Surge Protector recommendations - Page 26 - AVS Forum
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post #751 of 774 Old 02-23-2013, 11:03 PM
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Clearly I don't know much. I just want to protect my system. Can you point me in the right direction? I'd really appreciate it - thanks
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post #752 of 774 Old 02-25-2013, 09:23 AM
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Install a surge protection device at the service entrance, e.g. Eaton CHSPT2ULTRA.

If you have telephone and cable, buy the 3-pack, CHSPT23PACK.

After that, I suggest a Type 2 point-of-use SPD, e.g. Tripplite Isobar device.



http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-ISOBAR6ULTRA-Isobar-Protector/dp/B0000513US

The electrician can help pick out the service entrance SPD for you, and buy it wholesale, at your local electric supply store.

Eaton has some good info on their website. Click 'Documentation'.

http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/ProductsServices/Electrical/ProductsandServices/Residential/SurgeProtection/CompleteHome/index.htm
http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/ProductsServices/Electrical/ProductsandServices/PowerQualityandMonitoring/SurgeProtectiveDevices/LightCommercial/index.htm#tabs-2

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post #753 of 774 Old 03-03-2013, 11:10 AM
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Thanks. I appreciate it..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neurorad View Post

Install a surge protection device at the service entrance, e.g. Eaton CHSPT2ULTRA.

If you have telephone and cable, buy the 3-pack, CHSPT23PACK.

After that, I suggest a Type 2 point-of-use SPD, e.g. Tripplite Isobar device.



http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-ISOBAR6ULTRA-Isobar-Protector/dp/B0000513US

The electrician can help pick out the service entrance SPD for you, and buy it wholesale, at your local electric supply store.

Eaton has some good info on their website. Click 'Documentation'.

http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/ProductsServices/Electrical/ProductsandServices/Residential/SurgeProtection/CompleteHome/index.htm
http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/ProductsServices/Electrical/ProductsandServices/PowerQualityandMonitoring/SurgeProtectiveDevices/LightCommercial/index.htm#tabs-2
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post #754 of 774 Old 03-05-2013, 05:19 AM
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Guys, it appears my belkin pf31 has taken a dump on me. The switched power is going off numerous times every week. About two weeks ago the entire surge protector was shut down. It wouldn't reset but after unplugging it for awhile it mysteriously powered back up. Since that time the switched power has been tripped off five times...almost everytime I use it. Weirdly the last three days it is working perfectly again.

But I think it may be time for a new protector.

Since we live in an area still being built I would like something with the ability to stabalize voltage.

I normally steer clear of monster products but do have a hookup and can get them basically half off retail.

However I am open to other suggestions and would like to spend $200-$250 less is good as long as it does the job.
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post #755 of 774 Old 03-05-2013, 07:39 AM
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^^^

Haven't looked for a while, but I think you're going to be hard pressed to find something (new, anyway) with real voltage regulation for that price range.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #756 of 774 Old 03-05-2013, 08:28 AM
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You could be right. What would you suggest in that price range then?
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post #757 of 774 Old 03-05-2013, 01:25 PM
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I would suggest nothing but an SPD (e.g. Tripplite Isobar) at the equipment, and a whole-house SPD. Your equipment is designed to withstand surges up to ~700V.

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post #758 of 774 Old 03-08-2013, 12:41 PM
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The whole-house surge protector uses the house ground, and it is located at the service entrance, where power comes into the house.

I don't know how to accurately measure the effectiveness of the whole-house ground.

I don't know if a ground is required for a series mode SPD, but it is required for MOV-based SPDs. Call SurgeX.

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post #759 of 774 Old 03-08-2013, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkphader View Post

I'm in an older house and the outlets have no real ground. Some of them have a NEMA 5-15R receptacle but a tester shows an open ground. Is this of real concern to my AV and/or computer gear...
It is a safety and code issue. If there is no ground, you need to install either 2-prong receptacles or GFCI receptacles with the label "no ground present". The ground is intended to provide a low impedance path so that the breaker in the panel will trip on a fault condition.
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...how can I verify there is an effective path to earth ground?
You can hire an electrician to test the grounding electrode resistance with a megger. Electrical code almost everywhere in USA requires max of 25 ohms. Over that and a second electrode is required.

FWIW surges do not magically disappear into ground. You want a low impedance ground to allow surges such as lightning to return by their normal path, which is the ground. Other surges will return via the electrical service.
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Does the open ground on my receptacles nullify the effectiveness of the whole house surge protector?
What you see at the receptacle is irrelevant to the function of a whole-house device. The quality of the ground at the service entrance is what is important.
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Does the open ground nullify the effectiveness of both MOV type and series mode surge protectors at point of use?
Won't affect a single mode surge protective device, either MOV or series mode. With a 3-mode MOV-based device, you will lose 2 of the modes. You will still have L-N protection, which is what the inventor of series mode protection recommends.
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post #760 of 774 Old 12-25-2013, 12:03 AM
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HI, I have question, I recently upgraded my system to a Sony 55' XBR 4K, a OPPO BDP-105, a sony str1058 receiver  and a Bose speaker and a HD satellite  box. I  also have 25kw whole 

   house generator w/ auto start. I am looking for a good surge protector and also clean up the the voltage.  I read about a brand called Panamax, would that be good or would I need

   something else. Thanks, answers are welcomed. DAVID.

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post #761 of 774 Old 12-25-2013, 06:07 AM
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I recently ordered the furman pst-8d. You can read the marketing for yourself on their website, but the quality of construction is very good. I had some buzz in my compression drivers and after plugging everything into this unit that went away. I am sure it was a ground loop issue, that this may coincide with all being on the same ground, but it worked well. It also uses series protection which from what I understand is better than most.

I ordered a tripplite isobar, and while it was nice looking, I sent it back because in the instructions it says that in the event of a surge it would leave the equipment plugged into it unprotected!

I got mine from amazon

http://www.amazon.com/Furman-Advanced-Conditioning-Aluminum-Protection/dp/B0009GI7NC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1387980297&sr=8-1&keywords=Furman+pst+8d

Overall looking AT&T he ratings, etc. I came to the conclusion that it was hard to beat this unit for the price, and I know furman is a reputable company and I believe that they are now owned by panamax. In fact, I ended up buying three of these.

Good luck, and let us know what you come up with!
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post #762 of 774 Old 12-25-2013, 06:58 AM
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I picked up a new SurgeX SX1120RT on eBay for around $150, added a T-Blade adapter about a year ago and everything has been fine. If you have NEMA 5-20 receptacles you wont need the adapter.

EDIT: just to add that I use one of my Oppo 105's USB connections to switch the SurgeX on/off remotely. Turn on the Oppo and power is applied to all of the other gear in the switched outlets.
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post #763 of 774 Old 12-25-2013, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btinindy View Post

It also uses series protection which from what I understand is better than most.
Well, it is another approach to surge protection. And the manufacturers claim certain technical advantages. That doesn't mean you cannot achieve adequate protection using MOV based devices.
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... tripplite isobar...in the instructions it says that in the event of a surge it would leave the equipment plugged into it unprotected!
BS. The instructions say nothing like that. Yes, if the "Protected" light goes out, it means you have lost some or all of the protection. And yes, it continues to power your gear even after loss of protection. However, MOVs are not sacrificial devices. A properly sized MOV will not fail after a single surge and will continue to provide protection for many, many years. The amount of energy a surge can present to this type of device is inherently limited by the impedance of the wiring between the device and the panel, no more than about 90J. And the MOVs in the Isobar are capable of handling many times this energy.
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post #764 of 774 Old 12-25-2013, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm View Post

Well, it is another approach to surge protection. And the manufacturers claim certain technical advantages. That doesn't mean you cannot achieve adequate protection using MOV based devices.

Ummm, yeah I never claimed you couldn't, but thanks for that.

BS. The instructions say nothing like that. Yes, if the "Protected" light goes out, it means you have lost some or all of the protection. And yes, it continues to power your gear even after loss of protection. However, MOVs are not sacrificial devices. A properly sized MOV will not fail after a single surge and will continue to provide protection for many, many years. The amount of energy a surge can present to this type of device is inherently limited by the impedance of the wiring between the device and the panel, no more than about 90J. And the MOVs in the Isobar are capable of handling many times this energy.

BS to your BS. You should research before you respond. Manual link here:

http://www.tripplite.com/shared/techdoc/Owners-Manual/932919.pdf

says at the top. That coupled with Tripplite's customer service, or lack there of when I had a problem, made it easy to send back. Luckily it was all through Amazon, so it was not problem.
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post #765 of 774 Old 12-25-2013, 01:55 PM
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OOH! Snappy reply!

Would you please quote where it says in the event of a surge it will leave the equipment plugged into it unprotected? I don't see it. It says just what I said in my third and fourth sentences on the subject.

Perhaps you should stop making assumptions about what research others do and stick to the facts, once you find out what they are.
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post #766 of 774 Old 12-25-2013, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm View Post

OOH! Snappy reply!

Would you please quote where it says in the event of a surge it will leave the equipment plugged into it unprotected? I don't see it. It says just what I said in my third and fourth sentences on the subject.

Perhaps you should stop making assumptions about what research others do and stick to the facts, once you find out what they are.

Wow, I gave the link and you still did not look. Impressive.

"All models feature an internal protection that will disconnect the surge-protective component at the end of its useful life but will maintain power to the load—now unprotected."
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post #767 of 774 Old 12-27-2013, 04:52 PM
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Thank you for confirming my assertion that the instructions don't say anything like "...in the event of a surge it would leave the equipment plugged into it unprotected". If you don't understand the difference between what you said and what the instructions say, go back and reread my initial response after you have calmed down a bit. If you still don't understand, any further communication with you is pointless.
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post #768 of 774 Old 12-27-2013, 05:40 PM
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I am perfectly calm. In my assertion the Tripplite is an inferior product. "At the end of its useful life" is a meaningless statement since I would never know when that is. And a surge protector should never say in its manual that it will leave the equipment plugged into it unprotected.

I am trying to contribute to the OP's question, unlike anything you have offered so far. In my quest for the best product at the best value, I have offered what I have found.

OK?

Don't feel compelled by your digital courage to be such a tough guy.
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post #769 of 774 Old 12-27-2013, 07:07 PM
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Tough guy? I am a pussy cat! You sure make a lot of unfounded assertions...

The problem with your initial statement, and the reason I responded, is that it would lead an uninformed reader to believe that a MOV-based surge protective device sacrifices itself to protect the gear against the first surge it encounters and then leaves the connected gear unprotected. This is not true, for the reasons I have already explained. FWIW, although I currently use a whole-house approach to surge protection (MOV-based) for my house, I do happen to have a couple of Isobar Ultras that are on the order of 15 years old and going strong. Of course, I guess it could be because they have never experienced a surge in 15 years...

As to your particular choice of protection, I have no comment whatsoever. There is more than one effective approach to surge protection. And if you want to spend you money that way, it is your choice.

I have a question for you. What happens when the MOVs or capacitors in your unit fail? Does it continue to provide power to connected devices, or does it disconnect from the line? I know that it disconnects on a sustained over-voltage situation, but what does it do when components fail.
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post #770 of 774 Old 12-28-2013, 08:19 AM
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Incorrect. I asserted that the Tripplite says blatantly that at some point it will leave equipment plugged into it unprotected.

I also have a whole house protector for the incoming services to my house including two power panels and cable. Let me ask you this, if your whole house protection manual said that at some point your panel would be unprotected, would you install that product? At least most whole house products have a visual indicator of when they are no longer functional. I was going to ask tripplite if this was the case with their point of use units as well but as I indicate below, they never responded.

I wanted to also add some point of use protection to supplement and protect against any internal spikes, surges etc and overall help me sleep better at night when storms are coming through. A surge protector IMO should be something that I plug in and never think about again.

I narrowed down the search to three candidates: Tripplite HT10DBS, Panamax M8 AV Pro and the Furman PST8D.

Mini review- Tripplite seemed very solid, but did not work out of the box. Would come on, but as soon as something was plugged into it, it would trip off. Sent emails to tripplite with no responses. Before sending it back,I read the manual as I often do for whatever I buy, and saw in its own literature that at some point whatever was plugged into this unit would not be protected. Seems like a bad design for a "Surge Protector". Was going to exchange but after reading this just wanted a refund. Turns out this is in several other tripplite manuals.

Panamax M8AVPro. This exceeded my budget and when it arrived its configuration and plastic case were a no go for me. I have seen several plastic electrical cases melt and did not want this tucked away somewhere. By configuration, I mean the way that the plugs were organized on the top and side. Took up too much footprint. It was very appealing that it had an internal 12v trigger for certain outlets, but I just ended up making my own with a solid state relay...in a metal box.

Furman PST8D- most solid of the bunch as far as quality of construction, IMO. After reading the Tripplite manual, I also wondered if this product was in the same boat. I emailed them and received a response within a few minutes referencing this white paper : http://www.furmansound.com/pdf/pdfdata/FurmanSMPPlusWhitePaper.pdf

It may be marketing but I believe that they are a reputable company and have some obvious research and knowledge behind some of these claims. Nowhere does it claim that at some point it will leave anything that I have plugged into it unprotected. As stated above, I don't want to think about these units after I plug them in.

All of the ratings for the above units were similar, so that was not a factor really, and as I said above they will all live behind the whole house protection.

At least tripplite is honest in their manual. Nowhere else was this listed or advertised, so I thought I would bring it to the OP's attention.

Looks like the OP has moved on, so I probably will too. To each their own, and it seems you are a fan of tripplite with no hint of problems and that is good. I had high hopes for the tripplite largely because it was the least costly of the three and seemed like a high quality unit. Perhaps you never read the manual or just put blind trust into their products.
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post #771 of 774 Old 12-28-2013, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btinindy View Post

Let me ask you this, if your whole house protection manual said that at some point your panel would be unprotected, would you install that product?
Yes, because this is a fact of life with MOV-based surge protective devices.
Quote:
At least most whole house products have a visual indicator of when they are no longer functional.
So does the Isobar. Too bad you were unable to confirm it.
Quote:
I wanted to also add some point of use protection to supplement and protect against any internal spikes...
Internally generated transients are pretty much a non-issue in residences. They are typically small enough that just about all electronic devices are inherently protected against them. Considering you have a whole-house system, the only potential problem might be if you had sensitive gear on the same circuit as a big motor, say on the same circuit as a room air conditioner. But if it makes you sleep better, go for it.
Quote:
A surge protector IMO should be something that I plug in and never think about again.
That would be nice, but is not the case. However, a well designed surge protective device will last for many, many years.
Quote:
...it seems you are a fan of tripplite...
I am not a fan of any particular manufacturer or product. I just use what works adequately for my needs at a reasonable price. I my case, I bought two used Isobars for $10 a piece because the price was right, I liked the metal case, and they had MOVs of adequate size to last a long time.
Quote:
Perhaps you never read the manual or just put blind trust into their products.
I read the manual long before you even thought of buying, and I re-read it before I asked you for the quote. I would never put blind trust in any surge protective device. I always research thoroughly before I buy.
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post #772 of 774 Old 01-10-2014, 09:16 AM
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So a tripp lite isobar is not enough? You really need a whole house protector? Is the isobar basically pointless without it?

Also does the isobar condition the power and also eliminate line noise as well?

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post #773 of 774 Old 01-10-2014, 01:18 PM
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Many folks here believe the best approach is to start with a whole-house system. For one thing, done right, it ensures that all conductive paths into the premise are protected. That doesn't mean that point-of-use devices don't work.

The Isobar line of point-of-use devices is one of the better ones IMHO. The MOVs in them are large enough to last a very long time.
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post #774 of 774 Old 03-12-2014, 02:11 PM
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