Netflix Plans to Stream 4K Within Two Years - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 142 Old 03-16-2013, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
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In a recent interview, Netflix chief product officer Neil Hunt stated the company will begin to stream 4K content "within a year or two." Mr. Hunt discusses how Blu-ray is not ready for the transition to 4K UltraHD, as well as Netflix' desire to see a higher frame rate such as 60p adopted as a standard. Netflix accounts for 30% of the downstream traffic on the Internet, and it has been busy helping pay for the cost of delivering that much bandwidth through its Open Connect initiative, which puts Netflix servers as close to the customer as possible. House of Cards was mostly shot in 4K, and it looks like it will enjoy a re-release—Mr. Hunt indicated Netflix could have 4K encodes later this year.



Is it possible that Netflix has the 4K/UltraHD game wrapped up, because it had the foresight to install the infrastructure to deliver it first? It's quite an interview, it seems like the future of media delivery is right around the corner, and Netflix is primed to bring it to the masses. What do you think?
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"Streaming will be the best way to get the 4K picture into people's homes. That's because of the challenges involved in upgrading broadcast technologies and the fact that it isn't anticipated within the Blu-ray disc standard."

"To that point, our own original House of Cards was shot in 4K. It's being mastered in full HD, but the raw footage, or a good chunk of it, was shot in 4K, and we hope to have some House of Cards 4K encodes later this year."

"I would love to see the industry get to 60p as a routine standard for shooting material in the first place, instead of the exception. The ultra-HD standard allows for 48p, 60p and 120p framerate delivery, but there's a bunch of pieces missing along the way: the encoders don't necessarily support the high frame rates. The current HDMI connector standard doesn't support the full 120p frame delivery rate. We have a lot of work as an industry to make the frame rate catch up to the same kinds of high quality as the pixel resolution." source

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post #2 of 142 Old 03-17-2013, 05:28 AM
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They can't even do HD right. Their streaming quality is terrible.
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post #3 of 142 Old 03-17-2013, 05:49 AM
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I just watched a couple Netflix movies last night. Regular movie, not HD. and I thought the audio/video was acceptable. Granted I still want my action movies with a lot of special effects on blu-ray. They don't seem to have the titles like some of the other ones, but maybe this is their plan to stream 4K and get onboard now. But they have to step up and get more top movies as the other ones have passed them by. Like it or not 4K is going forward, and the more online movie services that get on board the better the prices should be.
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post #4 of 142 Old 03-17-2013, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by wingnut4772 View Post

They can't even do HD right. Their streaming quality is terrible.

Their Super HD service is pretty impressive.
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post #5 of 142 Old 03-17-2013, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by eskimo2176 View Post

Their Super HD service is pretty impressive.



I didn't see that offered when I was looking last night. Mark did I read your post on another thread correctly when you said we can't do Netflix HD on comcast?
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post #6 of 142 Old 03-17-2013, 08:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

I didn't see that offered when I was looking last night. Mark did I read your post on another thread correctly when you said we can't do Netflix HD on comcast?

That is correct. For the new Netflix Super HD and 3D to work, a cable company needs to allow them to install servers near the end user, which Netflix calls "Open Connect". So far no deal has been reached with Comcast.

I watched an episode of "House of Cards" last night on the PS3. The video was sharp, but there was visible banding.

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post #7 of 142 Old 03-17-2013, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post

That is correct. For the new Netflix Super HD and 3D to work, a cable company needs to allow them to install servers near the end user, which Netflix calls "Open Connect". So far no deal has been reached with Comcast.

I watched an episode of "House of Cards" last night on the PS3. The video was sharp, but there was visible banding.



Ok Mark, I thought you said that. That's a lot of customers missing out on their version of HD. It seems to me if they are to survive, they need to close that deal. By the time they start streaming 4K even more of their customers will abandon ship without it IMO. I'm not trained to determine what is wrong with the picture quality, it wasn't bad but I've seen better.
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post #8 of 142 Old 03-17-2013, 08:45 AM
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I like House of Cards, and looking forward to 4K, this is good! At least someone other than Sony is doing something about 4K on the content side, thus putting down the chicken/egg argument against 4K.

I haven't even seen 4K, but I have a projector and am drooling at the prospect of upgrading in a couple years.
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post #9 of 142 Old 03-17-2013, 09:06 AM
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We need to start contacting Comcast with our interest in Netflix 3D and Open Connect. Many people need to do this and they will take notice.
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post #10 of 142 Old 03-17-2013, 09:38 AM
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What a load of crap. Making it like it is a big deal to stream 4K@30fps when it will actually take less bandwidth than 1080p if they use the new h.265 codec.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXY8Szhz42M

And it would be no problem for Sony to put most 4K movies on a standard 50GB dual layer blu-ray, with BDXL offering up to 128GB if needed. Sony was hoping they could abandoned physical media as it is becoming obsolete, but we are still one generation out until US internet speeds make that a reality.
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post #11 of 142 Old 03-17-2013, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

We need to start contacting Comcast with our interest in Netflix 3D and Open Connect. Many people need to do this and they will take notice.



That's a good idea and I'm going to do that today. Don't under estimate the power of the masses.
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post #12 of 142 Old 03-17-2013, 09:58 AM
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I mean is this simply upscaled content?
then who cares.

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post #13 of 142 Old 03-17-2013, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MSchu18 View Post

I mean is this simply upscaled content?
then who cares.

The gist of the interview with the netflix CPO is that we're talking about real 4K content. My impression is House of Cards will be their first 4K mastered and encoded offering. Beyond that, recent movies all exist as 4K masters for distribution to movie theaters so the source material already exists. The biggest question is what happens to back-catalog releases. Not every movie will be given the "Top Gun" treatement with a digital IMAX re-release.

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post #14 of 142 Old 03-17-2013, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by wingnut4772 View Post

They can't even do HD right. Their streaming quality is terrible.
I'm amazed at how the quality varies from device to device. My Samsung TV has the Netflix app, connected to it is a Blu Ray player with Netflix and an Apple TV both via HDMI. I will say the HD Netflix content through the Apple TV is pretty darn good. The Blu Ray player is acceptable but not as good. The native Samsung TV app looks the worst, often no better than SD. All three devices are right next to each other on the same wireless network.
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post #15 of 142 Old 03-17-2013, 10:24 AM
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This is a very big deal indeed and anyone who thinks otherwise is missing the boat IMHO. Netflix is the only company, with the possible exception* of Sony, who can singularly hasten the transition to 4K forward by a meaningful amount. If they can also push to 4K at 60fps then all the better though that also requires an hdmi update.

Their client is pretty much ubiquitous at this point in blu ray players, game consoles, and TV sets themselves. And as another round of rights negotiations occur in the next few years as the standing deals expire, don't be surprised to see NFLX out bidding HBO, Sho, epix, stars, et al for the first post-theatrical windows.

As for the content itself, 4K scans of 35mm masters either already exist in many cases or can be created for not a ton of money. And obviously anything shot digitally from here on out will be shot in 4K or better.

(* I say possibly re Sony bc their clout isn't what it used to be, to put it mildly. Still, their combination of media creation and the hardware to view it makes them formidable - and obviously their $25k 4K LCD includes a 4K media server, so they're certainly trying).

Color me excited.

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post #16 of 142 Old 03-17-2013, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by eskimo2176 View Post

Their Super HD service is pretty impressive.

No it's not. In every instance whrn I watched SuperHD, colour banding in dark areas and macroblocking in faster moving objects are more than apparent ven on my 55" screen viewed from 12ft away.
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I'm amazed at how the quality varies from device to device. My Samsung TV has the Netflix app, connected to it is a Blu Ray player with Netflix and an Apple TV both via HDMI. I will say the HD Netflix content through the Apple TV is pretty darn good. The Blu Ray player is acceptable but not as good. The native Samsung TV app looks the worst, often no better than SD. All three devices are right next to each other on the same wireless network.

Not only that, SuperHD is also available only through certain equipment. My BDP-53 can't do SuperHD but the PS3 can. Regardless, the picture quality is still craptacular, tough. biggrin.gif

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post #18 of 142 Old 03-17-2013, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Not only that, SuperHD is also available only through certain equipment. My BDP-53 can't do SuperHD but the PS3 can. Regardless, the picture quality is still craptacular, tough. biggrin.gif
I wasn't even aware Netflix had a Super HD service.
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Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post

I like House of Cards, and looking forward to 4K, this is good! At least someone other than Sony is doing something about 4K on the content side, thus putting down the chicken/egg argument against 4K.

I haven't even seen 4K, but I have a projector and am drooling at the prospect of upgrading in a couple years.


The server as mentioned is needed due to bandwidth restrictions.........................also why Sony includes a server with their
25k 84" 4k tv cause they know the limitations of 4k content delivery they are up against.

Satellite and cable tv will never be able to get 4k to the masses. Too many obstacles and then expenses to do so.

Internet 4k....WTF...really ? They can't even consistently deliver decent HD.............How much of the country has consistent 15-20mb speed

to handle this even if they could send it ?


This is a pipe dream....................
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post #20 of 142 Old 03-17-2013, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonymoody View Post

This is a very big deal indeed and anyone who thinks otherwise is missing the boat IMHO. Netflix is the only company, with the possible exception* of Sony, who can singularly hasten the transition to 4K forward by a meaningful amount. If they can also push to 4K at 60fps then all the better though that also requires an hdmi update.

Their client is pretty much ubiquitous at this point in blu ray players, game consoles, and TV sets themselves. And as another round of rights negotiations occur in the next few years as the standing deals expire, don't be surprised to see NFLX out bidding HBO, Sho, epix, stars, et al for the first post-theatrical windows.

As for the content itself, 4K scans of 35mm masters either already exist in many cases or can be created for not a ton of money. And obviously anything shot digitally from here on out will be shot in 4K or better.

(* I say possibly re Sony bc their clout isn't what it used to be, to put it mildly. Still, their combination of media creation and the hardware to view it makes them formidable - and obviously their $25k 4K LCD includes a 4K media server, so they're certainly trying).

Color me excited.


Go see that 4k 25,000 tv and you will lose your excitement real fast......................unless you like to sit six inches from the screen
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post #21 of 142 Old 03-17-2013, 12:36 PM
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This is BS. Not even Sony, the inventor of the format, can stream it and instead delivers all the content on hard drives. And now Netflix doesn't say something sensible like downloading the movie first, but says "oh yeah, we'll stream it". Poppycock. The required rate to do that is something like over 100 Mbps. And no one has broadband that fast. Mine tops out at 20 Mbps. Calculated that based on a 100 minute movie weighing in at about 100GB according to 4K reports of its footprint.
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That's bryond exagerration. Even from 10ft away the difference between that TV and regular HDTV is very clear. rolleyes.gif

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post #23 of 142 Old 03-17-2013, 12:44 PM
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I have to see one of the 4K TV's everyone is talking about. I've heard the arguments for and against. Some say there's adifference and others say your eyes can't see any difference. After reading an article and understanding more how the human eye works I'm not convinced I'll see any difference. For 20 or 25 grand it won't be in my house. But I definately want to see one.
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post #24 of 142 Old 03-17-2013, 12:51 PM
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So what is my impression. Bandwidth and quotas on how much you can upload and download make this a no go for most people. I will say if this is going to work all restrictions have to be removed from netflix and to my outlet I plug into. Fast delivery, with no bandwidth or speed capping. The only way that will get done is cash and lots of it. My provider isn't going to fund this requirement. Those that benefit the most from this will have to fund it. Netflix themselves, and others that deliver these services, will have to build up the system. Those that benefit from delivering content for cash will need to come up with cash to make it all possible.
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post #25 of 142 Old 03-17-2013, 03:24 PM
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I ordered netflix and was very put off. What will they do? offer bits and pieces of old SNL shows in HD? When the show was broadcast they didn't leave parts out! I get 40 min. of one-50 of another, and less.
I can't have netfilx on my effin $500.00 oppo. But yet they want to me to accept this as word? The video is choppy, no DTS MA audio. I say they have a ways to go before offering this. Then, who is running out to buy a tv thats over 10k?
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post #26 of 142 Old 03-17-2013, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius View Post

This is BS. Not even Sony, the inventor of the format, can stream it and instead delivers all the content on hard drives. And now Netflix doesn't say something sensible like downloading the movie first, but says "oh yeah, we'll stream it". Poppycock. The required rate to do that is something like over 100 Mbps. And no one has broadband that fast. Mine tops out at 20 Mbps. Calculated that based on a 100 minute movie weighing in at about 100GB according to 4K reports of its footprint.

I have 50 Mbps from Comcast and Comcast has speeds of up to 105 on their top tier.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/14/comcast-extreme-105-serves-up-105mbps-internet-speeds-for-home-u/

And they are going to have 200 Mbps soon they say. Now whether Netflix will be able to stream it, is a whole other issue I agree.
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post #27 of 142 Old 03-17-2013, 03:40 PM
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As long as these downloading limits go away, and internet speeds increase, I will be totally OK with not having the physical media as long as the quality is there. My biggest pet peeve with streaming is the loss of quality.

Turn it up!
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post #28 of 142 Old 03-17-2013, 04:26 PM
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Until bandwidth caps are dealt with this is all pointless conversation, especially for people like me with 100 GB caps. I either have to rent or buy Blu-ray and see little in the way of anything but full bit rate physical media 4k as any viable replacement.

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post #29 of 142 Old 03-17-2013, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonymoody View Post

This is a very big deal indeed and anyone who thinks otherwise is missing the boat IMHO. Netflix is the only company, with the possible exception* of Sony, who can singularly hasten the transition to 4K forward by a meaningful amount.
Pretty much this. A company whose presence is felt in the vast majority of new consumer electronics or smartphone app stores supporting 4K resolution is a huge deal for the format. It will help push it a lot sooner than if we were waiting for a new physical format of 4K. Of course bandwidth caps and download speeds may have something to say about this plan...

I feel for the employees of Netflix though. Having worked at their call center I can already imagine the calls...

"My 4K isn't working"
Re: "Sir do you mean your T.V?"
"No. My 4k."
"So your 4K...Picture...?
"Yeah. It keeps rebuffering and looks like one of them cheap films."
"If you're getting frequent buffering issues your connection speeds are too low and you need to contact your ISP."
"Why? I can load google and facebook games just fine. You guys need to fix it or credit me a month."

Or the other scenario:

"I don't see no difference."
"Are you using a 4K t.v or projector?"
"Why would I do that? I just bought a new top of the line Magnavox at Wal-Marts black friday sale. Its blu ray."
"You need a t.v that supports 4K. It sounds like you have a 1080p tv."
"You never told me I need a new t.v. You guys should tell me this sort of thing before I waste my money. My T.V is perfectly fine. I'll just go to Red Box."
"Sounds good, enjoy renting DVDs and not getting 4K at all."

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post #30 of 142 Old 03-17-2013, 07:07 PM
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4K Netflix streaming ? Really ? How many here have a 4K UDTV ? ABC, FOX, ESPN etc are in 720p and I don't see consumers complaining.
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