GeForce 8200 - 8 Channel LPCM Output Fully Supported!! - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 2308 Old 02-08-2008, 02:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. MarioMan View Post

renethx,

Did you actually test the combination of on-board HDMI output for audio and a video card for video ?

I asked about it a while ago and answered that it isn't possible so I'm a little confused.

The actual audio test was done by connecting HDMI to a display with built-in speaker (display 3 in the figure). It worked. Then I disconnected HDMI from the display. Apparently HDMI audio still sending signal as shown in the figure. I need to confirm if it works with an actual receiver later.

In the NVIDIA motherboard, HDMI audio and HDMI display are treated as independent devices.


eVGA board supports only an S/PDIF level signal.
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post #32 of 2308 Old 02-08-2008, 02:37 PM
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Renethx,

Thanks for the screen shots. That's nice to see. I was unable to do the same thing with my G35 board and an ATI 3450 because Vista only wants to see one display driver.

This is going to be in interesting choice for people considering the Auzentech solution. The Prelude is $199.99 at Newegg. We don't know what the HDMI card will cost, but my guess is that it will be at least $100. So you might be spending $300, and you probably need two card slots.

On the other hand if you can buy an nVidia board with an HDMI port and use an nVidia card in Vista (or do the same thing with AMD/ATI) for around $150, and use the integrated HDMI port as an audio port, you can get the same 8-channel LPCM 24-bit/192kHz output as Auzentech for a lot less. Of course, many people will want audio and video on the same HDMI cable, but that is not a big deal for me.

Also, many people will find that the integrated video is sufficient for HTPC use, so you don't need to buy a video card either (in which case you do get video and audio on the same cable). For someone building a new system, HDMI video and audio from the motherboard could same at least $250 than HDMI audio from Auzentech and HDMI video from a separate card.

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post #33 of 2308 Old 02-08-2008, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THXUltra2 View Post

If it does not support Deep Color nor TrueHD/DTS-HDMA bitstreaming, why is it still HDMI 1.3a compliant?????

You know I was gonna ask the exact same thing. So no DeepColor, no bitstreaming of HD formats... So what exactly does it have over PC solutions that only support/"max out" at HDMI 1.x (where x < 3) ? I mean these are the main facets of 1.3...

Sounds like a lot of nothing to me...

According to this

DeepColor and TrueHD/DTS-MA/HD are optional so I guess they definitely don't have to have those. However how much interest is there in things like:

1.3:
-Increases single-link bandwidth to 340 MHz (10.2 Gbit/s)
-Incorporates automatic audio syncing (Audio video sync) capability
-Availability of a new mini connector for devices such as camcorders

1.3a:
-Cable and Sink modifications for Type C
-Source termination recommendation
-Removed undershoot and maximum rise/fall time limits.
-CEC capacitance limits changed
-RGB video quantization range clarification
-CEC commands for timer control brought back in an altered form, audio control commands added.
-Concurrently released compliance test specification included

[Above copied from the wikipage linked to.]

Seems to me like those "mandatory" or non-optional features aren't really all that relevant to the average consumer. Increased bandwidth mandate is nice, sure (but I don't think it's even necessary for BD is it?); and I guess the sync thing is great too, as that should (?) ensure no sync problems with audio and video.

But other than that it seems what people really want/talk about from versions over 1.2 are the things that Nvidia is specifically not including support for in this chipset.
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post #34 of 2308 Old 02-08-2008, 11:04 PM
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I see they specifically mentioned that deep color was not available, but I don't think they said for sure if bit stream output of TrueHD/DTS-MA/HD is supported. All they said was they weren't decoding it.
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post #35 of 2308 Old 02-09-2008, 12:31 AM - Thread Starter
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What another reviewer said is:

Quote:


Gigabyte told us one interesting thing about the new Nvidia chipsets and HD audio from HD DVD and Blu-ray media, there are beta drivers in the works that will allow this chipset to support the latest HD audio formats such as DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD, something that AMD doesn’t support at this moment. However, it does require that you’re using the latest version of CyberLink Power DVD with support for HD DVD and Blu-ray media.

Gigabyte January 2008 update part 2

This is again confusing enough.

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post #36 of 2308 Old 02-09-2008, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

What another reviewer said is:


This is again confusing enough.

I agree, it certainly is confusing!
I was planning on upgrading my 2+ year old den nV6150 HTPC with a 780G when they come out. After reading this thread and some of the links, the 8200 looks interesting also. I have a number of 6150 MBs and on some of them I used RAID5 capabilities of the SB. It works fine: I've never lost data even though HDDs have died. However, the write speeds are real SLOW because nV does not allow like write caching. For comparison, I also have an Intel MB w/ a ICH9R and it's RAID5 write speeds are significantly higher when write caching is enabled.

Does anybody know:
if the new 8200 SB allows RAID5 write caching, like the Intel ICH9R does?

What chipset (8200 or 780G) will be available first in the USA?
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post #37 of 2308 Old 02-09-2008, 04:23 PM
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Renethx, please test with receiver the combination of on-board HDMI output for audio and HDMI video card output for video. If I am playing back BR disc with TrueHD, will I be able to use a receiver that has TrueHD decode for decoding the audio passed by the HTPC? For my application, I need two two HDMI outputs: "video hdmi" to go to Lumagen processor and "audio hdmi" to go to receiver. If that will work, then I will build a htpc same as your test config. Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

The actual audio test was done by connecting HDMI to a display with built-in speaker (display 3 in the figure). It worked. Then I disconnected HDMI from the display. Apparently HDMI audio still sending signal as shown in the figure. I need to confirm if it works with an actual receiver later.

In the NVIDIA motherboard, HDMI audio and HDMI display are treated as independent devices.


eVGA board supports only an S/PDIF level signal.

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post #38 of 2308 Old 02-09-2008, 09:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vkristof View Post

I agree, it certainly is confusing!
I was planning on upgrading my 2+ year old den nV6150 HTPC with a 780G when they come out. After reading this thread and some of the links, the 8200 looks interesting also. I have a number of 6150 MBs and on some of them I used RAID5 capabilities of the SB. It works fine: I've never lost data even though HDDs have died. However, the write speeds are real SLOW because nV does not allow like write caching. For comparison, I also have an Intel MB w/ a ICH9R and it's RAID5 write speeds are significantly higher when write caching is enabled.

Does anybody know:
if the new 8200 SB allows RAID5 write caching, like the Intel ICH9R does?

What chipset (8200 or 780G) will be available first in the USA?

I can't answer the questions. Just a note: 780G does not support RAID 5. So if want RAID 5, GeForce 8200 is the only choice.

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post #39 of 2308 Old 02-09-2008, 09:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinylvision View Post

Renethx, please test with receiver the combination of on-board HDMI output for audio and HDMI video card output for video. If I am playing back BR disc with TrueHD, will I be able to use a receiver that has TrueHD decode for decoding the audio passed by the HTPC? For my application, I need two two HDMI outputs: "video hdmi" to go to Lumagen processor and "audio hdmi" to go to receiver. If that will work, then I will build a htpc same as your test config. Thanks.

I will do the test asap. Right now TrueHD cannot be passed over HDMI as repeatedly mentioned in this thread.

As I said in an ealier post, GeForce 7150 supports only S/PDIF-level audio over HDMI. Then why not just use S/PDIF instead of HDMI for audio?

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post #40 of 2308 Old 02-10-2008, 05:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

I can't answer the questions. Just a note: 780G does not support RAID 5. So if want RAID 5, GeForce 8200 is the only choice.

Yes. That means the 8200 has a check mark in the features-I'd-pay-to-have column.

The last two video cards I've bought are a HD 2400 and a HD 3450.


How does HD pure video compare w/ Avivo in the area of support by codecs/players? For example PowerDVD? Or Nero's Showtime?
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post #41 of 2308 Old 02-10-2008, 10:26 AM
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I just saw this thread and am planning a new system but I need HDMI. When will a 8200 uATX based mobo be available - has anyone announced anything yet ??
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post #42 of 2308 Old 02-10-2008, 11:11 AM
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Wait a second, why does it matter that it can't pass TrueHD? If it can pass 8-channel LPCM, isn't that exactly what would come out of a TrueHD decoder? What would be the difference?

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post #43 of 2308 Old 02-10-2008, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anywhereanytime View Post

I just saw this thread and am planning a new system but I need HDMI. When will a 8200 uATX based mobo be available - has anyone announced anything yet ??

Good question!

Gary key's blog on Anantech conatins this statement related to multichannel audio over HDMI on the 8200:

"NVIDIA will be introducing it later this month or in early March. "

Photos of Gigabyte uATX MBs are on the web now.
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post #44 of 2308 Old 02-10-2008, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greeniguana00 View Post

Wait a second, why does it matter that it can't pass TrueHD? If it can pass 8-channel LPCM, isn't that exactly what would come out of a TrueHD decoder? What would be the difference?

Don't know where the decoder would be other than at the AVR, but it seems to me that a digital audio stream should be a digital audio, whether it's 8-channel LPCM or TrueHD. The max bitrates of TrueHD, and 8-channel LPCM (I asssume), ARE impressive. Especially when you contrast the TrueHD max number of 18 Mbps to old DD @ 0.64 Mbps. Or even to PowerDVD indicating typical HD @ 30-40 Mbps for a 1080p VC1 stream. Assuming the wikipedia entry is accurate:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_TrueHD

Unless this is related to licensing fees for TrueHD.

But what do I know?
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post #45 of 2308 Old 02-10-2008, 03:36 PM
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When are these 8200 based motherboards available?

edit - NM, answered 2 posts above.
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post #46 of 2308 Old 02-10-2008, 04:02 PM
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I thought people were already getting TrueHD decoded and sent over analog, so 8-channel PCM would be exactly the same, only digital. I could be mistaken.

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post #47 of 2308 Old 02-10-2008, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vkristof View Post

Good question!

Gary key's blog on Anantech conatins this statement related to multichannel audio over HDMI on the 8200:

"NVIDIA will be introducing it later this month or in early March. "

Photos of Gigabyte uATX MBs are on the web now.

Did you see this update on Gary's blog: "Update - NVIDIA will not be support transporting a TrueHD or DTS-HD (MA) audio stream across HDMI as we thought. "
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post #48 of 2308 Old 02-10-2008, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSM View Post

Did you see this update on Gary's blog: "Update - NVIDIA will not be support transporting a TrueHD or DTS-HD (MA) audio stream across HDMI as we thought. "

7.1 channel PCM is still a digital multichannel stream. I'm with the others who really doesn't get what the difference is to some of you. If it decodes the stream to another digital stream in the PC or in the receiver whats it matter? In fact, decoding it in the PC is more future proof because theoretically that should work with any stream your computer can play.

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post #49 of 2308 Old 02-10-2008, 06:20 PM
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It would be nice to have the option available to us as to whether the PC or AVR does the decoding. In fact, it would be easier to just pass the digital audio stream unprocessed to the AVR via HDMI. Less resources needed on the PC side. Less resources = less heat and less problems.

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post #50 of 2308 Old 02-10-2008, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chillspace View Post

It would be nice to have the option available to us as to whether the PC or AVR does the decoding. In fact, it would be easier to just pass the digital audio stream unprocessed to the AVR via HDMI. Less resources needed on the PC side. Less resources = less heat and less problems.

Yes, that's what it seems like on the surface. Has anybody checked the G35 thread to see what the Intel side says about what is really required?
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post #51 of 2308 Old 02-10-2008, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSM View Post

Did you see this update on Gary's blog: "Update - NVIDIA will not be support transporting a TrueHD or DTS-HD (MA) audio stream across HDMI as we thought. "

Yes, I saw it. I have a 7 year old $200 AVR so it's an interesting technical point to debate, but that's really about it.

I'm more intersted in when the MBs will be available and how well does the PureVideo HD interface to PowerDVD, etc.
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post #52 of 2308 Old 02-11-2008, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vkristof View Post

Yes, I saw it. I have a 7 year old $200 AVR so it's an interesting technical point to debate, but that's really about it.

I'm more intersted in when the MBs will be available and how well does the PureVideo HD interface to PowerDVD, etc.

Indeed. The fact that it can do multi-channel LPCM is fine by me, the decoding can be in the PC, just as it's done in the player for many set-top HD DVD and Blu-ray players. We just need a proper way to transport the audio for once. And I will be really interested to see the video performance.
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post #53 of 2308 Old 02-11-2008, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vkristof View Post

How does HD pure video compare w/ Avivo in the area of support by codecs/players? For example PowerDVD? Or Nero's Showtime?

NVIDIA actually worked to get PureVideo support in Nero and PowerDVD before ATI did, so PureVideo should be well suported.
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post #54 of 2308 Old 02-11-2008, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpHeRe31459 View Post

Indeed. The fact that it can do multi-channel LPCM is fine by me, the decoding can be in the PC, just as it's done in the player for many set-top HD DVD and Blu-ray players. We just need a proper way to transport the audio for once. And I will be really interested to see the video performance.

I didn't think that nvidia supported decode of true-HD etc... to LPCM in software? Otherwise why didn't they just say they supported DTS-MA, etc...
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post #55 of 2308 Old 02-11-2008, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vkristof View Post

Yes, that's what it seems like on the surface. Has anybody checked the G35 thread to see what the Intel side says about what is really required?

You need at least HDMI 1.3 to carry either TrueHD and DTS-HD bitstreams. The G35 only has HDMI 1.2a.

The content providers also want to see a protected path to the audio device so that you can't snoop the bitstream. All this needs to be supported by the drivers. The G35 does not have a protected path. While an HDMI 1.2a board can't carry TrueHD and DTS-HD bitstreams anyway, if it had a protected path, a player could send 24-bit 192kHz 7.1 channel LPCM without downsampling. Actually, it appears that Arcsoft and Nero may not downsample, so I am not sure whether Hollywood really requires this, or if Cyberlink is being overly cautious.

Finally, the software player (whether Cyberlink, Nero, or Arcsoft) needs to be able to take control of the HDMI port in exclusive mode, like it can today for an SPDIF port. Actually, there are some similarities between sending undecoded Dolby Digital and DTS streams over SPDIF and undecoded TrueHD and DTS-HD streams over HDMI.

-Dave
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post #56 of 2308 Old 02-11-2008, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpHeRe31459 View Post

NVIDIA actually worked to get PureVideo support in Nero and PowerDVD before ATI did, so PureVideo should be well suported.

I didn't notice any "PureVideo HD" check box in PowerDVD. Does PowerDVD detect PureVideo HD automatically? Or?
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post #57 of 2308 Old 02-11-2008, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vkristof View Post

I didn't notice any "PureVideo HD" check box in PowerDVD. Does PowerDVD detect PureVideo HD automatically? Or?

Uh it's there... The "acceleration" check box changes depending on what video card you have in there. If you have an NVIDIA card the check box reads "Enable hardware acceleration (NVIDIA PureVideo)" [see attached image], and with an ATI card it says "Enable hardware acceleration (ATI Avivo)" [link to image].
LL
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post #58 of 2308 Old 02-11-2008, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSM View Post

I didn't think that nvidia supported decode of true-HD etc... to LPCM in software? Otherwise why didn't they just say they supported DTS-MA, etc...

That's not up to NVIDIA, it's up to the player software... So PowerDVD Ultra, ArcSoft Total Media, etc.
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post #59 of 2308 Old 02-11-2008, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpHeRe31459 View Post

Uh it's there... The "acceleration" check box changes depending on what video card you have in there. If you have an NVIDIA card the check box reads "Enable hardware acceleration (NVIDIA PureVideo)" [see attached image], and with an ATI card it says "Enable hardware acceleration (ATI Avivo)" [link to image].

Gotcha.

Thanks. So now it's just waiting for either the 780G or 6200 to be available in the USA. and reading what the testers/etc. say.
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post #60 of 2308 Old 02-13-2008, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPlettner View Post

You need at least HDMI 1.3 to carry either TrueHD and DTS-HD bitstreams. The G35 only has HDMI 1.2a.

The content providers also want to see a protected path to the audio device so that you can't snoop the bitstream. All this needs to be supported by the drivers. The G35 does not have a protected path. While an HDMI 1.2a board can't carry TrueHD and DTS-HD bitstreams anyway, if it had a protected path, a player could send 24-bit 192kHz 7.1 channel LPCM without downsampling. Actually, it appears that Arcsoft and Nero may not downsample, so I am not sure whether Hollywood really requires this, or if Cyberlink is being overly cautious.

Finally, the software player (whether Cyberlink, Nero, or Arcsoft) needs to be able to take control of the HDMI port in exclusive mode, like it can today for an SPDIF port. Actually, there are some similarities between sending undecoded Dolby Digital and DTS streams over SPDIF and undecoded TrueHD and DTS-HD streams over HDMI.

-Dave

EDIT: Yup, what he said
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