GeForce 8200 - 8 Channel LPCM Output Fully Supported!! - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 2308 Old 03-29-2008, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpebcac View Post

We received TEN of these boards in today in our shop.

Here's my initial assessment:

SUCK. Yes, 8 channel out, fine.. but where I can get a LE-1640 to play blueray back using the ATI 780G, a 4400+ stutters on this board

This is a serious negative, IMHO, and it may just be due to driver immaturity at this point.

On the other hand, they come up stable, run stable, and don't crash.. they just don't perform that hot.

I don't know, I was planning these for our local media center installs, we like the 780G, but people all want Nvidia.. but with the way this performs, I'm not really that hot on this product.

Something was wrong with your setup. Anandtech already tested a bunch of Blu-ray material on the M3N78-EMH HDMI and CPU utilization with a 4850e (basically a low power 4800+) was in the 20-25% range. Using a 4400+ instead wouldn't have any particular effect on those numbers. Here's the article:

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...oc.aspx?i=3258

The most likely cause for the low performance is that the hardware acceleration for some reason didn't work in your tests, because the GF8200 certainly isn't slower than the 780G in this regard.
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post #362 of 2308 Old 03-29-2008, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Jpebcac View Post

Ok, using the LiteOn Blueray, DH-401808C
Power DVD 7, fully updated Ultra

I think you're missing my base point. A 5000+ isn't spendy. Hell, a 5600+ isn't spendy.

What I'm saying is: the 780G seems to be a considerably more established (read: better) chipset for this purpose right now. Disk performance is better, etc.

So, I'm not saying this to complain, what do I care.. they are what they are, and it doesn't impact me directly, I'm not piling them up out of the store and taking them home. I'm just saying: if someone asked me to chose between the two, I'd recommend the 780G, because the performance is not acceptable on the Nvidia right now.

....And having some early real-world feedback is much appreciated. Good work!

Lets hope that updated drivers fix the issues otherwise G45 will still be the only viable solution for HD audio via digital I/F (well, for systems that can't accomodate discrete cards that is). That of course assumes that the Intel drivers are up to the job. Anyone noticing a pattern here?

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post #363 of 2308 Old 03-29-2008, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brunnis View Post

Something was wrong with your setup. Anandtech already tested a bunch of Blu-ray material on the M3N78-EMH HDMI and CPU utilization with a 4850e (basically a low power 4800+) was in the 20-25% range. Using a 4400+ instead wouldn't have any particular effect on those numbers. Here's the article:

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...oc.aspx?i=3258

The most likely cause for the low performance is that the hardware acceleration for some reason didn't work in your tests, because the GF8200 ceratinly isn't slower than the 780G in this regard.

anandtech used the 173.68 drivers in that test. Hmmm.

Jpebcac, are you in a position to do any more testing? Did you notice whether PDVD was claiming to have enabled HA in the settings?

Wo0zy.
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post #364 of 2308 Old 03-29-2008, 07:06 AM
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I've got it setup here.

Here's the config, I can roll out the drivers and roll back in the 173s.

Using:

4400+
500GB WD 7200RPM
LiteOn BD-ROM
2GB DDR2-800

As my other main components.

I'll roll off and re-do this and see if I get different results.
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post #365 of 2308 Old 03-29-2008, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpebcac View Post

Ok, using the LiteOn Blueray, DH-401808C
Power DVD 7, fully updated Ultra

I think you're missing my base point. A 5000+ isn't spendy. Hell, a 5600+ isn't spendy.

What I'm saying is: the 780G seems to be a considerably more established (read: better) chipset for this purpose right now. Disk performance is better, etc.

So, I'm not saying this to complain, what do I care.. they are what they are, and it doesn't impact me directly, I'm not piling them up out of the store and taking them home. I'm just saying: if someone asked me to chose between the two, I'd recommend the 780G, because the performance is not acceptable on the Nvidia right now.

Except the 780G only does 2-channel PCM, where the nVidia does 8-channel. Huge difference, and I hope you'd be clear about that in your recommendation.

Also, the 780G is released, and the nVidia isn't. Whether you have boards or not, they aren't supposed to be for sale yet, most likely because they are working on the drivers.

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post #366 of 2308 Old 03-29-2008, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpebcac View Post

I've got it setup here.

Here's the config, I can roll out the drivers and roll back in the 173s.

Using:

4400+
500GB WD 7200RPM
LiteOn BD-ROM
2GB DDR2-800

As my other main components.

I'll roll off and re-do this and see if I get different results.

Nice one
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post #367 of 2308 Old 03-29-2008, 11:52 AM
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Interesting. Uninstalling the 174 and installing the Beta 173 did result in fairly significant performance boost. Although now I'm also getting occassional drop backs to 16 bit color on that system, which I'm not sure if it's because I uninstalled 174 and put in 173.. maybe I'll reformat.

But now Blueray is watchable on a 4400+ for the CPU, which is something that wasn't happening before.
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post #368 of 2308 Old 03-29-2008, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpebcac View Post

Interesting. Uninstalling the 174 and installing the Beta 173 did result in fairly significant performance boost. Although now I'm also getting occassional drop backs to 16 bit color on that system, which I'm not sure if it's because I uninstalled 174 and put in 173.. maybe I'll reformat.

But now Blueray is watchable on a 4400+ for the CPU, which is something that wasn't happening before.

Definitely sounds like for some reason hardware acceleration isn't working. With buggy drivers, things could be checked off but still not working. Think we've all been through that before =D

While you're at it, could you check to see if 1080p/24/60/72 etc resolutions and refresh rates are work?

Thanks.
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post #369 of 2308 Old 03-29-2008, 02:06 PM
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So far, it doesn't let me choose 1080p; the moment I go 1920x1080, it gives me 30hz; but at 1920x1200, it gives it right (though it I can't display that proper on my set)

In regards to LPCM on all channels.. maybe, but PowerDVD 7.3 latest update sure isn't providing me that option; just 2 channel stereo, my Denon 3808CI doesn't pick up anything but stereo coming out (though I can get it to pass DTS/DD 5.1 regular from DVDs, etc.) so I'll fool with that some, that may be a software issue with PowerDVD more then the board.
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post #370 of 2308 Old 03-29-2008, 03:53 PM
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Interesting results. Here's another thing to look at: With one of the test pattern discs here are AVS, or even better if you have the DVE Blu -Ray, can you tell whether the board/drivers/playback software is passing "below black" (sometimes called blacker than black) when playing back hi def content?


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post #371 of 2308 Old 03-29-2008, 06:20 PM
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I can go through that tomorrow, I've been meaning to run DVE anyway to balance out my Samsung set, which is new.
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post #372 of 2308 Old 03-29-2008, 06:21 PM - Thread Starter
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TechConnect Magazine

I am a bit surprised that there is no MCP7A + nForce 200 board.
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post #373 of 2308 Old 03-29-2008, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpebcac View Post

So far, it doesn't let me choose 1080p; the moment I go 1920x1080, it gives me 30hz; but at 1920x1200, it gives it right (though it I can't display that proper on my set)

In regards to LPCM on all channels.. maybe, but PowerDVD 7.3 latest update sure isn't providing me that option; just 2 channel stereo, my Denon 3808CI doesn't pick up anything but stereo coming out (though I can get it to pass DTS/DD 5.1 regular from DVDs, etc.) so I'll fool with that some, that may be a software issue with PowerDVD more then the board.

No 1080p?!?!? Unbelieavable.

RE: LPCM, maybe the 8200 has the same strict EDID handshake like the G35. If so, Denon's will be a problem, and I have a Denon. =(

So no 1080p, and possible EDID handshake incompatibility with Denon. Not looking good. I should test multichannel LPCM with my M1330 w/ Geforce 8400 HDMI. I only got around to trying 2ch LPCM.
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post #374 of 2308 Old 03-29-2008, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by stoked View Post

No 1080p?!?!? Unbelieavable.

RE: LPCM, maybe the 8200 has the same strict EDID handshake like the G35. If so, Denon's will be a problem, and I have a Denon. =(

So no 1080p, and possible EDID handshake incompatibility with Denon. Not looking good. I should test multichannel LPCM with my M1330 w/ Geforce 8400 HDMI. I only got around to trying 2ch LPCM.

The chipset can easily do that. This is a driver problem, and an example of why the mass launch of the MCP78U (the 8300) has been delayed. For the HTPC market, this stuff just has to work.
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post #375 of 2308 Old 03-29-2008, 08:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpebcac View Post

So far, it doesn't let me choose 1080p; the moment I go 1920x1080, it gives me 30hz; but at 1920x1200, it gives it right (though it I can't display that proper on my set)

In regards to LPCM on all channels.. maybe, but PowerDVD 7.3 latest update sure isn't providing me that option; just 2 channel stereo, my Denon 3808CI doesn't pick up anything but stereo coming out (though I can get it to pass DTS/DD 5.1 regular from DVDs, etc.) so I'll fool with that some, that may be a software issue with PowerDVD more then the board.

Can you snag the EDID info from the Denon (are you running the 1.69 firmware rev?) and check to see if they are sending the audio info properly?

The older Denons have a problem where they send 4 byte audio packets instead of 3 byte packets. This basically means each new packet overwrites the previous one. Their stereo packet comes after their 8 channel packet (at least in the older models), thereby causing issues with the connected device thinking it can only accept 2 channel...so that is all it will allow to be sent.

This is a known issue with the older Denon's and the Intel G35s. I had hoped we would not find it existing in the current Denon's, but it appears it is probably still there.
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post #376 of 2308 Old 03-30-2008, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stoked View Post

No 1080p?!?!? Unbelieavable.

RE: LPCM, maybe the 8200 has the same strict EDID handshake like the G35. If so, Denon's will be a problem, and I have a Denon. =(

So no 1080p, and possible EDID handshake incompatibility with Denon. Not looking good. I should test multichannel LPCM with my M1330 w/ Geforce 8400 HDMI. I only got around to trying 2ch LPCM.

It sounds like the 8200 is adhearing strictly to the EDID data, just like the G35 does. G35 owners can overcome missing video modes by using the tool DTD Calculator, but they can't overcome missing audio modes using this tool.

In the G35 thread, there has been speculation that the Gefen DVI Detective Plus will fix the issue for Denon owners:

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=4715

I suspect it would work great for the 8200/8300 also. I have not seen anyone post that they have one of these devices, but I am sure that someone will try one soon.

I have been considering getting one also. With my Onkyo 905, when I switch inputs on the audio, the EDID stream to my G35 is broken, and the G35 reconfigures the HDMI output from 6 or 8 channels to two channels. Of course, this is no problem since I do not have the G35 selected anyway, and 6/8 channels comes back when I select the G35 at the Onkyo. However, if I have player software playing or paused (such as PowerDVD, Nero Showtime, or even Windows Media Player) the change in audio configuration causes the player software to lockup or crash. The DVI Detective Plus should fix this by masking the EDID disruption caused by switching the Onkyo input.

The DVI Detective Plus is $129, so it is not a cheap solution. As a matter of fact, it costs about as much as a new motherboard.

-Dave
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post #377 of 2308 Old 03-30-2008, 07:22 AM
 
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I also read powerstrip can bypass the improper EDID implimentation.

EDIT: Might only be for video, though.
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post #378 of 2308 Old 03-30-2008, 07:45 AM
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I'm running the latest firmware on the Denon (did an update Thursday). I'll read the links here.. in regards to no 1080p, that's not what I'm saying, by default it's providing resolutions that are higher then 1920x1080 at 60/24, it just when I select that it autodefaults to 30, I think this is just a driver issue, I can't remember if I ran into this on the 174s (which were the ones were I couldn't get hardware acceleration and blueray playback sucked)

Let me see what I can come up with.
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post #379 of 2308 Old 03-30-2008, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpebcac View Post

I'm running the latest firmware on the Denon (did an update Thursday). I'll read the links here.. in regards to no 1080p, that's not what I'm saying, by default it's providing resolutions that are higher then 1920x1080 at 60/24, it just when I select that it autodefaults to 30, I think this is just a driver issue, I can't remember if I ran into this on the 174s (which were the ones were I couldn't get hardware acceleration and blueray playback sucked)

Let me see what I can come up with.

Sounds like it's defaulting to 1080i. Have you tried using Moninfo (http://www.entechtaiwan.com/util/moninfo.shtm) capture the EDID information? If would be interesting to see what the Denon is reporting. Not sure if it will give you the second EDID block (it doesn't with Intel Graphics) which is probably more important, but it's worth a try.

Thanks for the continued feedback.

Cheers,

Wo0zy
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post #380 of 2308 Old 03-31-2008, 07:04 AM
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Just for clarification which Denon' suffer from the EDID problems? I was just about to pull the trigger on a 4308CI.
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post #381 of 2308 Old 03-31-2008, 08:06 AM
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Just for clarification which Denon' suffer from the EDID problems? I was just about to pull the trigger on a 4308CI.

The best explanation I have seen of the Denon EDID issue is Archibael's post in the G35 thread. It seems like this is really not a bug, but a matter of interpretation of the 861B spec. Therefore, I would expect that all Denon's suffer from the same issue. I guess we won't know for sure until somebody with a 4308CI posts the EDID blocks from that AVR.

-Dave
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post #382 of 2308 Old 03-31-2008, 11:59 AM
 
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The best explanation I have seen of the Denon EDID issue is Archibael's post in the G35 thread. It seems like this is really not a bug, but a matter of interpretation of the 861B spec. Therefore, I would expect that all Denon's suffer from the same issue. I guess we won't know for sure until somebody with a 4308CI posts the EDID blocks from that AVR.

-Dave

Well, it is actually a bug. Denon is required to send 3 byte EDID SADs but instead send 4 byte SADs. Denon also treats optional EDID info as mandatory, which causes problems with some connected devices (such as the HD Fury).

AFAIK, all Denon's suffer from it. What we need is a way to make the PC not care about the Short Audio Descriptors...and just send what we say to send.
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post #383 of 2308 Old 03-31-2008, 05:51 PM
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Hey guys I've finally made my decision on what I'm going to go for. Since reading several reviews about the Geforce 8300 being overly hot, and my case being the Silverstone LC11, I've determined that I have to keep heat way down in order for my HTPC to work. So upon some research I'm going to go back to AMD by buying a Phenom 9150e. That's right folks, 65 watt quad core. I figure even if it's 1.8ghz, should be more than enough power coupled with the 8200 for HD-DVD/Blu-ray. Now is it enough to double the frame rates as I was doing on 720p MKVs with my e6300@ 2.8hz? We shall see...
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post #384 of 2308 Old 03-31-2008, 06:03 PM
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Hey guys I've finally made my decision on what I'm going to go for. Since reading several reviews about the Geforce 8300 being overly hot, and my case being the Silverstone LC11, I've determined that I have to keep heat way down in order for my HTPC to work. So upon some research I'm going to go back to AMD by buying a Phenom 9150e. That's right folks, 65 watt quad core. I figure even if it's 1.8ghz, should be more than enough power coupled with the 8200 for HD-DVD/Blu-ray. Now is it enough to double the frame rates as I was doing on 720p MKVs with my e6300@ 2.8hz? We shall see...

Can you buy either the 6150e or 8200 anywhere?

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post #385 of 2308 Old 03-31-2008, 07:11 PM
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Can you buy either the 6150e or 8200 anywhere?

M3N78-EMH HDMI just showed up at a local store's website.
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post #386 of 2308 Old 04-01-2008, 07:29 AM
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M3N78-EMH HDMI just showed up at a local store's website.

What store? Is it possible to purchase and have them ship it?
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post #387 of 2308 Old 04-01-2008, 07:55 AM
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What store? Is it possible to purchase and have them ship it?

I'm sure they are incorrectly listing it already. The best pre-order date I've seen is 4/17. Anyone selling it before then is doing so against ASUS/nVidia's wishes.

And it would probably be pointless for you to get it sooner since the drivers are still mostly broken.

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post #388 of 2308 Old 04-01-2008, 10:56 AM
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What store? Is it possible to purchase and have them ship it?

I'm in Canada, so probably a PITA to order. Jpebcac said he's got 10 boards in stock. PM him, he said he ships.
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post #389 of 2308 Old 04-01-2008, 11:13 AM
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Just a quick thanks! to Jpebcac for posting all this info! Hopefully nvidia will get the drivers sorted out.

Take care,
Seth

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Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H 780G chipset
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post #390 of 2308 Old 04-01-2008, 08:07 PM
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Guys I was wondering if the 8200 will even be supported by XP at all. I had Vista 64 for over a year and never had a problem with it, but when switching back to XP I noticed huge performance increases.

I don't mind Vista, it's just slower than XP, since this is strictly an HTPC, I don't think OS matters much. I'm just curious as to if I should start readying for Vista 64 if I have to.

AMD Phenom 9150e + Geforce 8200 is what I'm gunning for, how about you guys? Anyone here getting an 8300? or perhaps an Intel solution?
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