Announcing the general release of ReplayTV software 5.1 for RTV5000s and 5500s - Page 9 - AVS Forum
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Old 10-19-2003, 04:39 PM
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:( Ditto the stuttering problems when watching live and recorded programs. My unit seems to stutter every 15 minutes or so. Very frustrating!
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Old 10-19-2003, 06:02 PM
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You are not supposed to post anything if your replaytvs work just fine (like mine do). Such posts are boring and have no educational value. Posts from people who tried to do RMA, because they didnt get the 5.1 upgrade right away, before learning how to do net connect, are much more amusing.

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Originally posted by Norbert
I have 2 stock 5040 units (no refurb) and they work flawlessly. I guess I have been blessed. I have them networked on a a hardwired LAN and plugged into the same switch.

See my website which has the diagram of the LAN layout.

http://trebron2.tripod.com
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Old 10-20-2003, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Amazingly Smooth
Jleavens, is this issue something that intends to be fixed? Or is it just a limitation of the hardware? I do not experience this, but I mostly record in high quality (not sure that even matters).

Cheers
Just to be clear, the issue I'm talking about is not really a stutter (don't want to confused this with other problems), but could be better described as a "dropped frames" issue. It is most evident when watching a channel with a scroll, because you'll see a slight jump in the scroll at certain points. The result is a very minor irritation, and a large percentage of people never notice it. But with some programs it is definitely more noticeable.

I couldn't say if they intend to fix it or not. I certainly hope so, but it's not going to ruin my experience in the meantime. I have never seen/heard an audio stutter associated with this issue, so maybe other people are describing different problems.

Remember, it's just television...
Planet Replay: http://www.planetreplay.com
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Old 10-20-2003, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jleavens
Just to be clear, the issue I'm talking about is not really a stutter (don't want to confused this with other problems), but could be better described as a "dropped frames" issue.
I notice this every once in a while. It's usually very minor - almost to the point where you wonder if you really saw anything - but after a while it can become distracting. This is something I would like to see fixed as it makes me question my sanity sometimes. I want to know that I'm not sane - there should be no doubts. ;)

Edit: This was noticed before and after the 5.1 upgrade.
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Old 10-20-2003, 03:21 PM
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I haven't noticed this recently, but what I have seen (and I think it is similar) is that if there is a ticker at the bottom and there is a lot of motion on the screen it seems that there are interlace issues--every other line of the text is a frame behind. I didn't notice this until I got my new Hitachi LCD RPTV so at first I thought it was the TV. However, I now believe it is the RTV. Regardless, I don't see it often and can't recall seeing it since 5.1.

Cheers

Except, of course, in paranoid delusions for those that believe.
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Old 10-20-2003, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jleavens
...the issue I'm talking about is not really a stutter (don't want to confused this with other problems), but could be better described as a "dropped frames" issue. ... I have never seen/heard an audio stutter associated with this issue...
this is an important distinction. the "stutter" that i've seen (and posted about) could also be described as an audio loop (usually accompanied by a freeze requiring a reboot), but i also continually see this "dropped frames" issue. it looks like the picture skips ahead a fraction of a second.

as you say, it is most evident on scrolls (like CNBC ticker) but i see it on all recorded shows. the odd things is, if i rewind and replay the scene, the playback is completely smooth! so it's not like the data isn't there, it's like the decoder is a little slow and misses a frame or two, or a buffer gets emptied when it shouldn't, or some other i-don't-really-know-what-i'm-talking-about-but-i'll-make-up-some-video-related-explanation reason.

i have seen this ever since i got the Replay, with early v5.0 software and now continuing with v5.1. i'm fairly tolerant of picture quality problems, but this one annoys the heck out of me because every darn skip is noticeable, and it happens very frequently.
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Old 10-20-2003, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by GreenLantern
this is an important distinction. the "stutter" that i've seen (and posted about) could also be described as an audio loop (usually accompanied by a freeze requiring a reboot), but i also continually see this "dropped frames" issue. it looks like the picture skips ahead a fraction of a second.

as you say, it is most evident on scrolls (like CNBC ticker) but i see it on all recorded shows. the odd things is, if i rewind and replay the scene, the playback is completely smooth! so it's not like the data isn't there, it's like the decoder is a little slow and misses a frame or two, or a buffer gets emptied when it shouldn't, or some other i-don't-really-know-what-i'm-talking-about-but-i'll-make-up-some-video-related-explanation reason.

i have seen this ever since i got the Replay, with early v5.0 software and now continuing with v5.1. i'm fairly tolerant of picture quality problems, but this one annoys the heck out of me because every darn skip is noticeable, and it happens very frequently.
I really need to write a guide so people can always use the same terms to describe a problem.

There's the momentary freeze, where the image goes static for a fraction of a second to return back to normal video. This is generally caused by something in the system blocking and preventing anything else from running. What the replay is doing?!?! Who knows, but you see it generally a second or two after changing a channel (yes even using 5.1).

The audio loop/video freeze is exactly that a freeze. The video freezes and the audio playback buffer is a looping over the same segment of decoded audio. The audio buffer is a circular buffer that gets refilled ahead of the play position, when the buffer is exhausted the buffer starts to fill at the start again. So the buffer gets refillled ahead of where the audio is being played from and it loops. What you are seeing is a the decoder (or encoder) stalling (once again something is blocking) and the playback buffer not being refilled. The audio playback is on a higher priority or interupt driven or running on other hardware and is uneffected by the blocking that freezes the decoding. Most audio streamers work this way.


Now, for the scrolling that's very interesting. I've never seen this and I do have a question as to the cause. I'm not saying it's an excuse, but it might help to explain what is happening... Is the source "clean" in otherwords is it a solid image, with no "noise", "snow", wavy lines? The replay is VBR and noisy signals require more data to encode the same clean signal. MPEG is a format that works by updating changes in the scenes, so the less changes the less data needed to update these changes. Noise and snow are the MPEG encoder's worst nightmare.


GL, you are right on that it could be on the decoder side. If the system is busy with other stuff is going on in the system. The decoder is setup to throw away frames if the playback is getting behind, so that "may" be what you see. If you IVS or have other net traffic or recordings going on this could explain a lot. Also playingback/streaming/recording high quality will be harder on the system because of the bandwidth required for high quality. The higher quality the more bits, the more bits the more bits... you got to move them around and that takes a bit of time.
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Old 10-20-2003, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Amazingly Smooth
I haven't noticed this recently, but what I have seen (and I think it is similar) is that if there is a ticker at the bottom and there is a lot of motion on the screen it seems that there are interlace issues--every other line of the text is a frame behind. I didn't notice this until I got my new Hitachi LCD RPTV so at first I thought it was the TV. However, I now believe it is the RTV. Regardless, I don't see it often and can't recall seeing it since 5.1.

Cheers
The every other line being a frame behind, that sounds like the monitor may be a bit at fault. The refresh rates on the LCD monitors isn't as fast as you might expect. You may be seeing several things all coming together in the worst way.... How does the LCD look using the progressive out of the replay? That might just be better...
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Old 10-21-2003, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff D
I really need to write a guide so people can always use the same terms to describe a problem.

There's the momentary freeze, where the image goes static for a fraction of a second to return back to normal video. This is generally caused by something in the system blocking and preventing anything else from running. What the replay is doing?!?! Who knows, but you see it generally a second or two after changing a channel (yes even using 5.1).

The audio loop/video freeze is exactly that a freeze. The video freezes and the audio playback buffer is a looping over the same segment of decoded audio. The audio buffer is a circular buffer that gets refilled ahead of the play position, when the buffer is exhausted the buffer starts to fill at the start again. So the buffer gets refillled ahead of where the audio is being played from and it loops. What you are seeing is a the decoder (or encoder) stalling (once again something is blocking) and the playback buffer not being refilled. The audio playback is on a higher priority or interupt driven or running on other hardware and is uneffected by the blocking that freezes the decoding. Most audio streamers work this way.

Jeff D,

That sounds like a good explanation of the problem that I'm seeing and it also may explain why changing channels seems to correct or resync the audio.

Bob
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Old 10-21-2003, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff D
...Now, for the scrolling that's very interesting. ... Is the source "clean"... If you IVS or have other net traffic or recordings going on this could explain a lot. ...
i guess it's subjective, but i think i have a pretty clean signal, especially when i compare it to some standard-quality IVS shows i've received. (i admit to having what someone told me is a ground loop "wave" that scrolls up the screen, but that wasn't always present, even though this "skip" or "dropped frame" problem always was.)

the IVS question is interesting. there are times when i do a lot of IVS, including simultaneous sending and receiving; there are other times when i do no IVS. i cannot say with certainty whether i notice any correlation between the "skip" or "dropped frame" thing and IVS. i'll try to watch more carefully. i will say that when i saw it in the recorded playback yesterday, IVS send+receive was taking place. (DVA usage is infrequent and short, just copying to PC, no streaming back to Replay.)
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