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mtn-tech's Avatar mtn-tech
06:34 AM Liked: 150
post #61 of 76
07-19-2013 | Posts: 1,077
Joined: Feb 2013
Great discussion of the Oppo 105 - I've had mine for a few months now and love it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

The point of this device - and it is a decidedly small target - is that it would be possible to pass uncompressed 5.1/7.1 soundtracks directly to a stack of amps.

Or to a really nice 5/7 ch multi-channel amp or a combination of both. I have a big 7 channel amp for the surround / back with spare channels for a future upgrade to 9.2 and bigger Bryston amps for the L/R front and center.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Health Nut View Post

I'm just not seeing how I can use this kind of unit because I have 2 kinds of setups: High end main setup, and a secondary setup ... This kind of product is kind of a 'tweener' to me...

I have both system integrated into one. For stereo, using the 105's balanced outputs to feed a high quality balanced pre-amp which drives my L/R front Bryston amp. Also using the 105's 7.1 RCA outputs to feed the L/R Front HT bypass on the preamp and directly to the inputs on the center amp and multi-channel amp for multi-channel sound.

I guess you could call this a 'tweener' system, but it is really a "builder" system which will allow me to add a high-end surround processor down the road without throwing away anything. And because the 105 has reference quality DACs and balanced outputs, I don't need an external DAC which saved me at least $1000 - more than the cost of the upgrade from the 103.

My favorite thing about this type of system is the simplicity. The 105 is the hub of the system - it plays the discs and USB files, decodes the surround, and does it for both music and movies. My old system had a CD, DAC, DVD, Pre-pro, Preamp, and amps - nearly 30 connections. The new one only BD, Preamp, and amps and way less than 20 connections. Simple and sounds great!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidK442 View Post

Is the purpose of using seperate amplifiers simply to gain more wattage than any reciever can deliver? If the belief is that going this route will improve sound quality I would love to see a link to a double blind listening panel that proves a difference between any modern electronics.

Yes, to get more power than any AVR can deliver and to use external amps that are not embedded in an AVR which has to be upgraded every time there is a new surround format - historically about every 5 years. You can buy a high power / high current AVR, but they are very expensive, very heavy, and run hot - and those excellent amps are permanently connected to a surround decoder and video switcher that will be obsolete when the next disc format is released.

There are 100's of threads taking about hearing the difference between AVR amps and external amps - you can read them and have your own opinion. Just watch for the phrases "assuming equal power between the two" or "comparing similar power output" - it is always there. Nobody argues about the fact that more power makes a difference in the dynamics and the bass that you are going to hear - you don't even need a DBT to hear it. When you switch from a 100wpc AVR to a couple of 300wpc amps you won't believe what your speakers can do.
bobpaule's Avatar bobpaule
03:43 PM Liked: 28
post #62 of 76
08-26-2013 | Posts: 1,410
Joined: Jul 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

One could use a 'bargain' AVR as an HDMI switcher and still have the Oppo be the DAC. The real question is, how good a DAC do you get for the extra $700?

That is when you get a stereo preamplifier with processor bypass mode, and the giant monoblock amplifiers:)
Audiophilia is a bad disease, how bout the 3k Nordost balanced interconnects?
Milwaukeekid's Avatar Milwaukeekid
06:49 PM Liked: 10
post #63 of 76
09-10-2013 | Posts: 11
Joined: Jan 2010
Quote:
I guess you could call this a 'tweener' system, but it is really a "builder" system which will allow me to add a high-end surround processor down the road without throwing away anything. And because the 105 has reference quality DACs and balanced outputs, I don't need an external DAC which saved me at least $1000 - more than the cost of the upgrade from the 103.

mtn-tech - I've been trying to figure out what to purchase as the first major piece to my system. After reading all the threads on the 105 and waffling between an AVR+cheap Blu-Ray or the 105, thanks for getting to the true benefit for getting the 105 as the hub for me. I'm thinking I would have to spend well over $2,500 - $3,000 or more to get an AVR that can handle the same level of video up-conversion, audio quality and amp power output + a DAC that can handle the quality digital audio. Also, then I'm locked into a single unit that is probably already weeks away from extinction based on today's market product cycles.

Thanks!
mtn-tech's Avatar mtn-tech
07:13 AM Liked: 150
post #64 of 76
09-11-2013 | Posts: 1,077
Joined: Feb 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milwaukeekid View Post

After reading all the threads on the 105 and waffling between an AVR+cheap Blu-Ray or the 105, thanks for getting to the true benefit for getting the 105 as the hub for me. I'm thinking I would have to spend well over $2,500 - $3,000 or more to get an AVR that can handle the same level of video up-conversion, audio quality and amp power output + a DAC that can handle the quality digital audio. Also, then I'm locked into a single unit that is probably already weeks away from extinction based on today's market product cycles.

That was exactly my logic, except that I was considering a $1000+ Pre-Pro because I already had amps. I got my 7 x 200w amp used for around $1500 (Outlaw 7700 / ATI 2007) and if I was sane that would be the only amp I needed - that plus the Oppo is less than your AVR price range and amps won't have to be changed when you upgrade. It makes me happy to know that when i do upgrade, it will probably be just a new Oppo with the latest disc / video / surround format (and probably a new TV).

If you are only interested in digital sources and you don't have too many for the 105 it actually saves money. Hard to believe that a $1200 disc player could be considered a bargain, but when you figure you don't need to buy a $700+ hi-res DAC (for USB sources / 192k files) or a $1000+ Pre-Pro (for surround decoding / multi-channel volume), it really is very cost effective and makes for an ideal first piece for building a system. Oppo has a very sound business model.

Supporting so many formats makes the 105 a great source component for a minimalist system, especially if you already have external amps. And I am really enjoying the simplicity of my system. It doesn't require a lot of steps to get from music to theater - just put in a different disc or switch to a different file.

I am also thinking about pulling my stereo preamp (with HT bypass) out of my system, I don't really use it. I usually just leave it in bypass mode and use the Oppo's volume control - I cannot hear the difference. The only thing the Oppo doesn't give me is additional surround modes like Dolby Pro Logic IIx or all-channel music for 2 channel sources - I would need a Pre-Pro for that and then I would need the stereo preamp with HT bypass. But i'm going to stay minimalist for now.
mtn-tech's Avatar mtn-tech
05:32 PM Liked: 150
post #65 of 76
12-22-2013 | Posts: 1,077
Joined: Feb 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milwaukeekid View Post

I've been trying to figure out what to purchase as the first major piece to my system. After reading all the threads on the 105 and waffling between an AVR+cheap Blu-Ray or the 105, thanks for getting to the true benefit for getting the 105 as the hub for me. I'm thinking I would have to spend well over $2,500 - $3,000 or more to get an AVR that can handle the same level of video up-conversion, audio quality and amp power output + a DAC that can handle the quality digital audio. Also, then I'm locked into a single unit that is probably already weeks away from extinction based on today's market product cycles.

Hey Milwaukee,

Did you get your 105? How are you liking it? I still haven't used all the features or inputs, but I have really enjoyed using the Oppo 105 and really like the way that it simplifies my system and sounds so great. They already updated the 103 so it is possible that they will be releasing a new version, but I won't upgrade until there is 4k video available or Oppo adds additional surround processing modes - like Dolby Pro Logic IIx or all-channel music for 2 channel sources - are you listening Oppo?
mtn-tech's Avatar mtn-tech
11:47 AM Liked: 150
post #66 of 76
05-08-2014 | Posts: 1,077
Joined: Feb 2013
When using your Oppo BDP-105 as a PrePro, what issues have you had? Any new features that would make it more useful in this configuration? I hope Oppo listens to how people are using their product so they can add the best possible features in the next version. These are some of the issues / wishes that I've had using my BDP-105 as a Preamp and multi-channel Pre-Pro:

Lack of additional surround processing modes
  • When I was setting up my new system I tried a surround processor before deciding that I wanted to use the Oppo exclusively. The Oppo does everything as well as the surround processor except that I miss some of the surround processing modes. Nearly every PrePro has some additional surround modes, the ones I would really like to use are Dolby Pro Logic II and 5/7 channel stereo (all channel music) - it would be great if Oppo could add those. Is it licencing cost or processing power that doesn't allow it?

Additional Surround Channels
  • Most modern PrePros and Surround Processors also have the capability for more that 7.1 channels - It would be great if there were an additional two outputs that could be configured for Front Height / Front Width speakers. Unlike some others, I don't mind running all my multi-channel speakers (C,LS,RS,LB,RB,etc) via unbalanced RCA outputs. Balanced for the L/R mains with 2-channel source material is a requirement, but I made sure that all my amps have switchable inputs (RCA/XLR) on each channel independently for the other speakers.

Bass Management - LFE With Full Range Mains (or with monitors with external crossover and subs)
  • I'm not sure why this is so complicated: Music if my first priority which is why I bought the Oppo in the first place. So I want either full range main speakers or monitors with an external crossover and subs - I chose the latter because of space constraints and the flexibility of being able to move subs. In other words, I don't need the Oppo to support 2.1 for music - I use my Oppo as a 2- Channel preamp for music with full range output to the balanced outputs.

    I also want to use my Oppo as a multi-channel PrePro for movies and multi-channel music - some have a LFE channel and in this case I want to send the low bass from any speakers configured as "small" along with the LFE information to the subs. The mains are configured as "large" and don't need the Oppo to apply a crossover. If I have true full range mains (or main monitors with external crossover and subs), I need an option to **add LFE output to "Large" speakers**. I don't think the Oppo can do this.

    My solution is to turn the Oppo configuration of the sub to "On" and use the ".1" LFE output connected to the second input of each sub so that the subs actually sum the Main L/R bass with the LFE information. If I had true full range Mains with no subs, I wouldn't even have this option and would have to set the Oppo configuration of the sub to "Off" and lose all LFE information. An option to **Add LFE output to "Large" speakers** would correct this. Am I crazy?

wse's Avatar wse
08:01 PM Liked: 376
post #67 of 76
05-09-2014 | Posts: 7,045
Joined: Mar 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtn-tech View Post

When using your Oppo BDP-105 as a PrePro, what issues have you had? Any new features that would make it more useful in this configuration? I hope Oppo listens to how people are using their product so they can add the best possible features in the next version. These are some of the issues / wishes that I've had using my BDP-105 as a Preamp and multi-channel Pre-Pro:

Lack of additional surround processing modes
  • When I was setting up my new system I tried a surround processor before deciding that I wanted to use the Oppo exclusively. The Oppo does everything as well as the surround processor except that I miss some of the surround processing modes. Nearly every PrePro has some additional surround modes, the ones I would really like to use are Dolby Pro Logic II and 5/7 channel stereo (all channel music) - it would be great if Oppo could add those. Is it licencing cost or processing power that doesn't allow it?

Additional Surround Channels
  • Most modern PrePros and Surround Processors also have the capability for more that 7.1 channels - It would be great if there were an additional two outputs that could be configured for Front Height / Front Width speakers. Unlike some others, I don't mind running all my multi-channel speakers (C,LS,RS,LB,RB,etc) via unbalanced RCA outputs. Balanced for the L/R mains with 2-channel source material is a requirement, but I made sure that all my amps have switchable inputs (RCA/XLR) on each channel independently for the other speakers.

Bass Management - LFE With Full Range Mains (or with monitors with external crossover and subs)
  • I'm not sure why this is so complicated: Music if my first priority which is why I bought the Oppo in the first place. So I want either full range main speakers or monitors with an external crossover and subs - I chose the latter because of space constraints and the flexibility of being able to move subs. In other words, I don't need the Oppo to support 2.1 for music - I use my Oppo as a 2- Channel preamp for music with full range output to the balanced outputs.

    I also want to use my Oppo as a multi-channel PrePro for movies and multi-channel music - some have a LFE channel and in this case I want to send the low bass from any speakers configured as "small" along with the LFE information to the subs. The mains are configured as "large" and don't need the Oppo to apply a crossover. If I have true full range mains (or main monitors with external crossover and subs), I need an option to **add LFE output to "Large" speakers**. I don't think the Oppo can do this.

    My solution is to turn the Oppo configuration of the sub to "On" and use the ".1" LFE output connected to the second input of each sub so that the subs actually sum the Main L/R bass with the LFE information. If I had true full range Mains with no subs, I wouldn't even have this option and would have to set the Oppo configuration of the sub to "Off" and lose all LFE information. An option to **Add LFE output to "Large" speakers** would correct this. Am I crazy?

Hopefully they will add this in the new version OPPO BDP-115D
wmcclain's Avatar wmcclain
08:03 PM Liked: 375
post #68 of 76
05-09-2014 | Posts: 17,683
Joined: May 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Hopefully they will add this in the new version OPPO BDP-115D

Which I hope everyone understands is mythical.

-Bill
wse's Avatar wse
06:00 PM Liked: 376
post #69 of 76
05-10-2014 | Posts: 7,045
Joined: Mar 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

Which I hope everyone understands is mythical.

-Bill

Saying they will never release a pre/pro mad.gif
wmcclain's Avatar wmcclain
06:11 PM Liked: 375
post #70 of 76
05-10-2014 | Posts: 17,683
Joined: May 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Saying they will never release a pre/pro mad.gif

Your mind certainly jumps about.

-Bill
wse's Avatar wse
12:05 AM Liked: 376
post #71 of 76
05-11-2014 | Posts: 7,045
Joined: Mar 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

Your mind certainly jumps about.-Bill

Sure what ever? You are the one saying OPPO will never release a pre/ pro, I am just hopping they will! But then again maybe you have insider information rolleyes.gif
wmcclain's Avatar wmcclain
05:13 AM Liked: 375
post #72 of 76
05-11-2014 | Posts: 17,683
Joined: May 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

You are the one saying OPPO will never release a pre/ pro

Reading is fundamental.

-Bill
noah katz's Avatar noah katz
01:50 PM Liked: 183
post #73 of 76
05-11-2014 | Posts: 20,776
Joined: Apr 1999
I read what you said the same way as wse.

If you mean something different, just say so.
wmcclain's Avatar wmcclain
01:54 PM Liked: 375
post #74 of 76
05-11-2014 | Posts: 17,683
Joined: May 2006
Did you read me saying OPPO is never going to do something? Where did I write that?

The OPPO BDP-115D is a mythical product. No such thing has been announced. We have no idea what features future OPPO products will have. People are loading so much "I want" fantasy on to OPPO they cannot help but be disappointed.

-Bill
wse's Avatar wse
03:01 PM Liked: 376
post #75 of 76
05-11-2014 | Posts: 7,045
Joined: Mar 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

Did you read me saying OPPO is never going to do something? Where did I write that?

The OPPO BDP-115D is a mythical product. No such thing has been announced. We have no idea what features future OPPO products will have. People are loading so much "I want" fantasy on to OPPO they cannot help but be disappointed.

-Bill

Why fantasy? It's all available today just if a company like OPP.O wants to make it happen biggrin.gif
noah katz's Avatar noah katz
07:35 PM Liked: 183
post #76 of 76
05-12-2014 | Posts: 20,776
Joined: Apr 1999
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

Did you read me saying OPPO is never going to do something? Where did I write that?

I stand corrected.

Mythical and never are not the same.
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