Samsung F8500 Plasma HDTV: Deepest Blacks, Bright as LCD, Upgradeable - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 87 Old 03-26-2013, 08:42 PM
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I too have a 60” Kuro and have been waiting for a long time to upgrade.

I don’t have a lot of room on my wall but the bezel on the Kuro is 7-1/2” of the 67-1/2” overall diagonal width. It looks like the new 64” could be almost the same size with its smaller bezel.

So if it’s brighter, has less or no buzzing, runs cooler with better blacks I may have to upgrade.

While a brighter screen with better blacks can help it seems the real enemy of daytime viewing is the glare. The picture of the F8500 shows a lot of mirror like reflections going on as does my Kuro. Maybe we'll have e-paper displays and everyone be buying crazy $1000 lights for night time viewing. smile.gif

The only other things I’d be waiting on would be true 60-120p 3D with passive/no glasses and 4K+ resolution. But that is low on the list as I don’t think I’d really make use of them.

NetFlix is to have 4K streaming in a few years but I think Blu-Ray probably looks better now than their 4K streaming will.
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post #62 of 87 Old 03-26-2013, 08:59 PM
 
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If the Kuro you have is from the last generation, you'll have to keep looking for a panel with better blacks. Here's to hoping the ZT60 can at least match them.
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post #63 of 87 Old 03-28-2013, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

If the Kuro you have is from the last generation, you'll have to keep looking for a panel with better blacks. Here's to hoping the ZT60 can at least match them.

well...IMO...Panasonic and Samsung have already surpassed the Kuro in color "pop"

I think there is more to a good picture than just a deep black level



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post #64 of 87 Old 03-28-2013, 08:49 PM
 
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There is more, but contrast ratio is the most significant parameter when it comes to PQ, and color accuracy follows somewhat closely behind (which the Kuro has in spades). I don't miss the "pop" from the Samsung LCD that was replaced by the Kuro.
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post #65 of 87 Old 03-29-2013, 01:15 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

There is more, but contrast ratio is the most significant parameter when it comes to PQ, and color accuracy follows somewhat closely behind

Only up to a point. I've had a few displays which have significant colour decoding errors in certain ranges of colours, which utterly destroys the entire display for any video that features colours in that range. Sometimes you get a movie where the lighting of the skin tone is just in that "trouble range" , and it kills the entire movie. I think this is why the professional reviewers have now added the colour saturation tracking to their charts, because they have realised that certain material looks wrong even though it's measuring accurately at the edges of the gamut and grayscale.

I even find the testing of 25% saturation intervals to be inadequate as I've had 2 plasmas which are problematic at a certain luminance level which would not show up at all on the 25% saturation charts. Any content featuring that range of colour just looks completely wrong on those sets, despite them having perfectly linear grayscale and measuring perfect saturation at 25-100%. Anything below 25% saturation though, is a mess. And yes, lots of movies use skin tones in that range, sometimes for the entire movie!

So to me, colour accuracy is equally important as contrast ratio.
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post #66 of 87 Old 03-29-2013, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

There is more, but contrast ratio is the most significant parameter when it comes to PQ, and color accuracy follows somewhat closely behind (which the Kuro has in spades). I don't miss the "pop" from the Samsung LCD that was replaced by the Kuro.

Contrast is very important. But to contribute to the overall PQ as much as possible it has to be accompanied by a nice gamma. To me, gamma has made the most dramatic improvement to my PQ, followed very closely by accurate color over the whole saturation/luminance range.
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post #67 of 87 Old 03-29-2013, 12:13 PM
 
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I agree all 3 of the above are crucial to an accurate (and impressive) picture.
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post #68 of 87 Old 03-30-2013, 02:04 PM
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10? Try 5 (still unacceptable).

I found this video, It is interesting. Kuro vs Panny ZT vs Panny VT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK2YZiQOY1M

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post #69 of 87 Old 03-31-2013, 06:44 AM
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I thought this was a F8500 thread confused.gif Thanks for putting up the vid, but it's old news. And it's a manufacturer demo...



Here's a good link... Pretty tasty. But informative and educational most importantly.

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/display_myths_shattered


:thumbsup:
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post #70 of 87 Old 03-31-2013, 11:21 AM
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great article! thanks! funny i almost asked this very question a few days ago. and was exactly what i thought the answer would be... ALL MARKETING HYPE!!! ok, mostly anyway wink.gif

Samsung PN51F8500. Marantz SR5008. Oppo BDP 103D. Sony BDP S5100. Emp Tek E55TIB LR, E5CIB, E55WIB. Sennheiser Momentum. Sennheiser 598.
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post #71 of 87 Old 04-01-2013, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by ljmart View Post

great article! thanks! funny i almost asked this very question a few days ago. and was exactly what i thought the answer would be... ALL MARKETING HYPE!!! ok, mostly anyway wink.gif


It works though doesn't it. The more times i read it, the more it sinks in and in relevance to recent times and undoubtedly some classic future moments also smile.gif
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post #72 of 87 Old 04-03-2013, 03:52 AM
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F8500 is out for a few days now, where are all deep reviews with black level and input lag?
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post #73 of 87 Old 04-03-2013, 04:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wesslan1 View Post

F8500 is out for a few days now, where are all deep reviews with black level and input lag?

There are some good observations here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1463454/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk

Looks like the F8500 did well, even if it's not really a "Kuro Killer". In about one month there will be more reviews and comparisons than you can shake a stick at.

Find out more about Mark Henninger at www.imagicdigital.com
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post #74 of 87 Old 04-03-2013, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by erkq View Post

Contrast is very important. But to contribute to the overall PQ as much as possible it has to be accompanied by a nice gamma. To me, gamma has made the most dramatic improvement to my PQ, followed very closely by accurate color over the whole saturation/luminance range.

+1,000,000

It's amazing how much difference gamma makes to the overall contrast or "depth" of the image. A trend I've noticed with the Panasonic and Samsung plasmas as of late is that they like to put in a boost to the gamma at ~10% stimulus, presumably as an attempt to boost the shadow detail. You will see this on many of the calibration charts at the various review sites, a sudden dip at 10%. I have measured this on 2 of my samsung plasmas as well. I find that this actually reduces the contrast of low APL scenes , eg. where the background of a scene is at ~10% stimulus. The contrast of an actors face against the background is visibly less. Most of the time this won't be noticeable, but on movies which feature really subtle lighting it can make a significant difference.

Especially important to me is the gamma tracking of the red channel, as it has a large effect on the appearance of skin tones as red is often the dominant colour component in skin tones. An interesting check to perform is to measure gamma of 10 red windows, and see how closely it matches the gamma of 10 grey windows. On my current set , a samsung 51D450, the red gamma tracking is so far off the grayscale tracking it's not even funny. What I ended up doing was selecting the "xvycc" gamut in the picture options, which causes the gamut to become less accurate, but it greatly improves the linearity of the red channel, such that it now accurately matches the gamma tracking of grey.
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post #75 of 87 Old 04-03-2013, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assm0de View Post

+1,000,000

...

An interesting check to perform is to measure gamma of 10 red windows, and see how closely it matches the gamma of 10 grey windows. On my current set , a samsung 51D450, the red gamma tracking is so far off the grayscale tracking it's not even funny.

...

I post about the importance of gamma a fair amount, when appropriate, because I am such a firm believer. It's amazing the enthusiastic reactions I get. It seems to be widely accepted.

My calibration suite (CalMAN/Radiance/C6) calibrates gray scale along with gamma so I've never had the "red" problem. But it makes sense.
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post #76 of 87 Old 04-03-2013, 02:12 PM
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With the Samsung F8500 plasma having a much brighter screen has it been mentioned how long you can expect the panel will
Last before it fades?
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post #77 of 87 Old 04-10-2013, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
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With the Samsung F8500 plasma having a much brighter screen has it been mentioned how long you can expect the panel will
Last before it fades?

The screen is brighter because the F8500 is more efficient than its predecessors, the result of engineering changes that allowed more phosphor to be squeezed into each plasma cell - the cell wall was made thinner. The F8500 ought to age at roughly the same rate as any other contemporary plasma HDTV.

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post #78 of 87 Old 05-04-2013, 08:35 AM
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I just bought the 51" F8500 and I can hear the buzzing in the top corners, but only if I put my ear right up to it. I mean you have to be like a couple of inches away from it to hear it. I never even noticed it until people started asking "does it have the buzzing". Very unnoticeable, I wouldn't worry about the buzz sound. Very nice TV, just wondering if plasma's are being phased out all together. I read that 2013 is the last year that Panasonic will produce plasma TV's. The ZT series is going to be the last of the Plasma's for Panasonic.
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post #79 of 87 Old 05-07-2013, 10:59 AM - Thread Starter
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I just bought the 51" F8500 and I can hear the buzzing in the top corners, but only if I put my ear right up to it. I mean you have to be like a couple of inches away from it to hear it. I never even noticed it until people started asking "does it have the buzzing". Very unnoticeable, I wouldn't worry about the buzz sound. Very nice TV, just wondering if plasma's are being phased out all together. I read that 2013 is the last year that Panasonic will produce plasma TV's. The ZT series is going to be the last of the Plasma's for Panasonic.

Panasonic will continue to produce plasma televisions beyond the 2013. Although the news about Panasonic's future plans was a bit difficult to decipher, the gist of it was this: the company will no longer develop new plasma panels. It will continue to improve the ones that it has, and it will continue to produce plasma televisions


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post #80 of 87 Old 05-07-2013, 11:06 PM
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Had a great experience today in Best Buy (magnolia section). They just brought out the new 65" vt60, next to that 65" vt50, and a 64" f8500. Black levels on all of them are very very close. I was really disappointed the VT60 was really not much different then the vt50. Maybe the Vt60 was a touch darker. The real winner in the room was the Samsung F8500. The vibrant color, contrast, depth and sharpness, flat out blew away panasonic. A red rosé slowly rotated on the screens... On the Samsung it had such depth that you felt like you can touch it. Was actually there to buy a panasonic vt 60 or vt50 depending on picture difference. Samsung messed up that day for me, now it's back to doing more research with added Samsung F8599. Going back with some bluray to really test them out.

If your in southern ca, store is in Torrance at PCH and Hawthorne . Need to hurry VT50 is the display model being sold.
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post #81 of 87 Old 05-07-2013, 11:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Had a great experience today in Best Buy (magnolia section). They just brought out the new 65" vt60, next to that 65" vt50, and a 64" f8500. Black levels on all of them are very very close. I was really disappointed the VT60 was really not much different then the vt50. Maybe the Vt60 was a touch darker. The real winner in the room was the Samsung F8500. The vibrant color, contrast, depth and sharpness, flat out blew away panasonic. A red rosé slowly rotated on the screens... On the Samsung it had such depth that you felt like you can touch it. Was actually there to buy a panasonic vt 60 or vt50 depending on picture difference. Samsung messed up that day for me, now it's back to doing more research with added Samsung F8599. Going back with some bluray to really test them out.

If your in southern ca, store is in Torrance at PCH and Hawthorne . Need to hurry VT50 is the display model being sold.

 

On one hand, there is no doubt that the new Samsung is the brightest plasma around. On the other hand, making judgments based on TVs that you saw at Best Buy can lead to erroneous conclusions. The chances are that none of those TVs were properly calibrated. At a Best Buy, the likelihood is they were set to their brightest mode. In such a circumstance, the Samsung would clearly outshine the competition.
 
I'm not saying that the 8500 is better looking overall than the Panasonic models, nor am I saying it is worse. But I will have exactly such an opinion come Saturday, and I would recommend that you wait. The first major, credible shootout featuring 2013 models will occur on Friday. I will report the results in the AVS news section.

Find out more about Mark Henninger at www.imagicdigital.com
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post #82 of 87 Old 05-07-2013, 11:40 PM
 
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^Most exciting shootout evar.
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post #83 of 87 Old 05-09-2013, 10:49 PM
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I will so be looking forward to that shootout. smile.gif

Yeah I know you can't judge a TV based on the Best Buy clerks slapping the TV's on the wall. Actually they do no adjustment whatever, it is however the mfg has it set out of the box, I watched them do it. Was just impressed what a huge improvement Samsung had over last years models. The lower Samsung plasma's do not have the same picture quality as the F8500.

Actually when I was in the store their were 2 VT 60, 3 VT 50's and 2 F8500's all within 10'. Was just interesting to be able to compare the 3 different models side by side. The VT 50 and VT 60 were side by side.
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post #84 of 87 Old 07-19-2013, 09:53 AM
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I am considering the F8500 and all it's bells and whistles but am concerned of the operation. I have Directv. I don't currently use the tv remote with it.
I use the Directv RF remote for everything so it would seem the remote with this unit in my case would only be used for internet, and Skype correct?
In other words I will be messing around with two remotes instead of the one relatively smart remote provided by Direct. How is someone on direct using this?
Thanks
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post #85 of 87 Old 07-19-2013, 09:56 AM
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i have this tv and directv but i use a harmony remote and it does it all-- i don't see how the directv remote would work with the internet apps and browser of the tv.

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post #86 of 87 Old 07-23-2013, 08:50 AM
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can i ask which harmony remote?
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post #87 of 87 Old 07-23-2013, 09:08 AM
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can i ask which harmony remote?

sure - the Harmony One - i've been using harmony remotes for years - and highly recommend them

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