration you loose the ability to use custom subs right? Cause I couldn't get them to work under Zoom Player at least.

use directvobsub and dx9 renderless
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Old 02-12-2008, 12:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagercola View Post

Anybody use meGui to make DXVA compatible files? I was wondering if anyone had a profile that had everything the first post did. I guess you would just have to change the DPB size. Some of the existing choices are "SA-HD-DVD" and "PD-PS3-XBOX360".

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExDeus View Post

The best x264 profile is the MeGUI PD-PS3 profile, with B-pyramid disabled.

The PS3 profile options, sans B-Pyramid:

--level 4.1 --ref 3 --mixed-refs --bframes 3 --b-rdo --bime --weightb --direct auto --subme 6 --trellis 1 --analyse p8x8,b8x8,i4x4,i8x8 --8x8dct --vbv-maxrate 25000 --me umh --merange 12

My MeGUI installation has a PD-PS3 profile that just needs b-pyramid disabled.

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Old 02-12-2008, 10:16 AM
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Valnar, would you mind posting teh profiles you use with autoMKV in xml format?
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