The Official Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H RS780 mATX Thread - Page 21 - AVS Forum
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post #601 of 4430 Old 03-11-2008, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneakerx View Post

Does the DTS Connect feature of this board allow for converting the 7.1 HD Audio from blu ray to DTS 5.1 out from spdif? Or does it downsample even further to just two-channel?

DTS Connect converts any audio to DTS 5.1.
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post #602 of 4430 Old 03-11-2008, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davedelite View Post

Are there any good external cards that WILL DO 8 ch PCM or LPCM over HDMI? Presumably video cards? This MoBo won't work for me anyway since I need concurrent output of DVI/HDMI video AND component video. Hence, I am leaning towards the Sapphire Radeon HD 3470 because it is passive cooling and all and more that is needed for 1080p as well as concurrent output of 720p via component. However, not sure which, if any, video cards support 8 CH PCM over HDMI today, or if any are on the horizon. If some are on the horizon (that don't otherwise have a lot of fans, etc.) I will use IGP for now and hold off on the card since I could get by without component video out for a couple of months I suppose.....

There will be several solutions.

- GeForce 8200/8300/MCP7A (possibly combined with a discrete graphics like GeForce 9500 GT). Use the chipset for multichannel LPCM over HDMI. There may be a mb with component video out. Otherwise use a discrete card. (It is unconfirmed if this method, i.e. audio via onboard HDMI and video via a discrete card, works, however.)

- Auzen X-Tension HDMI 1.3. Some pictures. The drawback is it will be very pricey (Prelude + X-Tension > $200). Of course you need a video card.

- ASUS Xonar AV1 HDMI sound card. You need a video card.

- Video cards supporting multichannel LPCM or even Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD Master Audio bitstream over HDMI may appear this year. No confirmation yet however.
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post #603 of 4430 Old 03-11-2008, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

DTS Connect converts any audio to DTS 5.1.

Are you sure? I just found the following info on audioholics.com:

Quote:


A DTS Connect-enabled PC provides two audio benefits to the consumer: DTS Interactive and Neo:PC, for both multi-channel and stereo content. Taking full advantage of the maximum data throughput of the digital interface, DTS Interactive provides a single cable connection via S/PDIF digital audio output to a DTS-enabled surround sound system by encoding all audio into a DTS-compatible bitstream at 1.5Mbps. Neo:PC, based upon DTS' Neo:6 matrix surround technology, transforms any stereo content such as MP3, WMA or CD audio, into a 7.1-channel surround sound experience.

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post #604 of 4430 Old 03-11-2008, 09:26 AM
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DTS Neo is "faking" a 7.1 signal from a 2-channel source.

DTS Interactive is converting a 7.1 audio source into a 5.1 DTS signal.

The chipset provides both features. The DTS Interactive is the more useful of the two in the context of home theater.
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post #605 of 4430 Old 03-11-2008, 09:28 AM
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Thanks for the clarification.
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post #606 of 4430 Old 03-11-2008, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anonim View Post

Are you sure? I just found the following info on audioholics.com:

Surely DTS NEO:PC transforms 2-channel audio to up to 7.1 channel audio, but you must use analog to get 7.1.

DTS Interactive is restricted to 5.1 channel.
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post #607 of 4430 Old 03-11-2008, 09:43 AM
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Since we're on the topic of DTS Connect again, can anyone who has this board confirm whether the SPDIF output is locked at 48 kHz? Many other boards with the ALC889A that support DTS connect are apparently locked at 48 kHz and thus cannot output audio from CDs at their native sampling frequency (ie, no bit-perfect for audio).

Thanks!
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post #608 of 4430 Old 03-11-2008, 09:44 AM
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Not having any familiarity with release generations, I will ask the obvious.. When can we expect a 780g board with HDMI 1.3?

Is it theoretically possible to have a 'revision' to the chipset to add this capability, or must we wait for the next version of the chipset (i.e. 690g -> 780g -> ???)
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post #609 of 4430 Old 03-11-2008, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crabnebula View Post

Since we're on the topic of DTS Connect again, can anyone who has this board confirm whether the SPDIF output is locked at 48 kHz? Many other boards with the ALC889A that support DTS connect are apparently locked at 48 kHz and thus cannot output audio from CDs at their native sampling frequency (ie, no bit-perfect for audio).

I see "44.1kHz" in "Output Sampling Rates" (manual p. 86). Yeah, somebody please confirm it.
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post #610 of 4430 Old 03-11-2008, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anonim View Post

Not having any familiarity with release generations, I will ask the obvious.. When can we expect a 780g board with HDMI 1.3?

Is it theoretically possible to have a 'revision' to the chipset to add this capability, or must we wait for the next version of the chipset (i.e. 690g -> 780g -> ???)

Perhaps you have to wait for 880G.
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post #611 of 4430 Old 03-11-2008, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anonim View Post

Not having any familiarity with release generations, I will ask the obvious.. When can we expect a 780g board with HDMI 1.3?

If you want 1.3 for the deep colour feature it doesn't really matter since there is currently no source material or display that can benefit from it.
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post #612 of 4430 Old 03-11-2008, 10:05 AM
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As for deep color, I saw

bit-tech.net - PowerDVD audio downsampling explained

Quote:


The PC already doesn't support HDMI 1.3 because it cannot handle the 36-bit colour depths required for Deep Colour, since no Microsoft OS, including Vista, can recognise more than 24-bit RGB colour.

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post #613 of 4430 Old 03-11-2008, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Trio View Post

Yes, nice review at Anandtech by G Key.
And finally some reviews (3) at Newegg of the cheap ECS 780g board that I bought but won't receive for a few days. All very positive, but not based on much (if any) experience. I am looking forward to Key's look at the various 780 boards, including the J&W that is not distributed in US. Hope he will also try a Phenom 9100e for comparison with the 4580e dual core Athlon he used in current review.

I contacted J&W; they will be working with their US wholesale distributor about the board being sold in the US. I also suggested they try working with newegg

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HS Thompson
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post #614 of 4430 Old 03-11-2008, 10:52 AM
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Hi,
stupid question: If I need a Phenom CPU to get the best picture, wouldn't it be better to take a low power consumption board w/o GPU and put in a gc with 3450 or better gpu?

thanks
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post #615 of 4430 Old 03-11-2008, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

There will be several solutions.

- GeForce 8200/8300/MCP7A (possibly combined with a discrete graphics like GeForce 9500 GT). Use the chipset for multichannel LPCM over HDMI. There may be a mb with component video out. Otherwise use a discrete card. (It is unconfirmed if this method, i.e. audio via onboard HDMI and video via a discrete card, works, however.).........etc.

Thanks for the information. Helpful for sure. However, I am under the impression that the GeForce 8200 does PCM 5.1 (and is that even verified) and thus, down-converts any 7.1 TrueHD or DTS-MA to its 5.1 equivalent. Am I wrong? I would be elated to find out that I am and have verification that you can get PCM 7.1 from DTS-MA or TrueHD source material with the GeForce 8200. Also, don't know about the 8300 and the MCP7A but will they be rather equivalent to the 8200 and they are not released, correct? The only 8200 board I have seen in micro ATX is the ASUS M3N78-EMH HDMI.
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post #616 of 4430 Old 03-11-2008, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acidjazz1 View Post

Hi,
stupid question: If I need a Phenom CPU to get the best picture, wouldn't it be better to take a low power consumption board w/o GPU and put in a gc with 3450 or better gpu?

thanks

System A: Phenom + NB (with IGP)

System B: Low power Athlon + NB + Video card.

In all likelihood System B is going to consume more power.
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post #617 of 4430 Old 03-11-2008, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davedelite View Post

Thanks for the information. Helpful for sure. However, I am under the impression that the GeForce 8200 does PCM 5.1 (and is that even verified) and thus, down-converts any 7.1 TrueHD or DTS-MA to its 5.1 equivalent. Am I wrong? I would be elated to find out that I am and have verification that you can get PCM 7.1 from DTS-MA or TrueHD source material with the GeForce 8200. Also, don't know about the 8300 and the MCP7A but will they be rather equivalent to the 8200 and they are not released, correct? The only 8200 board I have seen in micro ATX is the ASUS M3N78-EMH HDMI.

So far the only source is Gary Key's blog where he said, "8-channel LPCM output is fully supported". Well, I am pretty sure that this is correct. It's hard to believe that 8200 supports 6-channel LPCM but does not support 8-channel as there is no technical reason for restricting audio to 6-channel (the situation is totally different from 2-channel LPCM on 780G where bandwidth limit by hardware seems to exist).

8300 is just a higher graphics core version of 8200. MCP7A is the Intel version of 8200/8300.
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post #618 of 4430 Old 03-11-2008, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fphredd View Post

I contacted J&W; they will be working with their US wholesale distributor about the board being sold in the US. I also suggested they try working with newegg

Put them in touch with me. I will be able to assist.
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post #619 of 4430 Old 03-11-2008, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by ChrisMorley View Post

Put them in touch with me. I will be able to assist.

Can you PM me your contact info (not exactly sure how that works)? I will forward to the same person I dealt with...and I'm sure I speak for many when I say THANKS for all your input to this forum!

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post #620 of 4430 Old 03-11-2008, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

So far the only source is Gary Key's blog where he said, "8-channel LPCM output is fully supported". Well, I am pretty sure that this is correct. It's hard to believe that 8200 supports 6-channel LPCM but does not support 8-channel as there is no technical reason for restricting audio to 6-channel (the situation is totally different from 2-channel LPCM on 780G where bandwidth limit by hardware seems to exist).

Are we clear on this then, even from this source Gary Key? Here is what I just saw from going to that link: "Also, 8-channel LPCM output is fully supported but transporting a TrueHD or DTS-HD (MA) audio stream is not available. Update - NVIDIA will not be support transporting a TrueHD or DTS-HD (MA) audio stream across HDMI as we thought."

It appears that for some reason NVIDIA will not be supporting TrueHD or DTS-HD (MA) from HDMI after decoding to 8-channel LPCM. Or, am I reading this wrong? That IS the only reason I want 8-channel LPCM over HDMI on a MB or card like this. Is this due to DRM issues? And, is this validation of the point I was going to make that even if there is no "techical" reason to restrict to 6-channel....or not provide 7.1 DTS-HD (MA) or TrueHD, that does not mean it will be enabled given there could be other legal constraints that would not surprise me (from experience) but would frustrate me.....
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post #621 of 4430 Old 03-11-2008, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvincent View Post

System A: Phenom + NB (with IGP)

System B: Low power Athlon + NB + Video card.

In all likelihood System B is going to consume more power.

Ok, thanks for the info
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post #622 of 4430 Old 03-11-2008, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx;13345957
So the HDMI audio of 780G seems to be limited by hardware.

- [B
View Post

LPCM 2-channel/16-bit/48kHz[/b] = 1.536Mb/s
- DTS = 1.536Mb/s
- Dolby Digital 5.1 = 640kb/s

The usual S/PDIF supports a wider bandwidth of 12.3Mb/s. Multichannel LPCM requires a bandwidth of:

- LPCM 8-channel/24-bit/192kHz = 36.9 Mb/s (= 8 x 24 x 192/1000)

HDMI 1.2 supports a bandwidth of 4.9Gb/s, video/audio combined, while HDMI 1.3 supports 10.2Gb/s.


I don't get this part. HDMI 1.1 has enough bandwdith for 7.1 LPCM 96/24. G35 could do it over HDMI 1.1.

Why couldn't 780G pass it over HDMI 1.2?

7.1 LPCM has nothing to do with HDMI 1.3a/b.

HDPLEX
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post #623 of 4430 Old 03-11-2008, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lymzy View Post

I don't get this part. HDMI 1.1 has enough bandwdith for 7.1 LPCM 96/24. G35 could do it over HDMI 1.1.

Why couldn't 780G pass it over HDMI 1.2?

7.1 LPCM has nothing to do with HDMI 1.3a/b.

I thought it's HDMI transmitter that restricts supporting audio formats, just like SiI1932. But I may be wrong. You may have a better idea how HD 3200 (and HD 2400/2600/3400/3600/3800) does not support 8-channel LPCM through HDMI.
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post #624 of 4430 Old 03-11-2008, 02:55 PM
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From reading these posts and looking at the pics of the MB, I seen there is NO component out on the board or adapter like the previous model had. Unfortunately my TV only accepts component for HD. Does anyone know if it is possible to use a DVI-I To Component Video Adapter or VGA to Component Video Adapter? If not, then I guess I am out of luck and have to wait to see if the RS780 has it or get the GA-MA69GM-S2H.
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post #625 of 4430 Old 03-11-2008, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by chooch5 View Post

From reading these posts and looking at the pics of the MB, I seen there is NO component out on the board or adapter like the previous model had. Unfortunately my TV only accepts component for HD. Does anyone know if it is possible to use a DVI-I To Component Video Adapter or VGA to Component Video Adapter? If not, then I guess I am out of luck and have to wait to see if the RS780 has it or get the GA-MA69GM-S2H.

You are correct there is no component out on this board. I am bummed about that as well. And from what I know A DVD-I dongle will not work. The board outputs DVI-D which is digital and cannot be converted to an analog component out with just an adapter. I think it is foolish that mb manufacturers feel that component out is obsolete.

sdcgmc
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post #626 of 4430 Old 03-11-2008, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

You may have a better idea how HD 3200 (and HD 2400/2600/3400/3600/3800) does not support 8-channel LPCM through HDMI.

I don't have any idea why no Mch LPCM over HDMI for 780G besides lazy to implement.

HDPLEX
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post #627 of 4430 Old 03-11-2008, 03:31 PM
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I've posted most of this as a follow up to the SPCR review of this board in this forum : http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums...ic.php?t=46828

For other people to get in on the thread and start a discussion the key points are here.

The board is a direct replacement for my Gigabyte 690v which I've previously posted about in this forum. I bought the 780g from Scan.co.uk as a drop in replacement. XP didn't like that so I did a repair install which worked fine. Later that week it was announced officially at CeBIT and hybrid crossfire to be Vista only so I switch to Vista.

Power readings, the setup :

Athlon64 x2 4000 (Brisbane), Gigabyte 780G, Pioneer DVDR-110, Seasonic S12 380, WD 160gb hard drive, AMD stock cpu fan, 12v 80cm case fan on low speed. Using the integrated 780g video card on DVI.

Vista Desktop (Aero OFF) idle is 40/41 watts CNQ ON
Vista Desktop (Aero OFF) idle is 50/52 watts CNQ OFF
Vista Desktop (Aero ON) idle is 41/42 watts CNQ ON
Vista Desktop (Aero ON) idle is 50/51 watts CNQ OFF

I quote two figures for the watts as it flickers between then. Interesting Aero doesn't really add any overhead.

As mentioned Vista on power saving mode keeps setting the minimum cpu idle to 100% from 5% which is annoying. This was mentioned in SPCR review.

I used Prime95 to try to max out to get a full cpu hammering power usage but I only ever hit about 70% on either cores. So I don't have a full load reading, suggestion on how to archive this are welcome.

With the Sapphire HD 3450

Vista Desktop (Aero OFF) idle is 53 watts CNQ ON

That heatsink on the 3450 is very hot even at desktop, not just in 3d stuff. 3dmark06 scored 1692.

With Aero off the system has run all evening with a hitch. With Aero on I suffered driver crashes but the desktop recovered it so I didn't have to reboot. With hyrbrid crossfire enable I suffered desktop crashes and a few instant reboots.

Some 3dmark06 scores for comparison :

690v mobo, ATI HD 2400, Cats 8.2, XP : 1373
780G mobo, Cats 8.3, XP : 1132
780G mobo, ATI HD 2400, Cats 8.3 Hybrid crossfire enabled, Vista : 2000'ish
780G mobo, ATI HD 3450, Cats 8.3, Vista : 1692
780G mobo, ATI HD 3450, Cats 8.3 Hybrid crossfire enabled, Vista :

Overall a great board, good 3d performance but cats 8.3 aren't stable in 3d mode.
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post #628 of 4430 Old 03-11-2008, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisMorley View Post

Put them in touch with me. I will be able to assist.

It is a really nice board and SidePort memory does help, especially is ultra budget solutions with single channel DDR2-800, almost as fast as dual channel without SidePort. It is interesting tech on the desktop, going to be a requirement in the notebooks. They are currently working with AMD on further BIOS improvements but if this board was in the US, Gigabyte and ASUS would have a run for their money.
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post #629 of 4430 Old 03-11-2008, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdcgmc View Post

You are correct there is no component out on this board. I am bummed about that as well. And from what I know A DVD-I dongle will not work. The board outputs DVI-D which is digital and cannot be converted to an analog component out with just an adapter. I think it is foolish that mb manufacturers feel that component out is obsolete.

sdcgmc

There is talk of the MSI 7411 board, based on the M780 (mobile equivilant of the 780G), which will have component-out on the motherboard. The 780G chipset itself apparently doesn't include support for component out.

Your other option is a transcoder, a seperate hardware device that will give you a component connection. However, they usually sell for around $150 so it defeats the purpose because you could just buy a video card for 1/3 of that and get component out.
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post #630 of 4430 Old 03-11-2008, 07:26 PM
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Can anyone tell me why (1) is better than (2)?

1. Full HDMI 1.3 spec audio over the HDMI cable.

2. Uncompressed 8 ch LPCM over the HDMI cable.

I do realize that only "SPDIF-level" audio can be used over HDMI with this motherboard.
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