REDRAY 4K Player Update - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 27 Old 01-31-2013, 05:17 AM - Thread Starter
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For anyone who has not heard of REDRAY, The RED company manufactures the famous Red 4K (actually 5K) video camera for filmmakers at a very reasonable price compared to the alternatives (RED 4K Camera). RED announced sometime ago about introducing a 4K Player called the REDRAY Player. The REDRAY player is not a disc player, but rather a 4K movie download and playback player.

At this year's CES Show in Las Vegas, Toshiba used this Redray player to demo their new Ultra HDTV displays at CES 2013.
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The Redray 4K player implements its own compression algorithm in .RED files requiring only 2.5 MB (20 Mbps) for transporting 4K content, which is roughly what HD requires today for broadcasting with MPEG-2 at its full resolution (19+ Mbps).
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The Redray player outputs 4K DCI but also UltraHD, 1080p and 720p formats with an audio of 24-bit 7.1 channel at 48 kHz, comparably lower than the Blu-ray capacity of 7.1 channels at 96 kHz or 5.1 channels at 192 kHz.

It connects via HDMI 1.4 to the 4K display for video, and it has a separate HDMI 1.3 output to connect to an A/V receiver or preamp for multi-channel audio, as some Blu-ray players already do, such as Oppo.

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The content will be supplied by a RED’s distribution platform: Odemax.com, expected to be up and running by March 2013. The platform provides filmmakers, production companies and independent distributors, direct channel access to the new cloud enabled REDRAY 4K home players.

Rodolfo La Maestra from HDTV Magazine confirmed with HDMI LLC at CES 2013 that the HDMI specification standard will introduce a new version by the first semester 2013 that as expected will include, among other features, a 60fps frame rate spec for 4K (the current HDMI version1.4 already supports 4K as 24fps and 60i, in addition to 25fps and 50i for other regions of the world).

With an impressive price tag of 1450$ MSRP, I wonder how much content will be as well as which content will be available at release.

Will you want one?



Click here for specs on REDRAY
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post #2 of 27 Old 01-31-2013, 09:11 AM
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Very interesting article!
For some this might be the beginning, an economical way to get 4K content (although I suspect content is very limited).
Perhaps this is the trickle that will turn into stream (someday).

Not for me - but it will be interesting to see if this gets any early adopter momentum?

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post #3 of 27 Old 01-31-2013, 11:53 AM
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Will you want one?
Yes

Would I be willing to spend $1450 on one?
No

I'll just wait until FIOS or Comcast offers 4K content in a few years.
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post #4 of 27 Old 01-31-2013, 12:12 PM
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Gotta be one of the most dreadful-looking rectangles you could ever devise...never mine one that commands $1500

I realize its aesthetic is of little consequence, but jesus,is this the best you can do?

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post #5 of 27 Old 01-31-2013, 12:23 PM
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Ode max update any time soon??

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post #6 of 27 Old 01-31-2013, 01:46 PM
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thanks... I'll take one now please.

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post #7 of 27 Old 01-31-2013, 02:57 PM
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Sounds like a typical RED consumer product... a lot of promises with little delivered.
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post #8 of 27 Old 01-31-2013, 03:04 PM
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And I gotta ask... how many here that are getting one actually have a 4K display?

It's crazy to think that this system is going to be a standard for 4K delivery. Remember D-THEATER D-VHS and HD DVD. Just because it's first does not make it a standard.

If the studios think 4K servers are going to be long term solutions if they really want to sell content to collectors they aren't living in reality.

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post #9 of 27 Old 01-31-2013, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toknowshita View Post

And I gotta ask... how many here that are getting one actually have a 4K display?

It's crazy to think that this system is going to be a standard for 4K delivery. Remember D-THEATER D-VHS and HD DVD. Just because it's first does not make it a standard.

If the studios think 4K servers are going to be long term solutions if they really want to sell content to collectors they aren't living in reality.


Your absolutely right that most of us won't have a 4K display for some time.

I believe theatres today are using hard drives for the new digital format. We'll have to wait and see what the new codec will bring us. I'm also curious to see how much the content will cost when it comes out. Nonetheless, the REDRAY player is still a great price considering some high-end Denon blu-ray players cost much more.

Only time will tell.

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post #10 of 27 Old 01-31-2013, 05:30 PM
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And I gotta ask... how many here that are getting one actually have a 4K display?

4K content would look mighty good on a 1080p display, just like 1080p content looked good on XGA or 720p displays.

But I'm not holding my breath for true 4K content that I want to watch anytime soon.

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post #11 of 27 Old 01-31-2013, 06:28 PM
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I don't think so! Love my Oppo too much for one. And 1080 siuts me fine with my display. IF, I was a rich man then I would have a huge screen and want the best possible. Not today though.
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post #12 of 27 Old 02-01-2013, 01:39 PM
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I wonder how the content would look on a Sony projector with reality creation, or JVC projector with EShift2? Would it be better than 1080p Bluray? Or would the 4k "emulation" (for lack of a better description) of these 2 units only do what they can do, which is the best they can do (if this makes sense)
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post #13 of 27 Old 02-01-2013, 01:48 PM
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Face it, these are interim solutions like D-VHS. There is no UHD delivery standard... in fact... the audio side takes a hit and is of a lesser standard than even Blu-ray. And no mention if it's bit-for-bit lossless. No mention of 48 fps. Also, at only 20 Mbps for UHD this is probably not the visually lossless version of Redray (or even 10 bit video). They're just trying to save on storage space at the expense of quality. Quality = higher storage requirements, even with the Redray codec.

Now Dolby and DTS (in partnership with SRS) want to move towards object oriented soundtracks... no cloud based solution has ever mentioned allowing for that. This technology takes up even more space.

We need a high caliber disc based medium with all the bells n whistles.
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post #14 of 27 Old 02-10-2013, 08:31 PM
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I’ve been keeping a curious eye on this Redray player for several months now. I must say that I’m intrigued with what I’ve read, but I’m certainly not ready to buy yet. I see headroom for a possible format war here yet. I’m fascinated with what Red has accomplished with compression ratios in the 4K realm, but how stable is it at this point?

The Red player does not take a disk. It plays downloaded media from its internal drive, which is a great idea and I’m sure the way of the future, but what about my blu-ray collection that I’ve already bought and paid for? Is there a way to load that material on the player? I’ve read that 4K media will have to be in the .RED format for the player to read. So does that mean all my blu-ray movies will have to be converted too, or is that only referring to 4K material? Too many unanswered questions at this point for me to commit to spending $1500. eek.gif

Hmmm! I think I’ll stick with my trusty Oppo for now and wait until the dust settles down some more. rolleyes.gif

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post #15 of 27 Old 01-19-2014, 09:41 AM
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The world of Red Digital has finally changed. Instead of the site saying new orders expected to be delivered within two to three weeks while those ordered a year ago lat December still have mostly not been fulfilled, the site says currently not available. Contact your bomb squad rep for details. It is refreshing to see management has finally listed to potential customers complaining about the obvious false hood of the ad. Better to know it will be delayed for an unspecified period.

Red was not officially at CES to the best of my knowledge.

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post #16 of 27 Old 01-19-2014, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

The world of Red Digital has finally changed. Instead of the site saying new orders expected to be delivered within two to three weeks while those ordered a year ago lat December still have mostly not been fulfilled, the site says currently not available. Contact your bomb squad rep for details. It is refreshing to see management has finally listed to potential customers complaining about the obvious false hood of the ad. Better to know it will be delayed for an unspecified period.

Red was not officially at CES to the best of my knowledge.

Thanks for the update Mark. Forgot all about this player.


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post #17 of 27 Old 01-19-2014, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

The world of Red Digital has finally changed. Instead of the site saying new orders expected to be delivered within two to three weeks while those ordered a year ago lat December still have mostly not been fulfilled, the site says currently not available. Contact your bomb squad rep for details. It is refreshing to see management has finally listed to potential customers complaining about the obvious false hood of the ad. Better to know it will be delayed for an unspecified period.

Red was not officially at CES to the best of my knowledge.

It's possible with the BDA finally stating they may have something to announce in the next year concerning 4k Blu-ray and DTS releasing a prototype of their MDA object based codec for consumers (called DTS-UHD), that RED is seeing that their over priced download unit may not stand a chance. That's especially if the studios don't want another costly format war. There wouldn't be content for RED in the first place.

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post #18 of 27 Old 01-19-2014, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Gotta be one of the most dreadful-looking rectangles you could ever devise...never mine one that commands $1500

I realize its aesthetic is of little consequence, but jesus,is this the best you can do?

James
What don't you like about it? I really like it, it looks futuristic. Please don't say "lack of wood trim".


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post #19 of 27 Old 01-20-2014, 10:09 AM
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if RED can also provide me internet services, this would be great.

it's a good START, but unfortunately at this point it's like buying a hydrogen fuel car. great in theory, but without the necessary infrastructure from other companies, it's totally useless.

the sad fact is, there just isn't a cheap enough, reliable enough, fast enough internet provider in my area to make this practical, yet.

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post #20 of 27 Old 01-20-2014, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven414 View Post

I’ve been keeping a curious eye on this Redray player for several months now. I must say that I’m intrigued with what I’ve read, but I’m certainly not ready to buy yet. I see headroom for a possible format war here yet. I’m fascinated with what Red has accomplished with compression ratios in the 4K realm, but how stable is it at this point?

The Red player does not take a disk. It plays downloaded media from its internal drive, which is a great idea and I’m sure the way of the future, but what about my blu-ray collection that I’ve already bought and paid for? Is there a way to load that material on the player? I’ve read that 4K media will have to be in the .RED format for the player to read. So does that mean all my blu-ray movies will have to be converted too, or is that only referring to 4K material? Too many unanswered questions at this point for me to commit to spending $1500. eek.gif

Hmmm! I think I’ll stick with my trusty Oppo for now and wait until the dust settles down some more. rolleyes.gif

good point, you'd think for well over a grand, they could put a BD disc drive in the machine to help save some rack space. you'd think it'd have all the power needed to play BD's at high quality too

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post #21 of 27 Old 04-09-2014, 04:29 AM
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According to the Red store the Redray player is now actually available for purchase, albeit with a shortage of organised 4k content.
Hopefully Mark Haflich will supply us with his thoughts on this long anticipated piece of hardware. smile.gif
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post #22 of 27 Old 04-09-2014, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

Yes

Would I be willing to spend $1450 on one?
No

I'll just wait until FIOS or Comcast offers 4K content in a few years.

basically.
if content is uber cheap, like a buck a movie, then i would consider it. but the truth is, even if the content is 'free' it'll cost me significant coinage just for the bandwidth to receive it.

i still have an issue with paying for something twice. i guess it's like buying something online and then paying for shipping, but at least when i do that online i end up paying significantly less, instead of way more.

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post #23 of 27 Old 04-10-2014, 05:13 PM
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I got this yesterday and only saw it today. I intend to write back ASAP as there's no damn way I'm having them bill me $1250 for one of these when as far as I've heard they never did any content deals so there will be zero to watch unless you are a 4K cameraman!

Our records indicate you have one or more REDRAY player(s) on order. REDRAY players are now $1250, off of backorder, and will be shipping again starting this week. Please review the currently listed specs for the REDRAY player on RED.com. We do not anticipate any further firmware development for REDRAY so the features you see are the full scope of the REDRAY player.

Please contact your BOMB SQUAD rep by 5:00pm PDT on Thursday, April 10th if you wish to no longer take delivery of your REDRAY unit(s). Otherwise, your order will begin processing.

Please do not reply directly to this email.

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post #24 of 27 Old 04-10-2014, 07:01 PM
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I got this yesterday and only saw it today. I intend to write back ASAP as there's no damn way I'm having them bill me $1250 for one of these when as far as I've heard they never did any content deals so there will be zero to watch unless you are a 4K cameraman!

Our records indicate you have one or more REDRAY player(s) on order. REDRAY players are now $1250, off of backorder, and will be shipping again starting this week. Please review the currently listed specs for the REDRAY player on RED.com. We do not anticipate any further firmware development for REDRAY so the features you see are the full scope of the REDRAY player.

Please contact your BOMB SQUAD rep by 5:00pm PDT on Thursday, April 10th if you wish to no longer take delivery of your REDRAY unit(s). Otherwise, your order will begin processing.

Please do not reply directly to this email.

It's $1,250 worth of nothing. I hope you get your order canceled.

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post #25 of 27 Old 04-10-2014, 07:08 PM
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It's $1,250 worth of nothing. I hope you get your order canceled.

Exactly. I've never seen such incompetence and massive assumptions made to keep in place a 'backorder' that's been in effect for nearly 18 months! What a joke. If they try to fulfill it I'll be sending it straight back with an angry note that's for sure..

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post #26 of 27 Old 04-10-2014, 07:14 PM
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Exactly. I've never seen such incompetence and massive assumptions made to keep in place a 'backorder' that's been in effect for nearly 18 months! What a joke. If they try to fulfill it I'll be sending it straight back with an angry note that's for sure..

Call them if you can and if they charge your card anyway then refuse the shipment and dispute the charge with your bank. I'm really surprised at RED. This whole 4k player of theirs almost smacks of fraud.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #27 of 27 Old 04-10-2014, 07:25 PM
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Call them if you can and if they charge your card anyway then refuse the shipment and depute the charge with your bank. I'm really surprised at RED. This whole 4k player of theirs almost smacks of fraud.

Yep rest assured I'll make sure I'm not stuck with paying for one. Vapourware come 'Pointless-ware' it would seem. Think they should just stick to making good cameras..

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