BDA to Determine if 4K Blu-ray is Feasible - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 109 Old 05-11-2013, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by img eL View Post

What's good for the goose

... is good for the gander (?)

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post #92 of 109 Old 05-14-2013, 02:56 PM
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I agree, they didn't mention anything about that at the reveal but they did say the PS4 would support 4k playback (not games) through a service provided by Sony.

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post #93 of 109 Old 05-20-2013, 11:25 PM
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I've seen a demo of the sony 4k projector at 100", and although it was only upscaled 1080p, it looked very good, since you could hardly spot pixels, even from a feet away.
With 4K content it would be even better (at that size 8K would be pretty much overkill).
Unfortunately I haven't seen at larger screens, but my guess is that it will be very fine at normal sitting distances even up to 150" or more.
So it should pretty much cover all bases.
So If you are to get your movie-collection at 4K, you should be fine, even when 8K arrives. It certainly should be enough pixels as a source for your future displays to upscale up to 8K.
So even if 4K BluRay would be the last physical format, it could live on for a long time.
Streaming at the same quality level is a bit off for most internet subscribers. And with downloads directly from distributors, you won't see the same kind of price-drops as you do on movies on physical discs.

For those thinking that 4K is already overkill. Wait till you see 55" and bigger displays with higher resolution, you will change your mind. Well not for those sitting far from the display, but they will never get a cinema feel at home, as it covers so little of your viewfield. (and there are people stating that even on those sizes at a distance, 4K give a feel of looking thru a window, rather than looking on a display, I guess it has to do with contours and shadows that Full HD does not have enough resolution to paint up, but 4K do, even if Full HD might very well be higher resolution than your retina resolution at that viewing distance).
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post #94 of 109 Old 05-21-2013, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Whereas I agree that 480i upscaled to 1080p looks vastly inferior to native 1080p, upscaled VERY GOOD 1080p to 4K is not that much different than native 4K.
If you're in the 404/Elgin Mills area, come and visit UpdateTv and Stereo and look at the upscaling quality yourself. It's amazing. eek.gif

It depens on the size of the monitor, the quality of the panel, and other image manipulation carried out in the signal chain.
When most concluded that upscaled DVDs were fine enough, TVs sold pretty much maxed out at 42". And panel technology wasnt where it is today.
When looking at upscaled 1080p on a 4K monitor, you would have to look at larger sizez. And here we have some aspects to take in to account. At 100" 4K is still enough so you wont see pixels even when you are really close. So when 1080p is upscaled, you still get that advantage. But contours wont be as sharp, and there is less detail. When it comes to less details, that depends on what the material is displayed, with a lot of movement, you wont be able to notice the difference in details (unless the upscaler produces motion artifacts), but in more static images in backgrounds of foreground, your eyes can concieve more details than 1080p gives. But it clearly depens on the size of your display (even if its said that even on smaller displays 4K looks more natural, and I guess that has a lot to do with contours, and sharpness, that has nothing to do with your eves "resolution" at the viewing distance).

8K seems a bit like overkill today, but it has other advantages.
With 8K, you can have a video recorder with native 8K resolution, and take stills with good resolution (or grab frames from video, if its uncompressed).
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post #95 of 109 Old 05-21-2013, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post

What's more interesting to me is future movies looking as good as possible on future systems. Blu-ray is adequate to exploit the visual detail in the majority of movies made up until this point, but with the proliferation of 4K digital systems and Christopher Nolan's embrace of IMAX film for his blockbusters, it means that the future will require higher definition media.

Even older movies are remastered to either 4K or 8K resolution as BluRays does not have resolution enough to be a master copies.
So I think there is much details yet to be found in lots of films.... but when it comes to CGI, well, then the 4K or 8K remaster might end up looking really bad.
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post #96 of 109 Old 06-08-2013, 06:07 PM
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I don't think too many people care about quality. Flatscreens are for form factor not pq. Ultra HD discs are going to have the market share of laser discs at best, and so many movies are cgi that real film making is taking a back seat ----as is suspension of disbelief.
There is an unreality to so many movies that I am losing Interest in the hobby.
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post #97 of 109 Old 06-08-2013, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post

What I think is that it sounds like we are long ways off from having a decision on a 4k blu ray format. I was hoping something was around the corner but I understand that H.265 and HDMI 2.0 aren't even here yet either. mad.gif

Displayport would work right now, but there's no DRM baked into it, which means the studios won't go for it.
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post #98 of 109 Old 06-08-2013, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by b4z View Post

I don't think too many people care about quality. Flatscreens are for form factor not pq. Ultra HD discs are going to have the market share of laser discs at best, and so many movies are cgi that real film making is taking a back seat ----as is suspension of disbelief.
There is an unreality to so man movies that I am losing Interest in the hobby.

Early adopters care about quality, which is the market to which these 4K/UHD/2160p products will be aimed for the next 12-18 months. I'd say about 100% of early adopters care about quality. smile.gif

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post #99 of 109 Old 06-08-2013, 07:45 PM
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I care about quality and I'm sure everyone that's on AVS and all the other forums do also. BD's look better than ever and I just bought 10 of them today biggrin.gif
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post #100 of 109 Old 06-08-2013, 07:54 PM
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Of course they do. I paid $900 for my sony CD player in 1983. But it wasn't the revelation I was led to expect because my turntable setup was pretty damn good and cd mastering was in its infancy. I'm feeling a little déjà vu right now. But I am not sure there is enough there there with ultra HD right now. Especially with sony's first offerings. Edge lit for one. Shouldn't Gen 1 be cutting edge on just about everything and have a very high price point?
Maybe Sony is not 100 percent on it? Although it is the next logical step, as was DVD to blu ray.
Streaming is what people care about and physical media is pretty much. Dead end.
When I was in BB the other day the CD section was down to 1 aisle. And some blu rays were $39.99 I am not paying even $29.99 for a movie. the studios need to get over that and price EVERYTHING except multi disc sets at $19.99 and below. CDs got killed because of greed. They should have been no higher than $9.99 but many were asking $18.99. It is and was ridiculous.
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post #101 of 109 Old 06-08-2013, 08:24 PM
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I kinda want 4K to go back to LD exclusivity. This way although I have to pay a lot for a movie, I can actually go straight to the movie, no copy protection, and no dumbed-down version of anything. I love the LaserDisc days, even with all the disc flipping and all.

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post #102 of 109 Old 06-09-2013, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by b4z View Post

Of course they do. I paid $900 for my sony CD player in 1983. But it wasn't the revelation I was led to expect because my turntable setup was pretty damn good and cd mastering was in its infancy. I'm feeling a little déjà vu right now. But I am not sure there is enough there there with ultra HD right now. Especially with sony's first offerings. Edge lit for one. Shouldn't Gen 1 be cutting edge on just about everything and have a very high price point?
Maybe Sony is not 100 percent on it? Although it is the next logical step, as was DVD to blu ray.
Streaming is what people care about and physical media is pretty much. Dead end.
When I was in BB the other day the CD section was down to 1 aisle. And some blu rays were $39.99 I am not paying even $29.99 for a movie. the studios need to get over that and price EVERYTHING except multi disc sets at $19.99 and below. CDs got killed because of greed. They should have been no higher than $9.99 but many were asking $18.99. It is and was ridiculous.
Agreed. What we need for HD content (and for hi-res music) are services that allow us to download bit-for-bit Blu-ray quality files if we wish, OR a suitable HD stream if we just want to rent.

Anything less is just a waste of time, money and resources.

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post #103 of 109 Old 08-08-2013, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by dsteak View Post

It seems to me that 4K is really geared towards theaters where screen sizes are 100"+. Also, from everything I've read the up-conversion from blu ray to 4K looks great.

I'm considering a 4K player for my new theater room, but my main concern is will the hardware become obsolete once the media and player are released? Will they handle a new HDMI release? Will I have to take the projector down and send it off for upgrading when I've already spent a premium for the player? These are my burning questions that noone seems to know the answer to.

I have heard of TVs with an upgrade option. I don't believe it. I recommend you hold off until early 2014 at least, so you don't end up regretting your purchase. Too many unanswered questions- HDMI 2.0 being only one.

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post #104 of 109 Old 08-14-2013, 04:15 PM
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Displayport would work right now, but there's no DRM baked into it, which means the studios won't go for it.
Really?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Displayport#Digital_Restrictions_Management_.28DRM.29
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post #105 of 109 Old 08-15-2013, 02:42 PM
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I understand that HDMI 2.0 in its final form is expected to exceed somewhat DisplayPort specs. We will see. I'm just disappointed that this has been taken so long, that H.265 has taken so long, and that the BD Consortium is dragging its feet on the next set of BD specs to support UHD. What, realistically we're looking at the end of 2014?

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post #106 of 109 Old 08-15-2013, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by navychop View Post

I understand that HDMI 2.0 in its final form is expected to exceed somewhat DisplayPort specs. We will see. I'm just disappointed that this has been taken so long, that H.265 has taken so long, and that the BD Consortium is dragging its feet on the next set of BD specs to support UHD. What, realistically we're looking at the end of 2014?



Have to agree and the points you made are the reasons I'll take my time making any further purchases. Especially with the prices of UHD panels and none of them are HDMI 2.0, it just doesn't make sense to spend the kind of money they want. I think it's smarter to wait a year or two.
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post #107 of 109 Old 08-15-2013, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by navychop View Post

I understand that HDMI 2.0 in its final form is expected to exceed somewhat DisplayPort specs. We will see. I'm just disappointed that this has been taken so long, that H.265 has taken so long, and that the BD Consortium is dragging its feet on the next set of BD specs to support UHD. What, realistically we're looking at the end of 2014?

Why-the patent holders for BD/Codecs/HDMI/etc want to suck every penny they can out of consumers using their existing patents, before introducinig a new set of patents used for UHD/H.265......
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post #108 of 109 Old 08-19-2013, 12:07 PM
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Why-the patent holders for BD/Codecs/HDMI/etc want to suck every penny they can out of consumers using their existing patents, before introducinig a new set of patents used for UHD/H.265......

You, Sir, are a SUSPICIOUS person!

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post #109 of 109 Old 08-20-2013, 02:53 PM
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I hope hurry up bring on the 4k disc's,for all the early adopter's.
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