Panasonic Pulls Plug on Plasma Progress—ZT60 Marks End of Era - Page 3 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #61 of 76 Old 04-13-2013, 08:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
olyteddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,164
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by pred1973 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post

First off you don't have to be so defensive about Plasma. Makes you look like a Zealot. However I have to disagree about pricing. A BMW and a KIA are both cars. A BMW costs a lot more for the same functionality a KIA provides. People who prefer the perception of 'higher quality' will buy the BMW regardless that it costs twice as much. Neither company is hurting for profits. I believe it's the same with Audio gear and TVs too. If Plasma really is the high end product then it should be sustainable at a high end price.

Are you seriously comparing a BMW to a KIA ?!?! Have you ever driven a BMW ? I would seriously doubt it. Where to begin, well the beginning I suppose. German auto workers are paid much better than Korean auto workers. The engineering is VASTLY superior, the materials are much better (real leather, real wood veneers, soft-touch plastics, real metal inserts just off the top of my head). The performance is night and day, not just acceleration and top speed but lateral g's in cornering, braking distance. Of course there is some overpayment for the prestige, its not a straight value for value proposition but in 8 years time, that KIA will be worth next to nothing, the BMW will retain a significantly greater share of its initial cost.

You have absolutely ZERO credibility with that argument. Your logic is entirely why crap-ass tv's sell in the numbers they do as opposed to the quality ones. If you can't wrap your head around the fact that uneducated consumers don't care about quality and go for whatever looks brightest on a showroom floor, or is pushed by the salesguy, or is cheaper then trying to explain those things to you will be incomprehensible. Videophiles almost unanimously prefer plasma, but I guess you know something 99% of them don't.
No, YOU are. My 'comparison' ends with either one gets you to the grocery store. To get into a BMW costs more. Most high end things do. If the consumer was simply chasing the lower price, as you postulate, why would anyone buy a BMW? Yet Plasma is definitely the less costly choice and no one is buying them. I believe that if they marketed Plasma like they do BMW (premium price, snob appeal, etc.) then it might remain a viable option. However it appears that even at discount prices they can't sell enough of them for it to be a commercially viable product.
olyteddy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 76 Old 04-13-2013, 08:55 PM
Advanced Member
 
Newbie01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: North Wales, PA
Posts: 834
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

There it is! Just last week, I was talking to a Panasonic rep. and he asked me "Can the image retention myth finally be put to rest, because it's been eliminated." - that prompted me to ask "You are willing to say it is impossible on a modern plasma?" to which he replied "No, if somebody intentionally tried, it would still happen."

As you now know, anything that can occur intentionally, can also happen by accident. So yeah, it's still a problem. Just not nearly as much of a problem as it used to be.

6 hours of TV viewing with side bar's should not = perma burn in. Am I that much of an abnormality? Again it is MUCH less now after running slides but it still exists.
Newbie01 is offline  
post #63 of 76 Old 04-13-2013, 08:58 PM
els
Senior Member
 
els's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Pleasanton, CA, USA
Posts: 300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by macfan View Post

Just another example of the public willing to accept lower priced mediocrity over quality.

Sad But True!!!!mad.gif
els is offline  
post #64 of 76 Old 04-13-2013, 09:26 PM
 
vinnie97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nunya
Posts: 11,657
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

Thread should be entailed. "Fan boys unite!" The only thing wrong with LCD market is price per dollar. You have to pay a premium to get that amazing picture. To get a great looking LCD you must spend at least 3K. Only 1K for a great looking plasma. That being said. The ZT isn't one of those sets with amazing bang for buck.
Fanboys untie would be so much funnier. wink.gif Anyway, you said it basically. Both have flaws, so if you don't do much in the way of gaming, why pay 2 to 3 times more to experience the blooming or banding if it's going to be nagging at you during your entire tenure of ownership? Full-array is where LED has propelled the tech forward, and backlit lags behind and is the only tech still actively being made. That ain't fanboy speak, just the facts. Until OLED becomes affordable, display tech is officially in no-man's land. Also, it's a little early to say what kind of bang the ZT60 delivers for the buck.
vinnie97 is offline  
post #65 of 76 Old 04-13-2013, 09:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JukeBox360's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 6,653
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Fanboys untie would be so much funnier. wink.gif Anyway, you said it basically. Both have flaws, so if you don't do much in the way of gaming, why pay 2 to 3 times more to experience the blooming or banding if it's going to be nagging at you during your entire tenure of ownership? Full-array is where LED has propelled the tech forward, and backlit lags behind and is the only tech still actively being made. That ain't fanboy speak, just the facts. Until OLED becomes affordable, display tech is officially in no-man's land. Also, it's a little early to say what kind of bang the ZT60 delivers for the buck.

Fully agree. Makers just aren't making em like they should. But they are improving. Sharp has been doing Full array for a while now. Full array should be the standard. Not that edge lit BS. As for bang for buck. The pricing of the ZT isn't a great bang for buck regardless of it's picture. Sets like the ST and GT series are amazing bang for buck. Heck. Even a 65VT50 for 2K is a steal. But the ZT starting as high as it is doesn't make much sense to me. Then again. Most "flagship" products never do.
JukeBox360 is offline  
post #66 of 76 Old 04-13-2013, 10:28 PM
 
vinnie97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nunya
Posts: 11,657
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 1000
That's what bugs me. Sharp is on the rocks, and Sony's not much better (their foray into full-array looks to be coming to a halt as well). frown.gif That's why I feel this is not a good time to be a videophile (aside from the 2013 Panasonic lineup). Point taken on the relative value of a set like the ST60 versus the flagship model.
vinnie97 is offline  
post #67 of 76 Old 04-13-2013, 11:31 PM
Member
 
TV4Sooner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 96
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I just bought a 55ST60. If I get 5 years out of this TV, and assuming plasma does indeed die out, I figure by then the price of other technologies and their improvements will at least be equal to what I'm buying now, what I'm getting for the money. That's the hope anyway.
TV4Sooner is offline  
post #68 of 76 Old 04-14-2013, 05:15 AM
AVS Special Member
 
CHASLS2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Tampa FL area
Posts: 1,250
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by TV4Sooner View Post

I just bought a 55ST60. If I get 5 years out of this TV, and assuming plasma does indeed die out, I figure by then the price of other technologies and their improvements will at least be equal to what I'm buying now, what I'm getting for the money. That's the hope anyway.

It took many years for plasma prices to come down. Maybe in 7 years time a 55" OLED will cost under $4k.

Panny 60VT60 Acurus 200x3
Pioneer Elite 05FD &51FD
2 Oppo 83's Pioneer Elite DV 59AVI
Paradigm SIg2 v3's & 490cc
Pioneer Elite SC61 SVS SB12NSD
2 S-VHS VCR's
CHASLS2 is offline  
post #69 of 76 Old 04-14-2013, 05:20 AM
Newbie
 
johnscare84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
http://www.engadget.com/2013/04/12/panasonic-buries-rumors-of-plasma-tv-death/


looks like it was all rumors, so maybe we might get a 4k plasma after all...
johnscare84 is offline  
post #70 of 76 Old 04-14-2013, 06:26 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Writer @ AVS
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 5,111
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 563 Post(s)
Liked: 1621
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnscare84 View Post

http://www.engadget.com/2013/04/12/panasonic-buries-rumors-of-plasma-tv-death/


looks like it was all rumors, so maybe we might get a 4k plasma after all...

I am afraid you are not getting a 4K plasma - ever. Even the article you linked to states quite plainly, the technology used in the ZT60 is going to be the final panel it develops, and it is definitely limited to 1080p.

 

The only thing that could save plasma at this point is an uptick in sales. Unfortunately for Panasonic, even if the market for plasma HDTV stabilizes, Samsung also makes HDTVs based on the technology. Panasonic is a huge, diversified company. They are not going to keep losing money in a product category that they simply cannot compete with. However, I'm sure the VP of merchandising would prefer that the "spin" on this in as positive as possible. 


Find out more about Mark Henninger at www.imagicdigital.com
imagic is online now  
post #71 of 76 Old 04-14-2013, 06:36 AM
AVS Special Member
 
8mile13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,679
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
Liked: 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnscare84 
http://www.engadget.com/2013/04/12/panasonic-buries-rumors-of-plasma-tv-death/

looks like it was all rumors,
the guy in your link - Hauser - said a month ago pretty much the same as what you can read in post one of this thread wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnscare84 
so maybe we might get a 4k plasma after all...
There is a 2010 $500.000 152'' Panasonic 4K Plasma, that's it .
8mile13 is offline  
post #72 of 76 Old 04-14-2013, 11:26 AM
AVS Special Member
 
lgans316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Barking, Essex, London
Posts: 6,805
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Very sad news. Are there any OLED Tvs that can beat plasma w.r to viewing angles? Never seen one till date.

Blu-ray : 340
lgans316 is offline  
post #73 of 76 Old 04-14-2013, 11:35 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Writer @ AVS
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 5,111
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 563 Post(s)
Liked: 1621
Quote:
Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post

Very sad news. Are there any OLED Tvs that can beat plasma w.r to viewing angles? Never seen one till date.

OLED has no restriction on viewing angle since it is a direct-radiating technology. 2013 IPS LED panels from Panasonic exhibited excellent off-axis image quality, remaining consistent in terms of brightness, contrast and saturation.


Find out more about Mark Henninger at www.imagicdigital.com
imagic is online now  
post #74 of 76 Old 04-14-2013, 12:21 PM
Senior Member
 
chadsdsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHASLS2 View Post

It took many years for plasma prices to come down. Maybe in 7 years time a 55" OLED will cost under $4k.

While it is true that it took many years for plasma to come down, it will not be the case in this market. In a day and age when flat panel tvs are the norm (it used to be the latest and greatest luxury when plasma came out) and they can be had at wal mart for under $1000, manufacturers know better than to think they will be able to successfully market $4k + TV's to anyone other than the very wealthy and/or some of the people on these forums. Every one made for last couple of years has failed. They barely make any more full array local dimming sets because they didn't sell at the price they were charging. Sharp elite...gone, sony xbr 950.... gone after this year (I think) Pioneer Kuro...long gone : (. I think the big draw of oled to manufacturers is that (and keep in mind I am no expert so correct me if I am wrong) it has the possibility of being cheap to manufacture. Once the initial R & D is ironed out, its my understanding it could be cheaper to build than lcd/plasma. After all, they don't need to come up with clever (and expensive) ways to increase picture quality such as local dimming with full array (which is a band aid fix for a flawed technology imho), oled already has great contrast/pq characteristics by default. Then, they can charge a modest premium and actually make money on TV's, something they haven't done in years. I hope they can make it happen. In 7 years, oled tvs will be well under $4k, or they won't exist at all due to not getting past the manufacturing/R &D obstacles. Like I said, I don't know much about all this tech outside of what I read, but I do know that common sense tells me that no tv will sell in significant enough numbers to be profitable if it is not in the price ballpark of the other products out there.
chadsdsmith is offline  
post #75 of 76 Old 04-14-2013, 01:20 PM
Member
 
jjkusaf1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Prattville, Al
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbie01 View Post

Sorry...I own the 65VT50 and image retention is frequent and burn-in easy. As I have learned to my detriment. My kid with two days of playing the tv with side bars on ..for about 3 hours a day..managed permanent burn-in. I lessened it after running slides for a few hundred hours but it is still there.

OK? I've owned a Pro-111FD for 4 years and have never suffered from image retention.
jjkusaf1 is offline  
post #76 of 76 Old 04-14-2013, 04:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JimWilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Somewhere in New Joisey
Posts: 4,395
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 313
If it turns out that Panasonic does let plasma die like that it would indeed be sad. The picture quality is certainly better than LCD (largely crap display). Maybe some day that will catch up to plasma, but it doesn't seem that will be anytime soon. It's kinda like the McDonald's of display technologies; they're everywhere, and cheap, but that doesn't mean it's worth much of anything.

For 6 years I've owned stock in probably the largest holder of patents in the OLED space, Universal Display, so I'm definitely a believer. Unfortunately the technology hasn't matured fast enough, and the industry adoption rate has been far too slow, both of which have combined to render it nothing more then a bit player. Hopefully that will change before Panasonic does finally discontinue plasma, otherwise we may be saddled with 2nd place displays.

If you take yourself too seriously expect me to do the exact opposite
JimWilson is offline  
Reply Latest Industry News

Tags
Panasonic , Panasonic Viera Tc P65zt60 65 Inch Plasma Hdtv
Gear in this thread

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off