Replay MPEG Sync problem, this tool may help us... - Page 14 - AVS Forum
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post #391 of 396 Old 11-11-2003, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rich A
Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff D
Rich, yeah I wasn't saying that was an average. The sample shows a spike.

And the point was that the replay high quality mpeg bitrate does go outside the DVD limit of 10 Mb/s (9.8Mb/s actually).

A while back some users were stating that dvd authoring programs complained about the replay mpegs. Some of us responded that the reason the authoring packages weren't happy was because of the bitrate.

You countered with you suspected it was incorrect header information that the app was complaining about. And you had not seen a replay MPEG go above 10Mb/s. (see below for more comments about this.)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...76#post2018276
Sorry to not get back to you sooner Jeff. Been busy working on my home theater (with a home made HTPC) Is there any chance you could send me that same 2 gop sample but with about 5 or 10 seconds of it's unchanged frames before and after it? In other words, I'd like to get like 15 or 20 seconds of that clip with the "spike" in the middle. FWIW, I STILL can't understand why even if I see spikes, they still author and play perfectly and why all but one of the supposedly bad RPTV version 5 mpegs sent to me also worked fine for me. The problem with that 2-GOP sample is that with only 2 GOPs or about 30 frames I don't have enough to work with.

Also I've seen various utilities (like BitRateViewer) show large spikes on rare occasions here as well. Honesty, I have to say they never affected any editing, authoring, or playback. So I always attributed it to either the utility being use as mis-calculating that particular bit rate, or that they really had no effect on the playback even when used as is.

Having said all that, to be truthful when I said I never saw a bit rate over 10 Mb/s, (If I remember correctly) I was talking about the mpegs of my ReplayTV 4080 and those I got from 5K owner's samples. I haven't looked at an RPTV mpeg or used them in the last 3 or 4 months other than for viewing and time shifting.

But I'd really like to see that 2-GOP sample along with it's adjacent few seconds of mpeg.
Rich, I'd be happy to email you the other surrounding GOPs. Since the MPEG spec is based off per-second I figured a second would be a good example. 2 GOPs = 30 frames = 1 second of time. I was assuming you'd guess the preceeding GOP was in fact an average that would show the clip was over the max.

I can send the clip, but it's not a full clip, it will just be video stream. I can check if MPG2Cut will cut it correctly (I'm not sure it will).

Glad to hear you got a HTPC going! It's a whole new world! =)
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post #392 of 396 Old 11-11-2003, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Rich, the file is 20MB should I ftp it? I tried your server, I guess it's down.
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post #393 of 396 Old 11-11-2003, 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by Jeff D
Rich, the file is 20MB should I ftp it? I tried your server, I guess it's down.
Opps. Yes the server software trial period ran out. <grin> That machine is now my dedicated HTPC (is replacing the ReplayTVs) Lemme see if I can cook up something else temporarily.

Rich
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post #394 of 396 Old 11-11-2003, 05:43 PM
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Hey Rich,

A while back you said the Hauppauge WinPVR 250 gave you a better picture than your ReplayTV. I know this is waaaay off topic, but I presume you mean better than your ReplayTV 4080?

That doesn't surprise me, since MPEG's from my ReplayTV 3030 (upgraded to a "3120") are also a hell of a lot better than MPEG's from my ReplayTV 4160. In fact, MEDIUM mpeg's from the "3120" are better than HIGH mpeg's from the 4160.

Have you ever had a chance to compare ReplayTV 3000-series mpeg's to WinPVR-250 mpeg's?

Thanks...

Bob Simandl ... somewhere near St. Louis
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post #395 of 396 Old 11-11-2003, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Robert Simandl
Hey Rich,

A while back you said the Hauppauge WinPVR 250 gave you a better picture than your ReplayTV. I know this is waaaay off topic, but I presume you mean better than your ReplayTV 4080?

That doesn't surprise me, since MPEG's from my ReplayTV 3030 (upgraded to a "3120") are also a hell of a lot better than MPEG's from my ReplayTV 4160. In fact, MEDIUM mpeg's from the "3120" are better than HIGH mpeg's from the 4160.

Have you ever had a chance to compare ReplayTV 3000-series mpeg's to WinPVR-250 mpeg's?

Thanks...
No comparison, even with my 3000 series. FWIW, the mpeg is fully adjustable so I can configure it exactly to fit my needs. Ie, set the motion estimation, audio bit rate, GOP size and tell it to use DVD proper muxing etc. I set the target video bit rate and the max video bit rate for excellent variable video bit rate encoding. . So on average they come out at around 7 Mb/s with peaks set at 9 Mb/s and the target at 7. . Very good motion estimation so the low motion scenes drop down quite low with of course no drop in quality. (there's also a variable noise filter that can be applied) The quality is hands down the best I have ever seen. And I've seen a lot. (sorry for the off topic here guys) It will record in real timie up to 12 mb/s with less than 4 percent CPU use. Really sweet. In fact I sometimes edit out the commercials on that pc while it's recording another show. No fixing, no moving files around, no wasted time. It's been so high quality and so reliable that I decided to use it to re-capture much of the stuff I've already done with the ReplayTVs. So it's capturing about 6 hours a day of various programs. I'm just waiting for the SnapStream software people to work out multiple capture card support. Then I'll stick two of those PVR-250's into one box so I can watch live TV on one channel and record on another. (or record two different shows at the same time) And by the way, I also built up one with the PVR-350 which also has stereo FM radio. I'm setting that up to also time shift my favorite radio programs and burn them to cheap CDRs so I can catch up on "Art Bell's" latest during long rides in the car. Ah life is good. May end up giving the three ReplayTV's I have to my kids.

Rich
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post #396 of 396 Old 01-11-2004, 11:24 AM
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Back in mid-August, I registered and joined this forum looking for the answer for how to burn DVD's with my Mac of content harvested from RTV that would stay in sync.

In late-September, 'worldofaaron' supplied the correct answer!

But I didn't know that until today!

Lemme connect the dots for others who also might have missed the import. worldofaaron: Sorry for having misunderstood. In this note I go beyond the "try rtvtools" to "find rtvtools HERE; It definitely supports your platform; Here's how to use it to solve your problem."

rtvtools can be found within another thread in this very AVS forum at:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=314017

agent-x: Please correct the following assertion if I am wrong:

The first message contains an attachment that is the current definitive version.

That zip file contains binaries for Linux, Win32, and MacOSX!

There are 3 programs: evtdump, rtvedit and rtvconvert. Use of evtdump is optional. Use of the other two is REQUIRED, but SUFFICIENT to take RTV output and make it acceptable for other tools, expecially DVD authoring tools to work.

Going backwards, so you understand why each step is necessary:

rtvconvert takes the output of rtvedit and makes it into a .mpg file (or with the -d option into the demultiplexed .m2v/.mp2 pair) acceptable to DVD authoring software. The resulting streams have the expected headers so that sync is preserved.

rtvedit takes an RTV .mpg file and prepares it for processing by rtvconvert. Along the way it gives you the option of doing editing. rtvedit can: do the whole program without cuts, delete segments at specified timestamps, reorderr segments, split a program into multiple output segments, take multiple segments from multiple input .mpg files and merge them as you like into a single output.

rtvedit requires an edit script to understand what to do. The documentation describes how you can create such a script by hand. Or you can utilize the RTV .evt file and the evtdump program to generate such a script.

IMPORTANT: There are two ways of keeping time: The one used by the RTV event clock, and used in the .evt file (which assumes 30 frames per second, I believe.), and the one used within the stream (counting frames at the NTSC rate of 29.97 per second I believe.) Short answer: If you watch the video in Quick time to learn the cut points, copy those times into the edit script but call rtvedit with the '-t1' flag to alert it to the fact that you're using time from an external application, not from the RTV events.

For many programs, I saw no value to keeping the .ndx and .evt files, so I have to build the edit scripts by hand. You can just remember to export everything, and run evtdump to create the edit script for you.

ALSO IMPORTANT: Run the output of rtvedit through a Quicktime or VLC viewer to make sure the cuts are where you expect. Sometimes RTV's event detection gets things wrong. evtdump has options to tweak this, but I don't understand them yet.

The resulting .mpg output (or .m2v/.mp2) is QUITE happy. The author of rtvtools really got it right. We can now not worry about goppler or demux, or missing mpeg tools, or any of that stuff. The tool chain is now:

RTV->evtdump->rtvedit->rtvconvert->sizzle/captyTV/you-fav->disk-copy/toast->DVD

I'm VERY happy!

-wdc
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