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post #1 of 48 Old 02-27-2007, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys I am a new member so I am probably in the wrong forum for this but I just wanted to know if anyone has any reviews on Monster clean power or those powerstations that Monster claims protect your gear better and send better signals to improve picture and sound quality? Is this true or even worth the money? If these powerstations really do help...is there other companies besides Monster that sell them?

Thnx a bunch for your time
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post #2 of 48 Old 02-27-2007, 05:07 PM
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Short answer No. You dont need them.
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post #3 of 48 Old 02-27-2007, 05:25 PM
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oh no....the Monster debate could start People will post they hear a difference, others will post they are being scammed.

My opinion....(like it matters but Im bored so here it is )

Monster is a marketing company like Bose, they convince the average Joe that he needs their products because they "improve" sound. Gimicks in stores convince the average Joe its true. Of course its a Gimick and a scam to convince you to buy WAY overpriced products that dont improve anything.

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post #4 of 48 Old 02-27-2007, 05:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for your opinions guys so really any surge protector will do job? cause it seems monster is trying to tell you that the regular sure protector cant.
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post #5 of 48 Old 02-27-2007, 05:59 PM
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Actually, neither can really protect your gear. "$100,000 Surge Protection Warranty"?? lol, have you ever heard about people trying to collect? You can't collect.


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cause it seems monster is trying to tell you that the regular sure protector cant.

Yep, that is their marketing strategy.

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post #6 of 48 Old 03-07-2007, 10:11 AM
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I got sucked into the monster scheme when I worked at FS and sold it. As for warranty I had issued where I wrecked a xbox component cable sent it and got it back no problems and quick...
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post #7 of 48 Old 03-07-2007, 10:29 AM
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Sure. That $20 outlet strip/firestarter from Lowe's will do the trick just the same.

The First Clarke Law states, 'If an elderly but distinguished scientist says that something is possible he is almost certainly right, but if he says that it is impossible he is very probably wrong.'
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post #8 of 48 Old 03-08-2007, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilkenzo86 View Post

Hey guys I am a new member so I am probably in the wrong forum for this but I just wanted to know if anyone has any reviews on Monster clean power or those powerstations that Monster claims protect your gear better and send better signals to improve picture and sound quality? Is this true or even worth the money? If these powerstations really do help...is there other companies besides Monster that sell them?

Thnx a bunch for your time

the only time i could ever see the need for one is if you live in an old house with voltage problems, but even then any voltage stabalizer will do.
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post #9 of 48 Old 03-09-2007, 10:29 AM
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IMO, power conditioner (in general) have a time and a place, but the NECESSITY for most people is vastly overstated.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #10 of 48 Old 03-10-2007, 01:15 AM
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I don't know about all that... Power can have noise - depending on what you have hooked up on the same system. You can hear faint radio signals while playing CDs on some systems if you play the CD really loud and put your ear very close to the speaker . Its not night and day - but for people who want to pay more, it is better. The thing I am referring to here is isolation. There are several things that Monster - and other power conditioning systems by other companies, can do. Another is maintaining an even 120 volt power supply even if the power is at 110 or other voltage. Some systems may exhibit slight loss of quality when voltage isn't perfect. There are some audiophiles (few) who run their amps off batteries because of this. I am more into audio than video - don't know exactly what this will do with a plasma (which I would suspect would have fairly good voltage regulation inside it already), but for audio I can tell you for 100% sure that if you have an extremely high quality system you will get #1) a lower noise floor, #2) better isolation of components electrically from eachother, #3) voltage regulation if the particular piece of hardware offers that (not all do), #4) higher Joule protection than most power strips.

If you have a friend who has one, borrow it, plug everything in, see if you notice a difference... Oh - and I don't know if the ones that cost 200 or less will really do anything except some isolation and the higher Joule rating, you've got to spend more than that to really get clean power.

One test - without such a device run your system, plug a vacuum cleaner into the same wall socket, then run the system + vacuum cleaner (or a bank of fluorescent lightbulbs - those introduce tons of noise into electricity) and then do that test again with all your electronics plugged into a power controller thingy. Big difference!

You might say you wouldn't run a vacuum cleaner while watching a DVD, and that is fine - this is just an example that it is really doing something.

Make sure your system has many bucks spent elsewhere first, but if you've got budget for something like this and know from the outset that it will bring marginal improvement, then go for it!

Again - no knowledge of effect on Plasma TVs, but for high-class audio it definitely helps!!!!
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post #11 of 48 Old 03-10-2007, 01:17 AM
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If you do go with a 'power strip' get Tripp Lite. Much better than most others! (much higher Joule rating, good build quality)
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post #12 of 48 Old 03-10-2007, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightminer View Post

One test - without such a device run your system, plug a vacuum cleaner into the same wall socket, then run the system + vacuum cleaner (or a bank of fluorescent lightbulbs - those introduce tons of noise into electricity) and then do that test again with all your electronics plugged into a power controller thingy. Big difference!

You might say you wouldn't run a vacuum cleaner while watching a DVD, and that is fine - this is just an example that it is really doing something.

Yes, a perfect example of fixing something that isn't a real problem. Sure it might do something if the problem exists, but like you say, if you are not running the vacuum at the time of critical listening, is it really a problem? IMO, no.

I think nobody doubts these gadgets CAN do something, but the real question is will it be of benefit to YOU (figuratively speaking) - in your house, with your gear?

I have frequent voltage sags of several volts and hear absolutely NO effect in my system and see absolutely NO effects on any of my TVs, a plasma set included.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #13 of 48 Old 03-10-2007, 07:15 AM
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I don't know about all that... Power can have noise - depending on what you have hooked up on the same system. You can hear faint radio signals while playing CDs on some systems if you play the CD really loud and put your ear very close to the speaker

So, does the signal enter through the power lines or via an input on of the components? If you're cranking your system and put your ears to the speaker, how is it considered a faint radio signal?

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Another is maintaining an even 120 volt power supply even if the power is at 110 or other voltage. Some systems may exhibit slight loss of quality when voltage isn't perfect.

Well, who says it's supposed to be a dead even 120 volts? The power that's delivered to you is a product and there's a normal variance with that that's permissible. Frankly, if you've bought something that is that dependent upon a rock steady voltage and can't tolerate normal swings, that is evidence that the person or company making the device didn't take proper care.

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One test - without such a device run your system, plug a vacuum cleaner into the same wall socket, then run the system + vacuum cleaner (or a bank of fluorescent lightbulbs - those introduce tons of noise into electricity) and then do that test again with all your electronics plugged into a power controller thingy. Big difference!

Of course, they also emmanate RFI and EMI into the air. Maybe it's a good idea to listen and watch when the vacuum isn't running.

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #14 of 48 Old 03-10-2007, 10:20 PM
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Power Conditioning is just too much of a generic term. Just to clarify most of the "Power" equipment falls into a couple of groups: Surge Suppressors, Voltage Regulators, Filters, Isolation Transformer Power Conditioners, and Uninteruptable Power Supplies. Many times "Power" equipment will incorporate more than of of these into a single device.

Surge Suppressors are not designed to do anything until a large transient or spike comes down the power line. Take a look at any surge suppressor that you have it will include some terminology about UL1449. What this means is that until a spike of 330VAC or higher comes along your surge suppressor does nothing and this is by design. When that 330VAC or higher spike does come along the suppressor goes into action and diverts the spike to ground. They do nothing more and nothing less. Higher joule rating mean they added an additional 3 cent metal oxide varistor to the design, don't get suckered by joule ratings.

Voltage Regulators do exactly what their name says, they regulate voltage. But, modern electronics do not need their input voltage regulated because an overwhelming majority of modern electronics have switch mode power supplies SMPS. The SMPS in and of itself regulates the DC voltage on the output side because it "Gulps" AC power. Modern electronics run just fine from about 90 - 130 volts AC. Voltage and current have an inverse relationship so if you plug your voltmeter into the wall you will probably see somewhere right around 120VAC the more stuff you plug into that outlet the more current you will draw and the voltage will go down by definition. The really ugly part about voltge regulators is most of them when they regulate voltage they induce a ton of noise onto the power line.

Filters can be hit or miss, if the guy who designed the filter gets lucky and comes close to matching the impedence in the power line running in your home then they can eliminate some noise, if there is a large impedence mis-match the filter will do a band-pass shift and actually induce more noise that using nothing at all. Have you ever asked yourself where does the noise go that is being filtered away? Well it goes to ground and this noise can be mesured as a voltage between neutral and ground, so really all you have done is converted one type of electrical noise to another type.

Isolation Transformers, specifically torroidal low impedence transformers with a neutral to ground bond on the secondary of the transformer is the most effective power conditioner/protector you can buy. These products usually include surge and filtration functionality without the pitfalls of non-transformer products. The beauty of the transformer is you have a physical disconnect between the primary of the transformer and the secondary of the transformer. This being the case you are allow by UL to bond the neutral to ground on the secondary (Do this without a transformer and death will be certain). Because of this bond there is a know impedence for the filter to be designed to. They cost alot of money because transformers aren't cheap. I use power conditioners on all my stuff.

Uninterruptible power supplies are great when the power goes out but most do nothing when the power is on but offer rudimentary surge suppression. With UPS products just like everything else you don't always get what you pay for. Battery backup does not equal power conditioning.

If your interested in reading more about power quality I would recommend reading Surges Sags andSpike-Protecting your Personal Computer from Electrical Power Problems by Mark Waller. Lots of good info there not the marketing hype on the back of the box stuff. Just to be sure I am not Mr. Waller and I cringe every time I see someone buy a $100 surge suppressor.
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post #15 of 48 Old 03-11-2007, 12:10 AM
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I can add more tomorrow, but check out this review:

http://www.avrev.com/equip/monsterhts3500/index.html

and search for

Monster Reference PowerCenter HTS 3500 MKII

on Amazon and read the 37 reviews - only one person didn't notice a difference. I have the 3500 non-MKII - and note that this one was from before Monster started really getting into the voltage regulation game so again what we are mostly looking at here is lower noise floor due to signal isolation and EMI/RFI filtering. I agree/recognize already that the reviewer could be biased, and maybe all 36 of those people aren't trained to look scientifically at the issues at hand - however, when something is nonsense it does sometimes show up in Amazon reviews...
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post #16 of 48 Old 03-11-2007, 12:23 AM
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This guy doesn't seem terribly biased

http://www.moesrealm.com/hometheater..._hts_3500.html

he was really just looking to plug everything into one place, but he noticed a difference. Is Moe getting kickbacks from Monster? Somehow I don't think so... But, maybe!

And here are 30 more people, who mostly think it does make their systems better:

http://www.audioreview.com/cat/other...5_5824crx.aspx

Many were skeptical and mostly wanted surge protection and a well-built device and were genuinely surprised at the results!

Oh - and I claimed not to know anything about its effect on video - people are saying various things about blacks and color depth and whatever is getting better. I have a TH-42PHD9UK - perhaps tomorrow I will unplug it and try it in the wall and see if I can see a difference.
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post #17 of 48 Old 03-12-2007, 06:46 AM
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While you're reading, http://www.avrev.com/equip/monsterhts3500/index.html note that it's pretty obvious the author has existing grounding problems with his equipment. Rather than attempt to get the cable ground right to begin with, which has plagued his system all along resulting in noise, hums, poor video quality, etc. he has resorted to band aids. And this person is paid to review? He's like the person who keeps going to the doctor to get prescriptions for pain, each time marvelling at how this pill or that made him feel better, when the ready solution was to take the stone out of his shoe.

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post #18 of 48 Old 03-12-2007, 12:06 PM
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why it might not help in all instances, I difinenlty think it wouldn't hurt to use one...
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post #19 of 48 Old 03-16-2007, 02:26 PM
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Man- I've been on the fence w/ these things for a month!
If anything- they offer a convient cord management system.
I went to my local high end home theater store & they swear by them.
I have friends who think they are a must- and other friends who have had these things add noise!
Now that monster "monster" w' the 3 meters does have the HT cool factor locked up but who wants those lights blasing you in the face while viewing a movie?
As an example- the sales slug got out his trusty sales meter & plugged it into the wall- no protection, filtering, etc. Lots of static noise emitting from his "tool".
Then he steps over to the Monster, then the Panamax & plugs them in. Dead quiet. I can see where that would sway the buyer but I'm still skeptical.
I see a need for surge protection but doub't any of these contraptions would react quickly enough to protect anything. I've used the Lowes $20.00 strips before but after I had one catch fire in my office connected to my computer- I'd rather be plugged into a wall socket!
I may buy the one at Best Buy & do a demo in my home to see if there is any difference in AV. They have a 30 day no questions asked return policy.
It is hard to resist the cool factor w/ all those lights & meters though.


I do have plans for a battery back-up/surge 1000va on my JVC HD-ILA. I've heard they do well to protect the bulb in event of PF. We usually get 2-3 of those per summer & always when the TV is on. Costco has one w/ digital read-out for $99.00 for computer or HT. Junk?
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post #20 of 48 Old 03-19-2007, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steves55 View Post

As an example- the sales slug got out his trusty sales meter & plugged it into the wall- no protection, filtering, etc. Lots of static noise emitting from his "tool". Then he steps over to the Monster, then the Panamax & plugs them in. Dead quiet. I can see where that would sway the buyer but I'm still skeptical.

Some people can only learn one way--the hard way.

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I see a need for surge protection but doub't any of these contraptions would react quickly enough to protect anything. I've used the Lowes $20.00 strips before but after I had one catch fire in my office connected to my computer- I'd rather be plugged into a wall socket!

You've answered your own question about that one. The crappy strips are in fact crappy strips, typically fuse-based which cannot blow fast enough to protect anything. Something else will bear the brunt prior to the fuse melting.

Quote:


I do have plans for a battery back-up/surge 1000va on my JVC HD-ILA. I've heard they do well to protect the bulb in event of PF. We usually get 2-3 of those per summer & always when the TV is on. Costco has one w/ digital read-out for $99.00 for computer or HT. Junk?

That's a good idea actually.

The First Clarke Law states, 'If an elderly but distinguished scientist says that something is possible he is almost certainly right, but if he says that it is impossible he is very probably wrong.'
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post #21 of 48 Old 09-06-2007, 07:27 PM
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To WhoAreU99 - you stated "Yes, a perfect example of fixing something that isn't a real problem."

So - today - having completely forgotten about this thread - I was at home right around 5 and there were some cleaning folks here finishing cleaning my house and I was watching TV and BLAM, our of nowhere, the one lady started vacuuming my living room. Right there with me watching TV on the couch.

Ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaa.... I must have laughed for at least 10 minutes, remembering this thread.

My plasma looked great. Even with the Vacuum cleaner on. Thanks HTS3500.

Lightminer
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post #22 of 48 Old 09-07-2007, 10:29 AM
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LOL! How did it sound?

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post #23 of 48 Old 09-07-2007, 10:41 AM
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Quote:


why it might not help in all instances, I difinenlty think it wouldn't hurt to use one...

Very true but in most cases it doesnt help. As long as people understand that a good percentage of time this is a waste of money then great. No problem, I waste my money gambling so we all have our vices

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post #24 of 48 Old 09-12-2007, 12:02 PM
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So, what do you really need? Just plug everything into the wall with something that adds receptacles and nothing more?
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post #25 of 48 Old 09-12-2007, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bushwompa View Post

So, what do you really need? Just plug everything into the wall with something that adds receptacles and nothing more?

that's what i'd like to know. i added a $30 Acoustic Reseach strip to the back of my armoire if for nothing more than to have convinient access to multiple sockets. i didn't fool myself into thinking that it would protect or improve anything, but i somehow trusted it more than the $20 lowes strip. trouble is, i have one outlet behind my AV gear and 6 devices plugged into it (8 if you count the power for the actual panel itself and tiny accent lights in the mantel) of course, not all are active at one time, and some draw very little power, but i can't help but think there's a better way. if i added a "conditioner" from Pure AV or Monster, i have the feeling that i basically spent $200+ on an expensive power strip.
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post #26 of 48 Old 09-13-2007, 05:33 PM
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You should have a surge protector at every outlet where you have equipment pluged in. The local power company web site will have info on what to look for in a surge protector or you can compare the specs on the better Tripp Lite and Panamax products or search the net.

You should consider, especially if you have major lightning and power line issues a whole house protector and surege protection for incomming signal lines as well. Unless you live in a third world part of North America you should not need a power line conditioner.

These days most hard drives will not die because of abrupt shut down, so an UPS for your PC if you need data protection and for you projector/display if lamps are expensive.

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post #27 of 48 Old 09-14-2007, 10:02 AM
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Well, I ended up doing two things. I couldn't justify the $250 SM surge suppressor, even though it is superior. I did pick up a Monster Power 1100 surge protector and power line conditioner for $148 at Visions. It comes with a $300,000 connected equipment limited warranty, lots of pretty lights and gold connectors, and pretty color coded labels for connecting the equipment. It's regularly a $300CND item. I am giving it a try, but I am debating returning it as I have this feeling that I just bought a bunch of marketing BS. It is a substantial piece however, and I suppose I could always use it as a morning star when the zombies come.

I also bought a $20 surge suppressor at Costco that comes with a $100,000 connected equipment limited warranty. Although it would not be as good a weapon when the zombies come, it may very well do as good a job at protecting my equipment.
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post #28 of 48 Old 09-14-2007, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Actually, neither can really protect your gear. "$100,000 Surge Protection Warranty"?? lol, have you ever heard about people trying to collect? You can't collect.




Yep, that is their marketing strategy.

i'm not sure you understand teh warranty. No one that buys a 250 dollar surge protector is actually going to have a 100,000 dollar system.
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post #29 of 48 Old 09-14-2007, 11:52 AM
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i'm not sure you understand teh warranty. No one that buys a 250 dollar surge protector is actually going to have a 100,000 dollar system.

maybe if your house burns down as a result of it's failure?
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post #30 of 48 Old 10-16-2008, 09:39 AM
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To the top.


I wanna hear more about this.

Who has got one of these?
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