What Driver for best Subwoofer - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 12-29-2003, 12:09 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm looking to make a sub or two; what is you-all's opinion on what 12/15" subwoofer driver is good quility? I want quility not just SPL. 70% music, 30% movies.

I have looked at these:

Adire's: 12" Shiva Mark IV
Adire's: 15" Tumult
AuraSound: NRT sub 12" NS12-794-4A
AuraSound: NRT sub 15" NS15-992-4A
Peerlees: 12" XLS (Not the Car version, the Home HT version)

I cant find any info outside of AuraSound on their NRT subs, does anyone know about them or heard them. NRT = Neo-Radial Technology

What do you think of these componies? Which makes low distortion and qulity drivers for subs?

J
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post #2 of 25 Old 12-29-2003, 12:21 AM
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Adire's Shiva and Tempest get much praise around here and other forums for DIYers.

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post #3 of 25 Old 12-29-2003, 04:38 AM
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How big a box can you tolerate? What are you going to use to drive it/them? What kind of box are you planing (sealed, ported, bandpass, transmission line, dipole, IB?)

Can you be a bit mroe specific when you say 'quality' bass. Do you want speed, extension, output, all of the above? Unfortunately, some of those things CAN be exclusive of each other until you get in to some larger more complex and expensive designs. If you can sacrifice a little extension (only flat down to 25-28Hz since you are mostly music - doesn't matter) life gets easier.

The Shiva is a good all-around unit. Have not heart the newer Tumult but it looks impressive if you need a seriously high excursion design(small sealed box or dipole)

Also check out the NHT 1295. Lots of existing quality DIY designs out there for this driver - usually in multiples.

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post #4 of 25 Old 12-29-2003, 03:10 PM
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The new Dayton 12" & 15" drivers are nice also. I just got the 15" myself last week.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...D=166910&DID=7

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...D=166912&DID=7
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post #5 of 25 Old 12-29-2003, 06:07 PM
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You mention the Tumult....it's expensive...but in a sealed box with a high power amp, I don't think you'll be dissatisfied. You could also add a couple of 18 inch PR's to get a little more on the bottom end..

Still, as some already mentioned, it depends on just how big a box you or the wife factor can put up with. And if money isn't a problem and you own your house, and have the spot to put one, how about 2 to 4 Tumults in an IB?

I only mention the Tumult because of it's huge excursion...


I have a Tempest in a ported box and love it.
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post #6 of 25 Old 12-29-2003, 06:12 PM
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I have no basis for comparison, because I haven't heard other subs, but I heartily recommend the Adire Tempest. I watched/listened to "The Two Towers" the other evening in a very large, vaulted room and nearly got knocked off the couch when the bad guys were battering down the castle keep door. At the other extreme, its extremely musically, mating well with SET amps (provided I turn it DOWN!).
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post #7 of 25 Old 12-29-2003, 07:12 PM
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Nobody knows more about loudspeakers than the American made Eminence. They load these in M&K subs. A pair of these 12's can produce more bass output than 6 conventional 18's. Go to www.partspexress.com

http://www.partsexpress.com/images/290-570m.jpg

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post #8 of 25 Old 12-29-2003, 09:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone for the info. I will have to look at the other driver too, also the Stryke Av drivers.

Box size: I'm looking at no larger than 5 ft3, sealed box for spead. I dont want to build ported box. Plus, I might see if I can design a box that would allow me to use some sort of mechanism that would allow me to go from sealed to PR. I would use the sealed mode for music and PR for movies.

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post #9 of 25 Old 12-29-2003, 09:47 PM - Thread Starter
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I will be using a QCS 2 channel 200w each bridged to drive the sub. I dont know the model number at this time.
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post #10 of 25 Old 12-29-2003, 10:10 PM
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I don't have too much experience with the speakers you mention; just one of the problems of living in an area that doesn't have any home audio stores. But I thought I would put my $0.02 in. I bought one of the Stryke AV-12 and really enjoy it. However I originally only had 150 watts to it and it sounded good but not great. I now have 350 watts going to it and that made a big improvement.
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post #11 of 25 Old 12-29-2003, 10:27 PM
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A QSC RMX-850 is a clean 850 watts into 4 ohms bridged mono to dual 8 ohm drivers. They make a THX series that is 4000 watts bridged. PE has them for a reasonable price.

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post #12 of 25 Old 12-30-2003, 02:41 AM
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If you want to get a very good driver, check out the JMLab-Focal Audiom 15WX. They are very expensive though ($1k per driver).
I haven't heard anything that could compare to these when listening to music and they are also among the very best when it comes to movies.
Adequate amplification will be required; i.e. not necessarily high power output, but high quality amplification.

Links:
http://www.focal.tm.fr/gb/compo/woofer/a_15wx.htm

http://www.focal.tm.fr/gb/compo/woof...iom%2015WX.pdf

Regards
Kai
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post #13 of 25 Old 12-31-2003, 04:38 AM
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I have the Adire Shiva and have been very impressed. It's in a 16"x48" cylinder, ported. I don't use it with music, unless it's rap :-)

I could be somewhat biased, as I also have Adire's for the other 7 speakers in the HT.
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post #14 of 25 Old 12-31-2003, 04:42 AM
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Careful there. By definition, a passive radiator design is a variation of a ported design. To say you don't want ported but want PR is a contradiction. Second, for the life of me I can't figure out how you could possibly have a unit be both sealed and PR at the same time and switchable.

5 cubic feet is not that small a cabinet. It all depends on how much footprint you design in. You should be able to get decent extension (for HT mode) and output from a sealed system of that size with a good driver. It will just take a bit more power.

You can also check out the Crown MT 600. This bridges out to around 900W into 4 ohms and can be had for around $550. Just have to make sure you have a way to feed it balanced input.

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post #15 of 25 Old 12-31-2003, 10:01 AM
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Stryke AV15, best bang for buck if that's what interests you.

Next projector will have LEDs, >=1080 res, >=10 bit color, >14bit CR, >9 bit ANSI CR, >=120Hz, >16ft.L on 12ft 2.35:1 screen, <$12bit price

My 1st line array design

My ongoing Line Array Design
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post #16 of 25 Old 12-31-2003, 10:13 AM
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quote
Careful there. By definition, a passive radiator design is a variation of a ported design. To say you don't want ported but want PR is a contradiction. Second, for the life of me I can't figure out how you could possibly have a unit be both sealed and PR at the same time and switchable.


If you make the whole thing a tube with the main driver on the
bottom, and a removable PR on the other end, you can remove the
PR and replace it with a cover. That way you can test both and see
which you like best. Sort of like a coffee can with two tops. One with
a PR in it, and the other without.

I happen to like the Tumult driver. As long as you have lots of power
available to drive it.
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post #17 of 25 Old 12-31-2003, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
If you make the whole thing a tube with the main driver on the
That will only work if you lay the tube on it's side. Most PRs are too heavy to be mounted horizontally.

-Robert
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post #18 of 25 Old 01-01-2004, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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I only say PR because in my mind (since I have not mad one yet) I find it easyer to tune a PR (adding or removing wight to it) easyer then a vent). It also only a thought to make a PR box. 90% sure I will only make a sealed box.

I am thinking of making the sealed box my satelites speaker stands. My starting base is, inside dimensions 14.5"w x 36.5"H x 18-20"D. That is 5.5cf to 6.1cf; it leaves room for brasing and these dimensions are not final.
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post #19 of 25 Old 01-02-2004, 04:57 AM
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understand totally about the ease of making changes to the tuning. Have you checked out these folks? They have an interesting variable tuning system that was oringinally developed for car/truck systems. They also have some other interesting designs that are supposed to be quite nice.


www.decware.com

Here is a drawing of the 'deathbox' variable design.

http://www.decware.com/dbk212.gif

For pre-tuned designs with plans available or cabinets completed check out

House Wrecker

and the

Wicked One

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post #20 of 25 Old 01-03-2004, 07:45 AM
 
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Hi guys,

Quote:
By definition, a passive radiator design is a variation of a ported design.


What do you mean by "variation"? The response of a passive radiator system is similar to that of a ported system using the same driver.

However, the cutoff (-3dB) frequency is slightly higher, and the cutoff slope is deeper, mostly due to the presence of a "notch" in the frequency response corresponding to the passive radiator's resonance frequency.

This notch is normally located far outside of the passband of the system, and therefore usually of little audible significance. The larger the passive radiator, the lower the passive radiator's resonance frequency (for the same target Fb), and the further the notch is out of the passband.

Better driver stability below fB due to increased damping on the driver below fB.

Quote:
To say you don't want ported but want PR is a contradiction.


Perhaps he was talking about port noise.Pipe resonances and port standing waves are non-existent because there are no ports or vents in this system.
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post #21 of 25 Old 01-03-2004, 10:23 PM
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I used a Dayton 15" DVC which is very similar to the Adire Tempest but a little less expensive. I build a cylinder sub using a 250w amp. See it here
http://europa70.tripod.com/index001.htm
jeff

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post #22 of 25 Old 01-04-2004, 06:53 AM
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My point was that ONLY with a sealed system do you have static air resistance in the cabinet. The PR designs allow some 'flexure' to the air. The ported systems allow changes in the amount of air in the cabinet (hence the port noise).

You can also tune a PR system as you can a ported or bandbass system. The only way to 'tune' a sealed system is by changing the amount and density of the stuffing (or building a whole new box!). The benefit of a sealed system is much better control over the excursion of the driver. One exception is the transmission line design where the backwave of the line is used to damp the driver most where it is most likely to unload itself (it's free air resonant freqency). Unfortunately, these tend to be VERY large and complex to build.

All have their place. If he is concerned about port noise, there are other ways to get around that (slot loading, rear porting, flared ports, multiple large ports, etc.).

I am serious...and don't call me Shirley.
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post #23 of 25 Old 01-04-2004, 07:21 AM
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I just completed a sub using the Adire Audio Tumult 15" driver. I am able to get 105 dB SPL @ 20 Hz in my room with a sealed 3.5 cu ft box and external equalization. Details in the link, below.

http://home.mn.rr.com/hometheater/tumult.htm

I just put up this website, let me know what you think!

I did look at all the options, and decided I could get away with a simple sealed enclosure.
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post #24 of 25 Old 01-04-2004, 07:42 AM
 
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Very nice.Distortion levels should be extremely low given that the maximum linear excursion, especially in that size enclosure, isn't exactly being put to the test.

Although, if I had a Tumult in my hands, I would definitely use Pr's.BTW, what type of amplification are you using?

A subwoofer that I completed a few weeks ago is an 8 cubic foot sealed Tempest in a bessel alignment.All my enclosures are incredibly rigid, and the total weight for my Tempest is around 320 pounds! Lets just say that this is light weight compared to my bigger subwoofers.:D More than 1.5 times as heavy as a B4+.

I'm going to purchase a good digital camera soon(around 6 megapixels or so), as my current camera is a bit crap.:)

Good work.

Regards
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post #25 of 25 Old 01-04-2004, 07:56 AM
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The distortion is very low, subjectively. The magnet structure on this driver is very linear. I'll try and measure the distortion with MLSSA.

The amplifier is a Behringer Europower 2500, also described here.

http://home.mn.rr.com/hometheater/Beh2500.htm

Seems to be a nice amp for a good price.

Regards,
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