Oppo BDP-105: Upping the 'Separates' Ante - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 76 Old 01-26-2013, 08:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Is the new BDP-105 from Oppo the audiophile's dream Blu-Ray player? Oppo is one of the go-to brands for higher-end disc players, their latest entry is a very serious piece of gear. With the BDP-105 Oppo has created an audiophile-quality Blu-Ray player that offers an intriguing possibility: Eliminating the AVR altogether. Using the player and amps exclusively for a 'purist' home theater rig. Because the BDP-105 includes two HDMI inputs and on-board DACs with analog 7.1 outputs, it is capable of performing tasks usually reserved for AVRs, like video switching and upscaling of outside sources. It is possible to link the BDP-105 to seven monoblock amps (or some combo of multi-channel amps) and perform full calibration and bass management. Why bother? So that when a movie is playing back in DTS Master Audio or Dolby TrueHD it plays through the shortest possible signal path, with minimal signal processing. That's the audiophile ideal, brought to home theater. Of course there have been other Blu-Ray players offering preamp outputs, but few that offer all of the input and switching options of Oppo's new player.

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The 105's connectivity options won't match any decent receiver, but its connectivity suite is a lot more extensive than most Blu-ray players. The Oppo has two HDMI inputs, so you can connect external devices such as set-top boxes and network streaming devices, three USB 2.0 ports, coaxial and optical digital inputs for satellite boxes, televisions, video-game consoles, etc., and there's a built-in headphone amplifier. The BDP-105's extensive bass management options are on par with a lot of AV receivers.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-57565878-47/oppo-bdp-105-not-your-average-blu-ray-player/

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post #2 of 76 Old 01-26-2013, 04:02 PM
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Isn't the Oppo BDP-105 basically just a AVR with a blu-ray reader in it? XD
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post #3 of 76 Old 01-26-2013, 04:38 PM - Thread Starter
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The point of this device - and it is a decidedly small target - is that it would be possible to pass uncompressed 5.1/7.1 soundtracks directly to a stack of amps. This Oppo can get you as close to pure, unaltered reproduction of an original motion picture soundtrack as possible. You are likely correct, a high-end AVR will likely achieve the same quality but this is more appealing to a purist, and for some folks (DIY) who already have the amps, it's an affordable shortcut to a seriously good quality source.
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Isn't the Oppo BDP-105 basically just a AVR with a blu-ray reader in it? XD

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post #4 of 76 Old 01-26-2013, 04:38 PM
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The 105 is awesome but if you are not using analog, it's not worth the extra cost of the 103. I've had both, I actually ended up selling my 105 for a 103 as I stream most everything.

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post #5 of 76 Old 01-26-2013, 04:46 PM - Thread Starter
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You beat me to it! Yes, that's what I was going to say. No analog = save the money ($700) and get the 103 if the rest of the feature set appeals to you.
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The 105 is awesome but if you are not using analog, it's not worth the extra cost of the 103. I've had both, I actually ended up selling my 105 for a 103 as I stream most everything.

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post #6 of 76 Old 01-26-2013, 04:55 PM
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Is the 103 the exact same as the 105 besides the audio?
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post #7 of 76 Old 01-26-2013, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Right. The 103 even features 7.1 outputs and HDMI switching. The 105 is all about the analog audio output, literally $700 worth of it. "The biggest change, though, is to the BDP-105, which now sports two ESS Sabre32 Reference DACs, a newly designed Toroidal linear power supply, dedicated stereo outputs with both RCA and XLR balanced connections, and a headphone amplifier connected directly to the DAC."
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Is the 103 the exact same as the 105 besides the audio?

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post #8 of 76 Old 01-26-2013, 05:01 PM
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How well does it's room correction work? That would be the first major question. By the time you add external amplification you are looking, most likely, at least $2200 if not easily more. There are a lot of options in that space. HTPC with a 7XXX series Radeon will give the Oppo a run for it's money (or a drubbing) with more options.

The 105 offers a lot for the $$ if the circumstances are right for it.

An audiophile likes to talk about how much they spent and how good it sounds.

A DIY'er likes to talk about how little they spent and how good it sounds.

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post #9 of 76 Old 01-26-2013, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

The point of this device - and it is a decidedly small target - is that it would be possible to pass uncompressed 5.1/7.1 soundtracks directly to a stack of amps. This Oppo can get you as close to pure, unaltered reproduction of an original motion picture soundtrack as possible. You are likely correct, a high-end AVR will likely achieve the same quality but this is more appealing to a purist, and for some folks (DIY) who already have the amps, it's an affordable shortcut to a seriously good quality source.

I'm joking, saying it's more AVR than blu-ray player so it should just be called an Oppo home theatre receiver with built in blu-ray wink.gif
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post #10 of 76 Old 01-26-2013, 05:10 PM - Thread Starter
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You're talking to someone who uses a HTPC for everything. I still love a good quality component, but I'm with you (except I rock Nvidia). As for the cost of amplification, I think one can do very well with some iNukes and some fan mods and this unit. So many options out there, nice to have a solid blu-ray player that can handle some extra tasks, even if it is a niche product.
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How well does it's room correction work? That would be the first major question. By the time you add external amplification you are looking, most likely, at least $2200 if not easily more. There are a lot of options in that space. HTPC with a 7XXX series Radeon will give the Oppo a run for it's money (or a drubbing) with more options.

The 105 offers a lot for the $$ if the circumstances are right for it.

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post #11 of 76 Old 01-26-2013, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinjuku View Post

How well does it's room correction work? That would be the first major question. By the time you add external amplification you are looking, most likely, at least $2200 if not easily more. There are a lot of options in that space. HTPC with a 7XXX series Radeon will give the Oppo a run for it's money (or a drubbing) with more options.

The 105 offers a lot for the $$ if the circumstances are right for it.

Why only 7XXX radeon? You could use nvidia too, as long as it has dolby truehd / dts master bitstream support right?
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post #12 of 76 Old 01-26-2013, 05:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I bought a Pioneer Elite SC-57 just for that capability. Feeding it with a GTX 660 Ti. Basically the AVR is a super-fancy soundcard to feed my amps. Fine with me, I got it open-box for 1/3 of retail. Rocks my world nightly.

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Why only 7XXX radeon? You could use nvidia too, as long as it has dolby truehd / dts master bitstream support right?

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post #13 of 76 Old 01-26-2013, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

I bought a Pioneer Elite SC-57 just for that capability. Feeding it with a GTX 660 Ti. Basically the AVR is a super-fancy soundcard to feed my amps. Fine with me, I got it open-box for 1/3 of retail. Rocks my world nightly.

Yeah that's what I do too, I just didn't know if the radeon's had some special thing that the nvidia's don't have.
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post #14 of 76 Old 01-26-2013, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

The point of this device - and it is a decidedly small target - is that it would be possible to pass uncompressed 5.1/7.1 soundtracks directly to a stack of amps. This Oppo can get you as close to pure, unaltered reproduction of an original motion picture soundtrack as possible. You are likely correct, a high-end AVR will likely achieve the same quality but this is more appealing to a purist, and for some folks (DIY) who already have the amps, it's an affordable shortcut to a seriously good quality source.

Affordable shortcut to good quality, yes. But I don;t see how this is any more "direct" than an Oppo BDP 83 passing its digital output to a Meridian 861 or such. In other words, there is still no appeal to people who own higher end audio processors. I could see using this in a secondary room, or for somebody planning a new setup on a budget perhaps. I'm just not seeing how I can use this kind of unit because I have 2 kinds of setups: High end main setup, and a secondary setup. the secondary setup in another room is going to use a receiver, perhaps Denon or other decent receiver. If I purchased this Oppo, it would be overkill for a secondary room, and also require seperate amps or a multichannel amp, which is much more than a receiver.

This kind of product is kind of a 'tweener' to me... not good enought for the highest end systems, and too good for a secondary system. That being said, I am happy this kind of option exists, but cannot figure out a way I would ever use it.
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post #15 of 76 Old 01-26-2013, 10:04 PM
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Hi,

Came to this thread hoping to get an answer to that question : "If I use the analog outputs of my BDP-105 directly into my power amps, would I have a result that would be on par with the BDP-105 connected via analog into my old Arcam AV9 pre/pro or will the result be significantly poorer ? ".

I used to have a BDP-95 before I replaced it with the BDP-105. I tried to connect my power amps directly into the BDP-95 : result was AWFUL !

It seems that the BDP-105 improved that part a lot. So I was wondering if it could be done and if I could get rid of the AV9... as there's really nothing else hooked up to it than my BDP-105 now :-(

So if anyone has tried the direct path from BDP-105 to power amps, I'd be interested in his thoughts.

Regards.

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post #16 of 76 Old 01-26-2013, 10:06 PM
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Plus there are other issues. If you have satellite, Xbox, etc there is no way to route the audio through the Oppo. Not to mention the lack of HDMI switching.

-Brian

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post #17 of 76 Old 01-27-2013, 05:18 AM - Thread Starter
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One could use a 'bargain' AVR as an HDMI switcher and still have the Oppo be the DAC. The real question is, how good a DAC do you get for the extra $700?
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Plus there are other issues. If you have satellite, Xbox, etc there is no way to route the audio through the Oppo. Not to mention the lack of HDMI switching.

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post #18 of 76 Old 01-27-2013, 06:15 AM
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Affordable shortcut to good quality, yes. But I don;t see how this is any more "direct" than an Oppo BDP 83 passing its digital output to a Meridian 861 or such. In other words, there is still no appeal to people who own higher end audio processors. I could see using this in a secondary room, or for somebody planning a new setup on a budget perhaps. I'm just not seeing how I can use this kind of unit because I have 2 kinds of setups: High end main setup, and a secondary setup. the secondary setup in another room is going to use a receiver, perhaps Denon or other decent receiver. If I purchased this Oppo, it would be overkill for a secondary room, and also require seperate amps or a multichannel amp, which is much more than a receiver.

This kind of product is kind of a 'tweener' to me... not good enought for the highest end systems, and too good for a secondary system. That being said, I am happy this kind of option exists, but cannot figure out a way I would ever use it.

I have an oppo95 connected directly to a Bryston 3bst for mains and a Lexicon 512 (5ch 3bst by Bryston). I originally connected a ps3 to an Arcam avr300. When I got the 95 I tried connecting it first to the arcam analog inputs in pure bypass mode as well as processed mode. then I tried dropping the Arcam out of the loop as dewscribed above and I got a dramatic improvement in sound. I tried the pre-outs on the Arcam and the internal amps, nothing came close to the 95 direct to the amps.
I have a dedicated HT room and only play blu-rays or streamed movies through the 95, or music through CD, HD-FLAC. The 95 is a perfect fit, the only trouble is that there is no room correction. But moderate room treatment and careful speaker/seating placement does things that electronic room correction can't... I would like to do an A-B comparison, but the cost of a pre-pro or receiver good enough to not degrade the signal is too high to experiment.
The connectivity of the 105 is appealing to me, I'd like to connect a laptop for gaming, etc.

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post #19 of 76 Old 01-27-2013, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

One could use a 'bargain' AVR as an HDMI switcher and still have the Oppo be the DAC. The real question is, how good a DAC do you get for the extra $700?

My 95 was a huge improvement to the Arcam AVR300 DAC as well as my admittedly grainy and bright Arcam 7se CD player. We compared it to a CD player (I'll edit when I verify the player) in my brother's system (3BST, PSB Stratus Golds) in an untreated, slightly live but decent sounding room and got a significant change in sound. The CD player sounded warmer but lacked the detail and imaging of the 95. The Bryston/Startus Gold combo is slightly lean sounding in open, live rooms and the 95 reflected this - it seems like a very accurate, neutral sound IMO. The 95 was the clear winner, with the cd player only being comparable because of its synergy in the room... you lost detail and imaging in favour of slighlty warmer sound that offset the brightness of the room - despite this the 95 was still preferable, and even room treatment to deaden first reflections would have made it a slaughter...
I've done a lot of reading and the 105 seems to sound very similar to the 95 despite the different DAC set up.

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post #20 of 76 Old 01-27-2013, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by PenguinHiFi View Post


I used to have a BDP-95 before I replaced it with the BDP-105. I tried to connect my power amps directly into the BDP-95 : result was AWFUL !

I am puzzled by this. I am running the 95 via balanced stereo cables to my amp for SACD and it's the best sound I've ever gotten from my system.
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post #21 of 76 Old 01-27-2013, 08:28 AM
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I sold my Marantz BD8002 player and purchased the Oppo-93 for the capability of playing SACDs.

I would have purchased the 95 to go with a multi-channel system vs HDMI But I was told that if I went with multi-channel, I would loose the capability of my Denon AVR to calibrate using Audyssey.

Is that still correct with the Oppo-105?

My system is a 7.3 which includes two Wides


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post #22 of 76 Old 01-27-2013, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
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There are two expectations - access to increased wattage by using external amps and a higher quality DAC than one would find on an AVR at that price point. Depending on the speakers used, an AVR - even a pricey one - could easily fail to provide adequate power to achieve reference levels in a larger room. You don't need a double-blind test to figure that out.

The 'amps can/should sound the same' argument is basically settled when it comes to solid-state gear. Competently designed solid-state amps are transparent. The Oppo 105 needs to be judged on the merits of the preamp/DAC. WIth pro amps, 1,000 watts/channel can be had for under $300 - the cost per watt is incredibly low compared to AVRs. I use pro amps and even in a smaller room I exceed the power levels my (relatively competent) AVR is capable of producing on a regular basis.
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Is the purpose of using seperate amplifiers simply to gain more wattage than any reciever can deliver?
If the belief is that going this route will improve sound quality I would love to see a link to a double blind listening panel that proves a difference between any modern electronics.
I'm not purposefully being contrary. I would love to believe there is a significant difference it is just that so far I haven't seen any scientific evidence.

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post #23 of 76 Old 01-27-2013, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
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I think the issue is the use of Audyssey EQ would require re-encoding the analog output - the extra ADC/DAC cycle would (theoretically) negate some of the benefits of the improved DAC in the 105. Of course the unit could be used with Audyssey since it has an HDMI output. As others have noted, anyone in possession of a high-end AVR or dedicated DAC/Audio Processor would not find this unit useful. Someone who owns a HTPC and a few Crown amps might find it much more appealing (that would be me) - if I had not found a $1,500 AVR on clearance for $550 I'd be giving it serious consideration. I appreciate its ability to pull double-duty as a high-end CD player that would work connected directly to an amp in a 'purist' 2-channel system.
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I sold my Marantz BD8002 player and purchased the Oppo-93 for the capability of playing SACDs.

I would have purchased the 95 to go with a multi-channel system vs HDMI But I was told that if I went with multi-channel, I would loose the capability of my Denon AVR to calibrate using Audyssey.

Is that still correct with the Oppo-105?

My system is a 7.3 which includes two Wides


m

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post #24 of 76 Old 01-27-2013, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

I think the issue is the use of Audyssey EQ would require re-encoding the analog output - the extra ADC/DAC cycle would (theoretically) negate some of the benefits of the improved DAC in the 105. Of course the unit could be used both ways since it still has an HDMI output. As others have noted, anyone in possession of a high-end AVR or dedicated DAC/Audio Processor would not find this unit useful. Someone who owns a HTPC and a few Crown amps might find it much more appealing (that would be me) - if I had not found a $1,500 AVR on clearance for $550 I'd be giving it serious consideration. I appreciate its ability to pull double-duty as a high-end CD player that would work connected directly to an amp in a 'purist' 2-channel system.

I thank you for the knowledge. I think it might be better for me let Audyssey do the work. Before Audyssey, I went with multi-channel and it was better but since I have changed to an AVR using Audyssey's XT32, the sound was much better.

I was hoping that the 105 could be used as a multi-channel and have Audyssey calibrate but it looks that is a no go same as the 95.

I now use both HDMIs on the Oppo. One to run direct to the TV and the other, which has an HDMI with silver wire, for audio to the AVR

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post #25 of 76 Old 01-27-2013, 10:46 AM
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How much "setup" is there with this unit? I was going to buy a Marantz SR5007 to use with my Krell KAV-2ch p 2-ch pre-amp. Speakers go to a Bryston 9B-SST. The idea was on the AVR to setup the speakers (Synchrony Ones) to "full range" and delete the sub. That's how I would have made it work with the Krell's HT bypass. Would I have these options on the 105?

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post #26 of 76 Old 01-27-2013, 11:09 AM - Thread Starter
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For that particular sort of connection, Oppo says this:

"Dedicated Stereo Output with XLR Balanced Connectors - The BDP-105 features a dedicated 2-channel analog output with specially optimized ES9018 DAC and output driving stages. The stereo output offers both XLR balanced and RCA single-ended connectors. The balanced output features a true differential signal path all the way from the DAC to the 3-pin XLR connector. By transmitting a pair of differential signals, the balanced output provides better common-mode noise rejection and improves signal quality."

Your Krell has balanced inputs... this player is targeted towards someone like you.

Any other issues should be covered by this blurb from the manual:

"Crossover: Allows you to set the Bass Management kick-in frequency for all speakers. When the
speaker size is set to Small in Speaker Configuration (see page 71), bass information below this
frequency is not passed to the speakers to reduce possible distortion, and if the subwoofer is
available, bass information will be redirected to the subwoofer. When all speaker sizes are set to
Large, there is no Bass Management
.
x 40Hz / 60Hz / 80Hz / 90Hz / 100Hz / 110Hz / 120Hz / 150Hz / 200Hz / 250Hz – These are
the available crossover frequencies. You can press the UP/DOWN ARROW buttons and the
ENTER buttons to select it.

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Originally Posted by olfac87 View Post

How much "setup" is there with this unit? I was going to buy a Marantz SR5007 to use with my Krell KAV-2ch p 2-ch pre-amp. Speakers go to a Bryston 9B-SST. The idea was on the AVR to setup the speakers (Synchrony Ones) to "full range" and delete the sub. That's how I would have made it work with the Krell's HT bypass. Would I have these options on the 105?

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post #27 of 76 Old 01-27-2013, 11:27 AM
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Imagic - I am still learning through all this. For the Krell, its HT bypass is RCA so that's what would run to the Oppo pre-out. Although there is a set of XLR Inputs - can they be used instead?

The subwoofer would be connected to the Krell but the Krell doesn't have a special connection for the sub for HT bypass (like, say, the Emotiva XSP-1). So the full signal would have to go from the Oppo to the Krell and the Krell would manage the bass. But that would be the case anyway if I was using the Oppo as a CD-player in 2-channel listening (analog) mode.

I think the only place I would be able to use XLT is from the amp to the pre-amp.

It seems risky to just all of a sudden not buy an AVR but I am really wondering if I need to. Your post has me thinking.

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post #28 of 76 Old 01-27-2013, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post

What's the signal path for the balanced inputs? I would think they could be used instead and it would be 'the whole point' of getting a unit like this, to have that 2-channel balanced source signal directly feeding your mains.

That's a good question. The manual only talks about having balanced inputs, not their signal path. And for the HT bypass on the RCA connections, it says "For simplified integration of an AVR surround sound processor, the S-3/PR input can be set to operate as a unity gain stage. In this Theater Throughput TM mode, when the S-3/PR input is selected, the volume and balance controls of the KAV-250pa re disabled."

But you're saying use the balanced connections. So it would look like this:
** Oppo Pre-Out XLR to Krell Input XLR
** Krell Output XLR to Bryston Input XLR

My main question would be the subwoofer and making sure that is engaged for both 2-ch listening (easy, because they are hooked to the Krell) and 5.1 (receive whatever it needs from the Oppo).

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post #29 of 76 Old 01-27-2013, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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For your unit, looks like the HT bypass is exclusive to the RCA input. To me, it seems easier/better to pick a volume level that would substitute for 'unity' and use the balanced inputs.

For bass management, what you want is to send all the bass to the front L/R speakers (connected through XLR/balanced). On the Oppo, you would set all the speakers to small except the L/R mains, which would be configured as 'large'. The Oppo will re-direct the bass to the front L/R and send it to the balanced outs and the Krell would then be able to perform its bass management on that signal.
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Originally Posted by olfac87 View Post

That's a good question. The manual only talks about having balanced inputs. And for the HT bypass on the RCA connections, it says "For simplified integration of an ,adV surround
sound processor, the S-3/PR input can be set to operate as a unity gain stage. In this Theater Throughput TM mode, when the S-3/PR input is selected, the volume and balance controls of the KAV-250pa re disabled."

But if you're right, it sounds perfect. My only question is on the subwoofer then.

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post #30 of 76 Old 01-27-2013, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WagBoss View Post

Isn't the Oppo BDP-105 basically just a AVR with a blu-ray reader in it? XD

All it needs is a volume controller. At the BDP-105 it should come with volume control so people can use it just like an AVR with BD player built-in (plus 2 HDMI inputs) and only need to feed the output to power amp.

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