GeForce 8200 - 8 Channel LPCM Output Fully Supported!! - Page 34 - AVS Forum
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post #991 of 2308 Old 05-23-2008, 10:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Finally I succeeded in perfect BD playback with PowerDVD 8 without using a discrete graphics (of course with multichannel lossless HDMI audio). The point turned out to be using Phenom (I used the cheapest Phenom X3 8450, ~$150). That's why Bahn Yuki succeeded. 32-bit vs 64-bit is totally irrelevant. More report later.

There are still a couple of problems:

- Windows always sends 7.1 LPCM regardless of the source.
- Hybrid SLI (with my XFX GeForce 8500 GT card) does not work yet, at least in the abit board. Maybe I should try the ASUS board to see what's going on. But the main purpose of Hybrid SLI in HTPC is to get perfect post-processing. Using Phenom may negate the necessity of Hybrid SLI, just like AMD 780G chipset.

Are you saying you are getting both perfect BR playback AND multichannel PCM, both via a single HDMI cable as long as you are using a Phenom processor?

I have a phenom, I think I will get a 8200 board and do a test with Arcosft's TMT.
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post #992 of 2308 Old 05-23-2008, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Are you saying you are getting both perfect BR playback AND multichannel PCM, both via a single HDMI cable as long as you are using a Phenom processor?

I have a phenom, I think I will get a 8200 board and do a test with Arcosft's TMT.

I've been doing this for weeks with my Phenom 9550. BTW I've switched over to PowerDVD 8 Ultra, you can see my results up above.
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post #993 of 2308 Old 05-23-2008, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Finally I succeeded in perfect BD playback with PowerDVD 8 without using a discrete graphics (of course with multichannel lossless HDMI audio). The point turned out to be using Phenom (I used the cheapest Phenom X3 8450, ~$150).

Wasn't software playback of BD with HDMI audio available on G35 boards?

I thought the whole point of these motherboards was HDMI video acceleration so that we could use a low power CPU and still get HDMI LPCM audio.

Using a 95W triple core processor with a 'loud' fan isn't what I want in my living room HTPC.
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post #994 of 2308 Old 05-23-2008, 10:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Are you saying you are getting both perfect BR playback AND multichannel PCM, both via a single HDMI cable as long as you are using a Phenom processor?

I have a phenom, I think I will get a 8200 board and do a test with Arcosft's TMT.

Yes, both perfect BD playback (perfect HA, no AnyDVD HD required) and perfect multichannel LPCM HDMI audio at the same time via a single HDMI cable with:

- Phenom X3 8450 2.1GHz
- GeForce 8200 (no other graphics unlike my previous attempt)
- PowerDVD 8 Ultra (build 1622)
- Vista SP1 (32-bit or 64-bit, it doesn't matter at all)

The processor is running only at 1.05GHz and 1.04V (because of Cool'n'Quiet), the CPU utilization is 30-60%, the picture quality is equivalent to GeForce 9600 GT.

Yeah, I am pretty sure that Bahn Yuki got the same excellent result some time ago.
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post #995 of 2308 Old 05-23-2008, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahn Yuki View Post

ECS has eSATA and 32GB ram max. all boards have PCIe 2.0 and Hybrid SLi. Nothing wrong with your board, but I went with the ECS because everyone's having issues.

I'm using a Brisbane 5000BE, you bet your ass I'll be overclocking as I'm pairing this board with a 9800GTX. This board will be my gaming rig and I don't intend to use multi channel LPCM since I'm placing an Audigy 2 ZS in it. But for testing purposes I will use my friend's 360 HD-DVD drive to see if I can get it going WITHOUT a Phenom.

Well, there seems to be a typo @ Newegg, huh? For your ECS board, it states

Quote:


Maximum Memory Supported: 8GB

nvmind, the ECS spec says

Quote:


4 x 240-pin DDR2 DIMM socket support up to 32GB*
* (Due to the DRAM maximum size is 2GB at present, the memory maximum size we have tested is 8GB)

both mobos have 4 bays so doesn't matter.

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post #996 of 2308 Old 05-23-2008, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phigment View Post

Using a 95W triple core processor with a 'loud' fan isn't what I want in my living room HTPC.

A loud fan? Don't be kidding. My Phenom X3 is running at 1.05GHz & 1.04V with a passive cooling (Scythe Ninja Mini + SilverStone GD01-MX). Yeah, the temperature is a bit high, around 55°C when playing BD (room at 25°C). Admittedly the processor is the weakest part of this platform, but it still runs elegantly.
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post #997 of 2308 Old 05-23-2008, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

-snip-
- Vista SP1 (32-bit or 64-bit, it doesn't matter at all)
-snip-

renethx, buddy, only time this matter is when you are using more than 4 GB of ram, right? 32 bit OS limit?

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post #998 of 2308 Old 05-23-2008, 11:13 AM
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So why would having a Phenom make any difference in the control panel as to how many channels you can select? My HDDVD drive will be waiting for me when I get home from work this afternoon so I will be testing with a non-phenom (X2 5200) in a few hours.

Where can I find the past drivers for my chipset? The ones that have 5.1/7.1 in the control panel. Again, I am running river version x.25 and only have the option for stereo.
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post #999 of 2308 Old 05-23-2008, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney_DaPurple1 View Post

renethx, buddy, only time this matter is when you are using more than 4 GB of ram, right? 32 bit OS limit?

Yes, if you want to use all the 4GB, you need 64-bit. My point is that 32-bit 2GB is as good as 64-bit 4GB for perfect BD playback.
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post #1000 of 2308 Old 05-23-2008, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_c View Post

So why would having a Phenom make any difference in the control panel as to how many channels you can select?

In my system I can see only two choices: Stereo and 7.1 Surround (with 175.16 driver) with both Phenom and Athlon.

NVidia HDMI Audio Driver - Vista 32/64 version 1.00.00.16 is here. Unzip it and Control panel > Device manager > HDMI audio controller > right click - update driver > turn to the folder > click OK. You may need first unistall the driver (but don't delete the driver).
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post #1001 of 2308 Old 05-23-2008, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

In my system I can see only two choices: Stereo and 7.1 Surround (with 175.16 driver) with both Phenom and Athlon.

NVidia HDMI Audio Driver - Vista 32/64 version 1.00.00.16 is here. Unzip it and Control panel > Device manager > HDMI audio controller > right click - update driver > turn to the folder > click OK. You may need first unistall the driver (but don't delete the driver).

Gotcha, I had found that version of the driver online, so I will try it out ASAP this evening. Thanks for the help.

One question though, I have a 5.1 receiver...will that matter if Vista is sending a 7.1 signal?
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post #1002 of 2308 Old 05-23-2008, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_c View Post

So why would having a Phenom make any difference in the control panel as to how many channels you can select? My HDDVD drive will be waiting for me when I get home from work this afternoon so I will be testing with a non-phenom (X2 5200) in a few hours.

Where can I find the past drivers for my chipset? The ones that have 5.1/7.1 in the control panel. Again, I am running river version x.25 and only have the option for stereo.

I was wondering the same? Since when does the processor play a role in our ability to play Multichannel PCM audio?

So as of now, you also need to have a Phenom in order to have this working?
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post #1003 of 2308 Old 05-23-2008, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_c View Post

Gotcha, I had found that version of the driver online, so I will try it out ASAP this evening. Thanks for the help.

One question though, I have a 5.1 receiver...will that matter if Vista is sending a 7.1 signal?

My SONY STR-DG810 is only a 6.1 system, but it lights up 7.1 when getting PCM. Now when playing a movie, it only lights up 5.1, and the rear center is completely silent.

Renethx, how are you getting around not using Anydvd HD? It gives me a garbled picture when trying to play it in PowerDVD, works fine in Nero 8 however. I don't mind using Anydvd though...
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post #1004 of 2308 Old 05-23-2008, 12:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JuMz View Post

I was wondering the same? Since when does the processor play a role in our ability to play Multichannel PCM audio?

So as of now, you also need to have a Phenom in order to have this working?

[pure speculation] It is due to it being an entirely integrated solution. The CPU does a great deal of post processing on the video, so a phenom is needed to obtain that processing. This is due to the huge bus available to the phenom. This same bus is used for part of the sound processing. A small bus means issues.
[/pure speculation]
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post #1005 of 2308 Old 05-23-2008, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuMz View Post

I was wondering the same? Since when does the processor play a role in our ability to play Multichannel PCM audio?

So as of now, you also need to have a Phenom in order to have this working?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

[pure speculation] It is due to it being an entirely integrated solution. The CPU does a great deal of post processing on the video, so a phenom is needed to obtain that processing. This is due to the huge bus available to the phenom. This same bus is used for part of the sound processing. A small bus means issues.
[/pure speculation]

The Phenom's have a faster HyperThreading link between the chipset and processor. Since the memory controller is in the CPU, the chipset has to go through the processor to access memory, and therefore it will have greater memory bandwidth when a Phenom is installed, regardless of CPU power.

On the video side, this makes a difference in available post-processing options with the 780G and supposedly with the new nVidia IGP as well. There might be a related limitation with video+audio too...?
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post #1006 of 2308 Old 05-23-2008, 02:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahn Yuki View Post

Renethx, how are you getting around not using Anydvd HD? It gives me a garbled picture when trying to play it in PowerDVD, works fine in Nero 8 however. I don't mind using Anydvd though...

When I ran BD/HD Advisor with Athlon X2 4200+ and GeForce 8200, I got "Graphics Card Driver: BD-Ready, No" and I couldn't run PowerDVD even with AnyDVD HD because of "Incompatible graphics driver".


If I use Phenom X3 8450+ with the same graphics driver 175.16, suddenly every item becomes "BD ready" or "Unknown" at least, and I can play BD movies fine (without AnyDVD, of course).


You use ASUS M3N78-EMH HDMI, right? I have seen that eVGA GeForce 7150 motherboard suffers from broken HDCP (a widely known problem), while the abit GeForce 7100 (basically identical with 7150, slightly lower graphics core clock) motherboard works fine. So HDCP is broken or not surely depends on each motherboard.
LL
LL
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post #1007 of 2308 Old 05-23-2008, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
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post #1008 of 2308 Old 05-23-2008, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

I summarized my results in this post:

Phenom Rules!! - Perfect BD Playback and 7.1 HDMI Audio with One HDMI Cable, Finally!

Hardware acceleration works fine and AnyDVD HD is necessary

I think you missed a "not" as in AnyDVD HD is not necessary.

BTW, do you mind adding what the symptoms were with a regular dual-core AMD AM2 cpu? I don't want a phenom since it adds 60-70 bux for my future build.
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post #1009 of 2308 Old 05-23-2008, 05:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by stoked View Post

I think you missed a "not" as in AnyDVD HD is not necessary.

BTW, do you mind adding what the symptoms were with a regular dual-core AMD AM2 cpu? I don't want a phenom since it adds 60-70 bux for my future build.

Corrected, thanks.

Athlon X2 4200+

- PowerDVD can't play BD movies because of "Incompatible graphics driver". Standard DVD is OK. This could be a problem of the graphics driver.
- Nero 8 ShowTime: Needs AnyDVD. Lots of stuttering (with both Athlon and Phenom).
- TMT: can play but with black screen. TMT is very good with Phenom, maybe better than PowerDVD.

I will test Athlon X2 4850e and the ASUS or BIOSTAR board next week.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Corrected, thanks.

Athlon X2 4200+

- PowerDVD can't play BD movies because of "Incompatible graphics driver". Standard DVD is OK. This could be a problem of the abit mb.
- Nero 8 ShowTime: Needs AnyDVD. Lots of stuttering (with both Athlon and Phenom).
- TMT: can play but with black screen. TMT is very good with Phenom, maybe better than PowerDVD.

I will test Athlon X2 4850e and the ASUS or BIOSTAR board next week.

Did you try try PowerDVD and TMT with AnyDVDHD as well? They both still have problems with AnyDVD?
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Interesting results. Here is what I get:

TMT - Just audio. Plays with a black screen.
Nero Showtime - Locks up and closes.
Power DVD - When I select the drive as my source, it thinks for a second and then says "File Mode" and nothing happens.

No difference between the Nvidia drivers. This blows though. I really did not want to buy a new processor to play BD/HD DVD.
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post #1012 of 2308 Old 05-23-2008, 06:07 PM
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so what you going to do next? new phenom or discrete graphic card?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_c View Post

Interesting results. Here is what I get:

TMT - Just audio. Plays with a black screen.
Nero Showtime - Locks up and closes.
Power DVD - When I select the drive as my source, it thinks for a second and then says "File Mode" and nothing happens.

No difference between the Nvidia drivers. This blows though. I really did not want to buy a new processor to play BD/HD DVD.

I wouldn't buy another CPU just yet. We should get a hold of someone that has a line with Nvidia. Maybe Gary Keyes from anandtech?
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post #1014 of 2308 Old 05-23-2008, 06:28 PM
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ok, the solution seems to be using phenom procesor, but one question:
does coreavc uses 3 cores??if the coreavc only uses 2 cores (as i think) will the phenom move properly heavy 1080p (10-13 gbs)rips without HA??? for example a x3 8450?? or better to take something faster??
thanks
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post #1015 of 2308 Old 05-23-2008, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stoked View Post

I wouldn't buy another CPU just yet. We should get a hold of someone that has a line with Nvidia. Maybe Gary Keyes from anandtech?

Hopefully this will be a simple driver update. I won't be buying the new CPU yet...I am broke from buying the MOBO and BD drive!

How do I let Nvidia/Cyberlink know about the problem?

Edit: I submitted a bug report to Nvidia saying that the driver only works for hidef playback with a phenom processor.
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post #1016 of 2308 Old 05-23-2008, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Finally I succeeded in getting perfectly smooth BD playback and multichannel lossless HDMI audio without resorting to a discrete graphics (so only a single HDMI cable for audio/video). The point turned out to be using Phenom (that's the reason why Bahn Yuki was successful; he uses Phenom X4 9550).

Why Phenom?

Phenom (K10) processor is the successor to the Athlon (K8) processor. So far it has not been so successful for various reasons, but there are at least two great advantages from the viewpoint of HTPC (apart from the increased number of cores):

- K10 processor uses HyperTransport 3.0 which nearly doubles the bandwidth between IGP and system memory. Because of this the performance of IGP greatly increases.
- Split power planes for CPU cores and the on-die memory controller for more effective power management (Enhanced PowerNow!), allowing the cores and the memory controller to scale power consumption up or down independently. That means no more stuttering when CPU clock changes.

Confuguration

- Phenom X3 8450 2.1GHz
- GeForce 8200 (no discrete graphics unlike my previous attempt, Any GeForce graphics card + GeForce 8200 HDMI audio work together perfectly!)
- PowerDVD 8 Ultra (build 1622)
- Vista SP1 (32-bit or 64-bit, it doesn't matter at all)
- Spider-Man 3, Dolby TrueHD sound track

Results

The processor is running only at 1.05GHz and 1.04V (because Cool'n'Quiet or Enhanced PowerNow! works), the CPU utilization is 30-60%, the picture quality is equivalent to GeForce 9600 GT. Hardware acceleration works fine and AnyDVD HD is unnecessary. The processor's TDP is 95W, but it runs very cool at BD playback (~55°C with room temperature 25°C, passively cooled with Scythe Ninja Mini).


Remaining Issues

There are a couple of problems yet:

- Windows always sends 7.1 LPCM regardless of the source (the driver problem).
- Hybrid SLI (with my XFX GeForce 8500 GT card) does not work yet, at least in the abit board. Maybe I should try the ASUS board to see what's going on. But the main purpose of Hybrid SLI in HTPC is to get perfect post-processing. Using Phenom may negate the necessity of Hybrid SLI, just like AMD 780G chipset (test is needed).

Outstanding! T

Though you will not meet AbMagFab's acceptance criteria unless it's full 1080p output along with the 7.1 HD audio over HDMI. Nothing else is worthwhile after all.
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post #1017 of 2308 Old 05-23-2008, 07:30 PM
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Got my parts in and I'm currently installing Vista 64 Ultimate SP1. As I stated earlier this rig is the ECS 8200A with a 5000BE. Also I'm putting in a 9800GTX as I'm eager to test "Hybrid Power". Right now I have the ECS connected via HDMI to my Olevia 27" LCD-HDTV(my PC monitor, lol). Tomorrow I should be able to get my friend's 360 HD-DVD player and will run through the gamut on why one needs a Phenom in order for Blu/HD playback.

So far I lke this ECS board, it posted up with HDMI outputting video(unlike the Asus which needed a BIOS update)...and I did have to get a driver for RAID to be seen by the Vista installer. I'll be posting updates as the night goes along, especially for Hybrid Power as some of us want HTPC + GAMING in one box.
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post #1018 of 2308 Old 05-23-2008, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

I summarized my results in this post:

Phenom Rules!! - Perfect BD Playback and 7.1 HDMI Audio with One HDMI Cable, Finally!

renethx, thanks for reporting this. Do you have access to detail enhancement and noise reduction in the nVidia control panel with the Phenom? Also, did you test SD DVD playback and if so, does that look as good as a 9600GT too?
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post #1019 of 2308 Old 05-23-2008, 07:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stoked View Post

Did you try try PowerDVD and TMT with AnyDVDHD as well? They both still have problems with AnyDVD?

All three players were tested with AnyDVD HD on and off. PowerDVD gave the same error message. Nero works only under AnyDVD. I don't remember TMT, but blank screen at best.
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I have the ECS GF8200A board w/ Phenom X3 8450. I'm having trouble with stuttering video/audio with anything I play with HDMI(audio/video) connected to my Westinghouse 26" HDTV(I'm not using a AV reciever, just the HDTV). MP3, AVI, MPEG, DVD(sorry, no BD or HD yet)---all studder. However, If I use the analog VGA and analog audio line out, they play perfect(only if the HDMI cable is disconnected). Anyone elese having the same problems?

I'm running Vista Ultimate x64 and use VLC, VMC and WMP to play media.
bleggett29 is offline  
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