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post #1 of 774 Old 08-17-2009, 08:00 PM - Thread Starter
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I am a relatively simple system. 60" Pioneer Elite Signature 141 plasma monitor. Pioneer Elite SC-07 receiver. Panasonic BD60 BD player. And soon a HD digital cable box. Might add a PS3 & X360. That's about it HT wise.

And a SVS PC13 Ultra sub. Which is located too far from the bulk of my gear (above mentioned) to share the same surge protector. So I might need a 2nd simple one. Just for the sub. The sub is almost 21 feet away (if you measure along the walls..where the wall meets the floor).

But will add as well a modem/router for internet and BD-Live.

What surge protectors would you recommend to more than adequately protect my investments? I know Panamax is good. I"m just not familiar with the important specs.

Thanks.
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post #2 of 774 Old 08-18-2009, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDD888 View Post

I am a relatively simple system. 60" Pioneer Elite Signature 141 plasma monitor. Pioneer Elite SC-07 receiver. Panasonic BD60 BD player. And soon a HD digital cable box. Might add a PS3 & X360. That's about it HT wise.

And a SVS PC13 Ultra sub. Which is located too far from the bulk of my gear (above mentioned) to share the same surge protector. So I might need a 2nd simple one. Just for the sub. The sub is almost 21 feet away (if you measure along the walls..where the wall meets the floor).

But will add as well a modem/router for internet and BD-Live.

What surge protectors would you recommend to more than adequately protect my investments? I know Panamax is good. I"m just not familiar with the important specs.

Thanks.

Install a (whole house) unit at your main panel and then a strip at your AV gear location for the best protection.

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post #3 of 774 Old 08-18-2009, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
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AV Doogie,

Any specific recommendations? How much would a "whole home surge protector" run me?

I also read on one of the forums here that surge protectors are a "myth". That they actually won't stop power surges. Only the "tiny ones". So I'm also now debating if I should bother. Will it even help? I don't know now.
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post #4 of 774 Old 08-19-2009, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDD888 View Post

AV Doogie,

Any specific recommendations? How much would a "whole home surge protector" run me?

I also read on one of the forums here that surge protectors are a "myth". That they actually won't stop power surges. Only the "tiny ones". So I'm also now debating if I should bother. Will it even help? I don't know now.

Surge suppression is not a myth....

Unfortunately, many folks who do not understand the underlying principles and application of suppression equipment are the ones who are the loudest opponents.

A surge suppressor, like any other product designed and built by 'mankind', has limitations. It is up to you to decide what kind of expense and potential damage to equipment you are willing to accept.

Surge suppression, properly sized and installed, will provide protection from everyday overvoltage conditions which are a normal part of the power system. They will also provide protection from most lightning events except for some direct strikes....which are not common.

I recommend IT products which are now owned by Eaton corporation. If you need additional help finding recommendations let me know.

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post #5 of 774 Old 08-19-2009, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
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AV Doogie,

Can you give specific recommendations? For both whole home and power bar type. Not sure I want to go to the expense of a whole home system. Then again I have no idea how much they cost. What is the brand to buy..etc.

Would a Panamax not suffice?
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post #6 of 774 Old 08-28-2009, 01:19 PM
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I am pretty happy with the APC AV H15BLK.

It is probably overkill for your needs, but I like when it raises power when my central AC kicks in.
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post #7 of 774 Old 08-28-2009, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDD888 View Post

AV Doogie,

Can you give specific recommendations? For both whole home and power bar type. Not sure I want to go to the expense of a whole home system. Then again I have no idea how much they cost. What is the brand to buy..etc.

Would a Panamax not suffice?

I use an IT XT40 unit for whole house protection. This is a higher end unit typically about 400 bucks.

IT also has other units which provide good suppression like the CHSPULTRA or CHSPMAX




* 2,880 Joules (total) or 2,400 Joules
* 180,000 Amps (maximum surge current) or 150,000 Amps
* 90,000 Amps per phase (L-N & L-G) or 75,000 Amps per phase
* 400 V UL 1449 2nd ddition clamping voltage (maximum surge current)
* <1 Nanosecond response time
* 120/240 Vac rated line voltage
* 50/60 Hz frequency range

Warranty: $75,000*

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post #8 of 774 Old 08-28-2009, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper1lt View Post

I am pretty happy with the APC AV H15BLK.

It is probably overkill for your needs, but I like when it raises power when my central AC kicks in.

I assume you are indicating that the unit regulates the voltage level. You will know if you are happy with the unit when it takes a hit from a decent surge, if the unit still works and you have saved your equipment downstream.

I would still install a unit at the main panel to protect yourself. You don't want to sacrifice this nice looking voltage regulator in the event of a large surge....do you?

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post #9 of 774 Old 09-02-2009, 07:35 AM
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AV Doogie,

The H15 has the following:

Surge Protection and Filtering Surge energy rating 5270 Joules
EMI/RFI Noise rejection (100 kHz to 10 MHz) 50 dB
Peak Current Normal Mode 80 (/PH) kAmps
Peak Current Common Mode 160 kAmps
Data Line Protection RJ-11 2-Way Modem/Fax/DSL splitter with protection (four wire dual lines),Co-axial Video / Cable protection,Coaxial 2-Way splitter with protection
Let Through Voltage Rating < 40

Standard Warranty 5 year repair or replace
Equipment protection policy
Lifetime : $750000

I do need to add a whole house suppressor soon at the panel as you said. We don't get a lot of lightning storms, but it only takes one hit.
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post #10 of 774 Old 09-02-2009, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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How much do whole home suppressors cost? And what are some good brands to look for?

Update (Sept 2nd). AV Doogie. Sorry. Didn't see your RE to my post. $400.00. Not too bad. Thought it would be a few grand. Relief.
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post #11 of 774 Old 09-02-2009, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDD888 View Post

How much do whole home suppressors cost? And what are some good brands to look for?

Look Up a couple of posts for some examples

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post #12 of 774 Old 09-15-2009, 03:04 PM
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Nasa does'nt think suppression is myth.. They should know ya think!

VooDOO AUDIO........ VooDoo AUDIO LOUNGE 7.235MHZ 3.630MHZ 3.870MHZ 3.847MHZ www.wz5q.net
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post #13 of 774 Old 09-27-2009, 09:42 PM
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I just (Sept. 28, 2009) ordered an APC H10 AV H Type Power Regulator - 1000VA, 120V for $99.99 from TigerDirect. Shipping was $18.87. Not quite as good as the H15, but should meet my needs. It's not black, but the price was quite good. I'll hide it in the back behind the stand or something!
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post #14 of 774 Old 09-28-2009, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper1lt View Post

AV Doogie,

The H15 has the following:

Surge Protection and Filtering Surge energy rating 5270 Joules
EMI/RFI Noise rejection (100 kHz to 10 MHz) 50 dB
Peak Current Normal Mode 80 (/PH) kAmps
Peak Current Common Mode 160 kAmps
Data Line Protection RJ-11 2-Way Modem/Fax/DSL splitter with protection (four wire dual lines),Co-axial Video / Cable protection,Coaxial 2-Way splitter with protection
Let Through Voltage Rating < 40

Standard Warranty 5 year repair or replace
Equipment protection policy
Lifetime : $750000

I do need to add a whole house suppressor soon at the panel as you said. We don't get a lot of lightning storms, but it only takes one hit.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...031&CatId=4715

I don't see ampere rating anywhere on this link to tigerdirect.com From the website it looks like a Voltage regulator AVR/TVSS and not a significant help in Current Surge suppression.

APC H10 Features

* Automatic Voltage Regulation (AVR)
Automatically steps up low voltage and steps down high voltage to levels that are suitable for your equipment.
* Surge Protection
The H10 Power Conditioner provides a high level of surge protection for the voltage going into the unit, thus protecting the devices connected to the unit. Additionally, surge protected coax/radio frequency (RF) connectors are protected against surges traveling over coaxial lines to protect your digital satellite system (DSS), CATV box, or cable modem. Similarly, the telephone line surge protection feature provides a protected splitter to allow output to a telephone, modem, Digital Subscriber Line (DSL) modem, fax, digital video recorder (DVR), DSS system, set-top internet service provider (such as WebTV), or pay-per-view cable TV function.
* Isolated Noise Filter Banks (INFB)
The H10 also provides INFB technology to eliminate electromagnetic and radio frequency interference that can negatively impact sound and video quality.
* IEEE let-through rating and UL 1449 compliance - The 'Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers' (IEEE) Let-Through Voltage rating is based on a test that subjects a Surge Protector to a 6,000 volt spike. The rating equates to the amount of excess voltage that reaches connected equipment. The lower the number, the better the performance of the Surge Protector is. Underwriter's Laboratory's UL1449 surge protection safety standard uses these ratings to help users gauge performance. UL's best Transient Voltage Surge Suppressor (TVSS) Let-Through Voltage rating is "300V".
* Lightning and Surge Protection - To prevent damage to your equipment from power surges and spikes.

Viper1lt mentioned Peak Current Common Mode 160 kAmps rating.

Am I missing something here?
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post #15 of 774 Old 10-22-2009, 08:04 PM
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So here's a question: If the coax line(s) from a satellite dish are grounded at a grounding block where they come in the house, why would you ever need a surge protector with coax line protection? If lightning struck the satellite dish, the surge would travel down the line, hit the grounding block, then that would be the end of it, right?
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post #16 of 774 Old 10-23-2009, 09:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by UteBrian View Post

So here's a question: If the coax line(s) from a satellite dish are grounded at a grounding block where they come in the house, why would you ever need a surge protector with coax line protection? If lightning struck the satellite dish, the surge would travel down the line, hit the grounding block, then that would be the end of it, right?

Correct. But only if your earthing is sufficient. A ground block and protector do the same thing. Both are only as effective as the earth ground.

A most common source of a direct lightning strike is AC mains - wires highest on the utility pole. Lightning strikes those wires down the street. Incoming on AC electric. Destructively through your electronics. Then to earth via the coax. Every incoming wire in every cable must also connect to that same earthing electrode - either directly (coax) or via a 'whole house' protector (telephone, AC electric). Any wire not properly earthed before entering the building can use other protected wires to harm appliances.

Cable companies recommend not using plug-in protectors (such as the Panamax) on their cable. It only degrades the signal. Since it does not have that all so critical short (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to earth, the plug-in protector does nothing effective.

To protect from surges, a plug-in protector must somehow block or absorb the surge. To do that means it must block or absorb radio signals. So either it does nothing effective, or it degrades signals, or it does a little of both.

Superior protection means upgrading single point earth ground. Expanding the system. Removing wire defects such as sharp wire bends, wire too long, separating that ground wire from other non-grounding wires, etc.
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post #17 of 774 Old 10-23-2009, 06:35 PM
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The reason you need surge protection on the coax is because the grounding block only grounds the shield. There is still the center conductor to deal with.
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post #18 of 774 Old 10-24-2009, 08:33 AM
 
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The reason you need surge protection on the coax is because the grounding block only grounds the shield. There is still the center conductor to deal with.

To have a surge inside the cable means a surge must exist on the shield. In most cases, surge eliminated on the shield means no surge inside. Or according to a professional who describes it better: Richard Harrison in "Lightning Arrester" on 12 Dec 2003 in the newsgroup rec.radio.amateur.antenna:
> Coax, inside, rejects common-mode propagation of lightning energy.
> Coax, outside, needs good grounding to make a good path around
> (bypass for) protected equipment.

If you need protection for that inside conductor, you need a protector actually designed to provide that protection. And again, that protector must be connected short ('less than 10 feet') to earth. See Polyphaser for such protectors. And notice the price for these properly designed protectors for 'industrial strength' protection.

Plug-in protector that claims coax protection is even not recommended by cable companies. It only degrades a cable signal. It too far from earth ground to earth the typically destructive surge. And what an IEEE brochure even demonstrates; too close to the appliance to even earth a surge destructively through that TV.

Numerous reasons why a homeowner needs no protector on the center conductor and why such protectors do more harm than good. Reason one from Richard Harrison is more that sufficient to explain why sufficient protection is provided when the ground block is properly earthed. Properly earthed - not worrying about the center conductor - is more important many times over.
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post #19 of 774 Old 10-24-2009, 02:56 PM
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Yes, proper earthing is paramount. But there are circumstances when a damaging voltage differential can develop between the shield and the center conductor.

I was not recommending a plug in device. The surge needs to be stopped before it enters the building. You do not need "industrial grade" equipment to do this. The Polyphaser equipment relies on the same technology as can be found in less expensive intended for residential application.

The argument that cable companies recommend against such protection is a poor one. Cable companies are only interested in their own bottom line. The use of plug-in devices causes them to lose money in service calls. That is why they discourage the use of them. FWIW a device that uses a gas discharge tube should not cause any significant degradation to the cable service.
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post #20 of 774 Old 10-24-2009, 04:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm View Post

The argument that cable companies recommend against such protection is a poor one. Cable companies are only interested in their own bottom line.

Around here, cable company service calls are free. If their equipment fails even due to lightning, equipment is replaced for free - their cost. Once major companies took over hoe-dunk cable, then all installers were retrained in proper earthing. Increase costs. All customers got rewired. Why spend so much? Cable companies need better protection and reliable equipment to maintain customers.

What does a plug-in protector do on cable company lines. 1) No earth ground means no effective protection. 2) Degrades signals. 3) Can even contribute to electronics and coax wire damage due to being too close to the appliance and too far from earth ground. 4) Creates increased cable company costs when they must roll a truck to fix these many problems.

Every dollar spent on a plug-in protector is better spent upgrading earth ground - assuming the homeowner wants protected appliances. Numerous reasons why cable companies recommend no plug-in protectors on their cable.

To install protectors that do not degrade signals, see Polyphaser. Consumer grade (plug-in) protector is typically inferior - degrade cable signals. And is not located where it can provide protection - not located where a Polyphaser protector would be located. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Cable needs no protector to make that connection.
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post #21 of 774 Old 10-24-2009, 06:02 PM
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You keep harping on plug-in devices, which as I said, I do not recommend. Is there so reason for this?

Consider a gas-discharge tube for protection of a coaxial line in a whole-house protector properly installed and grounded at the service entrance of a house (proper earth ground and less than 10'). How would that gas-discharge tube be ineffective or degrade the cable signal?
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post #22 of 774 Old 10-24-2009, 07:32 PM
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I researched surge suppressors for 6 to 7 months last year because I got tired of reading all the claims about joules ratings and how much of a warranty a particular surge protector would provide. I decided that there had to be something better out there. I found it, but it will cost you to get the ultimate in protection.

It is called series-mode surge suppression, and it doesn't use sacrificial components like MOVs. MOVs should be outlawed. They deteriorate, blow up, and cause fires. They provide the end user with a false sense of security and must be replaced every few years because of the deterioration.

The best of these series-mode devices is the SurgeX surge suppressor. The other 3 companies are licensees of SurgeX. SurgeX can take a 3000A, 6000V ( 18 million Watt ) spike and, unlike the other 3 companies, stop it dead in its tracks. No voltage whatsoever leaves the box, not on the ground or on the neutral wire like the other 3 companies. The other 3 companies are using old 1990's series mode 2-wire technology. SurgeX has gone way beyond that, and the other companies cannot use the new 3-wire technology because of the SurgeX patents.

Good bi-directional noise filtering is included. I compared the difference between SurgeX filtering and no filtering at all using a Monster noise sniffer. Without the SurgeX, the meter was overloaded beyond 199 millivolts of line noise, and the RFI was very loud. With the SurgeX, the noise sniffer showed 0 millivolts of noise, and I had to place my ear against the speaker to detect a faint amount of RFI.

With such a device, warranties against equipment damage and joules ratings so common in MOV-based devices are meaningless, and are not used in advertising. There is also no need for a coax connection on these devices.

I learned that the surgeX devices in varying designs are used to protect mission critical equipment where failure is not an option. I learned through my research that SurgeX is used to protect the uplink to the Hubble Space Telescope, to protect hospital surgical equipment and MRI machines, and used by some of the top names ( I won't name them ) in the movie and TV industry to protect their home theater systems.

I also learned that whole house surge suppressors aren't all that they are claimed to be because the farther away you get from the electrical panel, the higher the ground potential can rise so you can still damage equipment even though you have a whole house device.

The company also makes a more expensive high-end line called EmpowerAC, but it contains the same technology, but in a prettier, more expensive box. They also have ones that have under and over voltage protection.

I wouldn't waste my money on a cheap MOV-based surge suppressor as the sole means of protection, but you can plug in such a device, including a UPS to the SurgeX, and the MOVs will never go bad because they will never see a spike or surge.

For those of you in Hawaii, the Pacific North Western/ Hawaii region ( Washington State ) and National Sales representatives for SurgeX will be in Honolulu on business from Oct 26 to Oct 28. They can clear up the confusion that exists about any technological questions and the relationship between the 4 companies. You can find his name and phone number on the surgeX.com web site. Maybe they will even talk to you over a few beers or wine.
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post #23 of 774 Old 10-25-2009, 07:54 AM
 
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Quote:
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It is called series-mode surge suppression, and it doesn't use sacrificial components like MOVs. MOVs should be outlawed. They deteriorate, blow up, and cause fires. They provide the end user with a false sense of security and must be replaced every few years because of the deterioration.

See that safety ground wire? The third prong on an AC plug? That wire connects a surge around a series mode device. Bypasses protection.

Series mode protector are supplementary protection. Must somehow block surges when professionals say surges cannot be blocked, stopped, or absorbed. It typically addresses a type of transient that can be filtered - that may be made irrelevant even by how electronics are designed.

Supplementary protection is ineffective without earthing and a 'whole house' protector. Once the 'whole house' protector is earthed, then supplementary protection can address lesser transients and noise. But noise must also be made irrelevant inside electronics. That is the point. Series mode filters are for transients that should have been made irrelevant inside the electronics.

MOVs are sacrificial only when the consumer has purchased a scam. Protectors that are undersized (and therefore have higher profits) get the naive to recommend them. Often heard, "My protector sacrificed itself to protect my computer." Reality: the protector was so grossly undersized as to fail when a surge was too small to damage anything else. Undersizing a protector means the naive will recommend it.

Meanwhile, properly sized (effective) surge protectors (ie one 'whole house') is rated at 50,000 amps (or more) to earth a direct lightning strike and remain functional. When an MOV protector is properly sized, even direct lightning strikes cause no damage.

Once the 'whole house' protector is earthed, only then will a surge not use safety ground to bypass that series mode protector. Why? A destructive surge earthed before entering the building need not be seen by the Surgex, Brickwall, or Zerosurge protectors. Superior protection that does not cost $100+ per appliance - ie that Surgex. Superior protection costs about $1 per protected appliance.

Somehow that Surgex will stop what three miles of sky could not? Why does that claim have credibility? No protector stops or blocks such surges. Even the safety ground wire compromises (bypasses) that series mode filter. No way around what was well proven even 100 years ago. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.
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post #24 of 774 Old 10-26-2009, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westom View Post

See that safety ground wire? The third prong on an AC plug? That wire connects a surge around a series mode device. Bypasses protection.

Series mode protector are supplementary protection. Must somehow block surges when professionals say surges cannot be blocked, stopped, or absorbed. It typically addresses a type of transient that can be filtered - that may be made irrelevant even by how electronics are designed.

Supplementary protection is ineffective without earthing and a 'whole house' protector. Once the 'whole house' protector is earthed, then supplementary protection can address lesser transients and noise. But noise must also be made irrelevant inside electronics. That is the point. Series mode filters are for transients that should have been made irrelevant inside the electronics.

MOVs are sacrificial only when the consumer has purchased a scam. Protectors that are undersized (and therefore have higher profits) get the naive to recommend them. Often heard, "My protector sacrificed itself to protect my computer." Reality: the protector was so grossly undersized as to fail when a surge was too small to damage anything else. Undersizing a protector means the naive will recommend it.

Meanwhile, properly sized (effective) surge protectors (ie one 'whole house') is rated at 50,000 amps (or more) to earth a direct lightning strike and remain functional. When an MOV protector is properly sized, even direct lightning strikes cause no damage.

Once the 'whole house' protector is earthed, only then will a surge not use safety ground to bypass that series mode protector. Why? A destructive surge earthed before entering the building need not be seen by the Surgex, Brickwall, or Zerosurge protectors. Superior protection that does not cost $100+ per appliance - ie that Surgex. Superior protection costs about $1 per protected appliance.

Somehow that Surgex will stop what three miles of sky could not? Why does that claim have credibility? No protector stops or blocks such surges. Even the safety ground wire compromises (bypasses) that series mode filter. No way around what was well proven even 100 years ago. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

_____________________________

In the 1st paragraph, you claim "professionals" state that surges can't be stopped, blocked, or absorbed. What professionals are you referring to? Are they electrical engineers with intimate knowledge of these devices or just someone else writing an outdated and inaccurate review about the current status of series-mode technology or someone else posting their opinion on this forum? I get my information direct from manufacturers rather than from forums.

A SurgeX WILL "block" and "stop" a surge (dissipating the energy as a negligible amount of heat). That is a proven, substantiated fact, not theory or someone's opinion on a forum. It will stop 18,000,000 Watts of energy @ 6,000 Volts and 3,000 Amps dead in its tracks. It has an A-1-1 certification rating, the most stringent surge suppression rating in the industry. Others may claim to meet the rating, but are not certified to my knowledge.

I don't understand all of the implications, but whole house surge suppression may stop outside spikes from getting in, but the farther away you get from the electrical panel, the higher the ground potential can become. It is no longer zero so it is still necessary and better overall to add protection right at the device being protected.

You state that when an MOV protector is properly sized, even direct lightning strikes cause no damage. Then why is it that even though a video projector was protected by a so called "good quality" $200+or more, Monster MOV surge suppressor, the projector was damaged when our electric company had an island wide power failure? Are you suggesting that high-end Monster surge suppressors are a scam? Why is it that a friend's multi-million dollar yacht in Florida, with "excellent protection" suffered $250,000 of damage because of a direct lightning strike to the antenna?

Even a SurgeX or any other series-mode device can't protect against a direct lightning strike.

I have spoken directly with experts at SurgeX, BrickWall, and ZeroSurge, but not Torus Power in Canada. They all sell series-mode devices, but ONLY SurgeX has 21st century ZERO LET-THROUGH 3-wire technology while its 3 licensees, BrickWall, ZeroSurge, and Torus Power, are only permitted to sell 1990's 2-wire technology. It is still good technology, by SurgeX is the best and most current series-mode technology available.

I use SurgeX on my computer, plasma TV, and high-end audio equipment. If I couldn't afford the higher priced SurgeX, I would not hesitate to purchase one of the lower cost old technology alternative series-mode devices instead of wasting my money on even older MOV technology.
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post #25 of 774 Old 10-26-2009, 06:01 PM
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_____________________________

In the 1st paragraph, you claim "professionals" state that surges can't be stopped, blocked, or absorbed. What professionals are you referring to? Are they electrical engineers with intimate knowledge of these devices or just someone else writing an outdated and inaccurate review about the current status of series-mode technology or someone else posting their opinion on this forum? I get my information direct from manufacturers rather than from forums.

A SurgeX WILL "block" and "stop" a surge (dissipating the energy as a negligible amount of heat). That is a proven, substantiated fact, not theory or someone's opinion on a forum. It will stop 18,000,000 Watts of energy @ 6,000 Volts and 3,000 Amps dead in its tracks. It has an A-1-1 certification rating, the most stringent surge suppression rating in the industry. Others may claim to meet the rating, but are not certified to my knowledge.

I don't understand all of the implications, but whole house surge suppression may stop outside spikes from getting in, but the farther away you get from the electrical panel, the higher the ground potential can become. It is no longer zero so it is still necessary and better overall to add protection right at the device being protected.

You state that when an MOV protector is properly sized, even direct lightning strikes cause no damage. Then why is it that even though a video projector was protected by a so called "good quality" $200+or more, Monster MOV surge suppressor, the projector was damaged when our electric company had an island wide power failure? Are you suggesting that high-end Monster surge suppressors are a scam? Why is it that a friend's multi-million dollar yacht in Florida, with "excellent protection" suffered $250,000 of damage because of a direct lightning strike to the antenna?

Even a SurgeX or any other series-mode device can't protect against a direct lightning strike.

I have spoken directly with experts at SurgeX, BrickWall, and ZeroSurge, but not Torus Power in Canada. They all sell series-mode devices, but ONLY SurgeX has 21st century ZERO LET-THROUGH 3-wire technology while its 3 licensees, BrickWall, ZeroSurge, and Torus Power, are only permitted to sell 1990's 2-wire technology. It is still good technology, by SurgeX is the best and most current series-mode technology available.

I use SurgeX on my computer, plasma TV, and high-end audio equipment. If I couldn't afford the higher priced SurgeX, I would not hesitate to purchase one of the lower cost old technology alternative series-mode devices instead of wasting my money on even older MOV technology.

You need to gather some facts on these units and compare them using the same standards. Again, I am looking for the third party testing that would allow me to believe the sales hype.

My Home Theater Site:

DJ-Theater
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post #26 of 774 Old 10-28-2009, 07:24 PM
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What is THE IDEAL setup for a home theater system which would include:

a. Surge protector
b. UPS
c. Power line conditioner
d. Automatic voltage regulator

Questions
1. All-in-one system or separate components?
2. If separate components, how separate?
3. How should they be connected?
4. Specific recommendations?
5. Why?

Rules
1. Money is no object
2. No Snake Oil

I am looking for the best, that's it. Again, no snake oil.
Thanks in advance.
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In the 1st paragraph, you claim "professionals" state that surges can't be stopped, blocked, or absorbed. What professionals are you referring to? Are they electrical engineers with intimate knowledge of these devices ...
A SurgeX WILL "block" and "stop" a surge (dissipating the energy as a negligible amount of heat). That is a proven, substantiated fact, not theory or someone's opinion on a forum.

This electrical engineer with a few decades of design experience says your are either promoting a scam or have been taken in by the scam. But other professionals will be quoted.

First, where is a long list of spec numbers that supports your claims? Your posts are subjective. Few numbers imply trivial if any protection (discussed later).

It will 'block' and 'stop' a surge? Do you really believe what sales brochures tell you to believe? NIST (US government research agency) - also called professionals - say what protectors must do.
> You cannot really suppress a surge altogether, nor "arrest" it. What these protective
> devices do is neither suppress nor arrest a surge, but simply divert it to ground,
> where it can do no harm.

Despite your denials - professional state quite bluntly that a protector cannot 'stop', 'block', 'arrest', or 'absorb' surges. No effective protector does that. Why is Surgex contradicting professionals? Do you really hope a tiny filter will stop what three miles of sky could not? Damned if you do. Somehow your Surgex will 'suppress' or 'arrest' a surge? Nonsense. Somehow you know more than the NIST because you were told what to believe by Surgex sales brochures?

Why did you again ignore that safety ground wire? Another path for the surge to bypass your series mode filter. Or did Surgex forget to discuss that weakness so that you would ignore it? I asked it before. Why does that safety ground wire that bypasses a Surgex not carry the surge?

A series mode filter can provide supplementary protection. But is ineffective (and not used by professionals) when it is the only protector. Supplementary protection only after serious protection is earthed. Supplementary protection that is often is not necessary if a properly earthed protector is installed.

More from the NIST:
> A very important point to keep in mind is that your surge protector will work by
> diverting the surges to ground. The best surge protection in the world can be
> useless if grounding is not done properly.

NIST describes your Surgex: "can be useless if grounding is not done properly". Could it be any more blunt? A protector without earth ground has no place to harmlessly dissipate energy. Which should I believe? You who claim a small Surgex will store hundreds of thousands of joules? Or professionals who have been doing this stuff for 100 years with routine success. Which should I believe?

Having done this stuff, I go with the professionals. And I note more of your claims that contradict even basic electrical engineering concepts.

Where does energy get dissipated? If your Surgex can store all that energy, then slowly release it, well, you have just proven we can routinely store and use lightning. Funny how nobody has been able to capture that free energy. Surgex would not lie. Somehow it must store and slowly release that energy. We just forgot to tap that free energy? Why are we so ignorant and Surgex is so smart? Maybe Surgex can store energy that nobody else has been able to?

To store energy, that Surgex must conduct 20,000 amps incoming and outgoing. Or does your electricity flow with only an incoming path and no outgoing path? Even in second grade science, electricity did not work that way. Where is the outgoing path for that 20,000 amps? No outgoing path means the Surgex cannot store any energy. Ironic. The outgoing path is through the 'so called' protected appliance. What kind of protection is that? Mythical.

Let's see. Orange Count FL suffered surge damage to emergency response equipment. So they installed a series mode filter? Of course not. Instead they consulted professionals. Simple solution. Upgrade what provides surge protection. Fix what dissipates a surge - harmlessly. Earth ground:
http://www.psihq.com/AllCopper.htm

From QST magazine (the voice of the ARRL) in a July 2002 article entitled "Lightning Protection for the Amateur Radio Station":
> The purpose of the ground connection is to take the energy arriving on
>the antenna feed line cables and control lines (and to a lesser extent
> on the power and telephone lines) and give it a path back to the
> earth, our energy sink.

Even amateur radio operators understand what is necessary for protection. How do you contradict reams of professionals? By typically ignoring facts. By even ignoring a safety ground that bypasses your series mode protector. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. But somehow Surgex will contradict professionals (and the NIST) to perform miracles?

Sun Microsystems needs effective protection for server rooms. Do they install series mode protectors? Of course not. Sun says that energy must not even enter the building. From Sun's installation guide:
> Section 6.4.7 Lightning Protection:
> Lightning surges cannot be stopped, but they can be diverted. The
> plans for the data center should be thoroughly reviewed to identify
> any paths for surge entry into the data center. Surge arrestors ...
> should divert the power of the surge by providing a path to ground
> for the surge energy.

Why do professionals say that? Professionals have understood this stuff for over 100 years. How many decades is your design experience? You did not even know what the NIST said. With basic knowledge, you would have known that without reading the NIST. Insufficient knowledge is further apparent in a Monster Cable myth.

Monster Cable has a long history of sell scams. Monster takes a grocery store protector circuit selling for $7. Adds some fancy paint. Sells it for $150. And then you call it:
> ... a so called "good quality" $200+or more, Monster MOV surge suppressor
Are you that poorly informed? If Monster is selling it, it must be a scam. Did you know speaker wire also has polarity? Monster said so. Therefore Monster Cable could also sell $7 of speaker wire for $70 - and be recommended in posts that look so much like yours.

Let's view the few numbers you did provide. If a Surgex filter can stop a surge, you can tell us what its breakdown voltage is. Every device has a breakdown voltage. Yours only claims 6000 volts? So you tell us surges never exceed 6000 volts? Nonsense. Anything that would stop (or store) a surge means that device has the entire voltage on it. A basic concept from electrical engineering. Voltage will increase as necessary to blow through the stopping device. When was the last time lighting (or other destructive surges) was always less than 6000 volts?

It only stops 3000 amps? The average lightning strike is 20,000 amps. We install effective protection so that even direct lightning strikes cause no damage. No damage even to the protector. An effective 'whole house' protector - rated at least 50,000 amps - so that even direct lightning strikes cause no damage.

A 'whole house' protector costs about $1 per protected appliance. How much is that Surgex to only protect one appliance? $300? At what point does the myth also get expensive? $300 and it does not even withstand on average lightning strike? Those are your numbers. Somehow it will magically make surge energy just disappear? Show me any professional that makes that claim.

Does it somehow store a direct lightning strike; then make that energy slowly leak away? Congratulations. You just solved the energy crisis. Now we can absorb energy from all lightning strikes and slowly power the rest of the world. Yes, as long as junk science works.

More myths:
> ...the farther away you get from the electrical panel, the
> higher the ground potential can become.

How curious. Where protection has been installed for 100 years to make even direct lighting strikes irrelevant - better protection means up to 50 meter separation between the protector and earth ground. That separation means even better protection. But it helps to first learn basic electrical concepts such as wire impedance. Without fundamental knowledge, you must believe what salesmen tell you to believe. Why do telcos - that must never have surge damage - want their electronics up to 50 meters separated from the protector. So your salesmen invented the GP myth? Or did you?

Effective protection means energy does not enter the building. Or did the professionals from Sun Microsystems lie? Once inside the building (with or without the Surgex), that energy will hunt destructively for earth ground. But then you just learned that from the NIST: "The best surge protection in the world can be useless if grounding is not done properly." Surgex has no earth ground. But it does have a safety ground so that surges can bypass the Surgex. Same safety ground has been cited repeatedly - and repeatedly ignored by you. Or maybe the Surgex rated for 3000 amps will somehow magically absorb 20,000 amps. After all, three miles of the best insulator could not stop it. But a silly little Surgex will?

Why do professionals always discuss earthing and lightning. Why do they not just plug in a magic solution from Surgex? Professionals deal in reality? Salesmen promote myths? Your numbers even define the Surgex as ineffective. Too small. Does not protect from the typically destructive surge. Costs 300 times more money. But it must be better only because you know so. And how many systems did you design to suffer direct lightning strikes without damage? Meanwhile, as stated previously, you are posting in direct contradiction what professionals have known for over 100 years.

We install protectors for direct lightning strikes. Other smaller transients are made irrelevant by protection already inside appliances AND by that 'whole house' protector. But you would spend $300 per protected appliance - and not protect from lightning? Just another reason to smell a scam. Somehow that electricity is incoming but no outgoing path? More smell of the scam. We install one 'whole house' protector - about $1 per protected appliance - to protect from direct lightning strikes. Also necessary to protect that Surgex rates only for 6000 volts or 3000 amps. Why then should we spend 300 times more money for the Surgex - that does not even protect from the typically destructive surge - lightning? Because we like to be scammed? Or because you told us to trust you. Clearly I was wasting a few decades learning this stuff. Next time I will wait for you to learn from the sales brochure.

If I really wanted to be scammed, I would buy your 'high quality' Monster Cable product. Even the NIST says why the Monster Cable is also ineffective. "The best surge protection in the world can be useless if grounding is not done properly." A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. But somehow the professionals are wrong and Surgex is right?

Please do not selectively reply. You recommended the Surgex. Your reply to every paragraph should be chock full of Surgex spec numbers. You made the claim. Then you can quote the numbers. Let's start with its breakdown voltage - that must be massively higher than 6000 volts. And that safety ground wire that somehow will not bypass the Surgex.

Others also have asked the same question. Where are your numbers?
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post #28 of 774 Old 10-29-2009, 06:16 PM
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Who ever said anything about lightning strikes? I certainly didn't. Who ever said anything about joules? I didn't, but a series-mode surge suppressor is equivalent to about 90,000 joules of energy capture. Are there any typical residential MOV-based "surge redirectors" that have such a high joules rating? I also didn't say that Monster surge suppressors ( redirectors ) are good. I used the term "so-called good quality". I didn't say they were good quality. You are mis-interpreting everything I say.

The surges I refer to are really called transients in the microsecond and millisecond range. Anything beyond that is a different type of event, a true ‘surge’. ANSI/IEEE Standard C62.41 deals with all aspects of surge energy and addresses all types of surge protection from entrance to outlet. Defined maximum energy at 6000v 3000a before catastrophic damage occurs. Anything beyond that is considered too severe to block.

For some electrical devices, the startup spikes can be in thousands of volts. Failure of an electrical device upstream from your device can damage that device.

The farther away you get from the electrical panel, the greater induced energy CAN become. Ground bonding lowers impedance (and energy ‘into’ ground) over distance – required by NEC in all new construction. Ground bonding lowers impedance and helps ‘drain’ induced fields and surge energy, but it is far from perfect! The only point in a system where ground and neutral are the ‘same thing’ is right at the service entrance where they are bonded together at the ground rods. The farther from the service entrance you go, the higher the ground impedance (resistance) and the greater the induced random stray electromagnetic energy. If you get far enough away, the ground isn't much different from neutral or even hot in rare cases. Even without a surge event present, ground in fact is hardly a ‘quiet low-voltage safe place’ that most of us tend to picture it as. It can be as nasty as the actual hot wire in some cases.

According to Ieee/ ANSI up to 6000 volts @ 3000 amps can still travel inside on the ground conductor during a surge event (before catastrophic damage), both via conduction as well as induction on the branch circuit – this is 18 MILLION watts.

Regarding MOV's, they simply dump energy elsewhere. Energy coming in on ground can just as easily pass to neutral or hot – MOVs are bidirectional! Surge energy (up to 6000v 3000a) goes both ways on ‘ground wire’. Electrical physics dictates this. If the unit being ‘protected’ is a lower impedance to ‘ground’, the energy will be proportionately delivered there. In other words, ground is contaminated. On branch circuits longer than 15 or 20 feet (every outlet in a house!), it’s entirely likely the device plugged in will present a low enough Z for surge energy to ‘sink’ at the chassis via the ‘safety ground’ pin. This is especially true if there is a heavy ‘single point ground’ at the far end, as is very common in high end sound & theaters – very often is a better ground than at the power service entrance! This is exactly what happened to a friend during last December's island-wide power failure. He lost $18,000 worth of AV processors, and the manufacturer determined that the surge came in on the ground pin of the balanced XLR input. The single-ended, RCA connection was unaffected. Under guidance from the AES (Audio Engineering Society) guidelines from the 1990s, virtually all audio gear built with balanced signal paths, chassis ground is bonded to signal ground with less than 1 Ohm of DC resistance. This means that if an MOV dumps it’s load onto your chassis ground, you are also dumping up to 6000v 3000a (18 million watts) right onto your pin-1 (XLR) audio ‘ground’!

The US Department of State experienced a number of fires involving multiple electrical outlet strips containing TVSS's. The component that failed and caught fire in each case was an MOV. An MOV-based surge suppressor was responsible for $150,000.00 loss in a fire at the embassy St. George's, Grenada. MOVs have been around since the 1970's, and they are designed to fail - 100% of them will fail eventually. Some companies recommend replacing MOV surge suppressors every few years. They are diversionary; they just move surge energy around.

Series-mode devices are the only products to achieve the stringent A-1-1 US Government rating. They provide both normal and common mode protection.

Whole house protection is not recommended because after you are 15-20 from the last suppression point (either the service entrance / ground rods or a series-mode suppression device, the wiring simply becomes an antenna for picking up stray surge energy. This is because ALL metal acts as an antenna – the longer the antenna, the more garbage picked up. it is based on the simple physics of energy induction in electromagnetic fields.

Now for a brief history of series-modeTM surge suppression.

Series-mode technology was developed and pioneered by Rudy Hartford, CEO and chief engineer of ZeroSurge, Andy Benton, chief engineer of SurgeX and Michael McCook, president of SurgeX. The SurgeX brand comes under the company name of New Frontier Electronics. In January, 2009, Electronic Protection System ( EPS ) purchased the North American operations of New Frontier Electronics, while the international component remains under the New Frontier name.

http://blog.digitalcontentproducer.c...s-forces-with-
esp/

All the series-modeTM technology patents and intellectual property rights are solely owned by ESP/SurgeX, not ZeroSurge, BrickWall, or Torus Power. The term “series-mode”TM is a SurgeX trademark. SurgeX sued Furman a few years ago because Furman claimed to have series-mode technology. They do not. SurgeX's patented and trade marked series-modeTM technology was certified A-1-1 by UL 1449 adjunct testing in 1995.

I was mistaken when I said that ZeroSurge, BrickWall, and Torus Power are all licensees of SurgeX. ZeroSurge is the ONLY licensee of the SurgeX patented technology, and ZeroSurge licensed both the 90's 2-wire technology as well as the 2005 3-wire zero let-through technology. While SurgeX shows zero-let through, ZeroSurge shows minimal let through, due in part to the use of different rated components.

Brickwall devices are just rebranded ZeroSurge devices, and are made in the same ZeroSurge facility as ZeroSurge devices. They are also A-1-1 certified.

ZeroSurge makes and sells series-mode technology modules to Torus Power, and it is my understanding that they are the original 2 wire design. Torus Power adds its own noise filtering.

ZeroSurge and BrickWall noise filtering consists of the filtering that the inductor coil can provide. They do not and cannot use the SurgeX patented Impedance Tolerant EMI/RFI noise filtering technology. So far, they have chosen not to design their own specific noise filtering circuitry.

If you look at the SurgeX website under library, you will see an OLD white paper which states that surge energy is slowly release to the neutral wire. That is not true of SurgeX as of 2005 when the new 3-wire zero let-through technology was patented. Unlike the other 3 brands, every Advanced Series-mode surge suppressor sold by SurgeX is a true zero let-through device. No surge energy leaves the box. It is completely absorbed and dissipated as a negligible amount of heat up to 6,000 Volts and 3,000 amps ( 18,000,000 Watts ) 1,000 times and beyond without any degradation of components. It has been vividly demonstrated by SurgeX at trade shows that MOV's blow to bits at this high an energy level while the SurgeX just sits there unaffected by the surge energy.

SurgeX devices are more expensive that ZeroSurge and BrickWall because they are consistently zero let-through devices, and because of the advanced noise filtering technology. SurgeX also has Catastrophic Over/Under Voltage Shutdown ( COUVS ) as well as Inrush Current Eliminator ( ICE ) technology in some of its product line. Next year, SurgeX will be coming out with a new residential line of devices to compete with such familiar names as Panamax as well as UPS's. Their high-end www.empowerac.com line will be absorbed as a SurgeX branded product.

Also, don't confuse surgeX (http://www.surgex.com) with surgex ( lowercase x ) (http://www.surgexsports.com)

If you can't afford the best, then by all means purchase a ZeroSurge product or BrickWall product. They are by far leaps and bounds better than any MOV device on the market, but neither ZeroSurge, BrickWall, nor Torus Power are on par with SurgeX.
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post #29 of 774 Old 10-29-2009, 11:16 PM
 
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Who ever said anything about lightning strikes? I certainly didn't. Who ever said anything about joules? I didn't, ...

You said surge protection. That means protection from lightning. What else typically causes so much surge damage? And what does lightning seek? As the NIST said, effective protection means earthing. Earthing so that destructive energy does not enter the building (ie Sun Microsystems). Low impedance connection to earth because the destructive microsecond surge (ie ANSI/IEEE C62.41) is lightning. You said surge protection. You said C62.41. That standard defines lightning - what an effective protector is installed to protect from.

What is the typical waveform used in datasheets to rate surge protector components? 8/20 microseconds? Also describes lightning. Why use a lightning waveform if surge protectors are not for lightning protection? Oh. Effective protectors are for lightning protection at about $1 per protected appliance. You recommend spending $300 - and it does not protect from lightning.

Why did Orange County FL upgrade earthing and not install series mode protectors? Protection was required for a common destructive source - lightning.

To increase protection, professionals locate a protector distant from electronics and as close to earth as possible (ie US Air Force). Induced surge on long wires? Made irrelevant even by an NE-2 neon glow lamp. A tiny light that conducts milliamps will easily eliminate your induced surge even on antenna wires that are hunderds of feet long. So where is your number that defines that induced surge? Oh. You forgot to mention even milliamps through an NE-2 can eliminate it. You Surgex recommendations come chock full of things you forget to mention.

A typically destructive surge is 20,000 amps. But a Surgex rated only for 3000 volts will magically absorb 20,000 amps without damage. Really.

To store energy, a Surgex must conduct 20,000 amps incoming and outgoing. Or does your electricity flow with only an incoming path and no outgoing path? Even in second grade science, electricity must have both an incoming and outgoing path. What is the outgoing path for that 20,000 amps? Again you will not say. Another example things you forget to mention.

"The farther from the service entrance you go, the higher the ground impedance". You got that right. And what did the NIST say? The protector must divert a surge to earth. When impedance to ground is too high, well, that energy will hunt for earth elsewhere - ie destructively via nearby appliances. Surgex with that long (high impedance) connection to earth does what with that energy? Current must flow to earth no matter how you spin it. Once inside a building, a surge can even use the safety ground wire to bypass the Surgex. To find earth ground destructively via appliances. Is that why you ignore a 'bypassing' safety ground wire? Another example of a protector promoted by ignoring reality.

What appliance is creating thousands of volts on startup? You name it. Then we know the appliance that destroys itself everytime on startup. No reason for a surge protector. If that appliance creates thousands of volts, then it does not exist long enough to damage anything else. Another thing you forgot to mention. Invent a mythical thousand volt appliance. Then sell a Surgex at $300 per protected appliance.

So, what did the NIST say about your Surgex?
> The best surge protection in the world can be useless if grounding
> is not done properly.

What did Sun Microsystem say?
> These should divert the power of the surge by providing a path to
> ground for the surge energy.
Surgex cannot do that and does not claim to. Surgex permits surge energy inside the building - a violation.

What did the ARRL say?
> The purpose of the ground connection is to take the energy ... and
> give it a path back to the earth, our energy sink.
Surgex (and plug-in protectors) cannot do that and do not claim to.

What did Dr. Kenneth Schneider of Telebyte say:
> Conceptually, lightning protection devices are switches to ground. ... Thus,
> redirecting the threatening surge on a path-of-least resistance (impedance)
> to ground where it is absorbed.
Surgex cannot do that. You still make no protection claims with numbers.

What does the US Air Force training manual require?
> Install the surge protection as soon as practical where the conductor
> enters the interior of the facility.
As close to earth ground as is practicable. How curious. That is what effective protectors have done for over 100 years.

How to identify ineffective Surgex protectors? They discuss the company history because 1) it has no dedicated earthing wire, and 2) company will not discuss the 100 year proven need for earthing. Earthing - where surge energy gets harmlessly absorbed.

Why do you ignore a safety ground wire that permits surges to completely bypass the Surgex. Oh. If promoting a Surgex in salesman mode, then any reality that might hurt the sale is ignored. Your few spec numbers say the Surgex will not even protect from lightning. Will not protect from typically destructive surges. Where are your numbers for any protection? More facts you forget to mention.
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post #30 of 774 Old 10-30-2009, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuelie View Post

Who ever said anything about lightning strikes? I certainly didn't. Who ever said anything about joules? I didn't, but a series-mode surge suppressor is equivalent to about 90,000 joules of energy capture. Are there any typical residential MOV-based "surge redirectors" that have such a high joules rating? I also didn't say that Monster surge suppressors ( redirectors ) are good. I used the term "so-called good quality". I didn't say they were good quality. You are mis-interpreting everything I say.

The surges I refer to are really called transients in the microsecond and millisecond range. Anything beyond that is a different type of event, a true surge'. ANSI/IEEE Standard C62.41 deals with all aspects of surge energy and addresses all types of surge protection from entrance to outlet. Defined maximum energy at 6000v 3000a before catastrophic damage occurs. Anything beyond that is considered too severe to block.

For some electrical devices, the startup spikes can be in thousands of volts. Failure of an electrical device upstream from your device can damage that device.

The farther away you get from the electrical panel, the greater induced energy CAN become. Ground bonding lowers impedance (and energy into' ground) over distance - required by NEC in all new construction. Ground bonding lowers impedance and helps drain' induced fields and surge energy, but it is far from perfect! The only point in a system where ground and neutral are the same thing' is right at the service entrance where they are bonded together at the ground rods. The farther from the service entrance you go, the higher the ground impedance (resistance) and the greater the induced random stray electromagnetic energy. If you get far enough away, the ground isn't much different from neutral or even hot in rare cases. Even without a surge event present, ground in fact is hardly a quiet low-voltage safe place' that most of us tend to picture it as. It can be as nasty as the actual hot wire in some cases.

According to Ieee/ ANSI up to 6000 volts @ 3000 amps can still travel inside on the ground conductor during a surge event (before catastrophic damage), both via conduction as well as induction on the branch circuit - this is 18 MILLION watts.

Regarding MOV's, they simply dump energy elsewhere. Energy coming in on ground can just as easily pass to neutral or hot - MOVs are bidirectional! Surge energy (up to 6000v 3000a) goes both ways on ground wire'. Electrical physics dictates this. If the unit being protected' is a lower impedance to ground', the energy will be proportionately delivered there. In other words, ground is contaminated. On branch circuits longer than 15 or 20 feet (every outlet in a house!), it's entirely likely the device plugged in will present a low enough Z for surge energy to sink' at the chassis via the safety ground' pin. This is especially true if there is a heavy single point ground' at the far end, as is very common in high end sound & theaters - very often is a better ground than at the power service entrance! This is exactly what happened to a friend during last December's island-wide power failure. He lost $18,000 worth of AV processors, and the manufacturer determined that the surge came in on the ground pin of the balanced XLR input. The single-ended, RCA connection was unaffected. Under guidance from the AES (Audio Engineering Society) guidelines from the 1990s, virtually all audio gear built with balanced signal paths, chassis ground is bonded to signal ground with less than 1 Ohm of DC resistance. This means that if an MOV dumps it's load onto your chassis ground, you are also dumping up to 6000v 3000a (18 million watts) right onto your pin-1 (XLR) audio ground'!

The US Department of State experienced a number of fires involving multiple electrical outlet strips containing TVSS's. The component that failed and caught fire in each case was an MOV. An MOV-based surge suppressor was responsible for $150,000.00 loss in a fire at the embassy St. George's, Grenada. MOVs have been around since the 1970's, and they are designed to fail - 100% of them will fail eventually. Some companies recommend replacing MOV surge suppressors every few years. They are diversionary; they just move surge energy around.

Series-mode devices are the only products to achieve the stringent A-1-1 US Government rating. They provide both normal and common mode protection.

Whole house protection is not recommended because after you are 15-20 from the last suppression point (either the service entrance / ground rods or a series-mode suppression device, the wiring simply becomes an antenna for picking up stray surge energy. This is because ALL metal acts as an antenna - the longer the antenna, the more garbage picked up. it is based on the simple physics of energy induction in electromagnetic fields.

Now for a brief history of series-modeTM surge suppression.

Series-mode technology was developed and pioneered by Rudy Hartford, CEO and chief engineer of ZeroSurge, Andy Benton, chief engineer of SurgeX and Michael McCook, president of SurgeX. The SurgeX brand comes under the company name of New Frontier Electronics. In January, 2009, Electronic Protection System ( EPS ) purchased the North American operations of New Frontier Electronics, while the international component remains under the New Frontier name.

http://blog.digitalcontentproducer.c...s-forces-with-
esp/

All the series-modeTM technology patents and intellectual property rights are solely owned by ESP/SurgeX, not ZeroSurge, BrickWall, or Torus Power. The term series-modeTM is a SurgeX trademark. SurgeX sued Furman a few years ago because Furman claimed to have series-mode technology. They do not. SurgeX's patented and trade marked series-modeTM technology was certified A-1-1 by UL 1449 adjunct testing in 1995.

I was mistaken when I said that ZeroSurge, BrickWall, and Torus Power are all licensees of SurgeX. ZeroSurge is the ONLY licensee of the SurgeX patented technology, and ZeroSurge licensed both the 90's 2-wire technology as well as the 2005 3-wire zero let-through technology. While SurgeX shows zero-let through, ZeroSurge shows minimal let through, due in part to the use of different rated components.

Brickwall devices are just rebranded ZeroSurge devices, and are made in the same ZeroSurge facility as ZeroSurge devices. They are also A-1-1 certified.

ZeroSurge makes and sells series-mode technology modules to Torus Power, and it is my understanding that they are the original 2 wire design. Torus Power adds its own noise filtering.

ZeroSurge and BrickWall noise filtering consists of the filtering that the inductor coil can provide. They do not and cannot use the SurgeX patented Impedance Tolerant EMI/RFI noise filtering technology. So far, they have chosen not to design their own specific noise filtering circuitry.

If you look at the SurgeX website under library, you will see an OLD white paper which states that surge energy is slowly release to the neutral wire. That is not true of SurgeX as of 2005 when the new 3-wire zero let-through technology was patented. Unlike the other 3 brands, every Advanced Series-mode surge suppressor sold by SurgeX is a true zero let-through device. No surge energy leaves the box. It is completely absorbed and dissipated as a negligible amount of heat up to 6,000 Volts and 3,000 amps ( 18,000,000 Watts ) 1,000 times and beyond without any degradation of components. It has been vividly demonstrated by SurgeX at trade shows that MOV's blow to bits at this high an energy level while the SurgeX just sits there unaffected by the surge energy.

SurgeX devices are more expensive that ZeroSurge and BrickWall because they are consistently zero let-through devices, and because of the advanced noise filtering technology. SurgeX also has Catastrophic Over/Under Voltage Shutdown ( COUVS ) as well as Inrush Current Eliminator ( ICE ) technology in some of its product line. Next year, SurgeX will be coming out with a new residential line of devices to compete with such familiar names as Panamax as well as UPS's. Their high-end www.empowerac.com line will be absorbed as a SurgeX branded product.

Also, don't confuse surgeX (http://www.surgex.com) with surgex ( lowercase x ) (http://www.surgexsports.com)

If you can't afford the best, then by all means purchase a ZeroSurge product or BrickWall product. They are by far leaps and bounds better than any MOV device on the market, but neither ZeroSurge, BrickWall, nor Torus Power are on par with SurgeX.

Some clarifications you should understand.

1) The 6000V @ 3000A value is typically used as a test waveform for standard testing of industrial grade type suppressors. You would not get 18 million watts of energy from this scenario because the waveform duration is very short (less than 20 micro seconds). You are either not reading or understanding the way that suppressor testing is performed.

2) You indicate that Series mode devices are the only devices to achieve A-1-1 government rating. I don't even know what this means??? There are numerous manufacturers which provide third party testing of their suppression devices and achieve the best possible ratings within the specified categories for energy suppression, EMI/RFI filtering and ring wave suppression. These are category B, C and voltage let through tests. I guarantee you that if you supply 18 million watts to your surgeX device, It will not survive!!

3) You state the following which is complete B.S. Whole house protection is not recommended because after you are 15-20 from the last suppression point (either the service entrance / ground rods or a series-mode suppression device, the wiring simply becomes an antenna for picking up stray surge energy. This is because ALL metal acts as an antenna - the longer the antenna, the more garbage picked up. it is based on the simple physics of energy induction in electromagnetic fields. . You need to spend some time learning more about the standard practices of providing multiple levels of suppression....and learn some more about EM field theory.

Please don't spread any more of this crap as you have done above. It is not helpful for those looking to get solid advice based upon good engineering and standard industry design practice.

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