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post #181 of 244 Old 03-06-2013, 07:24 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Notsobright View Post

i dont think your understand me correctly. movies bought from the ps store are a 1 time download only. you have to agree to those term. if your hard drive or ps3 goes. you lose the movie. you cant simply call sony and get your movies back. you cant. and some movies do disappear after sometime on there, so your sol. thats what im trying to say. im not talking about games or dlc. im talking movies. i prefer disc, they sit on my shelves and collect dust. but im an old man smile.gif

Different region?

Because here (us) all you need to do is call and switch the hardware its tied to and redownload through your account history. Same process for games, but with games they let you make the hardware reg change yourself online.
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post #182 of 244 Old 03-07-2013, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by fritzi93 View Post

I'm surprised that so many members here are blithely unconcerned about the possibility (nay, probability) that their purchases will disappear, sooner or later.

Anything from Sony is gonna be DRM'ed out the wazoo. Think you're going to be able to make back up copies of your movies for safekeeping? Need you be reminded of a little past history?

- Rootkit fiasco
- Bad sector copy protection
- Cinavia

As to the last mentioned, a few of the major studios have stuck their toes in the water with a couple releases. Otherwise, it's all Sony releases. The point being, Sony is really serious about anti-copy protections, and keep upping the ante. I can't imagine it's going to be easy to defeat the protections they'll use for 4k movie downloads.

Personally, no backup, no sale. Hard drives fail, no exceptions.

Okay, I'll confess. I still have a grudge against Sony for their proprietary memory sticks. I had a rather expensive Sony camera a while back and...oh never mind. tongue.gif



That's the hard part about all this and the new 4K thing. Although I've heard for years discs would be a thing of the past eventually. Downloads and streaming for music/movies aren't all that great or fast or anywhere near flawless right now. It is for the most part blamed on not having enough bandwidth. So unless Internet providers suddenly double the amount available (I'm guessing at doubling) there will be a bottleneck somewhere. Just like when I went with streaming music on my new pre/pro and my son complains his Ps3 is lagging while we're both online. That never happened till I started streaming, even when 3 iphones an ipad and 2 or 3 laptops were online together. This is with good cable Internet and one of the highest rated dual band Gigabit routers on the market. Movies are a total different animal as compared to music and suck up much more bandwidth. Most cable/Internet companies barely had enough bandwidth to handle 3D TV and made adjustments and poured a lot of money into their networks. Will it be enough to handle 4K streaming or will they be willing to spend even more money upgrading. Time will tell but if they do it will take years just like LTE did and still is.
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post #183 of 244 Old 03-07-2013, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by fritzi93 View Post


Okay, I'll confess. I still have a grudge against Sony for their proprietary memory sticks. I had a rather expensive Sony camera a while back and...oh never mind. tongue.gif

Sony has a terrible track record with doing that. Mini Disc anyone? Unless they are prepared to let the other 85% of the studios in on their "standard" without charging them some kind of fee it is going to fail.
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post #184 of 244 Old 03-07-2013, 05:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

That's the hard part about all this and the new 4K thing. Although I've heard for years discs would be a thing of the past eventually. Downloads and streaming for music/movies aren't all that great or fast or anywhere near flawless right now. It is for the most part blamed on not having enough bandwidth. So unless Internet providers suddenly double the amount available (I'm guessing at doubling) there will be a bottleneck somewhere. Just like when I went with streaming music on my new pre/pro and my son complains his Ps3 is lagging while we're both online. That never happened till I started streaming, even when 3 iphones an ipad and 2 or 3 laptops were online together. This is with good cable Internet and one of the highest rated dual band Gigabit routers on the market. Movies are a total different animal as compared to music and suck up much more bandwidth. Most cable/Internet companies barely had enough bandwidth to handle 3D TV and made adjustments and poured a lot of money into their networks. Will it be enough to handle 4K streaming or will they be willing to spend even more money upgrading. Time will tell but if they do it will take years just like LTE did and still is.

Comcast is in the process of doubling the speed of their "Blast" tiers, a process they started back in July 2012. Comcast also upped the data limits for the higher-speed accounts.

I use Extreme 105, which will afford me one new release per week through Sony's 4K service. The way I envision it, a customer will pre-order movies they want to see in 4K, probably for $29.95-39.95 each. The PS4 will proceed with a download starting right after midnight on the day of the movie's release, so that by evening the movie is ready to watch. The 100GB files will live on as archives, on an external hard drive. That's roughly how I think it'll be at fist, and it would be good enough for me.

"Comcast’s Economy, Economy Plus, Internet Essentials plan, Performance Starter plan, and Performance plan all get 300GB per month.
The data allotments grow considerably when you get into the company's higher speed tiers. Comcast's Blast plan gets 350 GB of data monthly. Its Extreme 50 plan has a data 450 GB per month. To get the 600 GB monthly you have to be on the company's Extreme 105 plan."

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post #185 of 244 Old 03-07-2013, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post

Comcast is in the process of doubling the speed of their "Blast" tiers, a process they started back in July 2012. Comcast also upped the data limits for the higher-speed accounts.

I use Extreme 105, which will afford me one new release per week through Sony's 4K service. The way I envision it, a customer will pre-order movies they want to see in 4K, probably for $29.95-39.95 each. The PS4 will proceed with a download starting right after midnight on the day of the movie's release, so that by evening the movie is ready to watch. The 100GB files will live on as archives, on an external hard drive. That's roughly how I think it'll be at fist, and it would be good enough for me.

"Comcast’s Economy, Economy Plus, Internet Essentials plan, Performance Starter plan, and Performance plan all get 300GB per month.
The data allotments grow considerably when you get into the company's higher speed tiers. Comcast's Blast plan gets 350 GB of data monthly. Its Extreme 50 plan has a data 450 GB per month. To get the 600 GB monthly you have to be on the company's Extreme 105 plan."



I just got off the phone with them. I have their fastest speed package available in my area, up to 24 Mbps. They are sending me a new modem so hopefully this helps my problem. I hope 4K is a good thing, it could possibly help a stale economy. It's just that right now people are working for less and buying less. In my business I'm getting prices I got 8-10 years ago to stay competitive, meanwhile material prices alone have more than doubled. I'm eating that, not my employees and not the quality of our work. I'm mentioning this because as it sits 4K is a luxury most can't afford. Also these Internet expansions will be out of our pocket. But I'll wait and see where it goes. Jumping on this early is a mistake IMO.
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post #186 of 244 Old 03-07-2013, 06:42 AM - Thread Starter
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I just got off the phone with them. I have their fastest speed package available in my area, up to 24 Mbps. They are sending me a new modem so hopefully this helps my problem. I hope 4K is a good thing, it could possibly help a stale economy. It's just that right now people are working for less and buying less. In my business I'm getting prices I got 8-10 years ago to stay competitive, meanwhile material prices alone have more than doubled. I'm eating that, not my employees and not the quality of our work. I'm mentioning this because as it sits 4K is a luxury most can't afford. Also these Internet expansions will be out of our pocket. But I'll wait and see where it goes. Jumping on this early is a mistake IMO.

I agree with you 100%. All this discussion of the PS4 that centers strictly on early-adoption of 4K, that's for people who are enthusiasts and can afford early adoption. Early adopters also have to understand the risks, the pessimistic viewpoints are extreme when taken all together, but there are surely going to be hitches and glitches and bad decisions by corporate fat cats. That's par for the course. I'll buy the PS4, but part of the reason is that I also love video games. I'll get a 4K screen, but the first one is going to be a computer monitor; not a huge, beautiful TV. I'm bound to get a 32", for personal viewing and gaming and general computing - at least I can write it off as an expense, since I am a photographer. I know exactly what it's like to be self employed through this whole recession.

For what its worth, 24Mbps is definitely enough to run Vudu full speed and still have enough bandwidth for the internet to run smoothly through the rest of your house. I pay for the top tier from Comcast because I also use it for work, and specifically I upload a lot of full-size photographs to clients. The extra download bandwidth has so far gone unused, but I do appreciate how an entire iTunes HD movie only takes 10-15 minutes to fully download.

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post #187 of 244 Old 03-07-2013, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post

I agree with you 100%. All this discussion of the PS4 that centers strictly on early-adoption of 4K, that's for people who are enthusiasts and can afford early adoption. Early adopters also have to understand the risks, the pessimistic viewpoints are extreme when taken all together, but there are surely going to be hitches and glitches and bad decisions by corporate fat cats. That's par for the course. I'll buy the PS4, but part of the reason is that I also love video games. I'll get a 4K screen, but the first one is going to be a computer monitor; not a huge, beautiful TV. I'm bound to get a 32", for personal viewing and gaming and general computing - at least I can write it off as an expense, since I am a photographer. I know exactly what it's like to be self employed through this whole recession.

For what its worth, 24Mbps is definitely enough to run Vudu full speed and still have enough bandwidth for the internet to run smoothly through the rest of your house. I pay for the top tier from Comcast because I also use it for work, and specifically I upload a lot of full-size photographs to clients. The extra download bandwidth has so far gone unused, but I do appreciate how an entire iTunes HD movie only takes 10-15 minutes to fully download.



It is good Internet service. I think I might have a little configuration problem and I'm going to look into this tonight. Wow it sounds like you might have a better service. What part of the country are you in, and do you use their business class service. I hear Comcast in Seattle WA, does 50 Mbps. Man I would love that. Have a good talk with you later.
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post #188 of 244 Old 03-07-2013, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post

I agree with you 100%. All this discussion of the PS4 that centers strictly on early-adoption of 4K, that's for people who are enthusiasts and can afford early adoption. Early adopters also have to understand the risks, the pessimistic viewpoints are extreme when taken all together, but there are surely going to be hitches and glitches and bad decisions by corporate fat cats. That's par for the course. I'll buy the PS4, but part of the reason is that I also love video games. I'll get a 4K screen, but the first one is going to be a computer monitor; not a huge, beautiful TV. I'm bound to get a 32", for personal viewing and gaming and general computing - at least I can write it off as an expense, since I am a photographer. I know exactly what it's like to be self employed through this whole recession.

For what its worth, 24Mbps is definitely enough to run Vudu full speed and still have enough bandwidth for the internet to run smoothly through the rest of your house. I pay for the top tier from Comcast because I also use it for work, and specifically I upload a lot of full-size photographs to clients. The extra download bandwidth has so far gone unused, but I do appreciate how an entire iTunes HD movie only takes 10-15 minutes to fully download.

All valid points regarding early adopters. I'll take the plunge when there's a substantive amount of source content to watch on my new 4K tv and prices have come down a bit. FWIW, I use Cox and I get "up to" 150mbps down/30up-$90 month. I test it regularly(they have their own site for that), & the fastest I've seen is about 90 down. The upload is usually around 25-30.

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post #189 of 244 Old 03-08-2013, 03:29 AM
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This is from Comcast support. They are sending me a new modem, the girl thinks my current one possibly may not be handling all the new streaming going on, I posted on another thread and someone commented that they didn't think this would make a difference, but we will see. The big news is this is the newest Aris Modem and by her wording, she was pointing towards the future and this one being more capable. I took that as meaning some new bandwidth or packages were in the works. I purposely mentioned 4K and asked about the extra bandwidth possibly being needed. She must have read something because at first I don't think she knew what I was talking about but she had me on hold and came back with the modem maybe having "future capabilities"
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post #190 of 244 Old 03-08-2013, 09:55 AM
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I disagree with most of you. I think Sony is on the right track here!

First, they actually are doing something positive and pro-active for the development and distribution of 4K content. Who else does that?

Second, I am convinced that downloading/streaming content is the future. In fact, personally I own very little physical media. Since years I have been legally streaming (and paying for) music via Spotify. I also stream (and pay for) TV series, I have used both Netflix and similar Swedish services.

For movies where my quality demands are higher, I typically rent new and interesting blu-rays and rip them loss-free to my NAS (ripping is legal in Sweden, for personal use if you have paid for the rent) for later viewing. The NAS has RAID and multiple drives so I risk no loss of information. I keep a 'library' of 50-100 ripped blu-rays until I have watched them and will delete to free up space for other films. OK, this method does require some planning ahead, but this is for me part of the fun -- to keep an eye open for interesting titles which I will put in my library for viewing during the upcoming months. And if my wife really needs to instantly watch something particular on a Friday night, we can always stream via Netflix or iTunes, with slightly lower quality. smile.gif

So, personally I see no problem waiting a few days for a huge 4K title to be downloaded. But then in Sweden, ISPs typically don't limit bandwidth and/or usage. But I would assume that also in the US, enthusiasts do have the possibility of paying a little premium to get unlimited monthly broadband traffic?

Huge flaw in your logic. You assume that there WILL be physical media version of 4K movies from which to rip loss-less digital versions. With people like you cheer leading digital downloads, companies will have no incentive to create a costly physical version. Say goodbye to premium quality audio and video. Thanks.
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post #191 of 244 Old 03-08-2013, 09:04 PM
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^^ What are going to do condemn Mr Stockholm's preferred way to watch TV/movies? Get real. IMO there will always be physical media to satisfy the audiophile in all of us. But there's no denying the convenience of the download/streaming era. And I must admit the quality is getting much better. I have most of my CD's ripped and placed on a hard drive and running through my Oppo and there is no way you could tell the difference from the physical CD. As long as "they" give me some kind of an option, It's ok with me. Will LP's die anytime soon? Not hardly.
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post #192 of 244 Old 03-09-2013, 05:42 AM
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All valid points regarding early adopters. I'll take the plunge when there's a substantive amount of source content to watch on my new 4K tv and prices have come down a bit. FWIW, I use Cox and I get "up to" 150mbps down/30up-$90 month. I test it regularly(they have their own site for that), & the fastest I've seen is about 90 down. The upload is usually around 25-30.



Wow,those are some fast speeds. What is cox Internet and what part of the country do you live in?
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post #193 of 244 Old 03-09-2013, 05:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow,those are some fast speeds.what is cox Internet and what part of the country do you live in?

For what it's worth, Comcast has equally fast internet service in Philly (where I am) and a number of other cities. I just ran a test:


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post #194 of 244 Old 03-09-2013, 06:07 AM
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For what it's worth, Comcast has equally fast internet service in Philly (where I am) and a number of other cities. I just ran a test:




I didn't realize we are practically neighbors Mr magic. I'm wondering why my Comcast speeds are so much lower? Mine are in the 17-18 Mbps range. Are you business class or a special service?
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post #195 of 244 Old 03-09-2013, 06:14 AM - Thread Starter
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I didn't realize we are practically neighbors Mr magic. I'm wondering why my Comcast speeds are so much lower? Mine are in the 17-18 Mbps range. Are you business class or a special service?

It's their Blast 105 tier, it is still considered residential service but it costs a hundred bucks a month. Do you have a docsis 3.0 modem? If your modem is older (docsis 2) that can be a bottleneck. I don't do any bundles, that's all I get from them. It used to be Blast 50 but they doubled the speeds on the Blast tiers, last July or so.

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post #196 of 244 Old 03-09-2013, 06:31 AM
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It's their Blast 105 tier, it is still considered residential service but it costs a hundred bucks a month. Do you have a docsis 3.0 modem? If your modem is older (docsis 2) that can be a bottleneck. I don't do any bundles, that's all I get from them. It used to be Blast 50 but they doubled the speeds on the Blast tiers, last July or so.



I gotcha. I'm using an Aris modem, they just sent me the latest Aris yesterday and I have to install it today. Hopefully it helps.
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Wow,those are some fast speeds. What is cox Internet and what part of the country do you live in?

Cox Communications, major ISP in the southwest(tv/phone service also).

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For what it's worth, Comcast has equally fast internet service in Philly (where I am) and a number of other cities. I just ran a test:


Actually, if you go to Speedtest.net, you may find a server even closer to you. You may see better/more accurate results.

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post #199 of 244 Old 03-09-2013, 09:36 AM
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Cox Communications, major ISP in the southwest(tv/phone service also).



They sound like a keeper.
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wow...sweet! can't wait to get hold of one.. smile.gif
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post #201 of 244 Old 03-10-2013, 04:08 AM
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I'm wondering if Comcast would cut me a break on their faster Internet. I'm already a triple play customer.
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post #202 of 244 Old 03-10-2013, 10:25 AM
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A 4k movie would take absolutely forever to download ...

I like shiny stuff.
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post #203 of 244 Old 03-10-2013, 10:37 AM - Thread Starter
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A 4k movie would take absolutely forever to download ...

I don't know why I didn't do this earlier, I just used a download time calculator and with my current service I could download 100 gigs in just over two hours. Like the old days of streaming iTunes movies, watching a 4K movie would probably require 15-30 minutes of buffer before it could play. Here in Philly Comcast also offers 300Mbps service which would be good enough for a 40 minute download, or direct streaming. The speed is already there, for a price. All I need is a 4K TV or projector, a PS4, and of course for the download service to actually exist.

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post #204 of 244 Old 03-10-2013, 02:16 PM
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I suspect they are working hard on the download service around the clock. I'm wondering what the 300 Mbps service would cost per month, any idea?
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post #205 of 244 Old 03-10-2013, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
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I suspect they are working hard on the download service around the clock. I'm wondering what the 300 Mbps service would cost per month, any idea?

Comcast's current pricing amounts to one dollar per Mbps, so $300 for 300Mbps. However there's reason to believe that in some markets Comcast will offer a much better price this year for 300Mbps service: $119/month http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Heres-Comcasts-Coming-Speed-Pricing-Lineup-120780

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post #206 of 244 Old 03-10-2013, 02:45 PM
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Comcast's current pricing amounts to one dollar per Mbps, so $300 for 300Mbps. However there's reason to believe that in some markets Comcast will offer a much better price this year for 300Mbps service: $119/month http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Heres-Comcasts-Coming-Speed-Pricing-Lineup-120780



Wow the $119 would be a deal. I would seriously think about this, but I doubt in my area they offer speeds that high yet. Although after Philly gets upgrades we are usually next. Once I heard AT&T had LTE up and running down your way I knew it would only be a couple months before it was here.
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post #207 of 244 Old 03-10-2013, 04:55 PM
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I don't know why I didn't do this earlier, I just used a download time calculator and with my current service I could download 100 gigs in just over two hours. Like the old days of streaming iTunes movies, watching a 4K movie would probably require 15-30 minutes of buffer before it could play. Here in Philly Comcast also offers 300Mbps service which would be good enough for a 40 minute download, or direct streaming. The speed is already there, for a price. All I need is a 4K TV or projector, a PS4, and of course for the download service to actually exist.
That's assuming their side doesn't slow it down. I can tell you for a fact that when I download something from the Xbox Live market place it's NOWHERE near half the speeds I'm getting.

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post #208 of 244 Old 03-11-2013, 04:21 AM
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When an Internet provider claims a certain speed, is it combined up and down? My Comcast service claims up to 24Mbps, my speed test averages are close to 18 down and 4 up.
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post #209 of 244 Old 03-11-2013, 06:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

When an Internet provider claims a certain speed, is it combined up and down? My Comcast service claims up to 24Mbps, my speed test averages are close to 18 down and 4 up.

Usually the speed advertised is the maximum potential download speed. I find it hard to utilize the last 10-15% of my bandwidth, but if I find the right server on a speed test I can get to the limit.

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post #210 of 244 Old 03-11-2013, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post

Usually the speed advertised is the maximum potential download speed. I find it hard to utilize the last 10-15% of my bandwidth, but if I find the right server on a speed test I can get to the limit.




Ok gotcha, that was what I was wondering as I also did Cnets speed and mine was at 24 after a few passes. I'm also activating my new Aris modem right now which hopefully will help. I am going to inquire about a faster service today, just to see what they have, and possibly bargain with Comcast. I find that they are good about that. For all the complaints I hear about them my experiences have been totally opposite of some I've heard.

After the new modem and from the speedtest.net app I'm nearly 25 up and 6 down. At least I'm getting what I'm paying for. I know some are not getting advertised speeds.
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