Dolby Announces Agreement with Cameron/Pace Group to Use Glasses-Free Dolby 3D - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 48 Old 04-09-2013, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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At the National Association of Broadcasters (NAB) convention in Las Vegas this week, Dolby, Philips, and the Cameron/Pace Group (CPG) jointly announced that CPG will use Dolby 3D autostereoscopic (glasses-free) display technology in its video workflow and to collaborate on the use of the Dolby 3D format in the home.

 

Founded by James Cameron and Vince Pace, CPG is dedicated to advancing 3D through the development of creative tools for content creators across all media channels. "James Cameron broke new ground in entertainment with his use of 3D in film, but it's been a challenge to bring his vision to the home and to smartphones and tablets," says Pace, founder and co-chairman of CPG. "The Dolby 3D format gives filmmakers the means to bring an artistic vision through production and distribution all the way to presentation, while delivering what we believe to be the best possible 3D experience to consumers—without the need for special glasses."

 

Developed in collaboration with Philips, Dolby 3D was first introduced at NAB last year. The system provides 28 stereo views in so-called "viewing cones." A special algorithm, which is adapted to each panel's characteristics, smoothes out the transition from one cone to the next as you move around the display.

 

Of course, autostereoscopic 3D is much like passive-glasses 3D—the vertical resolution must be cut in half for each eye. Last year's demo was shown on a 4K LCD TV (seen in the photo above) with a lenticular filter, providing roughly 2K resolution for each eye, and the transition from one position to the next was indeed much smoother than I've ever seen before. However, it was not completely seamless, which a Dolby rep admitted would never be possible. Still, it was very impressive, and the 3D effect was quite apparent. In fact, it's the best autostereoscopic display I've seen so far.


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post #2 of 48 Old 04-09-2013, 01:26 PM
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That's awesome! Glad to see some companies are working on this technology. I really think glasses-free 3D is the best solution that will work for the average joe on a mass scale.

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post #3 of 48 Old 04-09-2013, 02:01 PM
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Scott - Interesting article. I am surprised to see that glasses-free 3D may actually becoming a reality for larger displays.
I had previously understood (or at least thought I did) glasses-free, for smaller hand-held displays.

Still trying to get my mind around this one:
So it seems the magic is having 28 stereo pairs organized into "viewing cones", and then the algorithm to tie it all these pairs (panels) together? Does that mean 28 panels,or...??

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post #4 of 48 Old 04-09-2013, 02:11 PM
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awesome, I think glasses free is a logical step for 3d smile.gif

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post #5 of 48 Old 04-09-2013, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cuzed2 View Post

Scott - Interesting article. I am surprised to see that glasses-free 3D may actually becoming a reality for larger displays.
I had previously understood (or at least thought I did) glasses-free, for smaller hand-held displays.

Still trying to get my mind around this one:
So it seems the magic is having 28 stereo pairs organized into "viewing cones", and then the algorithm to tie it all these pairs (panels) together? Does that mean 28 panels,or...??


No, one panel with a special film that directs the light into 28 viewing cones, and the algorithm smoothes the transition between them as you move around. Not perfectly, but better than any other autostereo display I've seen. You're right that autostereo has been used mostly for smaller handheld devices, which do it easier than large panels.


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post #6 of 48 Old 04-09-2013, 02:34 PM
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"No, one panel with a special film that directs the light into 28 viewing cones"

Very Interesting - sounds quite proprietary! Looking forward to eventually learning more

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post #7 of 48 Old 04-09-2013, 02:36 PM
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This is exactly why I didn't jump on the 3D bandwagon several years ago. I knew this was going to happen but not this fast. Scott is there any word on when this might be available for home theater use? And if it could stop some people from getting sick from 3D?
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post #8 of 48 Old 04-09-2013, 02:58 PM
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Amazing. I think this for future will definitely stop all the discussions about which 3D glasses are best for which TV ect. You'd have all you need on the TV.

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post #9 of 48 Old 04-09-2013, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

This is exactly why I didn't jump on the 3D bandwagon several years ago. I knew this was going to happen but not this fast. Scott is there any word on when this might be available for home theater use? And if it could stop some people from getting sick from 3D?


I've heard no word about when it will be available on consumer flat panels, but I suspect it will be a while. Manufacturers will have to license the technology from Dolby, then implement it in their TVs. As far as I know, TV-development cycles are at least a year long, so I'd say it'll be a couple of years at minimum, unless one or more manufacturers have already licensed it and begun development in secret. I think that 3D sickness will be greatly reduced with autostereo compared with glasses-based 3D, but I don't know for sure. Keep in mind this is all speculation on my part.


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post #10 of 48 Old 04-09-2013, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
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BTW, one thing I'm concerned about is, what will 2D content look like through the Dolby 3D film on the screen? Will that film affect 2D performance? I can't see how it wouldn't, but I don't know. I'll try to find out...


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post #11 of 48 Old 04-09-2013, 03:25 PM
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I've heard no word about when it will be available on consumer flat panels, but I suspect it will be a while. Manufacturers will have to license the technology from Dolby, then implement it in their TVs. As far as I know, TV-development cycles are at least a year long, so I'd say it'll be a couple of years at minimum, unless one or more manufacturers have already licensed it and begun development in secret. I think that 3D sickness will be greatly reduced with autostereo compared with glasses-based 3D, but I don't know for sure. Keep in mind this is all speculation on my part.



It is very interesting. 4K 3D? That's when I'll get the 4K panel. Thanks for the info smile.gif
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post #12 of 48 Old 04-09-2013, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post

BTW, one thing I'm concerned about is, what will 2D content look like through the Dolby 3D film on the screen? Will that film affect 2D performance? I can't see how it wouldn't, but I don't know. I'll try to find out...



I would think it would effect it.
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post #13 of 48 Old 04-09-2013, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post

BTW, one thing I'm concerned about is, what will 2D content look like through the Dolby 3D film on the screen? Will that film affect 2D performance? I can't see how it wouldn't, but I don't know. I'll try to find out...

That's the million dollar question.

If the can't get 2D to look good on these screens, then this is basically a non-starter.

On the other hand, this is the first plausible reason for sub 60" 4k screens, as the average human eye can't tell much of a difference between HD and 4k from a normal seating distance on smaller screens.
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post #14 of 48 Old 04-09-2013, 04:24 PM
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Funny thing here - go outside and take a look - 3D, and with NO glasses! (Except for those of us our sight ain't what it use to be!)
One would think that if all the great minds got to getther, they could come up with a mathamatical equation that would seemingly put things on the screen to appear to have depth like when we look outside. Again with no glasses - just all done through math equations on how to present the video material. Something in the order of what they do with sound now.
With this new system then, whereas I sit in only one position most of the time, this should look great! (Just like I don't worry about off angle blooming on my LED set.)
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post #15 of 48 Old 04-09-2013, 07:56 PM
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Something in the order of what they do with sound now.

Filtering a different image to each eye (fake 3D) is the equivalent of surround sound from a stereo source, which tries to mimic the alteration of sound waves that occurs when they hit all those funny ridges in your ear. The other option is to track head movement and adjust the perspective of the video accordingly, but then you always have to be moving your head to get the illusion of 3D, and you would need to film all your content with a Lytro type camera. Otherwise, a really high quality display that is calibrated and placed in a well designed viewing environment will often have more "dimensionality", i.e. your brain will read all the well preserved depth cues and perceive some level of depth and realism.
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post #16 of 48 Old 04-10-2013, 04:31 AM
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Filtering a different image to each eye (fake 3D) is the equivalent of surround sound from a stereo source, which tries to mimic the alteration of sound waves that occurs when they hit all those funny ridges in your ear. The other option is to track head movement and adjust the perspective of the video ac.cordingly, but then you always have to be moving your head to get the illusion of 3D, and you would need to film all your content with a Lytro type camera. Otherwise, a really high quality display that is calibrated and placed in a well designed viewing environment will often have more "dimensionality", i.e. your brain will read all the well preserved depth cues and perceive some level of depth and realism.

Actually, stereoscopic 3D is equivalent to stereo sound, not surround sound derived from stereo. 2D video is the same a monophonic sound. That's why I don't get your conclusion: 3D is fake, so sometimes 2D is more 3D than 3D? All things being equal, a stereoscopic display shows depth and a 2D display does not. That's the difference and it's a big one.

The kind of 3D reproduction you discuss, great for VR applications and video games, but that's not how TV and movies work. Movies and shows are inherently linear and guide the viewer through the scene, with a fixed perspective. Traditional stereoscopic techniques are exactly appropriate for linear presentations.

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post #17 of 48 Old 04-10-2013, 07:47 AM
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This is exactly why I didn't jump on the 3D bandwagon several years ago. I knew this was going to happen but not this fast. Scott is there any word on when this might be available for home theater use? And if it could stop some people from getting sick from 3D?

So basically you decided not to buy a TV or blu-ray player at all since pretty much everything comes with 3D capability for free.
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post #18 of 48 Old 04-10-2013, 07:56 AM
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This sounds awesome, good to know they are trying new things. I have the same concern as others, will this amazing 3D be at the expense of excellent 2D? Seems that this product is tailored specifically to 3D. How will these "viewing cones" change the performance of the overall tv? Or will it just be an added feature that can be deactivated like current 3D models.
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post #19 of 48 Old 04-10-2013, 11:26 AM
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Unfortunately this 3D tech most likely will not work with a projection system in either a commercial theater or a home theater, unless they can make a special screen with the same multi-reflective angles... but i doubt any algorithm could work with that, where the reflected image is completely independant from the projector display system itself... Since I have little interest in 3D unless it's projected on a big screen, it will still be a very long time until I will be able to discard my glasses at home. Same goes for commercial theater moviegoers.

I still think glasses-less 3D will ALWAYS be a weak compromise... smile.gif

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post #20 of 48 Old 04-10-2013, 11:44 AM
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So basically you decided not to buy a TV or blu-ray player at all since pretty much everything comes with 3D capability for free.



I really don't understand your question? I have the Oppo 93, so it is a blu ray player and it does 3D also. If your asking what the reason is I didn't go 3D it's because I knew they were working on glasses free 3D. So I just waited to see where it was going.
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post #21 of 48 Old 04-10-2013, 01:09 PM
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Currently, glasses free is crap unless everybody is sitting in one centralized location. It will most likely never be the standard in theaters as the seating position varies too much.

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post #22 of 48 Old 04-11-2013, 02:05 PM
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Funny thing here - go outside and take a look - 3D, and with NO glasses! (Except for those of us our sight ain't what it use to be!)
One would think that if all the great minds got to getther, they could come up with a mathamatical equation that would seemingly put things on the screen to appear to have depth like when we look outside. Again with no glasses - just all done through math equations on how to present the video material. Something in the order of what they do with sound now...

I believe that's not possible. You still need parallax (difference between left and right eye views) to give 3D. The physical world is presenting multiple views, which is interpreted through the parallax of our two eye viewing. Glases-free, as well as 3D glass methods are all providing parallax.

The only other method is holographic, which is actually presenting our two eyes with multiple view information.

I'm interested in hearing the limitations of autostereoscopy, given that the Dolby rep said the method would never be perfect.
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post #23 of 48 Old 04-11-2013, 05:18 PM
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I believe that's not possible. You still need parallax (difference between left and right eye views) to give 3D. The physical world is presenting multiple views, which is interpreted through the parallax of our two eye viewing. Glases-free, as well as 3D glass methods are all providing parallax.

The only other method is holographic, which is actually presenting our two eyes with multiple view information.

I'm interested in hearing the limitations of autostereoscopy, given that the Dolby rep said the method would never be perfect.

The transition between viewing cones will never be perfect, that's all they said. The 3D should look seamless when the viewer is properly positioned.

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post #24 of 48 Old 04-12-2013, 11:31 AM
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The transition between viewing cones will never be perfect, that's all they said. The 3D should look seamless when the viewer is properly positioned.

Thanks for the clarification.
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post #25 of 48 Old 04-15-2013, 08:19 PM
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This is exactly why I didn't jump on the 3D bandwagon several years ago. I knew this was going to happen but not this fast. Scott is there any word on when this might be available for home theater use? And if it could stop some people from getting sick from 3D?

You didn't buy a 3DTV several years ago, but this new technology is at least several years away. That's a long time to wait. I'm more than happy to "jump on the 3D bandwagon" for 5-7 years if that's how long it takes to get glasses-free 3D perfected.
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post #26 of 48 Old 04-15-2013, 08:39 PM
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You didn't buy a 3DTV several years ago, but this new technology is at least several years away. That's a long time to wait. I'm more than happy to "jump on the 3D bandwagon" for 5-7 years if that's how long it takes to get glasses-free 3D perfected.



I should have said that a little better. 3D doesn't do much for me, so when it becomes glasses free for home theatre I will consider getting into it. Going to a theatre to see it once in awhile is just fine with me. To each his own.
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post #27 of 48 Old 04-22-2013, 02:15 PM
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coming from company like dolby kind of makes it look like worth watching into
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post #28 of 48 Old 04-22-2013, 03:14 PM
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Sounds great, but what about content? There isn't much to see except for a few movies. I think 3-D was a passing fad that is over....
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post #29 of 48 Old 04-22-2013, 03:34 PM
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When they figure out how to make 3D work for us people with one working eye, I'll buy one. :-)
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post #30 of 48 Old 04-22-2013, 04:10 PM
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Sounds great, but what about content? There isn't much to see except for a few movies. I think 3-D was a passing fad that is over....

I make my own content. I have a panny 3d1 3d camera and it takes pretty good video looks good on my 72" samsung. My travel videos look much more interesting.
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