Philips Hold the Key to 3D's Success....What is it? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 01-11-2013, 10:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Everyone knows what was obvious at this years Consumer Electronics Show, UHD Display's. But what was the obvious feature people spoke the least about? You probably guessed it, 3D. Most manufacturers haven't said a peep about any new 3D features.

Except for Philips that is.

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But one company is bucking the trend: Philips. Why? Because it has what it considers to be the key to 3D's success: glasses-free viewing.

What-HiFi was given a private demo of the new unit...
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Here at CES we were given a private demo of Philips's prototype 4K 3D TV. It's work in progress for now, so not the finished article, but a sign of the company's commitment to the technology. "We believe 3D TV will only take off when it's glasses-free," says Philips.
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The prototype uses a 60in 4K panel and a lenticular layer to create the 3D image without the user having to wear 3D glasses.

Here are some cool notable features and key points about Glasses-Free 3D
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Philips says up to ten people can view the screen while remaining in the 3D 'sweet spot'. In fact, there's a little blue light at the bottom of the screen which shows you if you're in the right position for 3D viewing - if you can see two blue lines, you need to move slightly until you can only see one, then the 3D effect will snap into place.
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All the 3D processing is done by the set itself, and it uses fixed lenses for its lenticular display, rather than switching ones, and is set up to produce a 1080p image (despite being a 4K panel).

No news on the release date of this 4K Prototype display. Philips says the set will cost about the same as a native 4K TV.

Is this what consumers are waiting for? A Glass-Free TV? Will it really make it difference to the public?



Source
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post #2 of 18 Old 01-12-2013, 07:45 AM
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I think Phillips, as a company, need to step back and see what consumers want. They look a little late to the party.

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post #3 of 18 Old 01-12-2013, 08:09 AM - Thread Starter
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I agree. Considering it was a prototype and in the article they mentioned that it wasn't a public demo, more of a private showing, doesn't show any signs of making it. Toshiba had shown a Glasses-Free display years ago and that never went anywhere.

Who knows what will happen rolleyes.gif

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post #4 of 18 Old 01-12-2013, 10:06 AM
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i think if they get the viewing angles right and can produce an image equal to 2d, they may be right. otherwise they should keep trying.
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post #5 of 18 Old 01-12-2013, 10:31 AM
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Every major TV manufacturer was showing off 3D TVs in either 4K, OLED 2K, and even OLED 4K announced, curved OLED 3D, and Samsung's multi program OLED 3D switchable simultaneous TV. (Watching two 3D TV programs at the same time off one screen)
Anyone who spent any time at CES this year and claims 3D was not alive and kicking everywhere, must have spent their entire time in the restroom, is blind, or has an anti 3D agenda, and there are plenty of those in the press.

Glasses free 3D TV is continuing to be developed by a few companies. Toshiba is one but they have not made much progress in the last year. They use a face detection multi parallax system gpod for 3 viewers if you do not move. On the other hand, a small company based in Philadelphia, Ultra-d. and streamtvnetworks has one of the best glasses free 3D TV IN 4k resolution I have ever seen. The 3D pop and depth is excellent for an entire audience and is not sensitive to head position, like Toshiba. This company is seeking partnerships with a TV manufacturer and does not plan to make these sets themselves. Their older 2k version was not very high quality last year, but this year, the 2K and 4k models are something to take seriously.

I did not see the Philips system but if it is the same as ultra-d then we are on the way to quality glasses free 3D.
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post #6 of 18 Old 01-12-2013, 03:24 PM
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I don't think consumers want glasses free 3D or a Phillips TV. wink.gif

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post #7 of 18 Old 01-12-2013, 03:32 PM - Thread Starter
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What I've heard was that 3D wasn't mentioned at all by most manufacturers at CES. None of them mentioned anything new or showcased 3D as being the new kid in town.

That being said though, 3D has become almost a standard feature in most TV's. I think it's simply a dormant technology right now that's still testing the waters. My next TV that I plan to get will probably have 3D. Not because I want it, because it has it.

I think it comes down to that. 3D isn't dead, it's simply dormant and treading softly. I think the next time we hear about 3D is with Glasses-Free, and then again, it might simply be a standard feature just as Smart features.

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post #8 of 18 Old 01-12-2013, 05:00 PM
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No one mentioned much about 3-D that was new, e39, because there is, in fact, nothing new.

The same lack of content (except for a certain complement of Hollywood movies), the same generally unappealing glasses, the same resolution halving on passive (although 4K promises to improve that)...

But every single high-end TV has 3-D and many were shown off with the 3-D feature, including both 2013 OLEDs (Samsung and LG), LG's multi-million-dollar 3-D wall, etc.

Philips not-a-product, not-on-display glasses-free set might be the future -- hell the only chance for 3-D to go mainstream is minus glasses, that much is clear to every rational observer of the scene (i.e. rule out many AVS enthusiasts from the set in question) -- but it's entirely irrelevant, especially in North America, where there is no Philips to speak of.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #9 of 18 Old 01-12-2013, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

No one mentioned much about 3-D that was new, e39, because there is, in fact, nothing new.

The same lack of content (except for a certain complement of Hollywood movies), the same generally unappealing glasses, the same resolution halving on passive (although 4K promises to improve that)...

But every single high-end TV has 3-D and many were shown off with the 3-D feature, including both 2013 OLEDs (Samsung and LG), LG's multi-million-dollar 3-D wall, etc.

Philips not-a-product, not-on-display glasses-free set might be the future -- hell the only chance for 3-D to go mainstream is minus glasses, that much is clear to every rational observer of the scene (i.e. rule out many AVS enthusiasts from the set in question) -- but it's entirely irrelevant, especially in North America, where there is no Philips to speak of.

You forgot the same lack of support by video media providers such as Dish Network andf until recently Netflix. Then there are companies that cant even support their own tech across an entire roduct line; such as Sony and the whole Simulview retardation.

I freakn LOOOOVE my Bravia for its EXTREMLY CLEAR 3D!!! We call Dish about every 3 months to find out when they are planning to deliver on their promise to add 3Net and ESPN-3D and the few others out there. Anyone I know with a 3D set is not upset they got the 3D TV but the utter lack by companies that have no excuse to not be part of it. Its like tha mass media producers dont want to spend money on upgrading their equipment, even though we did so they continue to not add 3D channels, stream 3D content, etc.

I thought the 'free market' system was supposed to stop them from controlling what consumers want? -rhetorical statement

Pass it on... George Washington, and other patriots, didnt say 'just dont tell them our names.'

They stood in the face of CERTAIN death and said "We are the founders of America... we are not an anonymous group of obscurity and we WILL produce the greatest nation in the world!!!"
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post #10 of 18 Old 01-13-2013, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

No one mentioned much
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

(except for a certain complement of Hollywood movies)
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

the same resolution halving on passive (although 4K promises to improve that)
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

but it's entirely irrelevant, especially in North America

Yep, hedging your bets is prudent in regard to your attitude toward 3D. Also note it's "3D" and not "3-D" in AVS. Check the forum labels.
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post #11 of 18 Old 01-13-2013, 07:40 AM
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In my experience (read: The Hobbit), 3D and HFR (high framerate) complement each other pretty nicely. Therefore, 3D effect is more pronounced with HFR and HFR fluidness is more pronounced with 3D thrown into the box.
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post #12 of 18 Old 01-13-2013, 09:03 AM
 
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Most people I know do not like 3D because of the glasses.
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post #13 of 18 Old 01-13-2013, 09:46 AM
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Like my neighbor who has a two-year-old plasma 3D set, he bought a 3D bluray player, but no glasses. He says they are too expensive and he doesn't seem to care about 3D anyway. I asked why he bought a 3D bluray player, and he said, duh, because he's got a 3D TV. He's the same guy that for three years before that bought an HD capable plasma TV and watched all of his shows in stretched SD with an s-video connection. I tried to show him how to hook up component for true HD, but he said he loved the picture just the way it was, and didn't want to fool with it. I asked him why he bought an HD TV and he said, duh, he has HD cable. At least with the 3D TV, his son finally hooked up an hdmi cable, and he does now watch his shows in HD. I asked if he sees an improvement over his first TV, and he said, not much really, just that the people aren't quite as fat as they used to be (ala the stretched SD image I presume wink.gif ). He's actually pretty smart, but does, in my mind represent the average joe out there when it comes to new TV technology. They don't connect TV watching to the technical nature of it, but rather a presumption of what is necessary to watch TV based on what they see on commercials.
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post #14 of 18 Old 01-13-2013, 03:30 PM
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I've seen glasses-free 3D TV in a shop recently (dont rememer the brand) , and it was not impressive at all, except for the price. I barely could tell if its 3D or not.

Maybe the technology will get better in future, but for now I prefer dim but deep 3D with "silly glasses" instead of bright glasses-free not-so-much-3D.
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post #15 of 18 Old 01-14-2013, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by threed123 View Post

Like my neighbor who has a two-year-old plasma 3D set, he bought a 3D bluray player, but no glasses. He says they are too expensive and he doesn't seem to care about 3D anyway. I asked why he bought a 3D bluray player, and he said, duh, because he's got a 3D TV. He's the same guy that for three years before that bought an HD capable plasma TV and watched all of his shows in stretched SD with an s-video connection. I tried to show him how to hook up component for true HD, but he said he loved the picture just the way it was, and didn't want to fool with it. I asked him why he bought an HD TV and he said, duh, he has HD cable. At least with the 3D TV, his son finally hooked up an hdmi cable, and he does now watch his shows in HD. I asked if he sees an improvement over his first TV, and he said, not much really, just that the people aren't quite as fat as they used to be (ala the stretched SD image I presume wink.gif ). He's actually pretty smart, but does, in my mind represent the average joe out there when it comes to new TV technology. They don't connect TV watching to the technical nature of it, but rather a presumption of what is necessary to watch TV based on what they see on commercials.

Thank goodness I'm not the only person that has/had neighbors clueless and without common knowledge about technology.

I guess it just depends where they purchase from and also if they read the manuls or not, but like most Americans, we don't like to read and just go for gold!

Anyhow, I'll pass on 3D displays and wait for hologram display units!
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post #16 of 18 Old 01-16-2013, 11:22 PM
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I watched some glasses free 3D on a Toshiba Regza and it was overpriced and awful to watch.
The sweet spots were small and even then, the background had severe cross talk. its was a thoroughly discouraging example of 3D. The same goes for all the 3D glasses free laptops or computer monitors I have seen (e.g. Sony, Sharp)... it just looks raw and ugly.

So far, the best implementation for me has been Passive 3D with very light glasses. rock solid picture and no flickering at all. (obviously there is a cut in resolution, but with 4K coming, it should be true 1080p in both eyes).
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post #17 of 18 Old 01-20-2013, 01:16 PM
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Passive, Full HD, 3D on the 84" LG has been rated as the best seen by some reviews, even better than the theater. I don't think the glasses are a big deal for most people when they are the light-weight passive type. Cheap, free of batteries and recharging or loss of synch. Simple physics and optics dictates there will always be a compromise and "sweet" spots for glasses-free 3D. And that lens system will, by definition affect 2D viewing as well, since it is part of the screen, and still allowing each eye to see only half the screen's pixels at all times. Just the opposite of the problem with half-resolution 3D images on 1080P 2K screens. Give me Ultra HD and passive 3D any day, with nearly disposable glasses and bright, flicker-free images. And I compromised 2D viewing.
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post #18 of 18 Old 01-25-2013, 02:20 PM
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Everyone i know that has a 3D setup at home, says its much better than the 3D they see at the cinema anyway, even on £500 screens, let alone the 84" LG, me included.
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