Panasonic May End Plasma Production in 2014 - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 225 Old 03-19-2013, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theaterscapes View Post

There are multiple statements being said about how good plasma werr.... "isolating picture at a comparable price". There were benefits to LCD even in its infancy. Flawed in many. Since then they have addressed many complaints and are even going back and imitating good points to plasma. Direct view/localized dimming. I hear, "Price go down -- price go down" Wonder why Kuro disappeared? I remember looking at Panasonic years back watching a football game. Teams lined up and all I saw was pixels firing off around still players. Watching credits scroll up the screen. Stop, go, stop, go as the wonderfully motioned credits jumped. As years past and even this year. 55VT50.... home screen of a Sony bluray player. The blue stream across the TV and pans out on the right side. I am looking at it and I see blue pixels firing at random to a still image. "Guess they didn't figure that one out yet"
You never see any detail in shadowed areas. "Always trying for the black levels" shadow = black even though there is content in there to be seen in the plasma world.
Even though plasma has been dead for years because the plasma buyers don't want to pay for any adequate advancements (this goes for consumers in general). The power consumption was finally the kick out the door.
You can't pitch black the screen anymore and blast the display at full blast. Cook a egg on the TV top. They have been going back to the original gray and green screens.
Panasonic invested in making a plant to make "cupcakes (plasma)" and didn't want to rearrange to "krumpets(LCD)" while the whole time saying "no reason to go to krumpets when cupcakes are the best?" "Cheaper?" "Remember Elite? Which we were never? They had some water in their towel and literally squeezed every little drop out of it that they could. I give my hat off that it lasted this long and that alone. Finally, can we move from... what's the difference between plasma and LCD/LED?

I tried to read this, but it proved too painful. I actually have no idea what you're saying.

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post #92 of 225 Old 03-19-2013, 08:51 PM
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Try to watch Avengers and The Dark Knight Rises on the latest and greatest 80"+ Sony and LG 4K LCD, just cannot believe how it destroy the whole "movie" experience. Yes everything is very sharp but its just watching a video game which makes the CG obviously fake. Try watch this on a projector or Plasma and you'll still feels like watching a movie in a theater and that's a huge difference. But some people like my wife cannot tell the difference, so LCD for them is good enough.
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post #93 of 225 Old 03-19-2013, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by [Irishman] View Post

I think average TV retention before replacing has shrunk in the US from 10 to 7 years.
I still have my 1st tv from 2004. I keep em till they die!
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post #94 of 225 Old 03-19-2013, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by tinghai View Post

Try to watch Avengers and The Dark Knight Rises on the latest and greatest 80"+ Sony and LG 4K LCD, just cannot believe how it destroy the whole "movie" experience. Yes everything is very sharp but its just watching a video game which makes the CG obviously fake. Try watch this on a projector or Plasma and you'll still feels like watching a movie in a theater and that's a huge difference. But some people like my wife cannot tell the difference, so LCD for them is good enough.
This doesn't make any sense.
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post #95 of 225 Old 03-19-2013, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theaterscapes View Post

There are multiple statements being said about how good plasma werr.... "isolating picture at a comparable price". There were benefits to LCD even in its infancy. Flawed in many. Since then they have addressed many complaints and are even going back and imitating good points to plasma. Direct view/localized dimming. I hear, "Price go down -- price go down" Wonder why Kuro disappeared? I remember looking at Panasonic years back watching a football game. Teams lined up and all I saw was pixels firing off around still players. Watching credits scroll up the screen. Stop, go, stop, go as the wonderfully motioned credits jumped. As years past and even this year. 55VT50.... home screen of a Sony bluray player. The blue stream across the TV and pans out on the right side. I am looking at it and I see blue pixels firing at random to a still image. "Guess they didn't figure that one out yet"
You never see any detail in shadowed areas. "Always trying for the black levels" shadow = black even though there is content in there to be seen in the plasma world.
Even though plasma has been dead for years because the plasma buyers don't want to pay for any adequate advancements (this goes for consumers in general). The power consumption was finally the kick out the door.
You can't pitch black the screen anymore and blast the display at full blast. Cook a egg on the TV top. They have been going back to the original gray and green screens.
Panasonic invested in making a plant to make "cupcakes (plasma)" and didn't want to rearrange to "krumpets(LCD)" while the whole time saying "no reason to go to krumpets when cupcakes are the best?" "Cheaper?" "Remember Elite? Which we were never? They had some water in their towel and literally squeezed every little drop out of it that they could. I give my hat off that it lasted this long and that alone. Finally, can we move from... what's the difference between plasma and LCD/LED?

Nobody knows what the hell you're saying here. There isn't a shred of logic or passable writing skills. If you're going to contribute to a thread, feel free to speak your mind and give opinions, that's what AVS is all about, but as hard as it may be, try and use some logic and factual evidence.
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post #96 of 225 Old 03-19-2013, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post

Most people don't. Most people still view plasmas as old and power-hungry. I'm very tech literate, so I know there are plasmas out there that have dealt with the power issues, but to me, plasma is mostly super cheap 720p sets at Wal-Mart with a few high-end sets like the Kuros thrown in that have no use to me. They offer nothing over my super-thin Sharp LED-LCD. As of a year or two ago, I set my display policy to be all LED, and I am all LED, across my HT and PCs.
It pretty much died when LED came along, and did the black levels that plasma was famous for over CCFL LCD's, and that was that. In terms of performance, that's fine that someone in a lab can measure a little tiny difference, but for actual people watching actual TV/movies, LED is where it's at.
ROFL!!!
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post #97 of 225 Old 03-19-2013, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post

Thinner, brighter, and they serve the same function.

Well, you certainly make a compelling argument. I can tell you've put a lot of thought into this and have developed some impenetrable support for your claims.
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post #98 of 225 Old 03-19-2013, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post

Most people don't. Most people still view plasmas as old and power-hungry. I'm very tech literate, so I know there are plasmas out there that have dealt with the power issues, but to me, plasma is mostly super cheap 720p sets at Wal-Mart with a few high-end sets like the Kuros thrown in that have no use to me. They offer nothing over my super-thin Sharp LED-LCD. As of a year or two ago, I set my display policy to be all LED, and I am all LED, across my HT and PCs.
It pretty much died when LED came along, and did the black levels that plasma was famous for over CCFL LCD's, and that was that. In terms of performance, that's fine that someone in a lab can measure a little tiny difference, but for actual people watching actual TV/movies, LED is where it's at.
Idiocy or ignorance? Wrong, both! Funny thing is standing in my local Fry's the high end plasmas look far superior to all the LEDs around them. My PN64E7000 kills your TV. Also, LED is LCD and that technology was devised in the 70's for static images and not motion. That is why the slow pixel response rate of LCD is not suited for fast moving objects on screen.
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post #99 of 225 Old 03-19-2013, 10:27 PM
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Enough. This isn't a "which tech is better" debate. Picture quality is purely subjective. What looks good to one doesn't always look good to the next. Personally I believe the PNE7000 series is crap. Which is my point. Looks good to one. Doesn't mean it's the same for others. Move On.
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post #100 of 225 Old 03-19-2013, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

I
I still have my 1st tv from 2004. I keep em till they die!
Not me. I gave the first TV (RCA 19" CRT) I purchased in 2003 to a family friend when I purchased my first round of HDTVs in 2009.
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post #101 of 225 Old 03-20-2013, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post

Most people don't. Most people still view plasmas as old and power-hungry. I'm very tech literate, so I know there are plasmas out there that have dealt with the power issues, but to me, plasma is mostly super cheap 720p sets at Wal-Mart with a few high-end sets like the Kuros thrown in that have no use to me. They offer nothing over my super-thin Sharp LED-LCD. As of a year or two ago, I set my display policy to be all LED, and I am all LED, across my HT and PCs.
It pretty much died when LED came along, and did the black levels that plasma was famous for over CCFL LCD's, and that was that. In terms of performance, that's fine that someone in a lab can measure a little tiny difference, but for actual people watching actual TV/movies, LED is where it's at.

No, you are not.
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post #102 of 225 Old 03-20-2013, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

This doesn't make any sense.

It's the MotionFlow/Trumotion whatever the manufacturer calls it - the higher refresh rate that suppose to reduce LCD's motion blur problem that created this LCD "soap opera effects". Turn it off you got motion blur, turn it on it just like watching video.
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post #103 of 225 Old 03-20-2013, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post

Most people don't. Most people still view plasmas as old and power-hungry. I'm very tech literate, so I know there are plasmas out there that have dealt with the power issues, but to me, plasma is mostly super cheap 720p sets at Wal-Mart with a few high-end sets like the Kuros thrown in that have no use to me. They offer nothing over my super-thin Sharp LED-LCD. As of a year or two ago, I set my display policy to be all LED, and I am all LED, across my HT and PCs.
It pretty much died when LED came along, and did the black levels that plasma was famous for over CCFL LCD's, and that was that. In terms of performance, that's fine that someone in a lab can measure a little tiny difference, but for actual people watching actual TV/movies, LED is where it's at.

It's clear from your posts on this thread and other threads that you are NOT tech literate at the slightest.

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post #104 of 225 Old 03-20-2013, 07:22 AM
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LOL. I had a couple drinks last night. I did hop around a bit. In short, its been a long time since plasma impressed me or simply felt the need to purchase a plasma. I'm glad the industry is allowed to move on and be socially accepted that way.
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post #105 of 225 Old 03-20-2013, 07:52 AM
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i love my 55" panasonic gt50 tv

out preforms any led tv's in blacks and refresh rates

zero motion blurs or bleed through

the new plasma tvs are as thin as any led

all around a better tv

wish the public saw it that way instead of seaing a cheap vizio tv with fake advertising
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post #106 of 225 Old 03-20-2013, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post

Thinner, brighter, and they serve the same function. I also can't find plasmas bigger than 65", so they would only work for the smallest of rooms. Everyone else is going to 70"+ sets.

You really need to stop now while you're behind! I'm sure the Sharp's are FLYING off shelves everywhere. LOL 65" only work in smaller rooms. LOL x2.
Poor me, I guess I 'try' to enjoy my two totally inferior Panny 65" plasmas. frown.gif
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post #107 of 225 Old 03-20-2013, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinghai 
It's the MotionFlow/Trumotion whatever the manufacturer calls it - the higher refresh rate that suppose to reduce LCD's motion blur problem that created this LCD "soap opera effects". Turn it off you got motion blur, turn it on it just like watching video.
I own a 2008 LCd, don't use the Motion Smoothing options, rarely i see blur. The blur problem is not much of a problem on post 2008 LCd's. It might be a problem when you watch low quality sources - such as SD cable - all the time.

Plasma also has Motion Smoothing options. I hate the Plasma ''soap opera effect'' tongue.gif
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post #108 of 225 Old 03-20-2013, 08:14 AM
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Fan boys unite!
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post #109 of 225 Old 03-20-2013, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by solarg37 View Post

i love my 55" panasonic gt50 tv

out preforms any led tv's in blacks and refresh rates

zero motion blurs or bleed through

the new plasma tvs are as thin as any led

all around a better tv

wish the public saw it that way instead of seaing a cheap vizio tv with fake advertising

Why don't you Marry it then...
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post #110 of 225 Old 03-20-2013, 10:00 AM
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Plasma's have been out for well over a decade and still have image retention issues (My recent Panasonic Plasma certainly does).

I hope OLED is far better in that aspect.
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post #111 of 225 Old 03-20-2013, 10:04 AM
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Going back to the years of the tube set (Early 2000s) Sony dictated the industry. Simply changing the outer bezels from silver to black and black to silver. I watched the other manufactures change shortly after. Plasma was rising with early adopters. Top of the line Pioneer Elite, Fujitsu, and Runco. Panasonic began with the budget plasma (mass market) with HD and the optional ED models. As the plasma market grew.... the key points to buying was the black (pioneer) to gray or green panels of Samsung, Panasonic, LG plasma. Pioneer panels also mashed the top glass against it panel. Represented by putting your thumb on the screen. There was a gap in-between. Cause a reflection if viewed off angle. You would see the image on the panel and the reflection on the back side of the glass. Pioneer did it right without acceptions and asked a higher price for it. The mass market was buying Panasonic based off price and the early adopters "money spenders" were moving to Sony XBR4 and 5s with now the better off angle viewing, adoption of 120hz, and flat mat panels to reduce glare (to date a time period). Pioneers market starting failing. Pioneer left. Panasonic wanted to capture that market. If you think plasma... Panasonic is the first to think. Samsung had there hands in everything an still does. They are never wrong because they do everything. Samsung began the first "main stream" LED adoption and with there hands in plasma were the first to start to gloss the surface of the LCD and LED TVs. The appearance made the blacks look deeper opposed the gray flat mat LCD which was always the look of plasma with the glass pane in front. They also went on the binge of making super thin LED models and networking apps like Pandora, Netflix, Blockbuster, YouTube. This was the first turning point that I saw Sony to start imitating another manufacture. Samsung has been known to have a bit more color saturation and hit the far points of contrast (Very dynamic look) people gravitated to that. The first thing a consumer notices is how bright a TV looks compared to another. Manufactures generally imitate Samsung now. For technology, The motion from florescent (LCD) lighting to LED (LCD w/ LED lighting). The wavelength for florescent I better, warmer, accurate then LED. Whites should have a very slight yellow opposed to LEDs being cold and having a blueish tint. To the consumer... the blueish tint appears brighter. The advantage to moving toward LED is that consumption of power is less than LCD and puts and even farther gap on plasma. They also have the ability to cost effectively create zones on the panel to dim or brighten depending on the content needed to be shown. An imitation of plasmas ability to do pixel to pixel. And for disposal reasons.... LED does not contain mercury like the LCD counterparts. As energy standards have gotten more aggressive.... plasma ideal as in creating and "black tinted glass" and amping up the panel to penetrated thru can't be done anymore. Panasonic 50 inch plasma (2008) used around 600w. Current models use around 320w or so. The the glass panels have went in reverse to compensate. Going back to "the market" manufacturers need to make money. There is and has been money in the LED market. That's why many manufactures left in development of LCD panels. Panasonic's direction which dates back before Pioneer left was plasma panels. So..... they continue to tell the market you shouldn't move forward. The problem is that it is becoming increasing hard to stand behind. As of the constant rumors of them leaving is probably other manufactures pushing the industry. This next should be the end.... and today Panasonic wants to run with this "rumor" idea because they don't want to public to be scared to buy. I have watched technology die and with the service. Mitsubishi for example made LCDs (panels bought from other manufacturers) . At least 60% percent of the panels would crap out. They were gracious to replace them and had good customer relations as far as compensation. As they left the LCD market and they had to replace with another manufacturer because they couldn't supply a TV of their own. The resistance became the answer. This goes suit with there DLPs. Even Sony especially this year has been much more resistant since previous years. The competition is steep as all main manufacture are near bankruptcy. So I am glad that plasma is leaving. I'm sure once Panasonic throws the towel the others will follow. I am all for manufacture allowing themselves to make money and begin to gain ground so that in turn the service will come back. That means moving on. Panasonic over the let couple of years has been more concerned (my belief) with making a plasma cheaper. For consumer demand and the prices fall out from underneath LED instead of actually making a better performing product. That's why I say adequate advancement. There has been really nothing to say about plasma except "cheaper" or "best picture money can buy" If you own one, that was what you were thinking when you handed over the credit card. If you bought a Pioneer plasma years back... good for you. If you are buying a plasma now. You are bleeding the industry. Let's move on already.
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post #112 of 225 Old 03-20-2013, 10:06 AM
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I visited this thread a few days ago when it was still on page 1. Today I jumped to page 4 to see the most recent posts.

Where did all the intelligent discussion/speculation from the first page go?
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post #113 of 225 Old 03-20-2013, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stuckin96 View Post

I visited this thread a few days ago when it was still on page 1. Today I jumped to page 4 to see the most recent posts.

Where did all the intelligent discussion/speculation from the first page go?

Which people are you intending to insult with your post? Everybody after the first page?
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post #114 of 225 Old 03-20-2013, 11:33 AM
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Theaterscapes, learn what paragraphs are, or nobody is going to read that mess of a post. rolleyes.gif
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post #115 of 225 Old 03-20-2013, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

Enough. This isn't a "which tech is better" debate. Picture quality is purely subjective. What looks good to one doesn't always look good to the next. Personally I believe the PNE7000 series is crap. Which is my point. Looks good to one. Doesn't mean it's the same for others. Move On.

If it is such crap why is it ranked 3rd in lab tested TVs on televisioninfo.com? It recieved a 9.2. What score, did yours get? My cousin is a graphic designer and an LCD fanboy. The instant he saw my Life blu-ray on my set, his jaw dropped and his opinion changed. You just cannot get that PQ on LCD. And, this was upon him borrowing my Life set for 3 weeks and returning it. He has a very keen eye and got a perfect score on the x-rite color hue test.

To be fair hockey looks like crap on my TV.
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

I own a 2008 LCd, don't use the Motion Smoothing options, rarely i see blur. The blur problem is not much of a problem on post 2008 LCd's. It might be a problem when you watch low quality sources - such as SD cable - all the time.

Plasma also has Motion Smoothing options. I hate the Plasma ''soap opera effect'' tongue.gif
My plasma has no motion smoothing options. They are absent on 2011 and 2012 Samsung plasmas. tongue.gif

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post #116 of 225 Old 03-20-2013, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
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A few things I got out of the Samsung event I attended today:

1. With the F8500, Samsung has stepped up to the plate with an amazing-looking plasma panel. Deep black perfection.
2. Plasma will be around for a few more years, Samsung certainly intends to keep building and selling them.
3. An industry insider definitely wanted to put in this word: Don't believe rumors about Panasonic getting totally out of the plasma business - they remain just that, rumors.
4. In person, Kate Upton really is beautiful and Eli Manning is a very popular guy.
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post #117 of 225 Old 03-20-2013, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemeat View Post

Which people are you intending to insult with your post? Everybody after the first page?

The answer to the second part of your question is no.

As for the first part of your question: I think there are a few special posts that stand out. If you experience difficulty identifying them... sorry? lol

Maybe its just me. I read a topic like "Panasonic may end plasma production in 2014" and am personally compelled to look at the financial/economic drivers influencing any such business strategy. Moreover, a move like this would constitute part of a much broader "strategy" as opposed to a simple decision. Page 1 seemed to be exploring this avenue. In Page 4 its like the discussion has left the laboratory/boardroom and moved into the schoolyard (or bestbuy parking lot perhaps).
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post #118 of 225 Old 03-20-2013, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post

A few things I got out of the Samsung event I attended today:

1. With the F8500, Samsung has stepped up to the plate with an amazing-looking plasma panel. Deep black perfection.
2. Plasma will be around for a few more years, Samsung certainly intends to keep building and selling them.
3. An industry insider definitely wanted to put in this word: Don't believe rumors about Panasonic getting totally out of the plasma business - they remain just that, rumors.
4. In person, Kate Upton really is beautiful and Eli Manning is a very popular guy.
If what Samsung says is true of the PNxxF8500; 250% brighter, 400% blacker, then it should keep plasma in the game until OLED is affordable. There is not an LCD panel that will be able to touch it in PQ. It will put them all to shame at a fraction of the price.

THE ALL MIGHTY MACACASIAH HAS SPOKEN!
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post #119 of 225 Old 03-20-2013, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View PostI've calibrated more than a handful of 103" plasma in 2012 alone. If you can't find it then,... Try harder. rolleyes.gif
From the other posts that states streaming is good enough, now it's clear to me with your choice of LCD over plasma, good enough is truly good enough for you. Nothing wrong with that, though.

Cool, too bad you are in Canada, THX and HAA calibrator level II?

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post #120 of 225 Old 03-20-2013, 12:16 PM
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I don't have difficulty, it wasn't might statement. wink.gif I was merely curious if I and others were supposed to be offended smile.gif

FYI, the employees are probably doing their jumping jacks in the Best Buy parking lot for moral team building. Well they used to do that.

I personally would think it isn't a simple decision but I'm not an expert. Plasma displays are ridiculously inexpensive and I'm guessing they have to push new tech to justify higher prices and better margins (I though "smart tv's" was the current way of getting in some margin). Again, I'm not an expert, just taking a guess. I'm a big fan of Plasmas, with flaws and all (all display types have flaws).
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