Sony Announces Pricing for 55" and 65" 4K UHDTV Sets, 4K Media Server - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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Latest Industry News > Sony Announces Pricing for 55" and 65" 4K UHDTV Sets, 4K Media Server
steve1971's Avatar steve1971 08:29 AM 04-20-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris5028 View Post

I've seen enough to wait on OLED. Hopefully my Panasonic keeps going till they are affordable.

I'm with you Chris. I will wait until OLED. Until then I will stay with my HX750.

Dan Hitchman's Avatar Dan Hitchman 01:04 PM 04-20-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

Have the HDMI specs for these new TVs been confirmed? I'm not sure if Sony announced a release date yet but I'm assuming next month at the very earliest. You'd think they should have released them by now if it wont get the 2.0 spec. It wouldn't surprise me if they'd want these TVs to be 2.0 capable and are delaying until it happens. Who knows. I currently can't afford a 5 grand TV regardless.

I'm really hoping the PS4 gets it though. That wont be released until perhaps October of this year so theirs almost no excuse for that to not have HDMI 2.0.


That didn't stop them from prematurely releasing the original PS3 with already outdated HDMI chipsets. That's why the fat players couldn't bitstream high end audio tracks (had to internally convert them to PCM)... and both it and the slim models have trouble with 3D and high resolution audio playing together nicely.

Sony has their heads so far up their own... you get the picture. smile.gif
discodol's Avatar discodol 03:30 PM 04-20-2013
Will the FMP-X1 be able to function as a media player/server for content on other devices in the home such as computers, external disk drives, or media servers?

If so I will put off buying a WD TV Live Hub 2TB Media Center and wait for the Sony box.
Dan Hitchman's Avatar Dan Hitchman 08:50 PM 04-20-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by discodol View Post

Will the FMP-X1 be able to function as a media player/server for content on other devices in the home such as computers, external disk drives, or media servers?

If so I will put off buying a WD TV Live Hub 2TB Media Center and wait for the Sony box.

All indications are that the Sony download player is proprietary. This is part of the problem with download only schemes from the studios. Don't feed the Hollywood trolls.
Eddie E's Avatar Eddie E 07:45 AM 04-21-2013
I just received an email ad from Best Buy. They are now excepting pre-orders on the 4K sets. 5K for the 55" and 7K for the 65".
tubetwister's Avatar tubetwister 12:23 PM 04-22-2013
I think it takes about ~ 100 mbps to stream compressed 4k content and something on the order of 500 mbps to stream or transfer uncompressed 4k Faster than my U verse internet connection for sure but doable locally with 802.11 n or better wi fi . Not to mention they are working on 8K further out also.

There is Seiki 50-inch 4K TV on sale for $1,299 TCL,Hisense.LG ,Samsung ,Westinghouse, and others will likely follow suite with lower cost 4k sets probably not as low Seiki though.
TCL and Samsung own panel maker CSOT (China Star Optical Technology) who makes a couple of grades of 4k panels as well as regular HD panels
at least 5 other manufacturers are producing 4K panels
vinnie97's Avatar vinnie97 01:39 PM 04-22-2013
^U-Verse, my condolences. AT&T will milk that copper network until kingdom come (and sadly, Verizon has ceased its FIOS deployment).
BiggAW's Avatar BiggAW 04:52 PM 04-22-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

^U-Verse, my condolences. AT&T will milk that copper network until kingdom come (and sadly, Verizon has ceased its FIOS deployment).

Yup, unfortunately. They must be really constipated given how they get almost no fiber.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post

I think it takes about ~ 100 mbps to stream compressed 4k content and something on the order of 500 mbps to stream or transfer uncompressed 4k Faster than my U verse internet connection for sure but doable locally with 802.11 n or better wi fi . Not to mention they are working on 8K further out also.

That's absurd. Using today's MPEG-4 AVC codecs, you can do good 1080p at around 9.5mbps, or 38mbps for 4k. HEVC is double as efficient, so figure you go to 20mbps. I've heard the claim of 38mbps HEVC for 4k, but they're throwing a ton of data at it, like Blu-Ray does, well past the ability of the human eye to see it. Even at 38mbps, at least half the country has access to internet connections to stream that. I know on Comcast, my 50mbps connection is pretty solid at around 62mbps, so 38mbps would be no issue for me.

Every time I see a post about needing 100mbps, I think how we need some critical thinking and math skills. 9.5mbps * 4 != 100mbps. And that's to be visually equivalent with Blu-Ray quality. Heck, if you go interlaced, you could do 4k in MPEG-2 with less than 100mbps, ideally about 75mbps, but with Comcast style compression, 3840x2160i would be about 48mbps.
AVTrauma's Avatar AVTrauma 12:41 AM 04-24-2013
I personnally will be very disappointed if 4K content remains only available via streaming/downloads.

Again, what is the size of the HDD on the server? What are the limitations of expansion (number of HDDs, size of HDDs). To get new content, must we deleat the content we already have? I don't like the idea of having to pay money (again) to view content I have previously purchased for viewing. I would want to be able to accrue a "4K library" just as we all do with our current video & music collections.

I also wonder about the time it would take to download 4K content, be it at 10mbps or 40mbps.

... and 8K is just around the corner too!
imagic's Avatar imagic 08:09 AM 04-24-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVTrauma View Post

I personnally will be very disappointed if 4K content remains only available via streaming/downloads.

Again, what is the size of the HDD on the server? What are the limitations of expansion (number of HDDs, size of HDDs). To get new content, must we deleat the content we already have? I don't like the idea of having to pay money (again) to view content I have previously purchased for viewing. I would want to be able to accrue a "4K library" just as we all do with our current video & music collections.

I also wonder about the time it would take to download 4K content, be it at 10mbps or 40mbps.

... and 8K is just around the corner too!

Honestly, just as 1080p "digital copies" are already delivered on disk, as a part of some deluxe Blu-ray packages — so too can 4K copies. The file could even be split up onto two discs if need be. There is no specific need for a new standard to make this work, especially if the discs can download onto a server. I'm going to take a wild guess and say that such a capability might be featured in the PlayStation 4. We shall see. A file is a file, whether you download it or it comes on a data disc.


BiggAW's Avatar BiggAW 02:57 PM 04-24-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVTrauma View Post

I personnally will be very disappointed if 4K content remains only available via streaming/downloads.

Again, what is the size of the HDD on the server? What are the limitations of expansion (number of HDDs, size of HDDs). To get new content, must we deleat the content we already have? I don't like the idea of having to pay money (again) to view content I have previously purchased for viewing. I would want to be able to accrue a "4K library" just as we all do with our current video & music collections.

Stream. Rent. Done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

Honestly, just as 1080p "digital copies" are already delivered on disk, as a part of some deluxe Blu-ray packages — so too can 4K copies. The file could even be split up onto two discs if need be. There is no specific need for a new standard to make this work, especially if the discs can download onto a server. I'm going to take a wild guess and say that such a capability might be featured in the PlayStation 4. We shall see. A file is a file, whether you download it or it comes on a data disc.

They could have done HD on DVDs, but they didn't want to because they wanted more DRM. I have a feeling it will be the same thing with Blu-Ray and 4k.
Speakerphile's Avatar Speakerphile 05:33 PM 04-24-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVTrauma View Post

I personnally will be very disappointed if 4K content remains only available via streaming/downloads.

Again, what is the size of the HDD on the server? What are the limitations of expansion (number of HDDs, size of HDDs). To get new content, must we deleat the content we already have? I don't like the idea of having to pay money (again) to view content I have previously purchased for viewing. I would want to be able to accrue a "4K library" just as we all do with our current video & music collections.

I also wonder about the time it would take to download 4K content, be it at 10mbps or 40mbps.

... and 8K is just around the corner too!

The hard drive is 2TB. It will be expandable via USB. They mentioned that a majority of content will play instantly, though didn't go into detail about how that was possible. Draw your own conclusions with that. Also, I can confirm that this is limited to Sony televisions.
badchad65's Avatar badchad65 08:49 AM 04-25-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVTrauma View Post

I personnally will be very disappointed if 4K content remains only available via streaming/downloads.

Me too, but market forces will drive that decision. I think the Redbox machines in my area carry mostly DVD's. Perhaps this is a crude indicator of the number of blu-ray vs. DVD player owners. Unfortunately, I think 4k adoption will be lesser still. It'll be cost-based decision whether manufcturers will bring physical 4k discs to market.

I have no problem downloading content but would hope you can "rent" said content. If there is no or little broadcast 4k content, and you can only download 4k movies at $15-20 a pop, I think ti'll be an uphill battle for 4k.
BiggAW's Avatar BiggAW 05:29 PM 04-25-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speakerphile View Post

The hard drive is 2TB. It will be expandable via USB. They mentioned that a majority of content will play instantly, though didn't go into detail about how that was possible. Draw your own conclusions with that. Also, I can confirm that this is limited to Sony televisions.

Let me guess? This one is really tough. 40mbps video with a 60mbps internet connection? Wow, that was hard. Brighthouse just announced new pricing on their 90mbps service. FIOS is about 80mbps real world, they claim 75mbps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by badchad65 View Post

Me too, but market forces will drive that decision. I think the Redbox machines in my area carry mostly DVD's. Perhaps this is a crude indicator of the number of blu-ray vs. DVD player owners. Unfortunately, I think 4k adoption will be lesser still. It'll be cost-based decision whether manufcturers will bring physical 4k discs to market.

I have no problem downloading content but would hope you can "rent" said content. If there is no or little broadcast 4k content, and you can only download 4k movies at $15-20 a pop, I think ti'll be an uphill battle for 4k.

That's pretty bad considering how cheap and ubiquitous Blu-Ray is.
comfynumb's Avatar comfynumb 07:35 AM 05-05-2013
LeeSoFl's Avatar LeeSoFl 06:32 PM 06-03-2013
Regarding HDMI 2.0:

"At a 4K press event currently held in LA, Sony suggested that it will offer a solution to make its televisions compatible with the higher frame rates when the new HDMI standard is officially unveiled. While none of the Sony reps were able to go on the record, they strongly hinted that consumers that are now buying 55, 65 or 84-inch UHD televisions won't be left out in the cold. That likely means that the input board in the TV could be replaced, but Sony did not want to get ahead of itself."

source: http://us.hardware.info/news/34661/samsung-and-sony-to-offer-hdmi-20-upgrade-for-uhd-tvs

steve1971's Avatar steve1971 06:58 AM 06-04-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeSoFl View Post

Regarding HDMI 2.0:

"At a 4K press event currently held in LA, Sony suggested that it will offer a solution to make its televisions compatible with the higher frame rates when the new HDMI standard is officially unveiled. While none of the Sony reps were able to go on the record, they strongly hinted that consumers that are now buying 55, 65 or 84-inch UHD televisions won't be left out in the cold. That likely means that the input board in the TV could be replaced, but Sony did not want to get ahead of itself."

source: http://us.hardware.info/news/34661/samsung-and-sony-to-offer-hdmi-20-upgrade-for-uhd-tvs


So the "Input board" could be replaced in the tv's? I wouldnt want the tv to be taken apart after I spent a fortune on it. Rediculouse if you ask me.
TMcG's Avatar TMcG 07:03 AM 06-04-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1971 View Post

So the "Input board" could be replaced in the tv's? I wouldnt want the tv to be taken apart after I spent a fortune on it. Rediculouse if you ask me.

If I spent $25k on the 84" TV, I would be very happy to know there is an upgrade path down the road rather than taking a big hit selling off the TV and buying its replacement just to get into the latest 4k capable inputs. If designed properly, it could be a snap-out and snap-in proposition to swap out the input cards. Why wouldn't you want an upgrade path??
comfynumb's Avatar comfynumb 07:15 AM 06-04-2013
^^ I would think it's a plus if it was upgradable. Who wouldn't want 2.0 when it comes out? Everything should be upgradable IMO.
jbug's Avatar jbug 07:40 AM 06-04-2013
I agree and it would be a terrible PR disaster for Sony not to follow through. As bad (financially) as they and other CE companies need folks to be the first one on the block to buy their introductions they would be daft to not stand with them. It's happened before but with the advent of the internet bad word of mouth is amplified untold times and what company wants that? Especially a company that is trying to maintain and gain new customers.
biliam1982's Avatar biliam1982 04:46 AM 06-08-2013
So I just saw an ad for the Sony 4K TV on YouTube. One of those commercials they make you watch as you switch between videos.

Anyways, I thought I would see what resolution you could watch it in, and the highest available option was 360p.

While I know it doesn't mean much, I thought it was kinda funny.
b4z's Avatar b4z 05:54 AM 06-08-2013
Saw the 4k Sony at my Best Buy. Shouldn't it be called Uktra HD to avoid confusion with cinema 4k? Anyway. The detail was great but at around 7-8' it wasn't any better. And I understand it is edgelit and not full array local dimming. Sonys obviously trying to hit a price point, but was that smart on their part?
Didn't like the integrated speakers on the side. I always go after the smallest for factor.
In some ways I preferred the upconverted snowboarding scenes to the full 4k soccer match. The snowboarding had a dimensionality to it.
I think there was other content they could have used that would have shown off the pq better than an artificially lit soccer stadium.
jbug's Avatar jbug 09:49 AM 06-08-2013
I went to BB last night and had them hook up a BD player to the 65" set and play some 3D movies. I saw what I have been wanting to see since 3D came out and that is a bright as it should be picture with the plus of excellent color. I almost pulled the trigger but I will be patient. On the other hand If Sony had offered a 75" set it would have been mine. That is one of the draw backs for me. I have a 65VT50 but I want at least a 75" set. I'd like to sit in on the meeting where TV manufacturers decide on the sizes of the TVs they will release just to see what bullet points they come up with. The 84" UHDs are too expensive at this time.
Mfusick's Avatar Mfusick 02:27 PM 06-14-2013
I'd imagine you could build a modest priced HTPC ($1000) that could scale to 4k resolution with great quality to match one of these bad boys.
645824's Avatar 645824 11:59 AM 06-27-2013
The problem of the size of 4K on a disk may not be an issue. 4-layer blurays can hold 100GB; although I only have experience with the 2-layer 50GB blurays that I use for storing data.

And a new take on old technology may expand disk capacity dramatically by Gan, Cao, Evans, and Gu:

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/159245-new-optical-laser-can-increase-dvd-storage-up-to-one-petabyte

http://theconversation.com/more-data-storage-heres-how-to-fit-1-000-terabytes-on-a-dvd-15306

http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2013/130619/ncomms3061/full/ncomms3061.html

http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2013/130619/ncomms3061/pdf/ncomms3061.pdf

Scott
comfynumb's Avatar comfynumb 12:52 PM 06-27-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by 645824 View Post

The problem of the size of 4K on a disk may not be an issue. 4-layer blurays can hold 100GB; although I only have experience with the 2-layer 50GB blurays that I use for storing data.

And a new take on old technology may expand disk capacity dramatically by Gan, Cao, Evans, and Gu:

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/159245-new-optical-laser-can-increase-dvd-storage-up-to-one-petabyte

http://theconversation.com/more-data-storage-heres-how-to-fit-1-000-terabytes-on-a-dvd-15306

http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2013/130619/ncomms3061/full/ncomms3061.html

http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2013/130619/ncomms3061/pdf/ncomms3061.pdf

Scott



It sure looks like they are getting ready for 4K physical media. Why else develop a BD that can hold that much data?
vinnie97's Avatar vinnie97 01:39 PM 06-27-2013
My takeaway from those links is different. They are independent scientific experiments focusing on DVD, not necessarily related to what the BDA is considering or how much Blu-ray is capable of holding (to say nothing of the bandwidth that can be delivered from discs in real-time).
comfynumb's Avatar comfynumb 02:48 PM 06-27-2013
I reread the articles there's not really a mention of BD my bad, I guess it was wishful thinking biggrin.gif It seems the studies have more to do with the beam that reads the data than the media itself. I'm assuming the BDA has a lot of input from many different places because as far as I know they just govern and not test. Those independent tests would make me take notice if I was on the BDA.
Dan Hitchman's Avatar Dan Hitchman 04:38 PM 06-27-2013
There are certain patents with the Blu-ray media disc format that certain unnameable companies that have a large stake in the BDA will want to continue. Anything the BDA comes up with as far as larger storage, etc. for UHD video and audio will be based on higher capacity Blu discs that have been invented since the first Blu's came on the market. One could almost bet on it. It may only be current 128 GB BDXL's or TDK's 200 GB discs, etc.
Speakerphile's Avatar Speakerphile 07:04 PM 06-28-2013
Manufacturers are working on a 4K BD standard. I would expect to hear more by Christmas.
Tags: Sony Xbr 55x900a 55 Inch 4k Ultra Hd 3d Led Tv , Sony Xbr 65x900a 65 Inch 1080p 120hz 3d Led 4k Ultra Hdtv
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