Encryption and El Gamal Signature - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 315 Old 06-23-2011, 06:56 AM
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Congratulations, impressive work!

Thank you!
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post #92 of 315 Old 06-23-2011, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t.d. View Post

As far as I know, most folks read Todd Larson's wiki about File Verification.
TD

Got it, after some googling ("Larason", not "Larson"). Not clear how he figured it out. Oh well, no matter.

(Coincidentally, I'm also in Waltham. Riverview Ave.)

-jim

Jim
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post #93 of 315 Old 06-23-2011, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by erickotz View Post

Now to find find a really big calculator...

hee hee.

Isn't the WWW great?.

Big Number Java Applet

...and another
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post #94 of 315 Old 06-23-2011, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvandonsel View Post

Got it, after some googling ("Larason", not "Larson"). Not clear how he figured it out. Oh well, no matter.

(Coincidentally, I'm also in Waltham. Riverview Ave.)

-jim

My bad, but the link on the wirns.com links page also misspells his name as "Larson" instead of "Larason", so I have company. But for future Googlers out there, I/we should be more careful in the future

TD
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post #95 of 315 Old 06-23-2011, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t.d. View Post

but the link on the wirns.com links page also misspells his name as "Larson" instead of "Larason"

Not any more!

Henry
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post #96 of 315 Old 06-23-2011, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t.d. View Post
I sent the signing key I recovered to Henry, and he has confirmed in PM that it seems to work (at least once). So remember, deep breaths
awesome. At least there's some hope of options in case Replay doesn't do the right thing.
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post #97 of 315 Old 06-23-2011, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvandonsel View Post
Out of curiosity, how was it determined that they used El Gamal for signing, rather than one of the other digital signature schemes?
There are lots of hints if you look at ptv.bin, the ELF MIPS executable that is the the main application...

A few C++ mangled symbols:
Code:
EG_Verify__FPC12EG_PublicKeyPCvUiT1Ui
EG_SignatureSize__FPC13EG_PrivateKeyUiPUi
EG_Sign__FPC13EG_PrivateKeyPCvUiPvUiPUiPFPv_UiT3
And a short list of source files:
Code:
R:/Source/System/Crypt/elgamal/mp32.c
R:/Source/System/Crypt/elgamal/mp32number.c
R:/Source/System/Crypt/elgamal/mp32barrett.c
R:/Source/System/Crypt/elgamal/elgamal.c
R:/Source/System/Crypt/elgamal/api.c
R:/Source/System/Crypt/eg.cpp
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post #98 of 315 Old 06-23-2011, 05:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lclarkrtv View Post
This is a stab in the dark. I noticed earlier today that on each ReplayTV unit, on the Setup->System Information->Unit Info screen there is an item labeled "Key" that is the ReplayTV serial number plus a few random characters. Would each unit have a different public key?

-- Lynn
That key is not required or useful, except when talking to people at ReplayTV central. I am pretty sure it plays little or no role in the signature computation.
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post #99 of 315 Old 06-23-2011, 08:30 PM
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The FileVerification page mentions that ReplayTV used the "'version 3' implementation from the beecrypt library"... however, that really refers to ElGamal variant 3, in the form of the elgv3vrfy() function from the Beecrypt library. If you want to compile eg-verify.cpp, you need to get version 2.1.0 of Beecrypt (not the newer v3 or v4). It also needs the rtv.c and rtv.h files from ReplayPC-0.40 (or just the files from here).
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post #100 of 315 Old 06-23-2011, 10:02 PM
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*this is not the key, just the next step*
k = 270066586988857926815918958846937401235063069407572288593388 280367472956449164505775010196680865118574256090881707085850 9143294215538437132132512986244213

Quality Assurance Manager, Ceton Corporation
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post #101 of 315 Old 06-24-2011, 02:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatomon View Post

I don't see much difference between a wirns server distributing EPG to RTV's over a local network (which btw could service several RTV's with a single SD account) and a server on the internet that distributes EPG to a single RTV. In fact, I would not be surprised if some people service RTV using wirns over the internet...

Of course, it would require some sort of auditing on the RTV-EPG server to show SD that it had an account for each machine. No one is trying to rip-off SD (in fact, i maintain my SD account at $20/yr and i haven't even used it in a couple of years; I think it is a valuable service).

The problem with the wirns solution is that it will miss many (most?) people. I myself am a mac/linux fan, but I do run wirns on a windows machine because it such a great program. But I'm not the usual RTV user.

-Chris

PS: I love perl...

I have never used Wirns so I don't know what all it is capable of, but as far as using a centralized server to get the SchedulesDirect guide data, there shouldn't be any need for using anything other than the current individual accounts. Rather than aggregating and serving the data, it just needs to translate the data from the format SD uses to the format that Wirns uses. ReplayTV users could have a connector application on their local network -- a "Wirns Lite" if you will -- which would be a simple software appliance that anyone with a networked computer with Internet access could install and use -- they would configure it with the IP of the centralized server, their SD login, SD password, and an ID for the SD channel lineup to use. When their ReplayTV goes to retrieve guide data, this local program would act as a connector to the centralized server and would pass it the SD info over a secure connection. The server would then act as a proxy to login into SD, access the info, and translate it as it is passed back to the Replay unit. Nothing is stored on the Centralized server -- it is merely a proxy which acts as an adapter between the two systems and each SD account access is through a subscriber's account solely for that subscriber's benefit.

The tricky part is making the "appliance" simple enough that nontechnical ReplayTV users wouldn't feel intimidated trying to set it up. Since it has to somehow insert itself between the ReplayTV unit and the server some kind of routing is necessary but we wouldn't want something as complicated as for it to be its own web server, the way Wirns is -- the fewer complications in setting it up, the more viable it is for "the masses". Too bad we can't just attach the ReplayTVs to some specialized hardware router -- that would be nice and easy but besides the extra expense, someone then has to program the router. Any minor entrepreneurs out there want to try selling customized routers to disenfranchised ReplayTV owners?

-- Les
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post #102 of 315 Old 06-24-2011, 07:39 AM
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If there were an appliance, somewhere in the cloud, for the non-technical users that don't want to have WiRNS running locally, the simplest thing for them to have to do is on their RTVs just set their DNS servers on each Replay to that appliance's IP address.

The appliance could handle the DNS lookup and tell the RTV that the IP of the original servers are now it's IP and not the ones used by DNNA.

Rob

Thanks: ijprest, waynethedvrguy, Remmer99, hdonzis, gduprey, LeeThompson, j.m., archdog99, FlipFlop, The Dreamer, chriv and all the other Replay Hackers out there.
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post #103 of 315 Old 06-24-2011, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlichtefeld View Post

If there were an appliance, somewhere in the cloud, for the non-technical users that don't want to have WiRNS running locally, the simplest thing for them to have to do is on their RTVs just set their DNS servers on each Replay to that appliance's IP address.

The appliance could handle the DNS lookup and tell the RTV that the IP of the original servers are now it's IP and not the ones used by DNNA.

Rob

Yes, I agree. Having an appliance in the home AND a separate server on the Internet doesn't make sense to me.

If this is to be done, I think it should either be an appliance for the home that does everything, or it should be a server on the Internet that does everything.

With an Internet server, I don't know if it is necessary to store any guide data there. When the RTV attaches to the server, can it not log in to SD on the fly and translate the data in to Replay-usable format? It might take a little longer, but it would alleviate the need for the server to store guide data for every Replay that connects to it.

One concern I have is that if a server is created (or an appliance for that matter), it won't be ready on 7/31. I think if it is not ready to go at that time that most people will not have the patience to wait for it and will move on to other solutions.

This discussion should probably be moved to another thread...

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post #104 of 315 Old 06-24-2011, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t.d. View Post
So we solve for k (the xr term having fallen out):

(s - s')(h - h')^-1 = k(mod p-1)

We need the multiplicative inverse of (h - h'), such that

(h - h')(h - h')^-1 = 1 (mod p-1)

I started writing this in perl, but even Math::BigInt::Pari was too slow. So, I just used Beecrypt 2.1.0 and extended eg-verify.c. I think I might have it correctly computing (h-h')^-1 (mod p-1) ... but I could be wrong. I'm leaving town for a week, so I'll post what I have so far in case it helps someone.
Code:
$ gcc -g eg-compute.c rtv.c -Lbeecrypt/.libs -lbeecrypt
some warnings...

$ ./a.out
key 0 check 0 (rom.bin.g2): 1
key 0 check 1 (ptv.bin.g2): 1
key 0 check 2 (auth registry): 1
key 1 check (ptv.bin.g -- fails): 0
h - h' = 5fd6f932fda77bf76902305419f5a2f9
(h - h')^-1 = 901c9aa20cf3eba16274003126b1de11
compute_key: 0

 

eg-compute.c.txt 15.8583984375k . file
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post #105 of 315 Old 06-24-2011, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlichtefeld View Post

If there were an appliance, somewhere in the cloud, for the non-technical users that don't want to have WiRNS running locally, the simplest thing for them to have to do is on their RTVs just set their DNS servers on each Replay to that appliance's IP address.

The appliance could handle the DNS lookup and tell the RTV that the IP of the original servers are now it's IP and not the ones used by DNNA.

Rob

The problem with doing it all on an internet based server is that then that server would have to store the SD access information for every user which complicates things quite a bit. With that approach there are more security concerns, more online storage requirements, user interface requirements, etc. More importantly, however, there was a concern raised earlier regarding whether an internet-based server would be violating the SchedulesDirect terms of use with respect to redistribution. An internet based service which simply passed through account authentication from the subscriber's machine and passed back data in a translated form doesn't bear much resemblance to redistribution. A server which maintains a database of SD user account access info, and uses it to aggregate schedule information which it sends to ReplayTV units on request definitely sounds like a form of redistribution. Removing the aggregation aspect from the mix makes the question much grayer but it strikes me, nonetheless, as being much closer to the contestable approach than it is to the presumably-safe approach.

- Les
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post #106 of 315 Old 06-25-2011, 04:12 AM
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Exactly my point... Legally, Schedules Direct give that deal to individuals for a single zipcode, not to run a "server" for all the zipcodes in US - that would be redistribuiting in their view, like TiVo or Comcast or Cox do.
So all the stuff has to happen on individual computers. Is not that hard to set up.
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post #107 of 315 Old 06-25-2011, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoNic67 View Post

Exactly my point... Legally, Schedules Direct give that deal to individuals for a single zipcode, not to run a "server" for all the zipcodes in US - that would be redistribuiting in their view, like TiVo or Comcast or Cox do.
So all the stuff has to happen on individual computers. Is not that hard to set up.

Or forget schedules direct and use XMLTV which schedules direct is made from, or forget them both and get a deal with Tribune Media Services which used to provide Zap2It data for everyone, free.

They might be OK with that. They were before, likely until the support got to be too much for stuff they gave away free.

Look, we don't have to worry about licensing, the interests of other parties, all that stuff. That's just parochial, and that's the approach some people took about the "No talk of theft of service" that has been posted here for years.

Whereas the operators of the EPG server threw you all under the bus without a second thought as soon as they decided that was their best interest.

If there's a problem find a reasonable way to get around it. Get a better license agreement from Tribune, or go without it and find the data somewhere else. Screen scrape it. Get an rss feed from TVGUIDE.com, or something. Whatever. Solutions. Not worrying about stepping on someone's toes.

Having thousands of people independently establish an account at schedules direct may turn out to be the best solution. It may not, especially if we are somehow able to get a central server up to support all this.
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post #108 of 315 Old 06-25-2011, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steevo55 View Post

They might be OK with that. They were before, likely until the support got to be too much for stuff they gave away free.

Supposedly one of the biggest problems with Zap2IT labs were companies using it instead of Tribune's commercial products. They didn't have the staff to police the folks doing it, so they shut it down.

That's one reason why SD is so sensitive to the contract terms.

Robert

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post #109 of 315 Old 06-26-2011, 06:39 PM
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x = 2974247646523704746118934872007814844268287238137130823

I believe this is the private key. In hex,
x: 0x001f0d76 0xd2730d42 0xe380abee 0x0d7dde27 0x11e95f1f 0x3c5f2f47

It took a bit of work, but I've also written a small library function (in "c") that implement both signing and verifying. It is based on the eg-verify code and beecrypt. I plan on cleaning it up and releasing it to the public in a day or two.

More to follow...

-Chris

PS: I guess, in this case, the answer is not 42!

2974247646523704746118934872007814844268287238137130823, don't tell anyone!

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post #110 of 315 Old 06-26-2011, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatomon View Post

PS: I guess, in this case, the answer is not 42!

42 is still the answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything. It is *not* the answer to "What is the ReplayTV signing key"

Do *NOT* doubt Mr. Adams.

Robert

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post #111 of 315 Old 06-26-2011, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by gatomon View Post

x = 2974247646523704746118934872007814844268287238137130823

Way to go Chris!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


THANK YOU!

Amazing!!!!!!!!!
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post #112 of 315 Old 06-26-2011, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlv View Post

That was enough information to find it. It's in the image named "replay5040.rtv.gz"...

Just out of curiosity...
Does grep Activation user/Registry/software.reg return a strings that ends in "22 XD3" ?
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post #113 of 315 Old 06-26-2011, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatomon View Post

x = 2974247646523704746118934872007814844268287238137130823

I believe this is the private key. In hex,
x: 0x001f0d76 0xd2730d42 0xe380abee 0x0d7dde27 0x11e95f1f 0x3c5f2f47

It took a bit of work, but I've also written a small library function (in "c") that implement both signing and verifying. It is based on the eg-verify code and beecrypt. I plan on cleaning it up and releasing it to the public in a day or two.

More to follow...

-Chris

PS: I guess, in this case, the answer is not 42!

Good job -- that's the value I got as well.

TD
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post #114 of 315 Old 06-27-2011, 04:53 PM
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It would be a good idea to gather together examples of the use of the EGS. It would certainly help me with my program. It would be nice if it included:

Quote:


1. Entire files plus signatures.

Quote:


2. Transactions between the replaytv servers (RS) and the replaytv boxes (RB) that involve the EGS. In particular, all the parts that wirns must proxy between the RS and the RB. In particular it would be nice to have the complete back and forth transaction for (a) time sync (b) RB activation (c) software updates and (d) anything else that must be proxied.

Is there anything else that uses the EGS? Has anyone collected samples of 1 or more of these items? It would be extremely helpful at this point.

Comments?

-Chris

PS: My EGS "c" library is close to release and should work on the latest version of beecrypt (4.2.1) and run on linux (ubuntu/debian) and mac. If someone can get it to work on windoze, that would be nice. Any volunteers?

2974247646523704746118934872007814844268287238137130823, don't tell anyone!

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post #115 of 315 Old 06-27-2011, 06:11 PM
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For #1, can't you just download an image and then use extract_rtv5 to extract all the files in the image?

Images:
http://www.replaytvupgrade.com/whichimage.htm (has the latest 5xxx image)
http://rgb.cc/replaytv/

extract_rtv:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/rtvpatch/files/


This should extract all the files:

extract_rtv5 -e

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post #116 of 315 Old 06-28-2011, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatomon View Post

....Has anyone collected samples of 1 or more of these items? It would be extremely helpful at this point.
...

Have you tried to PM jlv? He had a post where he said he had 1.2Gb of data since 2006.
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post #117 of 315 Old 06-29-2011, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clach04 View Post

Have you tried to PM jlv? He had a post where he said he had 1.2Gb of data since 2006.

I think he said he'd away for a week or so...

-Chris

PS: I did grab the files from a few image files using extract_rtv. Thanks for the suggestion...

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post #118 of 315 Old 06-30-2011, 09:03 PM
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So has anyone verified that the signature key allows you to modify protected files and not have a problem on the Replay?

RNS tyime sync?

RNS Authentication?

I don't think anyone has posted that the El Gamal key that has been discovered actually works with the Replay itself.

Has anyone been doing this testing?

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post #119 of 315 Old 06-30-2011, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Space View Post
So has anyone verified that the signature key allows you to modify protected files and not have a problem on the Replay?

RNS tyime sync?

RNS Authentication?

I don't think anyone has posted that the El Gamal key that has been discovered actually works with the Replay itself.

Has anyone been doing this testing?
I hope to report on the file signatures very soon. I'm pretty confident it will work. I'm about to release a "c" library for whoever want to help. I stilll don't have the data for the time sync...

-Chris

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post #120 of 315 Old 07-01-2011, 09:33 AM
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Thanks Chris!

I am not really a C programmer (I wrote a C program once in my life) but hopefully others can help.

I'm a little confused as to who is doing what at this stage. Are people coordinating this behind the scenes or is everyone pretty much doing their own thing?

Are you in contact with Henry?

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