Church wants to watch Superbowl w/o commercials - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 01-01-2012, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Our youth minister wants to show the Superbowl to the youth group; he wants to filter out the commercials. The present plan is to set up a video switching circuit and have someone standing by to operate the video switch and select alternate programming (music videos, for example) during commercials. Of course, that person has to monitor the commercial to know when to switch back to the game.

We'd be receiving the game signal from a broadcast tv channel and converting it to video with a dtv box.

A couple of friends recommended we consider ReplayTV and start the game viewing late to allow for the eliminated commercials.

I'd prefer automatic commercial detection and automatic video switch toggling. Thusly, the youth could begin viewing the game at the normal time and we wouldn't have to manually operate the video switch.

Any recommendations on how to do this? I've seen some theoretical papers concerning techniques for detecting commercials, including one paper from IEEE.

If I need to ask this question in a different forum, please let me know. If this question is inappropriate for all avs forums, I apologize in advance.

Thanks,

Jeff
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post #2 of 25 Old 01-01-2012, 04:20 PM
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The ReplayTV solution is free and exists today, and is mature.

I fail to understand what is the need/attraction for "beginning viewing the game at the normal time". What does that bring to the party?

What you're looking for is to END watching the game as it ends.

With ReplayTV and current prime time programming, one can start watching a full three hour block of programming at 9pm and finish up right at 11pm as the last show is finishing.

If this is a youth group, frankly they wouldn't care if they started watching at the beginning or in the middle.

?????
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post #3 of 25 Old 01-01-2012, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam1991 View Post

The ReplayTV solution is free and exists today, and is mature.

I fail to understand what is the need/attraction for "beginning viewing the game at the normal time". What does that bring to the party?

What you're looking for is to END watching the game as it ends.

With ReplayTV and current prime time programming, one can start watching a full three hour block of programming at 9pm and finish up right at 11pm as the last show is finishing.

If this is a youth group, frankly they wouldn't care if they started watching at the beginning or in the middle.

?????

It's a small group, about 7 kids; the youth minister was probably thinking most of them would just stay home if it started too late. You have a good point, he could forget to tell them the truth about actual game start time and they could do another activity. For example, they could whine about the game for 2 hours. )

RTV maturity is not a concern. Buying a RTV at this point is.

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post #4 of 25 Old 01-02-2012, 07:23 AM
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I have four RTV 50xx sitting here, doing nothing. Cast about here and someone in your area will have one he's happy to donate to the cause.

Methinks it's a tradeoff: you can entertain them for an extra two hours up front in a single block and *then* start showing the game all as one thing, or you can interrupt them during the commercials with a black screen and try to do something to keep them occupied for five to ten minutes at a stretch as they fidget around with their naturally short attention span.

I just thought it would be easier to find a 2 to 2.5 hour activity, or set of activities, that they would respond better to in a block.

Either way, the game ends naturally late on a Sunday, with school the next day. There's no way around *that*.
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post #5 of 25 Old 01-02-2012, 07:25 AM
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And BTW, RTV isn't the only thing that will mark commercials as it records and skip them if you start playback while the show is still recording; however, it's one of only two that I've ever heard of (Windows Media Center combined with the ShowAnalyzer plug in is the other).
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post #6 of 25 Old 01-02-2012, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpbledsoe View Post

...RTV maturity is not a concern. Buying a RTV at this point is...

Well, if you have a PC with a tuner card, you can record the game on the HDD and then run 'some program' that adam1991 has mentioned in the past - around the time the ReplayTV Guide was 'Going Away', IIRC - that removes the commercials *AFTER* the program has completed recording. Then you can burn it to a DVD and watch it as soon as you've completed the entire process.

OR you can record the entire game on a DVDR w/HDD, like the Magnavox 2160A/513/515, MANUALLY edit out all the commercials, burn the game to a DVD (1 or 2) and then watch it.

OR you can start recording the game on the DVDR w/HDD at the beginning, but don't begin watching it via 'Chase Play' until ~1 hour later. Every time a commercial pops up, you grab the remote and SKIP FORWARD 1 minute (or 30 seconds - however you programmed it) until you're back into the game.

OR you can do the same as the previous idea but with a TiVo.

Otherwise, as the majority of ReplayTV owners already know, Automatic 'Commericial Advance' is great - so great it's probably one of the main reasons ReplayTV / DNNA / SonicBlue (pick a year, pick a name) is gone and TiVo is still around.

If you want a more extensive 'Technical' discussion about 'Commercial Advance', CLICK on my FAQ in the STICKYs and read the extremely technical information at Molehill.Org posted by one of the original ReplayTV Gurus, the unfortunately now late Todd Larason.

I noticed that in the ~20 minutes it took me to compose / proofread / edit my reply, adam1991 has popped in TWICE!

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post #7 of 25 Old 01-02-2012, 03:19 PM
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Ted Turner thinks you are a criminal if you skip commercials. Think of what you are teaching the children...

God split himself into a myriad parts that he might have friends.' This may not be true, but it sounds good - and is no sillier than any other theology. - Lazarus Long
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post #8 of 25 Old 01-02-2012, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazak View Post

Ted Turner thinks you are a criminal if you skip commercials. Think of what you are teaching the children...

Teaching them to skip the best parts of the Super Bowl broadcast?
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post #9 of 25 Old 01-02-2012, 06:39 PM
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I've said it elsewhere, and I'll say it here: the entertainment industry can think what they want. In the end, it's all about ME.

And THAT'S something they understand.

Frankly, I think much of what they put on TV is criminal.
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post #10 of 25 Old 01-03-2012, 09:12 AM
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Adding another wrinkle, up until last year it was a copyright violation for churches to host Superbowl parties w/o paying licensing fees. I don't know if the small number of kids would make a difference. (probably not).

According to THIS PAGE the NFL gave a blanket license to Churches with some restrictions

Quote:


Thanks to concessions by NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, the NFL will not block religious organizations from hosting Super Bowl viewing parties. There are some important rules, however, to follow to side step possible copyright infringement:

1) Churches must show the game live on equipment they use in the course of ministry at their premises; recordings of the show are not permitted. (If you want some help obtaining licensing for recording TV shows and film, check out PERMISSIONSplus)

2) Churches cannot charge admission for the party. The NFL has stated, however, that churches may take up a donation to defray the cost of the event.

3) It’s advisable for churches to call the event a “big game” party rather than a “Super Bowl” party, as both the “NFL” and “Super Bowl” are trademarked and protected intellectual property.

So, recording the show on a PVR to edit commercials would violate the NFL copyright.

There may not be a problem with manually switching things in and out. (personally, I don't think it's worth the trouble, the commercials are sometimes the best part... and I know our church sometimes has a superbowl commercial sermon.)

I don't think the "fair use" exception applies since a church doing the showing is considered a "performance".

IANAL, but this does appear to be a minefield!

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post #11 of 25 Old 01-04-2012, 12:06 AM
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At the risk of stating the obvious. there's no way to skip commercials on live TV.

If someone wants to watch without ads, one would have to wait a while and begin watching a while after the game starts.
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post #12 of 25 Old 01-07-2012, 01:23 PM
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you want those kids to walk away thinking the church is sooo lame?
chances are the take away those kids will have with a RTV viewing experiencce is...."standard definition football hurts my eyes, thank The Lord the youth minister did not pick our tv at home"

Seriously the RTV is remarrkable in that commercial advance worked in real time. SageTV works on HD content but commskip can only nalyse the files once the reccording is complete.

So i vote for real live human commercial avoidance, and some of those ommercials will be so good the censor might choose to show them anywyay.
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post #13 of 25 Old 01-07-2012, 01:46 PM
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I thought the only reason to watch the super bowl was for the commercials
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post #14 of 25 Old 01-07-2012, 02:39 PM
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bah. SD, HD--it's just a silly game, doesn't make one whit of difference.

Also, maybe all the church has is an older TV.

You know what they say is the best camera? It's the one you had on hand to get the picture with. Well, same with TV--getting the show in the first place is what's most important, no matter the format.
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post #15 of 25 Old 01-10-2012, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpbledsoe View Post

It's a small group, about 7 kids; the youth minister was probably thinking most of them would just stay home if it started too late. You have a good point, he could forget to tell them the truth about actual game start time and they could do another activity. For example, they could whine about the game for 2 hours. )

What kind of idiot kids wouldn't know the actual game time?

Is he also planning on cutting away from the halftime show? Madonna is performing, does he really want the young'uns exposed to that?
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post #16 of 25 Old 01-11-2012, 03:05 AM
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dude, *I* don't want to be exposed to that...
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post #17 of 25 Old 01-11-2012, 10:04 AM
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What is the reason for this? To avoid inappropriate commercials and wardrobe malfunctions? I feel sorry for the person in charge of watching the whole game and inserting alternative content. This is a sports event, not a prime time movie so the commercials breaks are haphazard and irregular in length. When does the person manning this thing take a bathroom or food break? Doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
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post #18 of 25 Old 01-11-2012, 05:49 PM
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I think it's perfectly OK to say, "We think the super bowl has turned into something not suited to our kids, so we're just not going to watch it."

Maybe it WAS suitable for the kids, but like everything on TV it has devolved into crap and filth. So be it. Quit trying to make it something it's not. Mourn for what it was, and move on.

Prime time network TV, especially CBS, is NOT suitable for kids at all. Yeah, we used to sit and watch MASH and Carol Burnett and Mary Tyler Moore and whatnot; those days are long gone, and no amount of my wishing will make CBS suitable for children. So be it.
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post #19 of 25 Old 01-13-2012, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reden View Post

Adding another wrinkle, up until last year it was a copyright violation for churches to host Superbowl parties w/o paying licensing fees. I don't know if the small number of kids would make a difference. (probably not).

According to THIS PAGE the NFL gave a blanket license to Churches with some restrictions



So, recording the show on a PVR to edit commercials would violate the NFL copyright.

There may not be a problem with manually switching things in and out. (personally, I don't think it's worth the trouble, the commercials are sometimes the best part... and I know our church sometimes has a superbowl commercial sermon.)

I don't think the "fair use" exception applies since a church doing the showing is considered a "performance".

IANAL, but this does appear to be a minefield!

What size is the screen?

It looks to me that, if the screen is <= 55 inches, and you are using no more than 6 speakers (no more than 4 in one room), that it would not be an infringement.

17 U.S.C. 110(5)(B)(i)(II)
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post #20 of 25 Old 01-15-2012, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by ReplayTVFanBoi View Post

What size is the screen?

It looks to me that, if the screen is <= 55 inches, and you are using no more than 6 speakers (no more than 4 in one room), that it would not be an infringement.

17 U.S.C. 110(5)(B)(i)(II)

Quote:
(B) communication by an establishment of a transmission or retransmission embodying a performance or display of a nondramatic musical work intended to be received by the general public

Not sure the Superbowl qualifies as a musical work. :-) The NFL's license does require showing it live. I guess it really depends on what message one wishes to impart to one's kids.
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post #21 of 25 Old 01-17-2012, 06:54 AM
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Best thing about the Superbowl is the great deals you typically get on big screen TVs in the week or two before the game. I'm looking for a 65+ this year. Come on March Madness!!!!!

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post #22 of 25 Old 02-10-2012, 08:02 PM
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So what happened?
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post #23 of 25 Old 02-13-2012, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonyad View Post

So what happened?

Well, a Coca-Cola commercial slipped through and all the children's eyeballs popped out of their heads and exploded. Then the church was struck by lightning and engulfed in flames. There were no survivors.

The NFL heard about this theft of service where the participants weren't watching the commercials and levied the maximum penalty on the organizers who weren't present (and therefore weren't killed) and the estates of the deceased, including the children. Each individual who could be identified was fined $250,000.00 and the ones still alive were sentenced to 5 years in federal prison.

All agreed that this outcome wasn't as bad as the actual game.
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post #24 of 25 Old 02-24-2012, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tirebiter View Post

Well, a Coca-Cola commercial slipped through and all the children's eyeballs popped out of their heads and exploded. Then the church was struck by lightning and engulfed in flames. There were no survivors.

The NFL heard about this theft of service where the participants weren't watching the commercials and levied the maximum penalty on the organizers who weren't present (and therefore weren't killed) and the estates of the deceased, including the children. Each individual who could be identified was fined $250,000.00 and the ones still alive were sentenced to 5 years in federal prison.

All agreed that this outcome wasn't as bad as the actual game.

Absent a response from the OP, I'll go with that story
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post #25 of 25 Old 02-25-2012, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tirebiter View Post

Well, a Coca-Cola commercial slipped through and all the children's eyeballs popped out of their heads and exploded. Then the church was struck by lightning and engulfed in flames. There were no survivors.

The NFL heard about this theft of service where the participants weren't watching the commercials and levied the maximum penalty on the organizers who weren't present (and therefore weren't killed) and the estates of the deceased, including the children. Each individual who could be identified was fined $250,000.00 and the ones still alive were sentenced to 5 years in federal prison.

All agreed that this outcome wasn't as bad as the actual game.


See, Ted was right.

God split himself into a myriad parts that he might have friends.' This may not be true, but it sounds good - and is no sillier than any other theology. - Lazarus Long
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