New Ruling Confirms Copying DVDs is Illegal - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 491 Old 10-31-2012, 05:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Recently the U.S. Copyright Office in response to a request to provide a copy exemption for consumers wanting to watch legally-owned DVDs on non-disc devices, has ruled it's illegal to bypass copy-protection in order to make digital copies for playback on hard drives, tablets, phones, and non-disc devices.


The DVD Copy Control Association was able to argue that when a consumer purchases a DVD, they only have the rights to play that DVD. In essence this ruling shuts down the legal availability of software/hardware devices that allow you to copy a DVD onto hard drives.
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“While copyright owners are taking tentative steps to link motion pictures purchased on DVD to digital versions playable on new devices [UltraViolet and other digital copy initiatives], there is no indication that this program — if successful and sustainable — would apply retroactively to the millions of DVDs already lawfully owned by consumers and purchased when DVD was the only format available to them,” Public Knowledge argued.

Public Advocacy group Public Knowledge argued legal DVD owners should be able to bypass the Content Scrambling System (CSS) in order to “space shift” content to other devices because emerging technologies, such as tablets, do not come with disc drives.
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“DVD CCA alleges that the proposed exemption would harm the market for works distributed in the DVD medium as well as that for works offered in other digital media, explaining that the proposed exemption would displace sales from existing and forthcoming digital offerings that the DMCA was meant to encourage and create ‘public confusion’ as to what is permitted activity,” the ruling reads.

So what was Public Knowledge’s Michael Weinberg response to this ruling?
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“ridiculous that such activity is illegal.”

Keep in mind this ruling doesn't apply to legal Disc-to-Digital copy options out there, such as Ultraviolet and other services. So what do you think?



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post #2 of 491 Old 11-01-2012, 07:48 AM
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Is this saying that I can't take the 300 DVD's I have legal bought and the 80+ BR that I have legal bought and put them on a hard drive for ease of use? If so then that really sucks.

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post #3 of 491 Old 11-01-2012, 07:59 AM
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Yeah, I'm going to delete all my rips right now. MPAA/RIAA hold your breath. rolleyes.gif
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post #4 of 491 Old 11-01-2012, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

Is this saying that I can't take the 300 DVD's I have legal bought and the 80+ BR that I have legal bought and put them on a hard drive for ease of use? If so then that really sucks.


Yes, MIkeDuke. That is exactly what they are saying. Instead of innovating to usher in new avenues for entertainment, the content providers would rather protect the current outdated and limiting business model, which is lucrative for them but denies consumers options.

 

As a free market capitalist, I'm all for entrepreneurs making as much money as the market will allow. However, I am against using the court system as bludgeon against citizens who are not breaking the law. The purpose of CSS is to prevent unscrupulous individuals from making copies of copyrighted material for the purpose of resale. That individual did not risk their capital or invest their labor to produce the product and thus have no right to profit from the labor of others. However, as the owner of a legally purchased disc, I am not seeking to profit by making a digital copy of the content for my own personal use. The content owners have received payment for their investment, and ultimately, I am protecting my investment by making the digital copy as these discs are easily damaged and rendered unplayable.

 

I am tired of politicians and the legal system treating us all like criminals in waiting just chomping at the bit to break the law and them seeing it as their duty to protect us from our criminal tendencies. As I said, I make digital copies of the discs I purchase. I could just as easily make digital copies of the discs I receive from Netflix. However, I do not, as I recognize that such an activity would be illegal and unethical.


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post #5 of 491 Old 11-01-2012, 08:14 AM
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After losing with VCRs, Tape Recorders, and CD-Ripping; the companies that run the RIAA and MPAA went through a very complex process of writing new laws about bypassing of encryption, and encryption licensing.

In short: they created a back-door where writing a decrypter is illegal, and where they can control in perpetuity how you use *their* decrypter. It's not so much a copyright violation as it is illegal decryption.

Which is all insane. The standard for copyright for more than 400 years has been "does granting this control encourage the creation of new art". If the answer was "no" for CDs, Tapes, and VCRs; then the answer is still no when the physical media changes.

Disney will not cancel IronMan 4 because I ripped my copy of IronMan 3 to my HDD to stream it around my house without having to go to the DVD rack each time.
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post #6 of 491 Old 11-01-2012, 08:20 AM
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So then I guess there is no reason for me to look into doing that any more. That's too bad. I had a line on a really good setup that would have made my life a lot easier. I am late to the game for this kind of thing but I did have a really nice setup in mind. Oh well.

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post #7 of 491 Old 11-01-2012, 08:42 AM
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It's always been illegal.

If you pay attention there is some information on those FBI warning screens to let you know that.

People want to say its legal,... That doesn't exactly work though.
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post #8 of 491 Old 11-01-2012, 08:48 AM
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Hmmmm, I don't own a DVD or BlueRay player at home, but I have a DVD/BLueRay player on my desktop, I'm not planning on spending more money on a Blueray player, just so that I can play the movies again. I've got my collection ripped on to my NAS Hard Drives, and stream them to my home. I have 2 WD Live's and don't plan to stop. Now I've been collecting UltraViolet copies from friends and when I buy a new show or movie.

But for someone to tell me that I can't, then thats just wrong. Charge me less on the shows and I would have bought them all digitally in the first place.

350 dvd rips + 10 Tv Series + 30 Blue Ray movies.

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post #9 of 491 Old 11-01-2012, 09:00 AM
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Completely asinine and self defeating all due to spiteful principle of attempting to forestall, if ever so briefly, illegal pirating. Instead of producing a product that rewards paying customers the Studios with their lobbying arms continue passing laws to protect antiquated business models and marketing gimmicks.

The cruel twist is that one still has a legal right to create a copy for personal use and archiving but no legal means to produce said copy, i.e. breaking the encryption.

What is even more aggravating is that history has shown that when priced appropriately most people are content to acquire legal copies of music and movies even in the eras of Tape Recorders, VCRs, and CD-Ripping which all were suppose to have destroyed those industries back then.

With that said sales have declined but not for the reasons the RIAA/MPAA love to tout. One major declining revenue vector is the upgrade from an older inferior version to an appreciable improved new version. Folks who had repurchased legal copies of their favorite bands or movies from the analog age and upgraded to the CD and DVD era were mostly content with the final result. There is no real compelling reason to repurchase and upgrade ones entire album or movie collections if they are satisfied with the current versions they own.

Another obnoxious angle of hypocrisy and double talk is the concept of ownership, when a customer purchases movies or music everything is worded in a manner that imbues the sense of ownership not a leased license to use that copy. All the advertisements claim a customer can 'buy and own' a copy when available, never is it stated as 'purchase your leased license today!'
I believe there could be grounds for a class action lawsuit for false and misleading advertising but at least in the US with our current degraded consumer protection rights that may prove difficult.

All the money the studios have wasted lobbying for and gaining askewed laws could have been put towards more movies or other worthwhile endeavors.

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post #10 of 491 Old 11-01-2012, 09:07 AM
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Its also illegal to go 1 mph over the speed limit... rolleyes.gif
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post #11 of 491 Old 11-01-2012, 09:08 AM
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This is ridiculous. If you own a disc, then you should be able to do whatever you want with it. It's perfectly OK to rip a CD that you own to play on a digital player. What makes DVDs and Blu-rays any different? Some judge shouldn't be able to tell you what you can do at your house with something that you paid for.
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post #12 of 491 Old 11-01-2012, 09:30 AM
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You make a great point about Movie Studios advertising their products using terms like, "Buy" and "Own". Virtually all software and even most freeware requires the agreement to a EULA. The only EULAs I've seen on Blu-ray are exclusively for BD-Live content.
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post #13 of 491 Old 11-01-2012, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmpharmacist View Post

What makes DVDs and Blu-rays any different?

They have copy protection like CSS and AACS that you are not allowed to remove. CDs, VHS, books, etc have nothing of the sort.

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post #14 of 491 Old 11-01-2012, 09:54 AM
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Ok, so can I now purchase digital copies of movies at a significant price reduction over the disk version? Now they don't have to manufacture, package, ship, distribute, and market the disks. Just let me download for about $2-5 and we'll call it even!
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post #15 of 491 Old 11-01-2012, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chevychad View Post

Its also illegal to go 1 mph over the speed limit... rolleyes.gif
But your not going to get a 25 year sentence for driving over the limit. Someone got some pockets lined for sure on this one.
Just another fine example of what's wrong with this country! Don't worry about the illegals or a crumbling infrastructure.
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post #16 of 491 Old 11-01-2012, 10:05 AM
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Nothing is changing in this country. Rich get richer and Big companies what to control our destiny and options in life.

Energy should be focused on the Big Banks and wall Street, that's where all these back-door deals happen my friends. We're not included in the "circle" of wealth. This is purely for the top 1% to get fatter wallets and laugh at the working class trying to make ends met, period. It will never end, period.
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post #17 of 491 Old 11-01-2012, 10:33 AM
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Why is this news?
This has always been the case.
You don't own the movie just the right to play it on the machine the disk was intended for.
For those that spend lots of $$$ on audio setups (most of us here right?) this is the only way to get HD audio.
If all you care for is downmixed 2ch from a compressed dvd or bluray then why bother worrying about what AVR has what features or how much resolution your display has.rolleyes.gif


For those that have 100s of copies on HDs but don't own a dvd or bluray player, what did you do with all of those shiny disks?
Bit torrent makes it even more illegal.tongue.gif
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post #18 of 491 Old 11-01-2012, 11:01 AM
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I'm against piracy and never support it, but stuff like this is what pushes people to tell these companies and such ridiculous "laws" to go **** themselves and will pirate in-spite of 'em, such arrogance thinking they'll resolve such issues by forcing such laws, it'll only make it worse.

Once I get my copy, I can do whatever the **** I want with it as long as it's related to my own personal usage, i.e not sharing the content with other people or stuff like that.

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post #19 of 491 Old 11-01-2012, 11:02 AM
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So I should start buying digital versions of movies instead of supporting my local B&M?
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post #20 of 491 Old 11-01-2012, 11:03 AM
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Well, you can still rip legally, but guess what? YOU HAVE TO PAY! GREED holds no bounds man
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post #21 of 491 Old 11-01-2012, 11:05 AM
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I don't like this ruling at all.

I rip all my DVD's and Blu-Rays and store them on my NAS and am able to enjoy them anywhere in my house on my DISH Hoppers via DLNA.

I own and have kept all the DVD's I have ripped over the years, they are in boxes. So much easier doing it this way.

I am not a fan of Ultraviolet at all.

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post #22 of 491 Old 11-01-2012, 11:15 AM
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So will this effect Kaleidescape?
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post #23 of 491 Old 11-01-2012, 11:23 AM
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Amen to that. Unless the FBI is gonna go door to door to check which dvd I LEGALLY BOUGHT and then transferred for MY OWN PRIVATE USE to my computer they can kiss my ass..............................
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post #24 of 491 Old 11-01-2012, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flavious27 View Post

So will this effect Kaleidescape?

Kaeidescape's "loophole" was that their software copied the encryption too. They licensed the CSS codes and whatnot for their players, so the decryption was done during playback and not while ripping.

A few months back the courts ruled they violated their license by using it in that manner for DVD. Bluray was never a problem because of the vault storage carousels discs had to be kept in.

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post #25 of 491 Old 11-01-2012, 11:38 AM
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i think its total BS and its not going to stop me from backing stuff up to my NAS to stream around my house
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post #26 of 491 Old 11-01-2012, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

Is this saying that I can't take the 300 DVD's I have legal bought and the 80+ BR that I have legal bought and put them on a hard drive for ease of use? If so then that really sucks.

Real men do it anyway.
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post #27 of 491 Old 11-01-2012, 11:54 AM
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Pardon me for my ignorance, but this only talks about DVD's. Last I checked, DVD's and Blu Ray are not the same. So, does this ruling only apply to DVD's or to Blu Ray as well?

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post #28 of 491 Old 11-01-2012, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius View Post

Real men do it anyway.
I guess then I won't totally scrap the idea.

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post #29 of 491 Old 11-01-2012, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosteh View Post

Pardon me for my ignorance, but this only talks about DVD's. Last I checked, DVD's and Blu Ray are not the same. So, does this ruling only apply to DVD's or to Blu Ray as well?

Per the DMCA, any file that has encryption cannot have said encryption broken to make a copy. That copy would then be unauthorized. That would apply to DVD-A and SACD if they have encryption too (which I believe they do) as well as PC and console games.

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post #30 of 491 Old 11-01-2012, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberguy34 View Post

Nothing is changing in this country. Rich get richer and Big companies what to control our destiny and options in life.
Energy should be focused on the Big Banks and wall Street, that's where all these back-door deals happen my friends. We're not included in the "circle" of wealth. This is purely for the top 1% to get fatter wallets and laugh at the working class trying to make ends met, period. It will never end, period.

I hate to tell you this jack, but the fact that you're posting here on a computer puts you in the top 1% of the world. Please though, keep enlightening us on this "circle" of wealth.
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