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post #31 of 53 Old 04-13-2011, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by hdonzis View Post

Yeah, I read those a bunch of times last night and couldn't come to a clear conclusion. It also says "Cable" channels x - y. In my own thinking, it certainly would be strange if you had a mixed cable system and you couldn't use the 7001 to tune all the stations. But, I can certainly see there being no point in using a converter box for stations that you can tune directly. Just seems like it would make it more easy to use, but they may figure that there won't be any analog broadcasts soon enough...

Henry

Well, consider this...

1. Even though the spec sheet reads Cable Channels 2-125 (or whatever), that really only defines what frequencies the tuner can tune. Same goes for VHF and UHF. These terms define frequencies, not protocols.

2. Why would CM spend good money on developing and manufacturing something (an analog tuner) that is probably already on the street? There really is no reason to re-invent the wheel. Why increase your cost?

3. The CM-7000 does not tune NTSC, so I see no reason that a follow-on box would, either.

4. Looking at the manual again, and in particular the "Scan" screenshots, the last pic shows only digital channels found.. not even an entry / line item for analog channels.


Granted, once I get this box, I will have to take it to a home where analog cable still exists, to see if it can tune NTSC. I cannot test this feature in my current location.

Cheers!
-Doug
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post #32 of 53 Old 04-13-2011, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh you haven't got it yet and here I thought you were very patient man waiting for rainy day to play with it. It does have analog cable 2 - 135 itself odd usually to 125.
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post #33 of 53 Old 04-13-2011, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dstoffa View Post

Well, consider this...

1. Even though the spec sheet reads Cable Channels 2-125 (or whatever), that really only defines what frequencies the tuner can tune. Same goes for VHF and UHF. These terms define frequencies, not protocols.

2. Why would CM spend good money on developing and manufacturing something (an analog tuner) that is probably already on the street? There really is no reason to re-invent the wheel.

Cheers!
-Doug

Keep in mind many that buy this will use with HD TV they bought with no tuner what so ever in it. And most of the others without such TV would want the analog cable as well and would return it if not there.
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post #34 of 53 Old 04-13-2011, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dstoffa View Post

Well, consider this...

1. Even though the spec sheet reads Cable Channels 2-125 (or whatever), that really only defines what frequencies the tuner can tune. Same goes for VHF and UHF. These terms define frequencies, not protocols.

2. Why would CM spend good money on developing and manufacturing something (an analog tuner) that is probably already on the street? There really is no reason to re-invent the wheel. Why increase your cost?

3. The CM-7000 does not tune NTSC, so I see no reason that a follow-on box would, either.

4. Looking at the manual again, and in particular the "Scan" screenshots, the last pic shows only digital channels found.. not even an entry / line item for analog channels.


Granted, once I get this box, I will have to take it to a home where analog cable still exists, to see if it can tune NTSC. I cannot test this feature in my current location.

Yep, I DID consider all that. Which is why I tend to agree with your conclusion. I just was pointing out the possibility of it also supporting analog cable channels. Obviously, in configuring the 7001 for cable, it uses the cable channel alignments instead of the VHF/UHF channel alignments, so it already is "cable ready"...

I didn't know that the 7000 didn't support analog OTA, but I suppose that certainly not strange under the coupon eligible requirements. My OTA box also doesn't support analog OTA, but since in my area all the analog broadcasts are UHF, it was easy to still feed UHF into the TV to pick up the analog OTA while using the digital OTA box to feed channel 3. I have this setup just to play with, for WiRNS and RTV support and such, not for any "real" use...

So, why would they spend extra money on this? Well, it certainly is a totally different market than the 7000, wanting to replace rental cable boxes. Since the 7000 was coupon eligible, that would probably restrict them from supporting analog tuning, especially given the price range of those boxes. But, since this is a whole new market, and given the price of the box, it could make sense to make it work with mixed analog/digital cable. However, as I said, since analog cable will be gone soon enough, it certainly makes sense that they wouldn't bother to waste money on unnecessary costs...

Henry
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post #35 of 53 Old 04-13-2011, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by cwpl View Post

Oh you haven't got it yet and here I thought you were very patient man waiting for rainy day to play with it. It does have analog cable 2 - 135 itself odd usually to 125.

The box was supposed to ship in March. The ship date was revised to April 15.

With regards to Cable 2-135, the channel numbers define frequencies, not protocols. For example, the center frequency corresponding to Cable Channel 14 is 123.5 MHz. A cable company can transmit NTSC (analog) on this channel, and your old school TV could tune it AND understand it, or the cable-co can send QAM (digital) on this channel, and your old school TV could tune it, but not understand it. It would be similar to playing a video tape from Europe on a VCR made for use here in the States.

Cheers!
-Doug
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post #36 of 53 Old 04-13-2011, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, but for how many decades has cable x thru y mean what it means, they would make it very clear. Because you would be in very small minority wanting it any other way. Someone can ask them I remember asking about the 7000 years ago they answered.
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post #37 of 53 Old 04-13-2011, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by cwpl View Post

Yeah, but for how many decades has cable x thru y mean what it means, they would make it very clear. Because you would be in very small minority wanting it any other way. Someone can ask them I remember asking about the 7000 years ago they answered.

It seems very clear to me. This tuner can tune those frequencies. Doesn't mean it will understand all information broadcast on those frequencies.

When ATSC became the standard in the States in 2009, it was the first time since the dawn of television that protocols changed. When both protocols (ATSC and NTSC) were being used, literature made it clear that even though the same channels were used, one couldn't be understood by the other.

All the literature for the CM-7000 reads that it tunes and understands ATSC and QAM. No mention of NTSC at all. I understand that as no analog tuning. It's sold as a ATSC / QAM tuner. The preface of the user's manual reads:

"A Digital ATSC HD/SD TV Tuner is a product that enables you to see a large variety of channels that are supplied by ATSC broadcast stations and Clear QAM Cable signals. This User manual explains everything from how to install the Receiver to the steps that need to be taken to operate various different functions."

The headers of the manual also read, "DIGITAL ATSC HDTV TV TUNER". If this box supports analog tuning, it must be an undocumented feature.

Besides, I can't think of any TV sold in the past 15 years, HD or not, or HD ready, that did not come with a built-in analog NTSC cable-ready tuner. And if someone were holding on to an old set, they sure could buy a new one of better quality with much more features.

This box is a niche product. You won't see it on the shelves at your wal-mart or best buy....

Cheers!
-Doug
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post #38 of 53 Old 04-13-2011, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I wish you luck but replaytv owners are not the niche it was designed for, or it would be set up for them and proudly state so. Like I said I hope it's the way you want but would not count on it if I were you.
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post #39 of 53 Old 04-13-2011, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by cwpl View Post

I wish you luck but replaytv owners are not the niche it was designed for, or it would be set up for them and proudly state so. Like I said I hope it's the way you want but would not count on it if I were you.

I never implied this box was designed to work with Replays. And I don't think the burden is on any stb manufacturer to make a box to work with any DVR. That burden should be on the DVR manufacturer. I am hoping I can create a workaround for myself, like I've done with OTA and the CM-7000.

Any burden would be on DNNA to send a software / guide update to the RTV so that the RTV could support this box. And with clear QAM, even the new Tivos will not support it. (Actually, they can tune clear QAM, but there will be no guide data for those clear QAM channels -- the cable card serves as the Rosetta Stone that does the mapping from QAM to 'cable channel number'.)

I have a spare RTV that I used to leave in a closet as a headless unit for conflict resolution. Since my cable company pulled the plug on analog, I am hoping that this tuner will allow me to put that RTV back to work. If it doesn't work, I won't lose sleep, as I have other possible uses for this tuner.

Cheers!
-Doug
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post #40 of 53 Old 04-13-2011, 06:47 PM - Thread Starter
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I didn't mean to imply you said it was designed for replay was just stating it would be of use to a lot more people with analog cable support than to not have it. As for the older tube HD's I moved one for a guy few months ago he paid $40 for it more $200 to me to pick it up and deliver. He hooked to his cable DVR beautiful picture great sound, don't think you could ask for more from a TV (monitor) than that and is plug and play.
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post #41 of 53 Old 04-13-2011, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
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That's what would make it great for me would be if it could be controlled by replay and did have cable card slot. With the inputs it has appears it can be updated so maybe if it can't control replay and what have you maybe they will get feedback and do some manual channel mapping or something.
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post #42 of 53 Old 04-14-2011, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by cwpl View Post

That's what would make it great for me would be if it could be controlled by replay and did have cable card slot. With the inputs it has appears it can be updated so maybe if it can't control replay and what have you maybe they will get feedback and do some manual channel mapping or something.

I would assume that a whole round of licensing fees (not the mention the additional hardware required) to mod this tuner to accept cable-card would make this box too expensive for consumers. It would be dead in the water. You might as well just buy a cable box from Scientific Atlanta... Adding cable-card support would make this a cable box that can also tune OTA..


Cheers!
-Doug
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post #43 of 53 Old 04-14-2011, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Channel master answered my email----Yes the CM 7001 can receive analog cable and QAM



Edwin Pineda

(480)503-2327--------- If I remember correctly in the 7000 instructions has choose CABLE or OTA for channel set up if they could add spec it did not have they could and obviously did have omission in 7001 (although they really didn't said cable 2-135)
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post #44 of 53 Old 04-14-2011, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
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[quote=dstoffa;20304068 Adding cable-card support would make this a cable box that can also tune OTA..


Cheers!
-Doug[/QUOTE]

Someone will make one one day, I assume Channel Master wanted to with this. Probably didn't because like you said who ever has patent on card wanted too much money. Time will take care of that.
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post #45 of 53 Old 04-14-2011, 11:35 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't see why because it has analog cable that would stop the replay from being able to control it and switch to QAM channels? Depending on what channel cable company puts them on of course, don't see problem if say channel 18 was made 18.1.
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post #46 of 53 Old 04-15-2011, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
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That 135 must have something to do with QAM, specs from Panasonic recorder. CATV Channel Analog/Digital Analog/Digital 1-135ch TV Channel Analog/Digital Analog/Digital 2-69ch
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post #47 of 53 Old 04-16-2011, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
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post #48 of 53 Old 04-17-2011, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwpl View Post

Not much more you can get this. http://www.walmart.com/ip/Magnavox-M...order/14291489

Or, for not much difference in price, this:
www.jr.com/magnavox/pe/MAG_MDR515H_hy_RB/

Or, what you suggested, but cheaper:
www.jr.com/magnavox/pe/MAG_MDR513H_hy_RB/
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post #49 of 53 Old 04-20-2011, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
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If I didn't have so many DVR's now would get one of those Magnavox's, certainty would if was only OTA. On related note Panasonic still makes these doesn't sell here. http://cgi.ebay.com/320GB-Panasonic-...item35b0ef2f68
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post #50 of 53 Old 04-21-2011, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by cwpl View Post

On related note Panasonic still makes these doesn't sell here. http://cgi.ebay.com/320GB-Panasonic-...item35b0ef2f68

Holy moly - the price!!!

You can get those a lot cheaper from places like World-Import, J&R Photo and B&H World online (J&R occasionally has them "open box" for even cheaper).

No North-American NTSC/ATSC/QAM tuner or IR blaster, though. But you can record into them just fine through a line input, and can set manual timers.
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post #51 of 53 Old 04-21-2011, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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I guess he has it so high because of what used ones go for. I assume Panasonic thinks between cable, satellite DVR's and Tivo not worth selling here anymore.
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post #52 of 53 Old 04-30-2011, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Dstoffa don't tell me they haven't shipped yet, I wonder why companies put dates out when they know damn well their not going to meet it.
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post #53 of 53 Old 04-30-2011, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by cwpl View Post
Dstoffa don't tell me they haven't shipped yet...
www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1324254
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