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post #91 of 199 Old 08-19-2014, 12:42 PM
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Even if I had all the money in the world, I wouldn't get M2s for surround speakers. Talk about overkill.

On this basis of this thread, I've ordered some JBL LSR308s with a pair of Art CleanBox Pro to convert from RCA to XLR. Hope they sound clean!

This way I can use an Oppo BD player as a prepro. Eventually I'll add some 305s to my rear channels and maybe even for heights in an Atmos setup, unless I can get something more convenient. Seems kind of risky to have powered speakers /w amps mounted overhead on the ceiling. What if they fall! Eeeek. Might be smarter to get some passive concentric drivers for those channels. Does JBL make ceiling speakers like that?

Thanks for the tips, I'm really looking forward to owning some horn speakers with a nice and wide sound field. I used to have Klipsch THX 650s but they were too large for my apt and I had amp issues.
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post #92 of 199 Old 08-20-2014, 07:03 AM
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Any more thoughts on the 305's would be most welcome!
I have the 305s, 2310P sub, and MSC1 controller as my desktop monitors in a room with acoustic treatment. Excellent imaging, clarity, and easy to listen to for long periods of time. I've been an audiophile since the 60s and this setup is the best bang for my buck yet. I've heard the M2s..WOW!
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post #93 of 199 Old 08-20-2014, 11:40 PM
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I love reading these impressions - keep them coming!


For those of you who haven't done so already, a must see is this podcast by Scott Wilkinson on the M2:

New JBL Speaker Technologies

One of the guys he talks to worked on elements of the M2 and there is over an hour of great M2 info.
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post #94 of 199 Old 08-23-2014, 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post
On this basis of this thread, I've ordered some JBL LSR308s with a pair of Art CleanBox Pro to convert from RCA to XLR. Hope they sound clean!
Given the output from the RCAs will be unbalanced, what is the advantage to using the ART CLEANBox Pro to, say, the cheap 30cm PULSE PLS00202: http://cpc.farnell.com/1/1/63818-lea...202-pulse.html , and then a couple of regular XLR cables?
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post #95 of 199 Old 08-23-2014, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by dabotsonline View Post
Given the output from the RCAs will be unbalanced, what is the advantage to using the ART CLEANBox Pro to, say, the cheap 30cm PULSE PLS00202: http://cpc.farnell.com/1/1/63818-lea...202-pulse.html , and then a couple of regular XLR cables?
XLR inputs on pro gear are typically at +4db whereas RCA is at -10db, so you would have to massively boost the volume which introduces hiss. However, I noticed that the 308s have a switch to select between those two line levels, so it's entirely possibly I've wasted my money and should have just gotten something like those cables which don't actually attach the inverted wire at all.

The review of the 308s on JBLs own site mentioned hiss when using them as computer speakers as a negative so perhaps they just had their review speakers on the wrong setting. Anyway, regardless, the die is cast and it's going to be expensive to return the cleanboxes even if it turns out that I don't need them in the end. Others on amazon have mentioned hiss present when using consumer level audio sources with these and I suspect it's just because they need to be properly converted to balanced prior to input.

If I get my hands on some of those rca to xlr wires I'll compare them side by side and report on it. In the end, getting a few cleanbox units isn't a huge expense and I absolutely hate the idea of hearing hiss because I had to boost the volume level so much that when music isn't playing I need to turn the speakers off. If the hiss is still present with the baluns I'll return the speakers and get something else instead.
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post #96 of 199 Old 09-16-2014, 09:45 AM
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Look like decent speakers but they would need to beat the amazing sound of my more expensive avantgarde duo omega horns. The avantgardes sound amazing when setup properly in my room.

I am tempted to blow my cash load and buy avantgarde trio omegas for around $50k since I cant even find a proper current generation used pair.

I always keep other horn speakers on the list just in case i can get very similar sound for a lot less money.

I wish i can hear these JBL's. I havent heard any of the other JBL "big" speakers ... And most of them are a deco disaster.
interesting thread

looks like JBL has solved the equation for MED (minimum effective dose) to achieve an explosive paradigm shift by applying proper engineering at the proper locations, at minimum cost, in a two-way design.

seems some on this thread are in disbelief from a bias that cost=performance, or a historic view perhaps from forward/boomy 70s JBL monitors, and low end circuit city gear, that discounts the parallel universe of top top minds at JBL who've been creating amazing high end gear for decades using JBL/Harman's vast resources. note that respected industry figures whose livelihood depend on these products are universally wow'd by the M2, and not just incrementally wow'd, but repeatedly using the words "never before" "game changer" as compared to B&W and other 400K eurogear, but oddly don't reference the avantgarde duo omega?
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post #97 of 199 Old 09-24-2014, 08:08 PM
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If these were indeed the speakers used for the JBL Atmos demo at CEDIA, count me as unimpressed. Dialog reproduction was less than stellar in the demo I attended on Saturday. Cup-mouthed and unnatural and sometimes even a few lines were hard to understand... more like a good PA speaker than anything refined like a quality monitor should be. It's odd because music and sound effects came through wonderfully, with a dynamic punchiness. Dialog is what killed them. Weird. Very weird.

Even the Pioneer Elite Andrew Jones speakers sounded better in that department, and the older Snell's used at the Denon/Marantz and the Steinway and James Loudspeaker systems blew them away handily for reproducing the human voice in a very realistic manner at high volumes.

I wouldn't pay $6,000 each for the M2's, no way. There are far better bangs for the buck in the wild.

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post #98 of 199 Old 10-06-2014, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

edit - JBL has updated their website with a lot of info, everything but a MSRP. Look at this frequency response chart:

I suspect that the top, super flat frequency response is either electrically equalized or has been normalized to a flat response to then show how the off axis responses behave relative to the on axis response, IF it were truly flat. [see edit below]


In general frequency response curves are meaningless, anyways, without stating if the room was anechoic, the distance the mic was placed at, and the specific mic used (and if it had been calibrated). What we are seeing here may be a mic which was calibrated to the speaker.


I tend to ignore manufacturer specs in general even when they state these things and always prefer third party data, ideally from a disinterested source that doesn't accept advertising from the contenders.


edit to add: Harman measured these and they describe the green response curve as :


"Listening window = average of on axis, +/-10 degrees vertical and +/-10, 20, 30 horizontal speaker frequency response." so we are seeing a composite averaged from nine different angles: on axis, +10 degrees vertically above, -10 degrees vertically below, +10 degrees horizontally to the left...


source:
http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/201...tment-options/


so this obviously can't be compared to a single, direct on-axis response measurement of any other speaker

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass, etc., any more than we pick the ending of a play. High fidelity means an unmodified, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original artist's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #99 of 199 Old 10-06-2014, 11:43 AM
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JTR 215HT vs. JBL M2
comparison next month here:
Another North East GTG (Go To Gorilla's)!
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post #100 of 199 Old 10-08-2014, 10:54 AM
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I would like to see it compared to the SEOS-18" with BA-750 and a JBL 2226. I bet they would be a whole lot closer sound wise, than they are money wise.
The advantage of a JBL engineer and the tools at his disposal and the digital active crossovers makes me think as good as the DIY group designers are... it would not even be close.

This is a very refined product, tested in multiple rooms, and chambers, over time...

A passive, simplistic 2 way crossover would not compete IMO.

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post #101 of 199 Old 10-08-2014, 11:01 AM
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JTR 215HT vs. JBL M2
comparison next month here:
Another North East GTG (Go To Gorilla's)!
Hopefully I can compare both to my TD15M + DNA360/SEOS15 and get a good idea how they stack up.

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post #102 of 199 Old 10-08-2014, 04:35 PM
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What specifically is the difference between a "horn loaded" speaker vs a "waveguide".

They essentially seem to be the same thing. I am no stranger to horn speakers, owning spherical horn speakers from Avantgarde which I love.

How do waveguides perform better/differently from a horn? And are they truly different?
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post #103 of 199 Old 10-08-2014, 04:44 PM
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They are the same thing. "Wave guide" sounds sexier and people get confused when you comment on a speaker sounding, erm, "horny".
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In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass, etc., any more than we pick the ending of a play. High fidelity means an unmodified, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original artist's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..
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post #104 of 199 Old 10-10-2014, 04:08 PM
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They look like overpriced MDF boxes to me
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post #105 of 199 Old 11-15-2014, 11:35 PM
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JBL calls for each speaker to be powered by a Crown iTech 5000HD - so that's $6.000 per speaker for amplification alone.

The JBL S4700 has the identical woofer - JBL 2216Nd and a similar cabinet. The price of the s4700 is $20,000/pair, so it would not be surprising if these cost the same or perhaps a bit more per unit.
At $6K per speaker for amplification for Crown why no get McIntosh instead? And besides as much as I love pro JBL sound how many people are going to use pro line studio monitors in there home? I have heard the JBL S4700's at CES in Vegas and they sound great but they are to rich for my pocket book, maybe if I hit the lottery. I am happy with my Altec Lancing A-7 Voice Of The Theaters but wouldn't mind a 7.2 system built around the JBL S4700's!

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post #106 of 199 Old 12-21-2014, 05:44 PM
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At $6K per speaker for amplification for Crown why no get McIntosh instead? And besides as much as I love pro JBL sound how many people are going to use pro line studio monitors in there home? I have heard the JBL S4700's at CES in Vegas and they sound great but they are to rich for my pocket book, maybe if I hit the lottery. I am happy with my Altec Lancing A-7 Voice Of The Theaters but wouldn't mind a 7.2 system built around the JBL S4700's!
6k/speaker for amplification is not even close to street price. As well, the Crown's have the DSP on board so the separate BSS London processor that would be required with the McIntosh is not necessary. There are scenarios where the separate BSS processor makes sense, but not likely for two or three M2's alone.

And yes not many would use pro line studio monitors in their home, but the number isn't zero.

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post #107 of 199 Old 05-08-2015, 05:10 PM
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Hey all. So JBL is sending me a pair to demo at my mastering studio. I'll be making the room open to anyone interested in a listen. Should have them for about a month. In Portland Oregon. If I buy them than the offer is open to come check them out.


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post #108 of 199 Old 05-27-2015, 03:35 PM
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Hey all. So JBL is sending me a pair to demo at my mastering studio. I'll be making the room open to anyone interested in a listen. Should have them for about a month. In Portland Oregon. If I buy them than the offer is open to come check them out.


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Nice! I'm looking forward to your impressions please come on back and let us know what you think. These monitors impress me more the longer I own them. The clarity, resolution,and imaging are simply outstanding and I can't imagine a better tool for listening inside your mixes.

You make the mix on your M2's and and I'll listen on mine. I don't think it gets better than that .
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post #109 of 199 Old 05-27-2015, 03:47 PM
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Your right. Doesn't get much better. I've had PMC, B&W 800's, Dunlavys and a few home brews and still search for the best. It's hard. People don't hire me because I have "this speaker". However. Gotta produce good results every time.


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post #110 of 199 Old 05-28-2015, 07:22 AM
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Your right. Doesn't get much better. I've had PMC, B&W 800's, Dunlavys and a few home brews and still search for the best. It's hard. People don't hire me because I have "this speaker". However. Gotta produce good results every time.


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Can't tell from your response, do you have the M2's yet? If so, what are your impressions?
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post #111 of 199 Old 06-09-2015, 09:57 PM
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Arrived today! The 4x3500hd should be here tomorrow. 30amp service being brought in too. For now I have an adapter Crown says is ok being I'm not running it anywhere near that point. However the control room was built In a light industrial building and we have lots of 3 phase power near by!


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post #112 of 199 Old 06-10-2015, 02:44 AM
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Arrived today! The 4x3500hd should be here tomorrow. 30amp service being brought in too. For now I have an adapter Crown says is ok being I'm not running it anywhere near that point. However the control room was built In a light industrial building and we have lots of 3 phase power near by!


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Awesome! Looking forward to your impressions. @SeaNile just got a pair and I think it's safe to say he likes them....a lot .
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post #113 of 199 Old 06-17-2015, 04:29 PM
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Well. Up and running. Had to move the Crown 4x3500hd VERY far away. Noisy beast.
I was a bit surprised listening today though. They have a very small finger print. You get the sense that the sound coming out is not tampered with and arrives at your ear very effortlessly. However. Something bothers me. I need to play with height. I have them 22" off the ground and it's just too tall. Any suggestions? Other amp options?Click image for larger version

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post #114 of 199 Old 06-17-2015, 10:43 PM
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What exactly is bothering you about the sound right now?

JBL Synthesis | Crown | BSS Soundweb
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post #115 of 199 Old 06-18-2015, 11:53 AM
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Well. Up and running. Had to move the Crown 4x3500hd VERY far away. Noisy beast.
I was a bit surprised listening today though. They have a very small finger print. You get the sense that the sound coming out is not tampered with and arrives at your ear very effortlessly. However. Something bothers me. I need to play with height. I have them 22" off the ground and it's just too tall. Any suggestions? Other amp options?Attachment 781746


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22" is not the important number. What is the angle from the CD/horn to the ears at the LP? You want it 10 deg. or less.

As to the amp, yeah, needs to be in another room for sure. To loud to be in same space as speakers. The other option is the London BSS processor and some high powered amps of your choice. I've been told that the most transparent solution are the Crown amps, but I don't know that first hand.
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post #116 of 199 Old 06-18-2015, 12:02 PM
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What exactly is bothering you about the sound right now?
Probably like he said- height. Humans are sensitive to height. Changing the set up to optimize would be beneficial.

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post #117 of 199 Old 06-18-2015, 05:03 PM
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Yup. Lowered them. Tweaked the toe in. Adjusted the eq with a gentle slope on the top and really putting a smile on my face. Had singer Gino Vannelli come by the studio to listen to some of his masters and he was VERY impressed. Platinum / Grammy producer with 40 years in the biz. Really value his ears and opinion.

Anyone using a BSS processor and different amps?! I'd be curious about ditching the 4x3500 mostly due to noise(Fan). Don't like long cable runs because of the amp.


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post #118 of 199 Old 06-18-2015, 09:23 PM
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Yup. Lowered them. Tweaked the toe in. Adjusted the eq with a gentle slope on the top and really putting a smile on my face. Had singer Gino Vannelli come by the studio to listen to some of his masters and he was VERY impressed. Platinum / Grammy producer with 40 years in the biz. Really value his ears and opinion.

Anyone using a BSS processor and different amps?! I'd be curious about ditching the 4x3500 mostly due to noise(Fan). Don't like long cable runs because of the amp.


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Yeah, the M2's are just solid and true top to bottom. There are times I am absolutely blown away by the clarity and realism. It seems you can "feel" that you're hearing exactly what was laid down on the track. And not just the details, but tone and timbre too. I know I can't ever be certain that's true, so that's why I say "feel", but it sure seems that way. I do know that for a couple singers that I'm very familiar with their live sonic signatures the M2's reproduce them seemingly perfectly. In fact hearing them on the M2's is one of the primary reasons I pulled the trigger .

So I can't say I'm surprised you've got a smile in your face .

Unfortunately, getting an opinion on different amp options is going to be tough. Finding owners is hard enough, haha! I can tell you that Crown may be working on a firmware update to turn the fans off on the iTech for lower level listening.
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post #119 of 199 Old 06-28-2015, 01:05 PM
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We have an LCR spread of M2's in for evaluation. Lots of very positive comments, and the imaging from just a stereo pair is astonishing.
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post #120 of 199 Old 06-28-2015, 01:44 PM
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Would I be correct in assuming these active monitors use active (electronic) EQ? I have nothing against that, just askin'.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass, etc., any more than we pick the ending of a play. High fidelity means an unmodified, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original artist's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..
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