Coax surge protection,which one of these would you get? - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 76 Old 04-03-2011, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by oppopioneer View Post

Has it ever dawned on you that these companies have budget concerns and won't recommend a higher end more expensive model? Verizon works with and has a contract with TII, I doubt Verizon would want TII to have to install more expensive higher end units that Verizon has to pay for, don't be naive.

Has it ever dawned on you that companies do not "recommend devices" based solely on their budget concerns. Products must meet their specifications before they even talk pricing. The cable companies will often send an engineer to personally witness the tests performed on a product they are considering, and compare that data with the original data we sent them. Then they will request a few "sample units" to put through their own in house testing. This is after we have also received certifications from places like Cablelabs, UL, CSA, and FCC compliance testing labs.

All of this happens long before costs are discussed. They do not just look at a data sheet and say "That looks good and the price is right we'll take a thousand".

The tiresome questions you ask coupled with your "computer wont let you open a PDF" shows you probably really do not understand what you are asking or the answers you are receiving anyway. So you might as well just buy whatever one that makes you feel better and put this four year old thread back in the grave where you found it.

A 'phile and his money are soon parted...
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post #62 of 76 Old 04-03-2011, 06:59 AM
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Well if you don't like it then don't come here, or you can put me on block/ignore and not see my posts, I'll still come here and I'll ask whatever questions I want so either put me on ignore or continue to let my questions bother you as to why I just ask questions about TII products. This along with other website forums is about asking questions, sharing of information and learning, the surge protector thread was a great example a lot of us actually learning a lot, some heated debates and we even got the ceo of SurgeX to post there and question him and make him provide information on his products.

And when other members here and on other websites have said that it should be 3 GHz mininum for CATV and then you say 1 GHz will be sufficient because the company you work for that uses it shows a conflict of interest on your part, I'll trust the other members over you, they're not profiting from it. Plus there are many other coaxial surge protectors that can handle more powerful surges compared to the TII model, I'm not just talking about GHz rating, my #1 concern is surge protection and highest surge rating first.
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post #63 of 76 Old 04-03-2011, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oppopioneer View Post
And when other members here and on other websites have said that it should be 3 GHz mininum for CATV and then you say 1 GHz will be sufficient because the company you work for that uses it shows a conflict of interest on your part, I'll trust the other members over you, they're not profiting from it.
I am not intending to knock the other members here but...

Do these "other members here and on other websites" work for companies that supply the cable TV industry with products and know their specifications?

Have the "other members here and on other websites" personally tested any of the devices they recommend to insure they meet their advertised specifications?

I on the other hand have not recommended any products I have not personally tested and know meets it's advertised specifications and the specifications required by cable TV companies.

I never once said to buy my companies products nor ever mentioned my company by name.

The fact is I recommended the TII instead of my companies device to avoid even the slightest appearance of a conflict of interest.

Did the ceo of SurgeX do the same?
No conflict of interest there, and I am sure he is not hoping to profit from posting on message boards huh?

A 'phile and his money are soon parted...
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post #64 of 76 Old 04-03-2011, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11001011 View Post

I am not intending to knock the other members here but...

Do these "other members here and on other websites" work for companies that supply the cable TV industry with products and know their specifications?

Have the "other members here and on other websites" personally tested any of the devices they recommend to insure they meet their advertised specifications?

I on the other hand have not recommended any products I have not personally tested and know meets it's advertised specifications and the specifications required by cable TV companies.

I never once said to buy my companies products nor ever mentioned my company by name.

The fact is I recommended the TII instead of my companies device to avoid even the slightest appearance of a conflict of interest.

Did the ceo of SurgeX do the same?
No conflict of interest there, and I am sure he is not hoping to profit from posting on message boards huh?

See, having these discussions we can clarify any misunderstandings...

Ok, no, the members I talked to are not working for any of these companies and don't work for any companies that have contracts with those companies.

The ceo of SurgeX posted on that forum after a month of people questioning and hammering his product with no evidence to back up their claims, he took the time to provide information people needed, he posted his own personal number for anyone to contact him and he would personally explain to them how his products work, now if we can get the ceo of TII here to answer questions he might convince me and some others to purchase his products.

But, you are getting pretty defensive about this TII product, there are quite a few other coaxial surge protectors out there that not only have much higher GHz ratings but higher surge protection ratings, so my question is are those units designed for Triple Play (CATV, Internet, Phone) or are they for radio frequencies and radio towers?
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post #65 of 76 Old 04-03-2011, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oppopioneer View Post

The ceo of SurgeX...he took the time to provide information people needed...

Well, actually he didn't answer the questions put to him in the thread, but he did offer to connect anybody with a question to his engineers. But lets not get bogged down in that again. The point was that 11001011 is not flogging his own product. He is offering his expert opinion that a competitor's product is suitable for your needs.
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post #66 of 76 Old 04-03-2011, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oppopioneer View Post

...are those units designed for Triple Play (CATV, Internet, Phone) or are they for radio frequencies and radio towers?

They are designed for radio. They will work just fine for your purposes. They are just overkill for cable. If you go with one of them, make sure you get one with the appropriate connectors. They come in several flavors. You will probably want F-connectors.

FWIW gas discharge tube devices are all pretty similar. The parameters may vary a bit depending on the application, but they are really simple, just a tube filled with gas that ionizes under higher than normal voltages and essentially short circuits the center conductor to the shield until the surge dissipates. The difference between <0.1 dB insertion loss and 0.066 dB insertion loss is insignificant if you do the math. The fact that a given device is designed for 6 GHz is irrelevant because your application is unlikely to require more than 1 GHz. And the difference in surge current is irrelevant because you are unlikely to see 20KA on the center conductor unless perhaps you have an antenna on a mast that suffers a direct hit from lightning. Pay $20 bucks or so for something like a TII 212 or $100 bucks or more for something else that gives you a bit more peace of mind. It is up to you. Pick something and let us know how it works out.
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post #67 of 76 Old 04-03-2011, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Colm View Post

They are designed for radio. They will work just fine for your purposes. They are just overkill for cable. If you go with one of them, make sure you get one with the appropriate connectors. They come in several flavors. You will probably want F-connectors.

FWIW gas discharge tube devices are all pretty similar. The parameters may vary a bit depending on the application, but they are really simple, just a tube filled with gas that ionizes under higher than normal voltages and essentially short circuits the center conductor to the shield. The difference between <0.1 dB insertion loss and 0.066 dB insertion loss is insignificant if you do the math. The fact that a given device is designed for 6 GHz is irrelevant because your application doesn't require more than 1 GHz. And the difference in surge current is irrelevant because you are unlikely to see 20KA on the center conductor unless perhaps you have an antenna on a mast that suffers a direct hit from lightning. Pay $20 bucks or so for something like a TII 212 or $100 bucks or more for something else that gives you a bit more peace of mind. It is up to you.

Ok thank you...

So if I decide to go with the Citel P8AX Series to protect my Comcast coaxial it won't ****** or stunt it?

http://www.citel.us/coaxial_types_gas_tubes.html
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post #68 of 76 Old 04-03-2011, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by oppopioneer View Post

So if I decide to go with the Citel P8AX Series to protect my Comcast coaxial it won't ****** or stunt it?

Other than the minimal insertion loss and return loss, which is pretty much unavoidable no matter which unit you chose, you shouldn't see any measurable effect. Should be no visible effect. The P8AX09 would be the one to go with. It has the lowest breakdown voltage. The others are designed for higher power radio transmitters and trade off breakdown voltage for the amount of transmitter power they can handle.
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post #69 of 76 Old 04-03-2011, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Colm View Post

Other than the minimal insertion loss and return loss, which is pretty much unavoidable no matter which unit you chose, you shouldn't see any measurable effect. Should be no visible effect. The P8AX09 would be the one to go with. It has the lowest breakdown voltage. The others are designed for higher power radio transmitters and trade off breakdown voltage for the amount of transmitter power they can handle.

Noted, thank you.
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post #70 of 76 Old 04-15-2011, 09:39 AM
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I have a coaxial grounding question and concern...

I have Comcast Triple Play- (CATV, Internet, Phone) and I don't believe the Comcast technician properly grounded the coaxial. There is a F to F ground block, but the copper wire from it is attached straight across to a metal pipe and screwed, the metal pipe isn't grounded into the ground it's attached to the house. There is nothing that goes into the ground.
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post #71 of 76 Old 04-16-2011, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oppopioneer View Post
I have a coaxial grounding question and concern...

I have Comcast Triple Play- (CATV, Internet, Phone) and I don't believe the Comcast technician properly grounded the coaxial. There is a F to F ground block, but the copper wire from it is attached straight across to a metal pipe and screwed, the metal pipe isn't grounded into the ground it's attached to the house. There is nothing that goes into the ground.
I'd say you found an obvious grounding issue. Note that it wouldn't matter if this pipe DID go into the ground as it still wouldn't be to code. That block needs to clamp to the main house ground, which should be right by the location where the cable runs into the house. If not, have them run a new line.
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post #72 of 76 Old 06-21-2013, 11:42 AM
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All thought MOV's (Metal Oxide varisistors) Are great.

I find that High Speed Gas Units offer Faster Switching Hence Better Protection.

http://www.pccables.com/02401.html
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post #73 of 76 Old 06-21-2013, 12:50 PM
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New to this thread and have a question about my need for coax surge protection. I have had equipment damage in the past. A tree trimming company shorted two power lines on the main highway and caused many thousands of dollars of damage on our side of the street. As a result I have had installed surge protectors in our electric service panel and all of my valuable equipment runs with UPS battery backup. I get my TV, phone, and Internet from a FiOS fiber so I know that it is not susceptible to lightning surge. However, the fiber signal goes coax at a splitter that is itself grounded outside.

Could a surge from a nearby lightning strike come up the ground wire and damage house coax wiring or connected equipment?

Would the coax surge protectors being discussed offer protection from surges up the ground wire?
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post #74 of 76 Old 06-21-2013, 01:10 PM
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A ground wire is just that.
It take additional power and Shunts it to the Ground.

Many Folks make a Mistake and do not Ground the Shield of Coax.

In My Experience the more places you take the Shield to Ground the Better the Protection of the Equipment.

One could use a Ground Block Like listed here.

http://www.amazon.com/LRC-GB81BS-F-Ground-Block/dp/B004GUF6MC
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post #75 of 76 Old 06-21-2013, 04:27 PM
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Could a surge from a nearby lightning strike come up the ground wire and damage house coax wiring or connected equipment?
If you have a proper grounding electrode system for the AC, and the coax shield is bonded to it, ground potential rise from a lightning strike or utility fault won't cause a problem. The AC neutral is bonded to the ground at the service entrance, everything just floats relative to whatever the ground potential is.
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post #76 of 76 Old 06-21-2013, 07:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWalker View Post

New to this thread and have a question about my need for coax surge protection. I have had equipment damage in the past. A tree trimming company shorted two power lines on the main highway and caused many thousands of dollars of damage on our side of the street. As a result I have had installed surge protectors in our electric service panel and all of my valuable equipment runs with UPS battery backup. I get my TV, phone, and Internet from a FiOS fiber so I know that it is not susceptible to lightning surge. However, the fiber signal goes coax at a splitter that is itself grounded outside.

Could a surge from a nearby lightning strike come up the ground wire and damage house coax wiring or connected equipment?

Would the coax surge protectors being discussed offer protection from surges up the ground wire?
Best company if you want good surge/static protection equipment, not just a ground block to connect to a ground rod http://www.l-com.com/surge-protector
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