Logitech in Trouble, Looks to sell off Harmony Remote Division - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 61 Old 01-24-2013, 09:36 PM - Thread Starter
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We all know Logitech and their awesome home theater friendly remotes. Well it looks like this past quarter the company and their Harmony division took a turn for the worse and posted quite a hefty loss; nearly $200 Million.
Quote:
The company posted a loss of $180 million in the recent quarter, with Harmony sales falling 55 percent based on units.

Also leaving Logitech is their digital video security division. Hopefully whom ever buys the Harmony division makes good with it. The trend for universal remotes seems to be moving from a handheld remote to tablets. I'm thinking it may be best for whom ever acquires the rights to Harmony devote a lot of time into developing software that can compete with the likes of iRule. The Harmony brand name itself should make people feel pretty comfortable buying an app with it's name behind the software.

Only time will tell who acquires the rights. What do you guys make of this?


Source: http://www.customretailer.net/article/logitech-sell-harmony-remote-division-25057126/1
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post #2 of 61 Old 01-24-2013, 09:57 PM
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Hopefully they can rebound. As it stands the best universal remotes out there are Harmonys.

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post #3 of 61 Old 01-25-2013, 05:49 AM
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Wonder how long they are going to keep support for the remotes. I agree with the above they are great universals and are have a huge selection of equipment they control.
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post #4 of 61 Old 01-25-2013, 02:40 PM
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For the cool factor tablets are great, don't forget Harmony already has the "Harmony Link" that works with the Ipad. However, there is nothing like hard buttons for a remote. To me their "One" is their best remote yet.

Whomever buys it, if they do the right marketing for it, and keep up the support will be getting a great asset.

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post #5 of 61 Old 01-25-2013, 03:05 PM
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They deserve it. Their Harmony programming GUI is infuriating and customer support is horrible and they want to charge you if you fart.
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post #6 of 61 Old 01-25-2013, 03:15 PM
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+1 on best remote ever
+1 on real buttons are better than tablets.

I'm amazed at how many people have never heard of them. Everybody I've convinced into buying is in the "You can have my remote when you pry it out of my dead, cold fingers" club.

If you don't have a Harmony, you don't have harmony with your SO. Once you try a Harmony radio, you'll never go back. I just wish they made more radio models.
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post #7 of 61 Old 01-25-2013, 03:16 PM
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When I bought my most recent AVR, a Pioneer Elite, it was open-box and an impulse purchase. It was an SC-57 and it did not come with a remote. I asked the Magnolia employee what the best solution was and they suggested a Harmony. When I got home I looked up the manual for my new AVR and of course Pioneer has an app for it. I downloaded it to my phone and I returned the Harmony for a refund. That's got to hurt their bottom line, but now I never lose the remote, because I always have my phone with me. I wish I could control everything with my phone.

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post #8 of 61 Old 01-25-2013, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

When I bought my most recent AVR, a Pioneer Elite, it was open-box and an impulse purchase. It was an SC-57 and it did not come with a remote. I asked the Magnolia employee what the best solution was and they suggested a Harmony. When I got home I looked up the manual for my new AVR and of course Pioneer has an app for it. I downloaded it to my phone and I returned the Harmony for a refund. That's got to hurt their bottom line, but now I never lose the remote, because I always have my phone with me. I wish I could control everything with my phone.

You largely can - check out Roomie Remote...
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post #9 of 61 Old 01-25-2013, 04:17 PM
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This news makes me sad. What happens if a few years from now I need to use their web interface to update my remote? Will it still be available? Will it be updated with stuff that just cam out?
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post #10 of 61 Old 01-25-2013, 04:34 PM
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I purchase the Harmony 1100 had it programmed to include all my equipment only downer is the battery life.
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post #11 of 61 Old 01-25-2013, 04:59 PM
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I've had 2 Harmonys and buttons started failing on both of them after about 2 years...the volume control on the 1st one and the right-directional on my current Harmony One. The One has also never handled input switching on my Panasonic projector correctly. I contacted them about it and they said it was my Onkyo receiver sending some screwy signal and wouldn't allow me to swap out the remote, but it worked with my 1st Logitech remote, so what gives? I'm currently using the Roomie remote on my Ipad with no issues, but yeah, I kinda prefer to have buttons rather than touch-screen but I won't be buying Logitech again.
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post #12 of 61 Old 01-25-2013, 05:09 PM
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I guess I'm in the tablet/handheld camp. I can control everything from my handheld, so I never got the Harmony fascination.
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post #13 of 61 Old 01-25-2013, 06:20 PM
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First the squeezebox mess and now the remotes. Hey you wealthy silicon valley types. Buy this and make it great
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post #14 of 61 Old 01-25-2013, 11:12 PM
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tried the tablet thing with the roomie or whatever it's called. went back to my harmony.
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post #15 of 61 Old 01-25-2013, 11:33 PM
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I have a harming one controlling 7 devices. The device database is amazingly comprehensive and the build quality excellent for this model.
The harmony one has the absolute best ergonomic design with well positioned sculpted buttons to allow for usage in the dark. The harmony touch is a travesty of design. Any user test would quickly highlight the flaw in putting the most frequently used buttons at the top.

Sometimes old fashioned sculpted buttons are the best for seamless operation.
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post #16 of 61 Old 01-26-2013, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superleo View Post

For the cool factor tablets are great, don't forget Harmony already has the "Harmony Link" that works with the Ipad. However, there is nothing like hard buttons for a remote. To me their "One" is their best remote yet.

Whomever buys it, if they do the right marketing for it, and keep up the support will be getting a great asset.

I own harmony link, simply put, they totally screwed up the software. In theory it works fine, it sets up and gets going pretty easy. But as you use it from day to day you start hating it. Everytime you turn on your phone the thing has to connect, it cant hold a connection, and it takes time, it crashes fairly often, and sometimes it just takes a really long time to connect for no known reason. They linked it to the online service instead of allowing you to keep a copy of all the information on the device. After over a year of putting up with crap its no wonder they started posting losses. People were freaking sick of it and the reviews were horrible.
Sad part is it could have been a great product. And the only thing between them and having a monopoly over universal remotes was software engineers and a few really bad decisions. They could have opened it up and allowed people to tap into the remote codes too.

Anyhow logitech has alot wrong with it, the biggest thing they needed to realize is that as alot of people who do very little on computers went mobile and to touch screen smart phones they would need to down size their company. That doesnt mean kill divisions or sell them, it means simply make the company smaller and more efficient to deal with lower sales. Instead they kept trying to make products and only half finish them. They also totally missed the boat on mechanical keyboards for years. People go and tell them exactly whats wrong and they are just way to slow to fix it or come out with a new product.

I own alot of logitech products but I think they just dont have what it takes any more. Selling any one division wont save bad management.
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post #17 of 61 Old 01-26-2013, 05:20 AM
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Wow I'm shocked. My harmony one made my system easy to operate for both me and my fiancé. She was the main reason I got it. It ended phone calls about the tv on and no sound and vice versa. I hope they keep up the support of the site. Hard buttons are simply just better. I have an iPhone and an iPad with Yamaha apps loaded, but I prefer the harmony.
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post #18 of 61 Old 01-26-2013, 06:13 AM
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I started off being a non believer of Harmony until I tried it and fell in love with it. When renovating the theater room and having all my gear tucked away, I didn't get a chance to hook up the IR Receiver so I was using my iphone with my Pre-Pro. Let me tell you that I certainly missed having a hard button remote. Tablet/Phone applications are great and I do enjoy them as well, but my phone is locked all the time and then once your phone is sync'ed up with your Wifi, then you get all the info. That was the only drawback really is that you don't get instant remote capabilities without going through 2-3 steps.

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post #19 of 61 Old 01-26-2013, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pappaduke View Post

Wow I'm shocked. My harmony one made my system easy to operate for both me and my fiancé. She was the main reason I got it. It ended phone calls about the tv on and no sound and vice versa. I hope they keep up the support of the site. Hard buttons are simply just better. I have an iPhone and an iPad with Yamaha apps loaded, but I prefer the harmony.

I agree. Phones/tablets are great if you are single, but if you're a couple/family using a home theater (like me), a remote like the harmony is much better. Since I bought my Harmony 700 a year ago, everything is easier, mostly for my wife! :-)
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post #20 of 61 Old 01-26-2013, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoozthatat View Post

Hopefully they can rebound. As it stands the best universal remotes out there are Harmonys.

agreed. first and only universal remote i've ever used that actually replaced all my other remotes.

two big concerns, first, how long will they keep adding devices to their database?
and even more importantly
since EVERYTHING is hosted at THEIR end(always hated this btw) how long until the remotes i paid good money for can no long be updated at all?

as for universal remotes heading towards tablets, i REALLY REALLY hope not. i will NEVER use a touchscreen only remote ever again. I NEED physical buttons. the harmony one was the best of both worlds imo, nearly perfect

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post #21 of 61 Old 01-26-2013, 08:33 AM
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This is sad news but altogether not surprising; the Harmony Link was half-baked and IMO the Harmony Touch was a total disappointment and a step back from the One in usability. Logitech has really neglected the line and made some puzzling product intros. I've purchased a lot of Harmony remotes for myself and my family (a 550, a 700, three 650s, and a Harmony One) and I've always loved their potential and the fact that for what they cost, nothing can really compete. One the other hand, their programming can be frustrating and the more complicated a system gets, the less reliable a harmony gets - not switching inputs correctly, having to program your equipment as a completely different model than what you have to make it work, etc. - not the most fun.Reliability is another thing, too - half of the Harmony remotes I've had have developed problems inside of two years, like the remote randomly rebooting, buttons on either side of the screen not working, and the battery inside my One swelling up and almost getting stuck inside the remote.

Hopefully Logitech or whoever buys the Harmony line will continue to support our models, and I'm even more hopeful that whoever buys the line can fully realize its potential.

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post #22 of 61 Old 01-26-2013, 10:54 AM
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Really hope logitech gets out of this ok.. They really put out an excellent product. Sure hope the Harmony series doesn't die. Need my current Harmony One and Harmony 650 to continue to be supported, and am looking forward to future remotes. (although I WAS disappointed with the new "Touch"), I hope a decent 3rd party company buys it, supports current products, improves the software and listens to it's customers for future hardware updates.- if a name brand takes over you may see issues with some manufacturers not being supported.

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post #23 of 61 Old 01-26-2013, 11:20 AM
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Whoa... I was going to get a harmony remote next month.. should I be looking for something else now?
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post #24 of 61 Old 01-26-2013, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SubaruB4 View Post

Whoa... I was going to get a harmony remote next month.. should I be looking for something else now?

I just bought a second Harmony remote a few weeks ago, and I am thinking about returning it...

It is a great remote and I love it. But if they turn the web site off, then it will be impossible to change the settings on my remote which could make it a useless electronics item.
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post #25 of 61 Old 01-26-2013, 02:10 PM
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This makes me sad frown.gif I was thinking of getting a new one soon after mine has suffered a harsh life in a student home for 4 years. I hope someone that wants to continue the brand buys them.
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post #26 of 61 Old 01-26-2013, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franklyfred View Post

First the squeezebox mess and now the remotes. Hey you wealthy silicon valley types. Buy this and make it great

don't forget the Revue, which went from promising htpc/streamer box platform to abandoned in less than 12 months.

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post #27 of 61 Old 01-26-2013, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsoccer33 View Post

don't forget the Revue, which went from promising htpc/streamer box platform to abandoned in less than 12 months.

I'd argue that the Revue wasn't the problem. The problem was GoogleTV and that abhorrid OS/platform.

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post #28 of 61 Old 01-26-2013, 08:14 PM
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Universal remotes are all flawed because they cannot completely give the feel or button geography of all the remotes they place. Is this the fault of the makers - partially. Only during the last several years have we seen original remotes take on butter design that are all somewhat similar on basic features. Logitech however, often doesn't think out their remotes and certainly charges far more than they should along with making way too many models. Some may disagree.

One of the failures of Logitech was not providing a an IOS or counterpart software early enough to capture that market. Also they had an opportunity to make a "half" remote that is completed by an "i" device or similar. There are now other makers doing this who realize that all touch is a poor substitute and all button seems to have lost its flare.

Hopefully, they will find a way to reduce the number of remotes, make them more logical in button design and more. I have used their remotes and another brand that was more complex. Logitech beats the other remote in ease of set up (for the most part) but the more "Universal" remote is way more flexible and powerful.

Roomie, Irule and the rest of the software to "i" device and similar may be en vogue now but the lack of buttons in some instances is a real set back as one (as we know) has to look at the remote to make changes.

Just an opinion.
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post #29 of 61 Old 01-26-2013, 10:09 PM
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This is sad news, but I can understand part of it. They need to create a remote that also runs via IP. It's the way future control will be done. They also need to be able to control other things like lights, shades, etc like some others do (Control4, URC, Savant, etc.). I don't want you to think I don't like Harmony or Logitech, just what they need to survive. I have three Harmony Ones (yes, three) and a multitude of Logitech products (mice, keyboards, computer cams, etc.). They make great products but just have fallen behind in the universal remote department. Just my opinion. I do hope they bounce back...

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post #30 of 61 Old 01-26-2013, 10:10 PM
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It's a shame. I've really enjoyed my harmony remotes. I liked just being able to plug in a USB cable and get some basic functionality going in a couple minutes flat. Sure, coordinating the whole system took a few minutes more for setup, but all in all it worked for me.

Will they be dropping support for existing remotes? Guess that's the one downside to having to rely on their software/servers to set things up...
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