GeForce 8200 - 8 Channel LPCM Output Fully Supported!! - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 2308 Old 02-26-2008, 12:43 AM
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VKristof: Thanx for great info!

I'm also a bit concerned with the realtek audio chips beeing unable (right?) to adjust delays for different channels (ie. spekaerdistance / delay etc.)

If I get a discrete audio card like one from m-audio with 24/192 khz and analogue outputs would full hd audio be possible?

Allthough I'd prefer to be able to use the onboard audio because I need the two pci slots for tv cards. Or is there audio cards that can be put on pci-express slot?

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post #92 of 2308 Old 02-26-2008, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mascot View Post

VKristof: Thanx for great info!

I'm also a bit concerned with the realtek audio chips beeing unable (right?) to adjust delays for different channels (ie. spekaerdistance / delay etc.)

If I get a discrete audio card like one from m-audio with 24/192 khz and analogue outputs would full hd audio be possible?

Allthough I'd prefer to be able to use the onboard audio because I need the two pci slots for tv cards. Or is there audio cards that can be put on pci-express slot?

I can't comment on the realtek audio chip but there are audio cards available with PCIe x1 inrefaces.

I'm sure that you'll find PCIe audio cards threads in this forum.

Keep in mind that PCI slots will eventually go away, just like ISA slots dissapeared ~8 years ago.
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post #93 of 2308 Old 02-27-2008, 12:50 PM
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Okay - with 8-channel analog output from my PC, it bypasses my AVR's ability to do things like change LFE, and all the speaker calibration. So I need to duplicate that on my PC.

With 8-channel LPCM over HDMI - will it now go through my AVR's pre-pro features? This currently works for every other component I use that is connected via HDMI for video and audio.

Also - is there an Intel-based version of the 8200/8300 MB? I'd rather not buy another CPU for this, and just replace my MB.

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post #94 of 2308 Old 02-27-2008, 12:55 PM
 
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nVidia will be making Intel based boards a few months after the AMD ones.
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post #95 of 2308 Old 02-27-2008, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

With 8-channel LPCM over HDMI - will it now go through my AVR's pre-pro features? This currently works for every other component I use that is connected via HDMI for video and audio.

If other LPCM HDMI sources do it, then yes so will the GeForce 8200's output.
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post #96 of 2308 Old 02-27-2008, 08:54 PM
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NVIDIA_C79.DEV_0860.1 = "NVIDIA MCP79/7A ENG"
NVIDIA_C79.DEV_0860.2 = "NVIDIA MCP79/7A ENG "
NVIDIA_C79.DEV_0862.1 = "NVIDIA MCP79SLI"
NVIDIA_C79.DEV_0862.2 = "NVIDIA MCP79SLI "
NVIDIA_C79.DEV_0866.1 = "NVIDIA MCP79MX"
NVIDIA_C79.DEV_0866.2 = "NVIDIA MCP79MX "
NVIDIA_C79.DEV_0867.1 = "NVIDIA MCP79MH"
NVIDIA_C79.DEV_0867.2 = "NVIDIA MCP79MH "
NVIDIA_C79.DEV_0868.1 = "NVIDIA MCP79MV"
NVIDIA_C79.DEV_0868.2 = "NVIDIA MCP79MV "
NVIDIA_C79.DEV_0870.1 = "NVIDIA MCP79U"
NVIDIA_C79.DEV_0870.2 = "NVIDIA MCP79U "

A ton of Intel version of the Geforce 8200/8300 chipset is already supported in the latest leaked Forceware 174.20 drivers, just a matter of time to be launched. I wouldn't get any AMD cpus atm, 45nm Penryn is amazing with high performance and low idle/full load power consumption.
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post #97 of 2308 Old 02-27-2008, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDGT View Post

A ton of Intel version of the Geforce 8200/8300 chipset is already supported in the latest leaked Forceware 174.20 drivers, just a matter of time to be launched. I wouldn't get any AMD cpus atm, 45nm Penryn is amazing with high performance and low idle/full load power consumption.

AMD is getting spanked now, but they are reacting by aggressive price cutting, and if you don't want to wait 3 months for the intel version to come out, I think it should work fine. Besides, I have some old X2's that are being replaced by Intel systems so I have an extra one around...
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post #98 of 2308 Old 02-27-2008, 10:16 PM
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Let's just hope this time NVIDIA doesn't gimp these versions of their Intel chipsets. The 7025 and 7050 for Intel were a total joke, they only had single channel memory controllers! And they never made a 7050PV for Intel.
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post #99 of 2308 Old 02-27-2008, 10:49 PM - Thread Starter
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An ASUS GeForce 8200 motherboard, M3N78-EMH HDMI, was uploaded in the ASUS site.

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post #100 of 2308 Old 02-27-2008, 10:58 PM - Thread Starter
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So far information on MCP79/MCP7A is very scarce. The following two are the main sources on them:

- DigTimes - Nvidia to launch MCP7A in April, MCP7C in August (January 8, 2008)

Quote:


With the MCP73 failing to pose a strong challenge to the Intel 3-series, Nvidia will launch IGP (integrated graphics processing) versions of its MCP7A and MCP7C chipset series for the Intel platform in April and August, respectively, according to sources with motherboard makers.

The sources revealed that the MCP7A to be launched April will have two IGP versions, the MCP7A-U and MCP7A-S, both of which will support

Intel 1333MHz FSB, DirectX 10, HDMI, DVI, HDCP, and PureVideo HD. While the MCP73 only features a single-channel memory controller, the MCP7A will feature a dual-channel controller, the sources said, adding that it also supports Hybrid SLI technology.

Free on board (FOB) prices for motherboards based on the MCP7A-U will be about

US$80, while motherboards based on the MCP7A-S will be priced in the US$70-75 range, the sources said. Nvidia is confident that the MCP7A series will pose a strong challenge to Intel's G45, which is expected to be launched in the second quarter, the sources added.

The MCP7C to be unveiled in August will support Intel 1333MHz FSB and feature a single-channel memory controller supporting a maximum speed of DDR2-800 , the sources said. It will also feature HDMI, DVI, HDCP, PureVideo HD, with motherboards based on the version having FOB prices of US$60-65, the sources added.

Nvidia is also developing a MCP7A-H part that does not have a built-in graphics core. MCP7A-H will support 1333MHz FSB and feature a maximum DDR2-800 single-channel controller, the sources said.

- OCWorkBench – MCP7A to improve on MCP73 specs and performance (July 11, 2007)

Quote:


NVIDIA released the MCP73 for Intel LGA775 a few months ago. Due to the poor specs of this chipset, the MCP73 is not highly sought after by mainboard manufacturers.

NVIDIA probably knows that MCP73 lacks PureVideo and it's support of Single channel DDR2 is not competitive enough for Intel users to switch to NVIDIA based chipset. Thus, they intend to release an upgraded version of MCP73, which will be known as MCP 7A.

MCP7A has 3 editions MCP7A-U. MCP7A-S and MCP7A-H. MCP7A-H is a discrete without video and it supports FSB1333 dual channel DDR2-800. It will also support PCIe 2.0 and comes with PCIe x16 slot.

MCP7A-U and -S comes with integrated video GF8X00. It is unsure what class of GeForce 8 it will be using. It could be in the range of 8400 performance.

It supports DX10, Purevideo HD, HDMI, Displayport, DVI and VGA out. It supports FSB 1333, Dual channel DDR2, PCie 2.0. Other features include SATA2, GbE, 12 USB ports.

MCP7A is scheduled for Q1 2008.


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post #101 of 2308 Old 02-27-2008, 11:14 PM - Thread Starter
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post #102 of 2308 Old 02-27-2008, 11:58 PM
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If MCP7A-U boards are available in April, is it really worth the wait? For HTPC general use (no games) ie. playback of movies & music I don't see any real difference between for example the Geforce 8200 and the 8300/8400 graphics onboard GPU's...

I'm smelling AMD 4850e and MCP78 or RS780 motherboard within two weeks for my new rig... I dont care about audio support because I need a discrete soundcard to use as prepro anyway.

Also, comparisons between purevideo HD and AVIVO HD has been done on many occasions and the difference seems to be ATI advantage in more effective hardware acceleration allthough Nvidia gets better reviews in the detail enhancement, upscaling and deinterlacing departments.

The better hardware acceleration in AVIVO HD won't make a difference if you're looking at CPU's in the range of "x264 1080p"-capable ones (2.5-3.0 Ghz dual cores) anyway, or am I wrong here???

I'm getting atleast a AMD Athlon 4850e (2.5 Ghz) anyway...

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post #103 of 2308 Old 02-28-2008, 03:31 AM - Thread Starter
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It looks like MCP7A is a very ambitious chipset family.

- MCP7A-U and MCP7A-S are mainstream chipsets.
- MCP7A-P and MCP7A-O support both DDR2 and DDR3 SDRAM.
- MCP7A-SLI and MCP7A-GL support SLI. That could be an improved replacement of nForce 750i SLI (support for Hybrid SLI and an improved "soughbridge"; truely equivalent to nForce 750a SLI for AMD).

- VR-Zone - Nvidia MCP7A Line-Up; Hybrid SLI For Intel (February 28, 2008)

Quote:



Nvidia MCP7A is the single-chip Hybrid SLI solution for Intel processors while MCP78 is for Hybrid SLI solution for AMD processors. After the launch of the nForce 790i (C73) chipset at CeBIT, the MCP7A will be next in line slated for launch in Q2. The key features of MCP7A are integrated DX10 capable GPU core supporting SM4.0 and VP 3.0, Hybrid SLI and SLI technology, PCIe 2.0 up to 20 lanes, 12 USB 2.0 ports, 6 SATA II ports, HDMI/DisplayPort support. There are as many as 8 SKUs planned for MCP7A and the most high end are the MCP7A-SLI and MCP7A-GL supporting SLI technology coupled with higher performance iGPU cores.Right now, motherboard makers are having A01 samples which are still buggy and there is a B1-step coming which fix most of the bugs.


LL
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post #104 of 2308 Old 02-28-2008, 06:14 AM
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Now I'm totally confused...

- What's the AMD model numbers versus the Intel model numbers? The MCP vs. the nVidia 8200/8300 is getting really confusing.

- What's the current expected timeframe for the AMD v. Intel MB's?

- Do they all support integrated audio and video over HDMI? I thought there were no significant differences here, but in the chart above, it looks like only one model supports 1080p, the rest only 1080i? That seems like a severe limitation?

Help! I want to buy a new MB with integrated audio (LPCM 7.1) and video (1080p/60) with video hardware acceleration ASAP! What should I be getting/waiting for, and when?
-Mark

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post #105 of 2308 Old 02-28-2008, 06:49 AM - Thread Starter
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NVIDIA Chipsets

MCP is the acronym of Media Communication Processor, used for codenames of NVIDIA chipsets. NVIDIA chipsets with integrated graphics for AMD and Intel are:
  • AMD: C51+MCP51 (GeForce 6-Series; a two-chip solution) —› MCP61 (GeForce 6-Series; a single-chip) —› MCP68 (GeForce 7-Series) —› MCP78 (GeForce 8-Series)
  • Intel: MCP73 (GeForce 7-Series) —› MCP79, later called MCP7A (GeForce 8-Series)
Please read my Guide, Appendices III & IV for details.

Rlease Date

- RS780 (AMD 780G) was released on March 4, 2008.
- MCP78 (GeForce 8200/8300 mGPU) is expected in April 2008
- Intel: MCP7A is expected in April 2008, G45 is expected in June 2008.

Supported Features

All four chipsets will support native HDMI (up to 1080p) and full hardware acceleration for VC-1 and H.264. Clearly some information in the chart of MCP7A is incorrect (like 1080i, but no meniton of 1080p). All but AMD will support 8-channel/24-bit/192kHz LPCM audio over HDMI. AMD 780G supports only 2-channel/16-bit/48kHz LPCM audio and 6-channel/16-bit/48kHz DD & DTS audio over HDMI.

NVIDIA chipsets offer another good feature called Hybrid SLI.

If you want a mb with IGP and full HA support ASAP, get either AMD 780G or GeForce 8200.
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post #106 of 2308 Old 02-28-2008, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

NVIDIA Chipsets

MCP is the acronym of Media Communication Processor, used for codenames of NVIDIA chipsets. NVIDIA chipsets with integrated graphics for AMD and Intel are:
  • AMD: C51+MCP51 (GeForce 6-Series; this is a two-chip solution) MCP61 (GeForce 6-Series) MCP68 (GeForce 7-Series) MCP78 (GeForce 8-Series)
  • Intel: MCP73 (GeForce 7-Series) MCP79, later called MCP7A (GeForce 8-Series)
Please read my Guide, Appendices III & IV for details.

Rlease Date

- AMD: RS780 (AMD 780G) and MCP78 (GeForce 8200 mGPU) are both expected on March 4, 2008.
- Intel: MCP7A is expected in April 2008, G45 is expected in June 2008.

Supported Features

All four chipsets will support native HDMI (up to 1080p) and full hardware acceleration for VC-1 and H.264. Clearly some information in the chart of MCP7A is incorrect (like 1080i, but no meniton of 1080p). All but AMD will support 8-channel/24-bit/192kHz LPCM audio over HDMI. AMD 780G supports 2-channel/16-bit/48kHz LPCM audio and 6-channel/16-bit/48kHz DD & DTS.

If you want a mb with IGP and full HA support ASAP, get either AMD 780G or GeForce 8200.

Are you saying the 8200/8300 (and the other AMD MB's) won't support 8-channel LPCM over HDMI?

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post #107 of 2308 Old 02-28-2008, 07:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

Are you saying the 8200/8300 (and the other AMD MB's) won't support 8-channel LPCM over HDMI?

No, "All but AMD" = "MCP78, MCP7A and G45".
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post #108 of 2308 Old 02-28-2008, 07:24 AM
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Is nobody else excited/intrigued by the mention of a Purevideo Codec that will include hardware acceleration? That would mean no longer being locked into PowerDVD for decoding, wouldn't it?
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post #109 of 2308 Old 02-28-2008, 07:26 AM
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He means AMD 780G chipset can't do 8 channel LPCM over HDMI. Which is deliciously ironic since ATI hyped their so called "native HDMI" and built-in integrated audio processing on all R6xx GPUs but they can't even get that implementation right on their cards and motherboards. Only 2 channels? I might as well use SPDIF instead.
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post #110 of 2308 Old 02-28-2008, 07:29 AM
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Let's hope this new Asus M3N78-EMH HDMI doesn't have all the growing pains the G35 based P5E-VM HDMI has been having. If the price point is less than $100, this board will definitely be 'The One!'
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post #111 of 2308 Old 02-28-2008, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

No, "All but AMD" = "MCP78, MCP7A and G45".

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDGT View Post

He means AMD 780G chipset can't do 8 channel LPCM over HDMI. Which is deliciously ironic since ATI hyped their so called "native HDMI" and built-in integrated audio processing on all R6xx GPUs but they can't even get that implementation right on their cards and motherboards. Only 2 channels? I might as well use SPDIF instead.

Okay, so next week I should be able to get an 8200. What's the main difference between the 8200 and 8300 (which I thought I read somewhere, but you only list the 8200)?

Oh yeah, and I'm AMD CPU illiterate - what's something equivalent in processing power to a C2D 2.4/2.6? No OC is necessary with the full graphics HA on these MB's I wouldn't think, so a CPU in this range should be more than enough.

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post #112 of 2308 Old 02-28-2008, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

Okay, so next week I should be able to get an 8200. What's the main difference between the 8200 and 8300 (which I thought I read somewhere, but you only list the 8200)?

Oh yeah, and I'm AMD CPU illiterate - what's something equivalent in processing power to a C2D 2.4/2.6? No OC is necessary with the full graphics HA on these MB's I wouldn't think, so a CPU in this range should be more than enough.

I think the 8300 is the 'U' model (versus 'S') with faster graphics core.

I'm not sure it's the equivalent of the C2D 2.4/2.6, but it's a good solid CPU for an HTPC - Athlon 64 X2 5000+ Brisbane 2.6GHz 65W.
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post #113 of 2308 Old 02-28-2008, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speqtre View Post

I think the 8300 is the 'U' model (versus 'S') with faster graphics core.

I'm not sure it's the equivalent of the C2D 2.4/2.6, but it's a good solid CPU for an HTPC - Athlon 64 X2 5000+ Brisbane 2.6GHz 65W.

Quick questions:
- Will the 8300 be released at the same time as the 8200?

- What's the difference between "Brisbane" and "Windsor" AMD CPU's? (I assume the 8200/8300 will be Socket AM2?)

- What's the difference between, for example, these two CPU's (other than the box color):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103191
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103228
?

Thanks!
-Mark

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post #114 of 2308 Old 02-28-2008, 08:17 AM
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Those are both Windsor chips. The "Black" edition is supposed to have better overclocking capabilities. It does not come with the fan. The other one comes with a fan. Other than that, they are the same chip.

The Windor chips have 2x1MB L2 cache and have a 90nm die cast. The Brisbane has 2x512KB L2 cache and have a 65nm die cast (uses less power).
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post #115 of 2308 Old 02-28-2008, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by vladd View Post

Those are both Windsor chips. The "Black" edition is supposed to have better overclocking capabilities. It does not come with the fan. The other one comes with a fan. Other than that, they are the same chip.

The Windor chips have 2x1MB L2 cache and have a 90nm die cast. The Brisbane has 2x512KB L2 cache and have a 65nm die cast (uses less power).

They all use the same socket/MB though? Too bad they don't make a low-power 2x1MB L2 chip...

So I guess I want the non-black box (I want a fan and don't really care about OC this machine), and just get the most expensive one I feel like buying, at a minimum the one you list above?

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post #116 of 2308 Old 02-28-2008, 08:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

Quick questions:
- Will the 8300 be released at the same time as the 8200?

- What's the difference between "Brisbane" and "Windsor" AMD CPU's? (I assume the 8200/8300 will be Socket AM2?)

- What's the difference between, for example, these two CPU's (other than the box color):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103191
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103228
?

- Yes, 8300 (formerly 9200; a higher graphics core version of 8200) will be released on March 4th.

- Windsor core is a 90 nm processor, while Brisbane is a 65 nm processor. Windsor is being discontinued. In general Brisbane is recommended because of lower heat output. Athlon 4850e 2.5GHz 45W (with slight? overclocking if necessary for playing back a certain mkv files) will be enough for almost all the HD HTPC tasks. For transcoding, Phenom is recommended.

- The Black Edition (ADX6400CZWOF) features unlocked multiplier and does not come with cooler, while in the normal version multiplier is upward locked. This is related to overclocking. With Black Edition, overclocking is possible in two ways: raise the mulitplier or raise clock generator, while with the normal version, only the latter is possbile.
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post #117 of 2308 Old 02-28-2008, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

They all use the same socket/MB though? Too bad they don't make a low-power 2x1MB L2 chip...

So I guess I want the non-black box (I want a fan and don't really care about OC this machine), and just get the most expensive one I feel like buying, at a minimum the one you list above?

If you're just building an HTPC on the 8200/8300, you will be better off with the Brisbane core, and with the HA on this board, why bother with anything more than 2.6Ghz?
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post #118 of 2308 Old 02-28-2008, 08:30 AM
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Yup, they use the same socket so yes, you can pretty much just get the best deal you can find. I personally went with a Windsor for the additional L2 cache (although it's probably not a major benefit to me). Power consumption/overclocking were not issues for me.
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post #119 of 2308 Old 02-28-2008, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

- Yes, 8300 (formerly 9200; a higher graphics core version of 8200) will be released on March 4th.

- Windsor core is a 90 nm processor, while Brisbane is a 65 nm processor. Windsor is being discontinued. In general Brisbane is recommended because of lower heat output. Athlon 4850e 2.5GHz (with slight overclocking if necessary for playing back a certain mkv files) will be enough for almost all the HD HTPC tasks. For transcoding, Phenom is recommended.

- The Black Edition (ADX6400CZWOF) features unlocked multiplier and does not come with cooler, while the normal version is upward locked multiplier.

Will the Phenom fit in the 8200/8300? It looks like it's socket AM2+? And when are the new Phenom's coming out (9550/9650)?

And I can't find a 4850e Athlon anywhere. Can you post a link to newegg or somewhere? Or is this another new CPU from them?

AMD seems way more confusing to me than Intel, but perhaps that's just my lack of using them recently.

TiVo is on it's way out - stream everything!
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post #120 of 2308 Old 02-28-2008, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Phenom is AM2+ and all the new mbs for AMD will be Socket AM2+. AM2+ is backward compatible with AM2; you can use a AM2 processor with a AM2+ mb and a AM2+ processor with a AM2 mb (with some limitations).

Phenom B3 stepping (9550/9650) is expected in Q2. 4850e will be released on March 4th.
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