RTV PCE vs. GBPVR, BeyondTV, MythTV, SageTV, TVedia, and MCE - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 36 Old 07-19-2006, 11:05 AM - Thread Starter
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After finally making and using an HTPC with GBPVR I can say it is missing a few features that maybe even BeyondTV, MythTV, SageTV, TVedia, and MCE are missing. I will be updating this as I learn more about each software and their individual features and limitations. A spreadsheet will be in the works. Any large or small detail that can be provided will be appreciated. The number of asterisks indicate personal importance.

The following are a mix of features RTV 55xx has and what RTV PCE may have. Hopefully RTV PCE will have most of the RTV 55xx, except what has been stated it will not have.
1. Remembering last position in a show for resuming at later time. *****
2. Slow-motion playback ***
3. Notification that the software is going to start recording something ***
4. Show|Nav: ***
5. Previous/Last ****
6. Return to Live **
7. Overlap Manager (this can actually be fixed in most HTPC software with a second tuner and using padding and conflict management) **
8. Very long buffer, even with show changes on same channel. **
9. Notification that show is buffered and data will be lost on a channel change. ****
10. Predictable recording*** (Again, HTPC fix is to use multiple tuners and conflict management)
11. So far, of the HTPC software only MCE has support for Closed Captioning. All others are hacks for PVR-250/350. The CC on GBPVR is bothersome. SageTV CC might be good. I haven't tried it yet ****
12. Auto ComSkip

Features RTV 55xx doesn't have and RTV PCE may not have and other HTPC software does.
1. Integrated free realtime remote web admin of recordings with the ability to cancel a recording (without plugins or 3rd party software, ie Wirns and DVArchive. my.replaytv.com is not realtime and is too slow) *****
2. Integrated DVD player. *****
3. Save buffer to a recording. ***
4. Weather plugin ***

What none of them have.
1. Audio normalization across the board for archived shows, recorded shows, buffered "LiveTV", DVD and music.

Developments since first post are BeyondTV4 webadmin sucks. Based on price, features, and design I think ReplayTV PCE is too expensive over the longterm even if it does provide all of the features possible. I am not a Linux user so MythTV is not a choice for me even though it looks really good. SageTV 5 seems excellent for only $80 but is missing parental control over imported media. GBPVR is great for being free and even if they charged up to $80 it would still be a good choice. Why would I go with MCE 2005 when SageTV and GBPVR exist?

I still need help. I have question marks on the spreadsheet included in HTPC files. The zip file is an xls spreadsheet.
LL

 

HTPC.zip 1.7724609375k . file

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post #2 of 36 Old 07-19-2006, 11:31 AM
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I will be interested in your findings. I have tried a couple of solutions. MCE is "ok" but the biggest annoyance for a PC user is the 30 buffer limitation. With ReplayTV I am accustomed to hitting pause and walking away from the TV. With MCE, 30 minutes later it is going to start playing, so you will hear these voices or whatever and it is really creepie. I tried Myth / Knopp Myth, but never got it working with my hardware....

-Roger
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post #3 of 36 Old 07-19-2006, 11:33 AM
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This has the potential to be an interesting thread but rather than use asterisks which are completely subjective and just confuses the purpose of distinguishing the differences between products, just list the feature differences. If you feel you must use asterisks, numbers, blue moons, green clovers, just put them at the end and not in front. It would probably just be easiest to place a "+" in front of a feature that one product has and/or a "-" in front of a missing or absent feature.

A similar comparison thread was done in the HTPC forum for the HDTV tuner cards.

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post #4 of 36 Old 07-19-2006, 11:40 AM
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This has the potential to be an interesting thread but rather than use asterisks which are completely subjective and just confuses the purpose of distinguishing the differences between products, just list the feature differences. If you feel you must use asterisks, numbers, blue moons, green clovers, just put them at the end and not in front. It would probably just be easiest to place a "+" in front of a feature that one product has and/or a "-" in front of a missing or absent feature.

A similar comparison thread was done in the HTPC forum for the HDTV tuner cards.
Look at the first post in this thread and scroll down toward the middle of the post.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...DTV+card+guide

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post #5 of 36 Old 07-19-2006, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTK
This has the potential to be an interesting thread but rather than use asterisks which are completely subjective and just confuses the purpose of distinguishing the differences between products, just list the feature differences. If you feel you must use asterisks, numbers, blue moons, green clovers, just put them at the end and not in front. It would probably just be easiest to place a "+" in front of a feature that one product has and/or a "-" in front of a missing or absent feature.

A similar comparison thread was done in the HTPC forum for the HDTV tuner cards.
Look at the first post in this thread and scroll down toward the middle of the post.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...DTV+card+guide
I'll place them at the end. Once I get the spreadsheet made it will have a column with a number. I would like people to post what is most important to them. Only Cisco would use blue moons and green clovers. Asterisks (stars) are pretty common. Think movie and Netflix ratings. This is an AV forum.

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post #6 of 36 Old 07-19-2006, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvasco
I'll place them at the end. Once I get the spreadsheet made it will have a column with a number. I would like people to post what is most important to them. Only Cisco would use blue moons and green clovers. Asterisks (stars) are pretty common. Think movie and Netflix ratings. This is an AV forum.
This is an AV forum? Really? ;) My comments about blue moons and green clovers was intended as a joke, sorry you didn't pick up on that. With regards to asterisks/stars, I am fully familiar with their usage but to assign a subjective importance weighting for each feature is pointless and as meaningful as most polls here on AVS. Movie ratings and Netflix give a rating for the entire movie, not individual ratings on special effects, script, dialogue, sound effects, acting, etc, just one number. If you want to make any such analogy to the various PVR options, you would assign an overall score to the product.

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post #7 of 36 Old 07-19-2006, 11:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTK
This is an AV forum? Really? ;) My comments about blue moons and green clovers was intended as a joke, sorry you didn't pick up on that. With regards to asterisks/stars, I am fully familiar with their usage but to assign a subjective importance weighting for each feature is pointless and as meaningful as most polls here on AVS. Movie ratings and Netflix give a rating for the entire movie, not individual ratings on special effects, script, dialogue, sound effects, acting, etc, just one number. If you want to make any such analogy to the various PVR options, you would assign an overall score to the product.
I am going to keep the post as is. It is hard for me to believe you are trying to tell me how to post my threads. Obviously, I don't see it as constructive criticism. Your posts really didn't deserve responses. Please keep comments to features of HTPC software.

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post #8 of 36 Old 07-20-2006, 12:51 AM
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To be honest, I don't see the point of this. Your post #1 lists an extraordinarily small subset of the features that are available in most HTPC systems, from a very narrow ReplayTV perspective, with desirability ratings that are relevant only to you. It also doesn't list the numerous bugs, limitations, reboots, noise problems (most 50xx series), network problems, tuner problems, playback problems, etc., of the ReplayTV 5xxx series.

Feature #11 - Closed captioning. Huh? The ReplayTV 5xxx series supports CC.
Feature #12 - Best encoder. Are you claiming that the ReplayTV 5xxx series has the best encoder? Are you kidding?

Meaningful comparisons of very different products are difficult to do. It requires a great deal of time with each product, thoroughly researching its capabilities, limitations, and bugs. A simple feature matrix isn't going to give anywhere near a complete picture of the full capabilities and limitations of each product. For HTPC products, the comparison is particularly difficult because it depends so heavily on the hardware and software configuration of the PC.

In the end, I think that you will wind up with a comparison that is relevant only to you, and that it would be a mistake for others to base purchasing decisions on your results alone. Most of the so-called reviews and comparisons for all types of products on the Internet and in magazines are extremely incomplete and frequently inaccurate. Some sites will do accurate and in-depth reviews of particular products, but those are rare (and magazines almost never do).

rochurch - The 30-minute MCE 2005 buffer limitation can be annoying, but the simple workaround is just to hit "Record" on the MCE remote (noting that recording starts at the actual live position). You can always delete the recording (if the show title is selected, the "Clear" button on the remote will delete without entering submenus, except for a confirmation). MCE 2005 also chains the live buffer with programs recorded on that channel while live buffering was active.
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post #9 of 36 Old 07-20-2006, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceCadet
To be honest, I don't see the point of this. Your post #1 lists an extraordinarily small subset of the features that are available in most HTPC systems, from a very narrow ReplayTV perspective, with desirability ratings that are relevant only to you. It also doesn't list the numerous bugs, limitations, reboots, noise problems (most 50xx series), network problems, tuner problems, playback problems, etc., of the ReplayTV 5xxx series.

Feature #11 - Closed captioning. Huh? The ReplayTV 5xxx series supports CC.
Feature #12 - Best encoder. Are you claiming that the ReplayTV 5xxx series has the best encoder? Are you kidding?

Meaningful comparisons of very different products are difficult to do. It requires a great deal of time with each product, thoroughly researching its capabilities, limitations, and bugs. A simple feature matrix isn't going to give anywhere near a complete picture of the full capabilities and limitations of each product. For HTPC products, the comparison is particularly difficult because it depends so heavily on the hardware and software configuration of the PC.

In the end, I think that you will wind up with a comparison that is relevant only to you, and that it would be a mistake for others to base purchasing decisions on your results alone. Most of the so-called reviews and comparisons for all types of products on the Internet and in magazines are extremely incomplete and frequently inaccurate. Some sites will do accurate and in-depth reviews of particular products, but those are rare (and magazines almost never do).
Please point out to me where these HTPC programs have these features. My limitation is to RTV, GBPVR, and browsing and searching the forums of the various HTPC software

I don't have a single problem with my RTV 5040. The network problem helped me learn about DHCP and static IPs.

I know that RTV 5xxx has CC, it is implied. Of the HTPC software only MCE has out of the box support. That is why at the top of that list it says "The following are a mix of features RTV 55xx has and what RTV PCE may have. Hopefully RTV PCE will have most of the RTV 55xx, except what has been stated it will not have."

On the encoder the results I am getting so far from a Hauppauge PVR-350 the RTV encoder is much better. Especially for blacks. I was running out of time when I added that in, I will reword it. I did state "Any large or small detail that can be provided will be appreciated." Of course, limited to HTPC software.

If this thread only helps me, so be it. If it helps one other person that will be even better. It doesn't mean I don't have the liberty of starting it. If someone doesn't like it they should just ignore it and move on. I keep getting busybody posts. I want help, not unconstructive criticism.

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post #10 of 36 Old 07-20-2006, 08:55 AM
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That was 3 minutes I'll never get back. Welcome to the kill file.
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post #11 of 36 Old 07-20-2006, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twisted
That was 3 minutes I'll never get back. Welcome to the kill file.
Oh well.

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post #12 of 36 Old 07-20-2006, 10:42 AM
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>>That was 3 minutes I'll never get back. Welcome to the kill file.
This thread Look(ed) promising but yeesh, don't take stuff so personally.

This space for rent.
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post #13 of 36 Old 07-20-2006, 01:06 PM
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Space Cadet, thanks for the tip on the Record / Clear thing. That is the reason I don't want to record because I didn't want to have to go and clean it up. What does this mean: "MCE 2005 also chains the live buffer with programs recorded on that channel while live buffering was active." ? Does it mean that if I was watching 10 minutes of a show live, hit record and then when the show ends I will have all of it avalaible? If that is true it would be nice....

-Roger
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post #14 of 36 Old 07-20-2006, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rochurch
What does this mean: "MCE 2005 also chains the live buffer with programs recorded on that channel while live buffering was active." ?
MCE 2005 will not record its live buffer, mostly because the bitrate is significantly higher than that of any recorded content. What I mean is that if you're watching a channel live, and then a scheduled or a manual recording is initiated on that program, when the program ends and you're only using the live buffer, if the live buffering is within 30 minutes of the end of the recording, it will seamlessly act as if the live buffer encompasses the recorded program (e.g., if a one hour program was recorded and you're 20 minutes past the end of it, your live buffer is 1:20 instead of 0:20 or 0:30). I assume the same holds true for contiguously recorded programs, although I haven't tested it.
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post #15 of 36 Old 07-21-2006, 11:36 AM
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What, MCE 2005 cannot record its live buffer? What a shame.
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post #16 of 36 Old 07-26-2006, 06:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Developments since first post are BeyondTV4 webadmin sucks. Based on price, features, and design I think ReplayTV PCE is too expensive over the longterm even if it does provide all of the features possible. I am not a Linux user so MythTV is not a choice for me even though it looks really good. SageTV 5 seems excellent for only $80 but is missing parental control over imported media. GBPVR is great for being free and even if they charged up to $80 it would still be a good choice. Why would I go with MCE 2005 when SageTV and GBPVR exist?

I still need help. I have question marks on the spreadsheet included in HTPC files. The zip file is an xls spreadsheet.

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post #17 of 36 Old 07-26-2006, 06:22 PM - Thread Starter
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I was able to get the video playback to be as good as my ReplayTV 5040 with the same bitrate as a medium quality recording. They were settings I had to change on the computer (codec and such) and on the TV's brightness and picture.

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post #18 of 36 Old 07-27-2006, 12:09 AM
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Some of your speadsheet answers are wrong for GB-PVR.

1) Just enable the 'prompt for resume' setting
5) The yellow key on remote, Ctrl-Y on keyboard. Can be configured to someother key if need be.
8) The pause buffer on GB-PVR can be as long as your available hard disk space. Shows are automatically deleted a few minutes after you finish watching them, but the forward buffer can be as big as you want. As an example, press pause in the morning before you go to work, then press play when you get home...

Its also worth noting that many of these features you list are not a high priority to the developers of these products (for example, I developed GB-PVR, but could care less about CC), but instead you'll find a whole raft of other cool features which wont be available to you with products like ReplayTV, MCE etc. No DRM on recordings, cheap MVP clients, DVB-S/T/C support, Teletext and teletext subtitles, web interfaces for remote access, large amount of plugins available, real support that listens to users and actually response, etc...

Each of these apps is different and brings different features (and price) to the table. Weigh up which is best for you and go for it.
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post #19 of 36 Old 07-27-2006, 02:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Cool. I didn't even think you read this forum, sub. I am glad you do since I needed help making sure my data was correct.

1. I will set the prompt for resume.
2. I use a URC-8910 thanks to Rob Crowe so I will have to configure that.
8. I was comparing the buffer to a ReplayTV. This is not a big issue for me. I just brought it up since before you gave me the fix for not being able to delete failed recordings in GBPVR the channel would get stuck at the end of the show. Now it continues to buffer. I just noticed this today and I will update the spreadsheet with that also.

I admire greatly what you have been able to do. Especially since it was done by you alone when all the others are done by groups of people and at a price. Your support is unbelievable, on par with Rob Crowe, and without the amount of sarcasm and negativity that can be found in this forum. With that I would like to tell all the Replay people how happy I am both GBPVR and SageTV have STATUS BARS.

I do wish I could get the CC in the same style as regular TV CC. I am not deaf but I am hard of hearing. It runs in the family. I have 4 cousins who are deaf. If you were in the same situation you would understand and you wouldn't say "I could care less"so easily.

Any chance of a plugin that can see my ReplayTV recordings? I may sell my RTV 5040 anyway though. That way I can build a second HTPC. How would I have a second GBPVR see the the first GBPVR to schedule and view recordings? Right now I have coax and pyramids between 2 rooms to be able control my 2 ReplayTV's.

The only two apps that have any merit are yours, GBPVR which is shareware, and SageTV which is $80. It should be an easy decision for most people.

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post #20 of 36 Old 07-27-2006, 09:37 AM
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I just posted this in the SageTV forums:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvasco
I started this thread on AVSforum

After finally making and using an HTPC with GBPVR I can say it is missing a few features that maybe even BeyondTV, MythTV, SageTV, and MCE are missing. I will be updating this as I learn more about each software and their individual features and limitations. A spreadsheet will be in the works. Any large or small detail that can be provided will be appreciated. The number of asterisks indicate personal importance.

The following are a mix of features RTV 55xx has and what RTV PCE may have. Hopefully RTV PCE will have most of the RTV 55xx, except what has been stated it will not have.
1. Remembering last position in a show for resuming at later time. *****
Sage does this.

Quote:
2. Slow-motion playback ***
Sage has Pause/Step, but not slowmo.

Quote:
3. Notification that the software is going to start recording something ***
Sage asks if it can change the channel if:
You're watching "LiveTV"
and
You have no free tuners.

Quote:
4. Show|Navâ„¢: ***
To quote blade: "What is Show|Nav??"

Quote:
5. Previous/Last ****
Sage has this.

Quote:
6. Return to Live **
Main menu - Watch LiveTV (I think that does it, but never watching live TV myself, I'm not sure.

Quote:
7. Overlap Manager (this can actually be fixed in most HTPC software with a second tuner and using padding and conflict management) **
?? Sage has very advance conflict management/resolution.

Quote:
8. Very long buffer, even with show changes on same channel. **
Sage records shows, it does not have a buffer.

Quote:
9. Notification that show is buffered and data will be lost on a channel change. ****
Data isn't lost (immediately) on a channel change, an new Live recording is started.

Quote:
10. Predictable recording*** (Again, HTPC fix is to use multiple tuners and conflict management)
I don't have a clue what this is.

Quote:
12. Auto ComSkip
Sage has this through addons.

Quote:
Features RTV 55xx doesn't have and RTV PCE may not have and other HTPC software does.
1. Integrated free realtime remote web admin of recordings with the ability to cancel a recording (without plugins or 3rd party software, ie Wirns and DVArchive. my.replaytv.com is not realtime and is too slow) *****
See neilm's webserver.

Quote:
2. Integrated DVD player. *****
Sage has this.

Quote:
3. Save buffer to a recording. ***
Sage has this (though it's not a "buffer").

Quote:
4. Weather plugin ***
Sage has this.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do,
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post #21 of 36 Old 07-27-2006, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
I do wish I could get the CC in the same style as regular TV CC. I am not deaf but I am hard of hearing. It runs in the family. I have 4 cousins who are deaf. If you were in the same situation you would understand and you wouldn't say "I could care less"so easily.
Sorry, I was just being honest. Though I do think you've taken my comment the wrong way.

I do already appreciate the important role that captions provide. GB-PVR alread has full support for the teletext subtitles used in most parts of the worlds (incl New Zealand where I am located).

Developing this feature would be difficult and time consuming for me given I'm not in a country that uses your CC system. I can understand why you want it, but there are others things I'd rather spend my time on.
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post #22 of 36 Old 08-17-2006, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvasco
Why would I go with MCE 2005 when SageTV and GBPVR exist?
I'm not going to claim which of the numerous HTPC offerings is the best, as I haven't compared them. As for your off-hand dismissal of MCE, I have two observations. Cost: for many users, the software cost is free. If you don't have Windows (such as you're building a PC) and want a Windows PC, MCE is generally cheaper than XP Pro (and it is XP Pro), so you're getting the MCE features for free. If you buy a new PC, it will generally come with MCE software, so again the MCE (software) features are free. The other observation is that most of your criteria are not even filled out for MCE, so you don't even know what it does.

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Only when it needs to.
4. No. 29-second skip forward, 7-second skip back (durations can be changed).
5. Yes
6. Yes
7. Sophisticated, utilizing multiple tuners, other showings, priorities, and user selection. Not as good as it could be, but easily corrected.
8. 30 minutes; good-quality hacks are available to increase (at least 2 hours is viable). Personally, I see little value in long live buffers; I record everything I'm interested in.
9. No
10. Yes. Caption and subtitle display quality depends upon your MPEG-2 decoder. At least 4 companies have MCE-compatible MPEG-2 decoders (Vista MCE will ship with one, but I suspect that Microsoft will just license one of the existing ones).
11. Yes (via plugin), but I don't like the way that it's implemented. By the way, any application that uses ComSkip can use ShowAnalyzer instead; it's supposed to be better.
12. Yes
13. Yes (although remaining space calculations are laughably bad, you can correct for them).
14. Yes, several options.
15. Yes
16. No
17. Yes, several options.
18. MCE 2005 doesn't support this, but Vista itself does (for all apps), along with room correction, speaker/headphone virtualization, etc.
19. This is subjective. Is the MCE interface pretty? No. Is it functional? Very. Top-level menu has 3-entry most-recently-used mini-menus for each main menu entry. Up to four-character incremental searching is available on all single lists that have the focus, via remote numeric/alpha keys or keyboard. Multiple ways to get to most items. Mouse, keyboard, remote, hot-key, menus, popup menus, direct access, etc. Back button/key available everywhere, no matter how deep.
20. Yes

Your list is different from what I desire in an HTPC (or what's available). Here are other MCE features/capabilities:
Multiple tuners--MCE is a mixed bag in this respect, supporting two analog and two digital concurrently (plus FM tuner). Hacks to support more are available, but not very good. MCE scheduling takes advantage of shows that repeat within a short timeframe (only for series episodes), which is frequently equivalent to one, and sometimes two, extra tuner(s).
CableCARD support--Vista MCE will support (approved OEM computer required).
General multimedia support (Vista MCE will have a faster music database).
Multiple input sources--MCE is extremely weak in this area. Hardware and software solutions are available, but not very good.
Extender support.
Multiple Media Center PC support--files can be played on other XP and MCE computers. Shared recordings among multiple MCE computers, each with recording capability, is available but not officially supported, even in Vista.
Voice control (partner product)--direct function control, direct recording control, direct song/show access by title.
High-capacity CD/DVD changer/burner support (not as good as it could be, but better than most other HTPC software). (200 DVD MCE changer/burner is $400 as of the time of this post).
Automatic re-recording of other showings of shows that were not recorded due to a lack of disk space, or that experienced bad signals. (The Microbrains are so dumb--this works on series episodes, but not single recordings.)
Very high reliability. (Other than incorrect guide data, bad signals, or lack of disk space, I've only experienced three recording failures out of nearly two thousand recordings--two were news programs, one was a rerun).
Wide variety of plugins (other HTPC solutions also have this).
Sophisticated recording options. Fast, incremental show search.
Ability to alter recording settings (including selecting Do Not Record) for individual episodes of a series without impacting the series settings.
Selecting Record for a show which is part of a (user-defined) series will automatically apply the series recording defaults instead of the global recording defaults, no matter how the show is selected.
Unlimited history.
Reviews, cast info, related movies, other showings, etc.
Quick and useful guide access. Multiple-channel and single-channel views. Filters.
Automatically enters and resumes from Standby/Hibernate power-saving mode.
Internal disc burning (technically an add-on, but most OEM installations include) is very primitive. Vista MCE will include (hopefully, it will be improved).

MCE Home Page - see "Getting Started", "Beyond the Basics", and the FAQ (bottom of the page) for a fraction of MCE functionality and recording options. There are a lot more plugins on other sites.
MCE Recording Quality
MCE PC Overview
Optimizing Video Quality for MCE (download document) - great document, useful for any HTPC. This direct link is useful for those who don't have MCE and can't install the Media Center Diagnostic Kit, which contains this.
MCE Graphics Subsystem
MSDN - MCE

Except for bit-rate selection, MCE itself has nothing to do with video quality. That's completely determined by your hardware, drivers, settings, and MPEG-2 decoder. The Hauppauge boards use off-the-shelf components (just like ReplayTV hardware). The Hauppauge analog tuners are good (unlike the ReplayTV 5xxx series), but their comb filters are crap (like the ReplayTV 5xxx series). The nVidia DualTV is better, but the ATI Theater 650 Pro chipset (should be available in September '06) is much better. Like a ReplayTV, but unlike a cable box, MCE TV video always undergoes MPEG-2 compression, even when viewing live TV. As of the date of this edit, ATI Theater 650 Pro-based cards are starting to become available. ATI botched the digital TV support, and MCE may not support the digital tuner. The 650 chipset is so integrated that I don't know if it's even possible to put two of them on one card (leaving out the digital tuners).
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post #23 of 36 Old 08-17-2006, 07:00 PM
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You need to move to Redmond.
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post #24 of 36 Old 08-18-2006, 03:17 AM
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Originally Posted by slowbiscuit
You need to move to Redmond.
Thanks for your valuable contributions to this thread. Obviously, you didn't (or couldn't) read my post, since I mentioned numerous problems with MCE (and Microsoft programmers). Either you need to see an optometrist, or you need to take some remedial reading courses.
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post #25 of 36 Old 08-18-2006, 03:31 PM
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LOL. It's not just this thread, it's everything from you. Go ahead and apply, they need you.
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post #26 of 36 Old 08-18-2006, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
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SpaceCadet, I finally read your last post. Those are the type of posts I was looking for, unlike your first post in this thread. I only dismissed MCE due to the cost when someone already has WinXP.

20. Available in Spanish (Menus and all)

I still need to update my first post but I have been busy with projects and other things. That is one of the reasons I didn't completey fill out the MCE column. Once I figured which one had a minimum set of features and was the lowest priced I stayed with it. They are all good with BeyondTV being the least desirable and RTV PCE the most expensive.

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post #27 of 36 Old 08-18-2006, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit
It's not just this thread, it's everything from you.
I don't have a problem with people disagreeing with what I have to say. The world would be a dull place if there were no diversity of ideas. And I freely admit that sometimes (too often, actually) I post things while suffering from sleep deprivation, which is bad. But that's OK, some of you derive great pleasure from jumping all over me when I post something stupid, so I'm glad that I'm contributing to the happiness of other forum members. Sleep deprivation causes significantly more cognitive and memory impairment than drinking does (and no, I don't drink). And I apologize to those that I may have offended if I was in a bad mood and posted something too harsh; I try to go back and edit out such comments when I've had enough sleep and am thinking clearly.

I have a low tolerance for people who think that they have the right to attack me personally and try to intimidate me because I don't meet their standards for bashing organizations that they don't like. I'll bet that I'm older than you, and that I know a great deal more about the history of the computer industry and the negative roles that IBM, Intel, and Microsoft have played in it than you do, and that my life has been directly impacted by this more than yours. However, I don't see value in complaining in each of my posts about how Microsoft has set the computer industry back by a quarter of a century. I write about the world as it is, not some fantasy about how it would be if Unix were the only OS and Microsoft never existed. I try to give a balanced view about products that I review, and if you think that I haven't given what you perceive to be the correct balance, that's your right. If you want to post your own reviews based on your actual experiences with the same products, that's fine. Your personal attacks will have zero impact on what I say. Frankly, I find the constant personal attacks by various forum members on others to be dull and a waste of everyone's time.
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post #28 of 36 Old 08-18-2006, 06:03 PM
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20. Available in Spanish (Menus and all)
Yes, it did occur to me that this was what you meant; I was going to edit my post but you beat me to it. As far as I know, XP MCE supports all the hundreds(?) of languages that XP does. The correct word is "localization".

I apologize if I was too harsh initially; your first set of criteria didn't mention most of the things that HTPC users expect, such as multiple tuners, HD support, multimedia support, etc.
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post #29 of 36 Old 08-19-2006, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceCadet
Yes, it did occur to me that this was what you meant; I was going to edit my post but you beat me to it. As far as I know, XP MCE supports all the hundreds(?) of languages that XP does. The correct word is "localization".

I apologize if I was too harsh initially; your first set of criteria didn't mention most of the things that HTPC users expect, such as multiple tuners, HD support, multimedia support, etc.
You can call it what you want. GBPVR has a translation pack.

Apology accepted. However, my first post was about the differences not the whole package. Most support multiple tuners, HD, and multimedia, that I can recall. I don't have HD and I won't until I can get an HD satellite box with SD out for FAR (free after rebate). I don't have the money to pay for an equipment upgrade. I would have studied it up for other people and posted my findings if I had the time. I just don't have the time. What would be really helpful is if you or someone else posted an identical spreadsheet and screenshot of it with the missing data filled out, even adding more rows for the HD and so on. That would be very cool.

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post #30 of 36 Old 08-19-2006, 06:06 PM
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