Need a little networking help.... - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 01-01-2008, 05:37 AM - Thread Starter
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I am trying to connect a second 45xx replay to my Mom's network, and everything "appears" to be working except that I cannot stream between units. Here is a little info that may help someone assist with this issue...

1. Both units are 45xx
2. I hooked both units up to my own home network (4 replays), and it streams fine both ways from all units.
3. When on my Mom's network, both units "see" each other, and will display each other's Replay Guides.
4. When I try to stream a show from either one, I get a window stating that it is unable to play the show.
5. If I try to stream again, the Replay pauses, then reboots.
6. Neither have many shows in the Replay Guide (less than 10).
7. Both units will connect to the mothership for channel guide updates, etc.
8. Both units are set with a static IP.

The network is wired as follows:

Each Replay is connected to a single wall jack connection installed in each of the two rooms that run to another 2 port wall jack in the room where the router is located (Cat 5e), then from the single wall jack, 2 cat 5e cables connect to a Linksys Router (wrt54g), which is the network gateway device.

Both jack runs are wired identically.

Since they both connect to the mothership, I never suspected I would have a networking problem when adding the second replay. However, based on my limited network wiring experience, I am wondering if the networking cables that run from the wall jacks to each replay are 568B cables, should the cabling between each individual wall jack be wired as an A, B, or crossover? It is currently wired as a B also.

IE: Cable from each replay are B's, wiring between jacks are B, Cables from jack to router are B's.

Should the jacks be wired as crossovers, or A's?

The only other difference I can think of, but might really be a long shot, is that the zip codes are different between the two replay's at my Mom's house. This is due to one replay using a cable box and the other is not. Since the channel guide is correct in another city for her cable box, it is using a different zip. Could that do it?

Any other thoughts?

Getting to the age where the scalp is getting a little sparse and this issue is getting to the point of my starting to pull more out!

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

Jay
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post #2 of 16 Old 01-01-2008, 08:16 AM
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568A or 568B doesn't matter. So long as each ethernet cable run, be it a patch cable or a run inside a wall, is wired the same at both ends, it doesn't matter. Ultimately 568A and 568B all use the same four pins: 1, 2, 3 & 6 so you can plug a 568B patch cable into a 568A wall run and vice versa.

No, you do not need crossovers. Think about it. The RTVs _can_ see each other...

Different zipcodes won't have any effect on streaming, but they will have an effect on remote show scheduling/confict resolution.

Turn off DHCP in your router, or set up IP reservatoins for the two RTVs and then switch them over to DHCP.

Read more on the DHCP Bug HERE and HERE

Still no news from New Zealand.
If we ever get any, we'll be sure to let you know.
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post #3 of 16 Old 01-01-2008, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rm -rf *.* View Post

...Turn off DHCP in your router, or set up IP reservatoins for the two RTVs and then switch them over to DHCP.

Read more on the DHCP Bug HERE and HERE

[OPINION]

Too many folks rush to blame the DHCP Bug without even mentioning other options.

rm -rf *.* already pointed you to sfhub's two EXCELLENT write-ups, so, I would just like to emphasis the "1/2 Lease Time" qualfier for the renewal event. IIRC, maximum Lease Time on a Linksys Router is 7 days - that gives you 3 1/2 days to test before the bug can appear.

Also, the stock firmware in a Linksys WRT54G doesn't support MAC-to-IP associations. You need to GOOGLE "DD-WRT" and/or "Tomato" for that option.

[/OPINION]

Quote:
Originally Posted by grover517 View Post

...
3. When on my Mom's network, both units "see" each other, and will display each other's Replay Guides.
4. When I try to stream a show from either one, I get a window stating that it is unable to play the show.
5. If I try to stream again, the Replay pauses, then reboots...

I have personally experienced #3 & 4 on my LAN. Possible suspects are:
  • Bad cable
  • Bad jack (in your situation)
  • Bad port on router/switch (one of my situations)
  • "Unfriendly" uPnP device on your LAN 'clobbering' the ReplayTV communications (another of my situations)
Quote:
Originally Posted by grover517 View Post

...The network is wired as follows:

Each Replay is connected to a single wall jack connection installed in each of the two rooms that run to another 2 port wall jack in the room where the router is located (Cat 5e), then from the single wall jack, 2 cat 5e cables connect to a Linksys Router (wrt54g), which is the network gateway device...

I'm in the same boat as rm -rf *.* regarding "ReplayTV Memory", though. I want to suggest setting both ReplayTVs to "Manual IP" and then connecting a crossover cable between the 2 jacks in the "Router Room". I 'think' that I remember reading this was possible (networking without a router).

Since everything works in your house, but not in Mom's, it's simply a matter of substitution. I'd suggest temporarily putting the ReplayTVs in the same room with the router, connecting with some new/different short cables (doesn't everyone have a JunkBox full of 6' cables?) and inserting a switch after the WRT54G. Also, disable uPnP in the WRT54G - it's not needed for ReplayTVs.

Good Luck and please keep everyone updated with your progress.

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post #4 of 16 Old 01-01-2008, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ClearToLand View Post

[OPINION]

Too many folks rush to blame the DHCP Bug without even mentioning other options.

Who said I'm blaming the DHCP bug?

But until you can tell me that it's been positively eliminated from "your" network, don't ask me about other solutions.

It's just proactive trobleshooting.

Still no news from New Zealand.
If we ever get any, we'll be sure to let you know.
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post #5 of 16 Old 01-02-2008, 04:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replies!! Much appreciated.

Dang, it's been so long since I had to mess with anything replay related (other than hd replacements) that I had completely forgotten about the DHCP bug. So, I did discover that I was remiss in turning of DHCP on the router after setting up the second replay. So I did that now, then rebooted both replay's (with static IP's assigned), but that didn't resolve it.

I don't setup or use DHCP unless I absolutely have to (such as setting up the replay for the first time), so both her computers as well as both Replay's are all static IP's on the same subnet.

I haven't had a chance to get back over there, but my next trip will be to perform the following:

re-check all jack wiring (borrowing a tester from a co-worker).

reboot the router to clear any pre-existing mac/ip dhcp data

take two 50' network cables and direct connect both replay's to the router to determine if one or both of the jack runs are the culprits (so I don't have to move them). Glad she has a smaller house!!

take an extra switch with me to see if that helps. The only catch to this theory is that when testing her replay's on my network (on the kitchen table), each one (one at a time) were connected directly into my router (same as hers) and worked fine between her's and all of mine. Although, all of "my" replays are behind switches before the router.

Will let you all know what I find out. Thanks again!
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post #6 of 16 Old 01-02-2008, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Update.........

re-check all jack wiring (borrowing a tester from a co-worker).

wiring checked out ok! Whew!

reboot the router to clear any pre-existing mac/ip dhcp data

Still didn't work

take two 50' network cables and direct connect both replay's to the router to determine if one or both of the jack runs are the culprits (so I don't have to move them). Glad she has a smaller house!!

Still no glory

take an extra switch with me to see if that helps.

Eureka! Don't know why it wouldn't work within the router since it is supposed to have a switching capability in it (isn't it?), but after putting a switch between the wall jack and the router, it now works as expected!

Really appreciate the assistance!!!

Jay
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post #7 of 16 Old 01-02-2008, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grover517 View Post

...take an extra switch with me to see if that helps.

Eureka! Don't know why it wouldn't work within the router since it is supposed to have a switching capability in it (isn't it?), but after putting a switch between the wall jack and the router, it now works as expected!

The WRT54G *DOES* contain a 4-port switch - but, your's appears to be BROKEN. Is it still within the warranty period?

Did you try all combinations of all 4 ports with just the ReplayTVs? (What's that called? 4 factorial? 4x3x2x1=24 combinations? Who remembers their math? )

The solution to my "#3 & 4" problem was a bad port on a Linksys EZXS55W (5-port switch). Although the LED on the front cover was off, the port was BLASTING out a continuous stream of garbage (haven't hooked up any 'sniffer' yet to see what). I didn't notice it right away because I had temporarily swapped out my Linksys WRT54G for a Buffalo WHR-G125 while I was installing DD-WRT on the WRT54G and the G125 has it's activity LEDs on the back (). Daily updates and ReplayTV Guides worked fine but as soon as I attempted to stream - BAM!

Quote:
Originally Posted by grover517 View Post

...Dang, it's been so long since I had to mess with anything replay related (other than hd replacements) that I had completely forgotten about the DHCP bug...

You know what they say - your MEMORY is the second thing to go! Wait until you hit the "2nd Half Century" mark!

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post #8 of 16 Old 01-02-2008, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rm -rf *.* View Post

568A or 568B doesn't matter... ...Ultimately 568A and 568B all use the same four pins: 1, 2, 3 & 6 so you can plug a 568B patch cable into a 568A wall run and vice versa.

I did a GOOGLE and glanced at the difference between 568A and 568B - colors!

Do It Yourself: Roll Your Own Network Cables
  • Pair
  • Lone striped
  • Pair
  • Lone solid
  • Pair
Mechanically there's no difference. Do you happen to know the story behind it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rm -rf *.* View Post

Who said I'm blaming the DHCP bug?

IMO, that was the bulk of your reply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rm -rf *.* View Post

...But until you can tell me that it's been positively eliminated from "your" network, don't ask me about other solutions...

So difficult to convey in text without hurting feelings - and not solely directed to you - I hate reading "dribs-and-drabs" troubleshooting help. You've been providing many knowledgeable replies since your return to the forum. But, besides being a "sore spot" for me, blaming (or just solely listing/highlighting/emphasizing) the DHCP Bug wasn't fair to the OP, IMO. Unless his WRT54G Lease Time was miniscule, the DHCP Bug couldn't have even been involved in his recent troubleshooting attempts.

I prefer longer replies - which is why I assembled so many FAQs across the various forums when I was learning the ins-and-outs of ReplayTV a few years ago. Again IMHO, for many folks visiting forums is similar to reading a magazine in the doctor's office - something they do to kill time, take a break, etc... Myself, I take it too damn seriously - I spend/spent too much time trying to help to the point where I come off as a "Know-It-All", which is certainly not my intention.

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post #9 of 16 Old 01-02-2008, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearToLand View Post

I did a GOOGLE and glanced at the difference between 568A and 568B - colors!
(...)
Mechanically there's no difference.

While it is true that the pinout is the same for both standards, it's a little bit more than that. The different color pairs have a different rate of twist and therefore, different lengths. Thats why certain colors are paired so as to keep the lengths similar. There are also some field properties that come into play with the rate of twist, but are largely irrelivant at the lower frequencies/speeds utilized by 100TX.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearToLand View Post

Do you happen to know the story behind it?

AT&T. Phone system compatability with the old G2 & G3 frames IIRC.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearToLand View Post

So difficult to convey in text without hurting feelings - and not solely directed to you - I hate reading "dribs-and-drabs" troubleshooting help. You've been providing many knowledgeable replies since your return to the forum. But, besides being a "sore spot" for me, blaming (or just solely listing/highlighting/emphasizing) the DHCP Bug wasn't fair to the OP, IMO. Unless his WRT54G Lease Time was miniscule, the DHCP Bug couldn't have even been involved in his recent troubleshooting attempts.

I already stated my reasons as to why I made the statements I did. I'm sorry you don't seem to approve of my troubleshooting methods.

And, as it turns out, my point about the DHCP bug ended up being something noteworthy, even if not related to the issue at hand. So *thippppppppppit* :-)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearToLand View Post

I prefer longer replies - which is why I assembled so many FAQs across the various forums when I was learning the ins-and-outs of ReplayTV a few years ago. Again IMHO, for many folks visiting forums is similar to reading a magazine in the doctor's office - something they do to kill time, take a break, etc... Myself, I take it too damn seriously - I spend/spent too much time trying to help to the point where I come off as a "Know-It-All", which is certainly not my intention.

If everyone posted the same way, this place wouldn't be any fun. We could just take turns manning the "(AVS) Forum helpdesk".

Longer replies are great. Too bad most people's heads azzplode when they read them.

FAQ's are great, I love FAQs, they give people one more sticky to ignore which in turn gives us one more thing to rollup like a newspaper and whack the noobs on the nose with.

Still no news from New Zealand.
If we ever get any, we'll be sure to let you know.
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post #10 of 16 Old 01-02-2008, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rm -rf *.* View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearToLand View Post

I did a GOOGLE and glanced at the difference between 568A and 568B - colors!
(...)
Mechanically there's no difference.

While it is true that the pinout is the same for both standards, it's a little bit more than that. The different color pairs have a different rate of twist and therefore, different lengths. Thats why certain colors are paired so as to keep the lengths similar. There are also some field properties that come into play with the rate of twist, but are largely irrelivant at the lower frequencies/speeds utilized by 100TX.

Also, A and B are MDI and MDIX (NOT respectively). That is, each is the pinout for each type connection. So an older switch which isn't auto MDI/MIDX might have a pair of connectors on one port and one would use the A connection and the other would use the B connection. In addition, a cross over cable uses the A wiring on one end and the B wiring on the other. So, you might could say that one of the two is for going to an Ethernet card and the other one is for going to a switch or hub. If you were to wire your wall plate for specifically hooking up a cross over cable or the daisy chain port of a switch, then you would hook it up with the B pinout instead of the A pinout, for example. I think a way you might find out whether A or B is the "normal" pinout would be to look at an Ethernet cable and check the wire colors. But, whose to say whether an Ethernet cable if for hooking up from an Ethernet card to a port or from port to port? As RM says, the twists are slightly different, so I think one of the two might be better, but quite honestly, one end's TX is the other end's RX, so if it wasn't for trying to make sure that the twists didn't line up, you'd want them twisted the same amount, anyways...

Henry
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post #11 of 16 Old 01-03-2008, 06:20 AM - Thread Starter
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The WRT54G *DOES* contain a 4-port switch - but, your's appears to be BROKEN. Is it still within the warranty period?

Unfortunately, No it's not. It's a "hand me down" from me when I rebuilt my own network a while back. The wireless part puked out (which I need but she doesn't) but the rest worked fine on my network, so it found it's new home when I set her's up the first time.

What suprised me is that that router already had 2 computers (one regular use, one dvarchive server) and a replay already connected to it without issues. Was able to stream between DVArchive server and first Replay just fine, as well as download shows to the server.

The issue only showed itself once I added the second replay, which made me suspect the wiring, but after seeing the solution, makes me lean towards a bad port on the router.

When I added the switch, I took the cable that was connected to one of the pc's and plugged it into the uplink port on the switch, then connected everything else directly to the switch so that now, the only connection to the router is the uplink cable.

If I run into further issues, I will just replace the router and call it a day since it appears that this one may be dying a slow death with first the wireless going out, and now most likely a port or more.

Quote:


You know what they say - your MEMORY is the second thing to go! Wait until you hit the "2nd Half Century" mark!

Already over the 50 mark! However, in my case it appears that the "MEMORY" is going faster than the rest! I just call them "Blonde Moments" and leave it at that!

Thanks again!
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post #12 of 16 Old 01-07-2008, 09:58 AM
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You may want to check the clocks on the two replays. If the time differs by more that 40 seconds between the two machines, streaming fails but everything else works. DVarchive is able to detect and compensate for the time drift, so DVarchive may work (and stream) even though the two replaces cannot stream to each other.

If the two replay clocks are close to the magic 40-second difference, they may stream sometimes and at other times not. The problem will appear to be intermittent, depending on which clock is drifting more that day.

Check the time by either:
A. Click on each replay in DVarchive; the display will tell you if that replay's clock is in synch with the DVarchive PC.
B. On each replay, 243-zones, option 3 (toggle clock display) then compare with known correct clock.

If the replay clock is off, check its network DNS setting. The DNS servers have to work for clock-setting. The guide will download even when DNS is faulty.
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post #13 of 16 Old 01-07-2008, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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You may want to check the clocks on the two replays.

That was one of the first things I checked. According to DVA, they were 1 second difference. Don't they set/reset the clocks everytime you force a net connect either thru setup or the CFP? I did manual connects numerous times between the two prior to posting, as well as checked in DVA.

But thanks for the thought!
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post #14 of 16 Old 01-07-2008, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by grover517 View Post

Don't they set/reset the clocks everytime you force a net connect either thru setup or the CFP?

Yes.

Still no news from New Zealand.
If we ever get any, we'll be sure to let you know.
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post #15 of 16 Old 01-09-2008, 12:51 AM
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Quote:


Originally Posted by grover517
Don't they set/reset the clocks everytime you force a net connect either thru setup or the CFP?

A net connect is supposed to set the clock. However, if the DNS IP address settings on the Replay are faulty, the clock will not be set even though the net connect dialogue says "setting the clock." The guide information will still be updated, though.

I recently recovered from such an error; TWC switched to Comcast in the Houston area and at some point Comcast abandoned the old TWC DNS servers. Unbeknownst to me, my replays' clocks were not being set for months. Eventually the drift amounted to 40 seconds and streaming started failing; at first intermittently and finally constant.

The lesson I learned here is that frequent net connects do not rule out a clock problem.
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post #16 of 16 Old 01-11-2008, 05:39 AM - Thread Starter
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However, if the DNS IP address settings on the Replay are faulty, the clock will not be set even though the net connect dialogue says "setting the clock." The guide information will still be updated, though.

I set all my replays to use the gateway router as my default DNS server, and a public DNS server as the backup. Have never had a DNS related issue since, unless of course my router acts up or Comcrap has cable service issues, of which I usually figure out by rebooting the router.

I just refer to those little pains as the "Gates Syndrome". When in doubt, reboot!
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