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post #181 of 344 Old 02-28-2002, 01:03 AM
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I just grabbed the last Enterprise episode recorded in medium quality with Replayer.jar, edited it up with Womble 12/01, and burnt it with Nero. It plays fine on the PC, but my Daewoo 5700 player has problems with it. These may just be with the bitrate swings, but may not.

So, I then grabbed the same file with SwapDV using PC Mpeg tweaking. I ran this one through PVAStrumento, but when editing this new stream in Womble, my audio gets out of synch?! Strange.

Right now I am taking that first file, from replayer.jar and edited with womble, and running each of those streams through pvas. I am hoping these new files make an svcd that the Daewoo plays well.

I will report on my progress... has anyone else made any nice svcds lately?
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post #182 of 344 Old 02-28-2002, 01:41 AM
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Odd... these new files, taken with replayer.jar, edited with womble, then processed with pvas, play fine in XP, but are out of audio/video sync on the Daewoo 5700 player. Audio and video remain in-sync with the non-pvas files on the 5700, but they are both totally messed up when played back on it; the video has lots of artifacts, and the audio sometimes goes away entirely. Next I will get the file from the replay with SwapDV using PC file tweaking, edit it in Womble, and then burn it.

It looks like this PVAS makes files that actually are out of synch on my 5700 player, but good on the pc. More experimentation. That's what I always tell the ladies.
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post #183 of 344 Old 02-28-2002, 02:18 AM
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Ut oh... the 5700 didn't like that CDR either. So I didn't waste any time on the bitrate issue, I checked a disk I made a week or so ago. I had captured Enterprise "Shadows of P'Jem" in High Quality, edited it with Womble 3/01, and burnt it in Nero. It plays fine in the 5700... the first segments peak bitrate is 8125kbps, 3317adv, and 6000nominal (of course, being a hi qlty replay file). The new file peaks at 5808, with a 2421adv and 4000nominal. It's not the bitrate or bitrate swings.

So, perhaps the new Womble 3/12 is the cause? More likely it's that one of the recent reply software updates deserve the blame. Ut oh, that would be bad.
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post #184 of 344 Old 02-28-2002, 04:21 AM
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My PC's configuration must have gotten screwed up. I havn't explored it much, but after removing the new version of Womble and reinstalling the old 3/01 flavor, I was able to edit the file I had xfred with SwapDV and make a nice little XSVCD in Nero that played just fine on my Daewoo 5700. Strange, the last two CDR's I was forced to overburn, this one I wasn't. I checked the file sizes and I shouldn't have had to overburn the others, they were all 635Meg or there abouts. I must be stoned, or something.
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post #185 of 344 Old 02-28-2002, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Synapse
Rich, I did some teting myself, after you clued me in about codecs and Womble. However, what codec I have installed on my machine does affect TMPGEnc. It refuses to work with any files for me unless I first install the ATI codec, and then the Ligos one. Only after that will it work on the few non-problematic files. Strange.
TMPGEnc does not have it's own playback engine, so it needs additional codecs to work. So in this case yes the codecs can effect things. You can use many different codecs through TMPGEnc.

Whereas Womble uses it's own independent playback engine, so whatever codecs are on your system have no effect to Womble.
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post #186 of 344 Old 02-28-2002, 07:55 AM - Thread Starter
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In reference to TMPGenc and needing codecs, yes that is true. My example was specifically calling for Womble and SpruceUp and nothing else. Just to show how in one instance any Mpeg-2 codec is not needed.

Along those lines I *did* say something about some editors requiring a codec.

A fact of digital life. (for the most part) "True" NLE mpeg editors or authoring software that have their own "encoding" capabilities are strong on the editing and weak on encoding.

"True" encoders that have some editing capabilities are strong on encoding and weak on editing.

Womble is primarily an "editor" with a so-so encoder.
TMPGenc is primarily an encoder, with a so-so editor.

Each has their own primary function and works best in that primary function.

Also for Synapse. A bit of information I hope will be useful.

I only use the "raw" unmodified Mpegs from the ReplayTV. I use ReplayPC or SwapDV for the extraction. Either works fine.

I'm using the latest (12/01) Womble. In another digital video forum I hang around, we discuss Womble quite a bit. Many guys have reported they were using the 03/01 version without trouble and when they switched to 11/01 they had problems. Then when they switched to 12/01 those problems went away again.

From all that ... one "might" conclude that 3/01 was okay. Then with the 11/01 update they introduced some new problems which were fixed with the 12/01 update.

Also .. that utility (with the funny name mentioned earlier) is buggy. When I downloaded it and looked at the "features" I was all excited. However, as some others have reported, many of those features don't work correctly and it "can" introduce more errors in the finished mpeg. Most agree that it has huge potential but after giving it a very thorough trial, I'd have to agree that it's creating problems (maybe more than it's fixing).

Lastly .. I am just totally confused about the problem of glitched Mpegs from the Replay. I "have" been having a lot of trouble with this up until a couple days ago. Now, it's working perfectly again. No more blocks in the video. In fact, I've been just editing out the commercials and burning them directly as a Mini-dvd. I've tried everything to make it screw up as it was for the past several weeks. But every test is fine. (I burned 3 low quality and 2 medium quality mini-D's last night) There is NO problem with either the ReplayPC or the SwapDV as far as I can tell.

I even tried waiting until the ReplayTV was in the midst of capturing a medium quality show, and off-loaded some existing one hour medium shows at the same time. No problem.

At THIS point in time I'd have to honestly say I'm having NO problems with ReplayTV mpegs. However I fear that may change down the road.

What I've found to date:

The ReplayTV mpegs as they exist on the ReplayTV are perfect.

The problem with glitched video (when it happens) happens no matter which "extracting" program I use and is not being caused BY either program.

The problem with glitched video (when it happens) seems to be random and then when it is happening, happens for any video being off-loaded. This goes on for an unkown period of time and then mysteriously "fixes itself" at a later date.

Rich
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post #187 of 344 Old 02-28-2002, 09:45 AM
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I have not seen anything said about just capturing to a pc through any video capture card or device. Although it is in realtime, it is much easier to capture and edit programs.

I use my dazzle and capture lots of music in shows (such as Boston Public and Ally McBeal) as well as favorite scenes. I can easily edit the files and store them on a large drive. I only use MPEG1 at 300,000 bitrate. Of course, MPEG2 will give you a bigger image on the computer with the same quality, but the file is much larger.

I like to play them back on my TV with my laptop video out with the media player in full screen mode (I also have a matrox dual head g400 card that can play media files in full screen automatically).

The MPEG1 picture is pretty good on the TV (far better than full screen on the computer) and most tv-out cards or devices allow you to adjust the picture to some extent.

I go into my RTV line1 (SAT is in line2) and can then record or just watch the video I am playing using my RTV remote.

You can string groups of shows together and put them back onto your replay for viewing anytime you want. When I switch to line1 on the RTV, whatever I am playing on the computer will go right into the buffer.
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post #188 of 344 Old 02-28-2002, 01:21 PM
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I just grabbed a Voyager episode recorded in high quality off of KJZZ that was only 802meg after editing out the commercials with Womble 3/01. Strange, because I have another Voyager episode recorded in high qulaity from WPWR that is 2gigs before I edit it up! There is no way it's going to get down to a resonable size. I just made an XSVCD out of that first episode. It's plays well in the Daewoo 5700. So, no transcoding required yet again from the Replay to CDR, and in high quality mode at that. I did have to use one of my 99min CDRs, and overburn in Nero on my Plextor 2410a... but it worked! I may hold a bit on the DVD-R, till I earn some more $!
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post #189 of 344 Old 03-01-2002, 01:10 AM
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I've tried this several times tonight. I took a downloaded 137min movie and trimmed the ends in womble. The resultant file plays fine on the PC. I tried PVAS with several gyrations on the repair settings. All results failed to work on the file when pulling it into Ulead Movie Factory. On the PC the "fixed files" also seemed to have a constant "Surge" or "Dip" in the playback speed at about 1 sec intervals, just looks kinda funky.

I have never gotten any show over 1 hour to work within UMF. When large files are pulled into Movie Factory, it reports the file as something like 9-17 minutes long. So I then used womble to break the file up into five 20 minute segments. I then added them all into Movie Factory as seperate chapters. This results in a working DVD. The burn took about an hour for some reason (DVD-RW on Pioneer A03). At this point I think I'll check in with Ulead Tech to see if there are size limits for contiguous files.

If it takes more time to download and download, edit, and burn to DVD than it does to just record in real time onto a stand-alone DVD+RW recorder (just dump to DVD like we did with VCRs), I may just go that route for a while...

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post #190 of 344 Old 03-01-2002, 03:54 AM
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Tonight I grabbed a 1hr Voyager episode recorded in High Quality which was 1.4gig. I used Womble v3.11 (3/01) to make six mpegs totalling 813meg. Can you believe that? 1.4g down to 8m? Anyway, these files made a high quality XSVCD on 99min CDR media. I figured the peaks and swings in the datastream would render it unplayable in the Daewoo 5700, but it played just fine, and looked great! There were a few times it hiccuped, but when it did it was corrected immediately and didn't really distract from the show. I bet that would be eliminated entirely if I recorded in medium quality.

What I have learned is that the exact same show from two different feeds can have up to a 30% differential in size! The smaller files actually look at bit more "lossy", but they still look good and burn well on oversized CDR media. That is kinda nice. I still need that DVD-R so I can get some of the movies off of that box. I need the space!
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post #191 of 344 Old 03-01-2002, 05:56 AM
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Synapse, a noisy picture will compress less and have more artifacts.
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post #192 of 344 Old 03-01-2002, 07:55 AM
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Not to overstate the obvious, but for proper playback on a PC you need a fast drive, 7200RPM or better, and make sure that the movie isn't fragmented. I had movies that would just not play in Movie Factory which, when I copied the file to a pristine 7200RPM drive zipped right along.

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post #193 of 344 Old 03-01-2002, 11:39 AM
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I took a 30 min episode of The Simpsons at Medium quality and edited out the commercials using Womble (12/01). This brought it down to 20 minutes. I then used TMPGEnc to get it to SVCD format. I burned it using Nero's Super Video CD template.

I put it in my DVD and it was very choppy.

Then I pressed the >> button on my DVD remote and it was PERFECT. The picture and sound were perfect while in >> mode.

Can anyone tell my why? and how can I fix this prior to burning? I'm new at the multimedia stuff, but I'm assuming it has something to do with the bitrate or the fps?

Can someone shed some light?

What are we going to do tonight Brain?
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post #194 of 344 Old 03-01-2002, 09:05 PM
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mrwilson: first, you were great in "Cast Away". So, even though both feeds were from Dishnet, I guess the first one (that was over 2gig) was a bit noisy. The picture looked dark and had some wavyness going on... the second one looks much better, and like I said was only 1.4gig or so. I guess Dishnet just picked up a noisy feed for that other channel.
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post #195 of 344 Old 03-01-2002, 10:47 PM
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For the Record. Ulead Movie Factory can NOT handle files over 4gig. I confirmed with Tech Support. I'm running XPpro NTFS with Womble and have no problem creating 4+ gig Mpegs. Movie Factory is a rev behind the times.

If you import any file over 4gig (1 hour+ in length) it will display a run length of 5-15 minutes. If you break the show into smaller files you can import them all into Movie Factory and life is good.

The only hitch is that the multiple pieces then have to be re-rendered by movie factory. A 1:20 show took about 1 1/2 hours to render and burn to DVD-RW.

Anyone know of another simple authoring prog that can handle one big file?

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post #196 of 344 Old 03-02-2002, 03:09 AM
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Is there a way to prevent the new 12/01 version of Womble from opening each new clip after creation? I had been using the 3/01 version, and just went back to it partly because of this behavior. I thought I might try the newer version again.

Tonight I made another XSVCD from the Replay. I used SwapDV to extract the file, with PC Mpeg Tweaking enabled. Then created six chapters from it with Womble 3/01. Burnt it onto a 99min CDR via Nero... it plays wonderfully in the Daewoo 5700. I don't really intend to keep anything but new Enterprise episodes at this point, but I enjoy perfecting the process.
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post #197 of 344 Old 03-07-2002, 08:55 PM
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I've got a showstopper, and I've been trying out Womble for the last few days. I came across a problem with the standard quality (352x480) recordings when trying to burn XSVCDS

Basically, I used womble to edit out the commercials, then to I cut segments out and saved them to reasonable chunks (< 800 MB), and saved them. When I try burning them using Nero, nero seems to have a problem reading the format and says that it is too big.

I think I'm doing things correctly. I've tried saving it using Womble in both "program stream" and "program stream SVCD mode". I've tried burning it with Nero, SVCD mode, "non-compliant" mode.

If I re-encode the file using tmpgenc, then it works fine; I just don't want to spend all that processing time to re-encode. Ideas?
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post #198 of 344 Old 03-08-2002, 02:47 AM
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bobw: I have noticed this myself... sometimes when Nero imports a file it thinks it is anywhere from 5% to 100% larger then it really is. Strange, I am not sure what causes it, or how to fix it.
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post #199 of 344 Old 03-08-2002, 04:59 PM
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I'm using (attempting to use!) this package for building DVDs that I'm getting from my ReplayTV 4080 using ReplayPC.

I go to put a 4.1GB mpeg2 file on a 4.7GB DVD. It says not enough room. I downsample it to a 3.7GB mpeg2 file, then DVDIt! says it will fit, but when I go to do a burn, it still won't! It looks like (from checking the temp files) that it's turning my 3.7GB file into a 4.65GB file before it burns it......

Anybody know much about this program? Support seems pretty dismal. How can I tell, in advance, what I can fit on a disc? This "process for three hours and then say nope" method is for the birds!

Thanks!

-- Marc
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post #200 of 344 Old 03-08-2002, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by MANowell
I'm using (attempting to use!) this package for building DVDs that I'm getting from my ReplayTV 4080 using ReplayPC.

I go to put a 4.1GB mpeg2 file on a 4.7GB DVD. It says not enough room. I downsample it to a 3.7GB mpeg2 file, then DVDIt! says it will fit, but when I go to do a burn, it still won't! It looks like (from checking the temp files) that it's turning my 3.7GB file into a 4.65GB file before it burns it......

Thanks!
One reason is that the default for DVDIt! is to reencode the audio from the 224kb/s MPEG layer II audio to linear PCM, which increases the space for audio beyond that in the original file (by a factor of around 6x!) If you have DVDIt! PE, you can have it encode to Dolby Digital instead.
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post #201 of 344 Old 03-09-2002, 06:37 AM
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Well, this may account for the size problems...

I think the Replay mpegs use a packet size of 2048, but SVCDs are Mode2 and expect a packet size of 2324. So, they dont fit... if you burn that image, usually you get all sorts of image problems and popping in the audio. Not good.

To get around this, I used VCDEasy to "image" the svcd first, and then burnt it in CDRWIN. Worked like a charm. However, VCDEasy seems to be a front end for VCDImager which is actually doing this work.

Another way to do this is to use a DVD Authoring package, like ULead DVD Factory. However, if your burning onto CDR, your player most likely doesn't play CDRs with a DVD format. I made one, it plays great on the PC, but my Daewoo 5700 player rejected it.

All we really need to do is get Nero to allow us to burn in Mode1 instead of Mode2, but from within it's SVCD Template... any ideas? Or perhaps there is a better solution?
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post #202 of 344 Old 03-13-2002, 09:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Yup, Synapse is right on. The "packet" size for VCD and SVCD is different from that of DVD. I don't remember, but am pretty sure his packet size figures are correct. This should be taken into consideration when doing out of spec. stuff like XSVCD. Although the ReplayTV MPEG is proper for DVD directly, I don't know what Nero would do (even with compliancy turned off) and would guess all kinds of "playback" problems could happen when using DVD packet size source on a disc that had SVCD layout.

I'm thinking that if this is what some are doing, perhaps doing a demultiplex and then multiplexing with some multiplex software that has an SVCD profile and can just change the pack size etc. without re-encoding the video/audio would be the best bet for a proper playing XSVCD.

All I've had experience with is using dvd authoring to make actual compliant DVD title sets and then burn those to CDRs. Works great with the low quality RPTV mpegs.

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post #203 of 344 Old 03-13-2002, 09:16 AM
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Sorry it took me so long to get back with this, but: Thanks! That made a huge difference in file size. What are the downsides, if any, of doing two-channel Dolby Digital (which seems odd) rather than PCM?

Quote:
Originally posted by Ponziani


One reason is that the default for DVDIt! is to reencode the audio from the 224kb/s MPEG layer II audio to linear PCM, which increases the space for audio beyond that in the original file (by a factor of around 6x!) If you have DVDIt! PE, you can have it encode to Dolby Digital instead.

-- Marc
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post #204 of 344 Old 03-23-2002, 02:43 PM
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I would like to try out the WOmble MPEG-2 s/w before I plunk down $300, but I can't find the MEPG-2 version of their demo that was discussed earlier. Where can that be found?
Thanks.
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post #205 of 344 Old 03-23-2002, 08:56 PM
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I had contacted the Womble folks directly and they emailed me a key, good for 15 days. I then downloaded the full mpeg2 version. Tried it, liked it and then bought it (I think it's around $250.00 now). It's very fast and easy to use.

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post #206 of 344 Old 04-09-2002, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rich A
Yup, Synapse is right on. The "packet" size for VCD and SVCD is different from that of DVD. [i]snip]/i]

Although the ReplayTV MPEG is proper for DVD directly, I don't know what Nero would do (even with compliancy turned off) and would guess all kinds of "playback" problems could happen when using DVD packet size source on a disc that had SVCD layout.

I'm thinking that if this is what some are doing, perhaps doing a demultiplex and then multiplexing with some multiplex software that has an SVCD profile and can just change the pack size etc. without re-encoding the video/audio would be the best bet for a proper playing XSVCD.
Thanks for your postings, Rich and Synapse. After playing with it awhile, I found out that you were right. I used Tmpgenc's MPEG Tools to do a simple Multiplex, which seems to repack things to the correct size.

On a down note, I downloaded the latest Nero (5.5.8) and it doesn't provide me with a DVD template to burn things with. I guess since it didn't detect a DVD burner, it didn't provide me with that template, so I guess I will continue to burn XSVCDs.

A question to RichA. I've been trying out Womble, and on the files that work, its great. But it seems like a lot of the extracted files (I have a showstopper) I get a lot of messed up mpegs. Womble shows only a limited size. When I pass it through PVAStrumento, it shows a lot of messed up GOPS, the time code resetting, etc. What method were you using to handle these messed up files? Is there a trick in Womble to grab each little clip, or some tool that really works to massage the mpeg?

Thanks,

/Bob
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post #207 of 344 Old 04-09-2002, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bobw



On a down note, I downloaded the latest Nero (5.5.8) and it doesn't provide me with a DVD template to burn things with. I guess since it didn't detect a DVD burner, it didn't provide me with that template, so I guess I will continue to burn XSVCDs.

I have Nero 5.5.7.2 and you can get the DVD template.

Goto File-> Preferences -> Expert Features
Check the last box (show all compilation types)

Then you should be able to select DVD from the drop down menu
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post #208 of 344 Old 04-09-2002, 03:10 PM
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Can anyone recommend an encoder card that will reduce my re-encoding time when working with MPEGs? I find my machine takes a long time to re-encode them when the bitrates of the extracted mpegs are too high for DVD. I burn my shows onto DVDRs but some of my high quality MPEGs for some shows have peak bitrates which exceed the DVD spec and hence programs refuse to use them and I need to re-encode them.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Calvin
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post #209 of 344 Old 04-11-2002, 07:53 AM
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I don't suppose I could get someone to post a raw Replay video clip, about a minute, long in both standard and medium quality, so that I can download it. I'm having trouble finding a free bit of software that will trim commercials or just saw of pieces of my files.
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post #210 of 344 Old 04-12-2002, 07:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by bobw

A question to RichA. I've been trying out Womble, and on the files that work, its great. But it seems like a lot of the extracted files (I have a showstopper) I get a lot of messed up mpegs. Womble shows only a limited size. When I pass it through PVAStrumento, it shows a lot of messed up GOPS, the time code resetting, etc. What method were you using to handle these messed up files? Is there a trick in Womble to grab each little clip, or some tool that really works to massage the mpeg?

Thanks,

/Bob
Ah there's a neat little utility someone made that may solve your problem. It's called "Timefix". You can search the threads there to find info or you can download a copy off my web site. Go to the downloads page. After unzip the file you'll see the EXE and also the source code. Open the source code in notepad or some other ASCII reader and you'll find a few paragraphs there about how to use it. www.pcphotovideo.com

Let us know if it helps. It won't fix broken GOPs etc. but it will fix a pesky problem with the time flags in the mpegs that cause some editors to go bonkers.

Rich
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