Very High Quality DIY speakers anywhere? - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 2588 Old 09-27-2003, 03:37 PM
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Don,

I still think there was a manufacturing defect of the MDF involved as well. I hope you have better quality MDF than the stuff I had.

Rather than use glue alone, I will add 8 screws through the outer most layer of the end-cap and into the inner two layers. The screws should help a lot in keeping the inner layers of MDF attached to the outer layer.

I'll post pictures later. I'm about to go outside and make some sawdust.

Joe L.
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post #632 of 2588 Old 09-27-2003, 04:01 PM
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Joe,
You've got an excuse to get the router out again. I check mine from time to time after watching something with heavy bass. So far so good. My main concern is the port tube coming loose. It is the green 6" sewer pipe and pretty heavy.
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post #633 of 2588 Old 09-27-2003, 04:09 PM
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Hey all - some of the links posted earlier in this thread for how to build a sonosub appear to be broken, or just not very complete. Can anyone point me to a definitive site with specific build details, mainly for the kind that is 6' tall by 18" dia using a single 15" driver?

- John
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post #634 of 2588 Old 09-27-2003, 04:20 PM
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Snowdog12,

Although not a specific site, the following page has about the most comprehensive list of sonosub links I found when doing my initial investigations.

http://members.tripod.com/~terrycthe...um/page12.html

Have fun... I'm sure some links will be dead, but there are plenty of others to choose from.

If you get really ambitious, you can try a DIY version of the sub at the following link. Although not a sonosub, I'll bet it would be fine for a Home Theater as it seems that it is flat down to 10 Hz. Solves the problem of where to put it in the room and doesn't take much power to drive it to reference levels either:
DIY alternative to a Sonosub
(I didn't think my wife would understand...so I didn't even propose it as a possibility... but you may have a more understanding spouse... on the other hand... after seeing this, almost anything else might seem very acceptable )

Joe L.
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post #635 of 2588 Old 09-27-2003, 05:41 PM
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post #636 of 2588 Old 09-28-2003, 11:00 AM
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Anyone ever use the asphalt or vinyl damping material from Parts Express?
http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage....ectGroup_ID=37
I'm starting to acquire the materials for my new 2-channels speaks.
jeff

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post #637 of 2588 Old 09-28-2003, 04:29 PM
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Jeff -

I have used a "sound deadening material" (in combination with acoustic foam) from Parts Express in several speakers with good results.

Here is a URL: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd..._ID=7083&DID=7

It (supposedly) absorbs sound and converts it to heat.

It is dense, cuts easily and has an adhesive that sticks well. You can actually mold it into corners. I glue acoustic foam right over the top of it. The result is somewhat like BalckHole at a lower cost.

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post #638 of 2588 Old 09-28-2003, 04:32 PM
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Jeff -

For some reason the full URL will not display. But you can find it under "panel damping" in the Speaker Building section.

- Jim

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post #639 of 2588 Old 09-28-2003, 05:35 PM
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Jim,
Yeah, I forgot to mention that I'm looking for similar results to Blackhole 5 at a lower price. BTW, I have narrowed my speaker choices to either the Ellis 1801B per your recommendation and the Utopia OW1. I know both XOs are by Dennis Murphy and should be excellent. However, the Focal drivers in the Utopia are less expensive than the Seas. If I expect big bass, I know I'll need a subwoofer. I still have a 10" 100wpc Energy sub that was part of my HT system that I'll try. Since subs are so easy to build what do you think?
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post #640 of 2588 Old 09-28-2003, 06:31 PM
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Jeff -

I guess it depends on the amount of detail you are looking for. The Seas W18's are about the most detailed mid-woofer there is. That is why I selected a variation of it for my Veracity design. But if you don't listen to music with a lot of detail, perhaps you wouldn't need it.

I'll pass along this story: The first time I talked to Dave Ellis about his 1801's, I told him I wanted to use it in a home theater installation and he started laughing. I asked him what he was laughing about and he said, "that's a bit of over-kill, isn't it?"

In other words, for home theater, rock and pop music, the extra detail may not be needed. On the other hand, I'll take all the detail I can get.

I have never built a Utopia OW1, but knowing Dennis, I'm sure it would be a great speaker. I have built many MBOW1's for home theaters and I have never had a disatisfied client. Both of the designs you have chosen are a step up from there.

I'm also just starting to build a floor-standing 1801F for a client. If I get a chance to install the drivers and test them out (he originally indicated he wated to do the final assembly), I'll let you know how it compares to the 1801B.

How's that for a definitive answer?

Now, if you were asking about subs, I would think you would want to eventually replace the Energy sub and build something that better matches the performance of whatever speaker you choose to build.

- Jim

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post #641 of 2588 Old 09-29-2003, 03:52 PM
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hey joe, what sonosub plans/website did you use as the basis for your sonosub? All the links are great, but I can't seem to find any that show an enclosure as tall as yours! And thanks everyone for the links so far!

- John
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post #642 of 2588 Old 09-29-2003, 07:17 PM
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John,
Go back one page and click on the next to last link that I listed. It is the sonosub that I built last December. The one that JL built is the same. If you want tall, this is it. Mine is over 72" tall.
Jeff

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post #643 of 2588 Old 09-29-2003, 07:57 PM
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SnowDog12,

Basically Jeff is correct.

My sub is a combination of several other designs.

First, I used a Adire Tempest driver. It is different than the driver Jeff used, but similar. (they have different T/S specs)

To assist in the use of their drivers, Adire has available on their site a demo version of LSpcad with their drivers loaded into the driver database. I downloaded and used that program to verify the 260 liter design found in one of the links I posted recently.

Once I decided on the internal volume of the enclosure, I used the sonosub calculator (Jeff posted a link to it about one page back) to calculate the length of my 18 inch inside diameter sonotube needed. This length took into consideration the size and volume of the end-caps, driver, and port tube. All told, I think my sonotube was about 66 3/4 inches long.

I used 4 inch pipes to support the top and bottom plates of my sub. Add 8 inches for the pipes, 1 1/2 inches for the top and bottom plates, about another inch for the length of threaded rods extending through the bottom plate (on which I tightened two nuts and their washers/lockwashers)

All told 66 3/4 + 8 + 1 1/2 + 1 = 77 1/4 inches tall.

Are all designs going to be as tall, no... not if they use different lengths for their feet, a different diameter sonotube, a top plate, etc. Jeff's sub is shorter since he did not use a top plate as I did.

As I said earlier, I used the flexy style of construction. The dimensions were entirely determined by the LSpcad design programs as I determined for my Tempest driver.

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post #644 of 2588 Old 09-29-2003, 09:22 PM
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hello
i got time to do a sub woofer,wife does not know yet
it will be my big surprise for her birthday,
so i need your help what kind good driver should i get i`ll need two 12`` and up, what kind of active amp to use with these drivers,,
i`ll put them in a single cabinet,
this time i`ll have a friend of mine carpenter to do it for me, i would only install the drivers and the amp,
do i need a xover for a sub or the active amp will do ,
thank you
i need to do this fast before OCT 2nd,

safaa
more speakers you buy ,more happy you are
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post #645 of 2588 Old 09-29-2003, 11:42 PM
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safaa

You better do it real fast, as Oct 2nd is in just two more days.
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post #646 of 2588 Old 09-30-2003, 06:03 AM
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well if i know what drivers to get i would make the cabinet stain it cut the holes, gloss it , and have the drivers and amp shipped over night,
so far no one recommended any drivers neither an amp.

safaa
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post #647 of 2588 Old 09-30-2003, 12:57 PM
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You can't go wrong with two Shivas from Adire Audio. They also have amps but you may want to go with something like the 250w Parts Express plate amp. They are normally approx $120 and often on sale for $99. The plate amps have XOs.
Jeff


Quote:
Originally posted by safaa
hello
i got time to do a sub woofer,wife does not know yet
it will be my big surprise for her birthday,
so i need your help what kind good driver should i get i`ll need two 12`` and up, what kind of active amp to use with these drivers,,
i`ll put them in a single cabinet,
this time i`ll have a friend of mine carpenter to do it for me, i would only install the drivers and the amp,
do i need a xover for a sub or the active amp will do ,
thank you
i need to do this fast before OCT 2nd,


jeff

What we have heah...is a failya...to communicate.
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post #648 of 2588 Old 09-30-2003, 04:01 PM
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safaa,
Adire has several "white papers" with reference designs for their subwoofer drivers.

Unless you want to use the LSPcad program available on their web-site to design your own enclosure, I would strongly suggest you build one of their proven reference designs if you decide to use one of the Adire drivers.

The bass response of a subwoofer is VERY LARGELY affected by the size of the enclosure and how (or if) it is ported / tuned.

To throw a great driver in a haphazardly sized box will likely produce bass, but be anything but flat in its response. In a word, it won't sound very good and your efforts will be a waste of your time.

It has been said many times that most "car" subwoofers will do very poorly in a home theater when they cannot take advantage of the "cabin gain" that occurs in a car. Stay away from them unless you know what you are doing.

One more thing... the subwoofer enclosure construction is very likely to take you the next two days even if you have all the materials handy. You need to start making sawdust now if you want to get things done by the 2nd.

So... 1. choose a driver
..... 1a. order driver
..... 1b. order sub-amplifier
..... 2. design a enclosure (or use a reference design)
..... 2a. purchase materials for enclosure
..... 3. make sawdust
..... 3a. assemble enclosure
..... 3b. finish enclosure
..... 3c. wait for UPS truck
..... 4. mount driver and amplifier
..... 5. wrap with red ribbon and present as gift

Yup... at least two days effort...
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post #649 of 2588 Old 09-30-2003, 06:56 PM
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One more day left, so you only hope to make it "done" by the 2nd, is to get one that is "pre-made" as much as possible, and to have it shipped overnight. Like maybe one of the stryke models.

http://www.stryke.com/subwoofers.html
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post #650 of 2588 Old 10-01-2003, 06:21 AM
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If you were going to order the amplifier from PArtsExpress, then you could order a subwoofer kit that includes the amplifier from them and do the final assembly. It might be possible to overnight ship the kit (expensive... but possible)
here:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...ID=15171&DID=7
or here:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...ID=14736&DID=7
or here:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...ID=14733&DID=7

Good luck... one day remaining...
Joe L.
PS. You might want to get out and get the birthday card now while you are waiting. A backup gift couldn't hurt in case you have a snag in shipping or delivery of your kit. You can always use it for another occasion if the sub kit arrives on time.
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post #651 of 2588 Old 10-01-2003, 09:28 AM
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hello
thanks. for all this info. a card is good idea too.





http://www.speedsound.com/index.html
here where i`m going to buy adire drivers its about 30 min form me, lucky me. on way back i would get roses.
so i will get drvs+amp.
then i got to look for my friend to do the box. or i`ll do it he has a lots of tools.
so i`m done. i have only to think which design .

safaa
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post #652 of 2588 Old 10-01-2003, 12:22 PM
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that store they don`r carry in stock they going to order it for me.
i guess you cann`t hurry a sub,sub don`t come easy.

safaa
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post #653 of 2588 Old 10-02-2003, 10:00 PM
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post #654 of 2588 Old 10-03-2003, 12:03 AM
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Well if you ordered overnight delivery, it looks like you may have a slightly late weekend Birthday present to give away then...
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post #655 of 2588 Old 10-03-2003, 04:06 AM
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Hi Jeff,

I have build the UtopiaOW1 designed by Dennis Murphy - most probable the only pair around. The good thing about this speaker are good dynamic, neutral to warm sound and good clarity. It have good 15 degree off axis response and can sound good even at low volume level. I am using it with Plinius SA100 power amp with entry level DVD/CD player. It sound even better on a friend's system with better amp & highend SACD player.
I am using the same system for music & movie. Depend on the type of music you listen to, you might want a quality speaker to go with your HT system - specially if you are into music DVD. There's nothing more frustrating than watching your favorite unplugged music DVD, seeing all the musicians and instruments and not able to hear them - and that's one of the reason I build the UtopiaOW1.
Well, since I am in NZ, I don't have a chance to compare my speaker to 1801 or MBOW1. As far as I am aware, both 1801 and MB0W1 are now on version 2 or higher. Where as UtopiaOW1 is still on version 1.
Knowing Dennis and Dave, I am sure 1801 will be better sounding, however it will also demand good quality source to drive it. I think MBOW1 will be more forgiving.
The UtopiaOW1 is with me for a year now and I am thinking of replacing it with a 3 way system with higher sensitivity (90db and above) with wider off axis response. Unlike to start this until I finish building my DIY AKSA power amp. Too many thing to build, too little time

Photo of my UtopiaOW1
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/m...view_album.php

Sam
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post #656 of 2588 Old 10-03-2003, 06:41 AM
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Hello Sam,
Thanks for the feedback on the Utopia OW1. So far, you are the only one I have found who has these speakers. I've found lots of info on the Ellis 1801B. I would be using these for music only. Probably Classical, Jazz and Instrumental music. I have a 130wpc Class A Denon DRA1025. For HT, I built the Audax speakers that are presented earlier in this thread. I'm not going to make my final decision until December, so I may still change my mind and look at others.

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post #657 of 2588 Old 10-04-2003, 11:44 PM
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Hi Jeff,

If possible, have a listen to the speaker you intent to build before you make your decision.
Not sure if anyone mention it. Dillon Acoustics recently just make public some of his speaker plan, even if you are not building now, it is worth downloading them.
http://www.dillonacoustics.com/
His design are will know to have wide open sound.

Have fun,
Sam
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post #658 of 2588 Old 10-04-2003, 11:46 PM
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Hi Jeff,

If possible, have a listen to the speaker you intent to build before you make your decision.
Not sure if anyone mention it. Dillon Acoustics recently just make public some of his speaker plan, even if you are not building now, it is worth downloading them.
http://www.dillonacoustics.com/
His design are will know to have wide open sound.

Have fun,
Sam
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post #659 of 2588 Old 10-05-2003, 04:45 PM
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This may be a question better posed to another forum, but there seems to be a good amount of expertise/experience going on in this one so I'll try here first in case anyone has any time.

I'm still struggling with whether or not to do a sonosub or traditional, and am convinced there are some things I just don't understand, so here are my questions:

1) why do ported over sealed? I can't find anything that gives any definitive answer.

2) on the Adire site, it seems to indicate that a higher Q rating (.9xx) is better for home theater, as it gives more thump and movement up into the midrange level, but it seems like most people go for the lowest possible (.5xx). So, which is better?

3) Since some folks in here have built the Audax kit (me included, and love it so far!), would there be a difference in voice matching between a conventional box design vs. a tube design? Joe seems to love his to death, so are others having similar reactions?

- John
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post #660 of 2588 Old 10-05-2003, 05:05 PM
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I'm sorta like you...I don't know what is best. However, my sonosub is almost a year old and it still packs some serious whomp! In certain passages, you can feel the pressure from that thing. I have it turned down a little now. If I ever replace the driver, I'll probaby buy another Dayton DVC or maybe the Adire.
Jeff

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