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post #1 of 138 Old 06-11-2013, 04:16 PM - Thread Starter
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After years of speculation and anticipation within the gaming community, Sony and Microsoft have finally taken the wraps off of their next-generation platforms. Although both platforms were introduced at press events prior to last night, the final pieces of the puzzle were revealed at the Electronic Entertainment Expo (E3). While their initial approaches could not have been more dissimilar, both platforms are vying to be the centerpiece of your living room or home theater.

Microsoft Xbox One



Microsoft revealed the Xbox One in May with a clear message—the Xbox One is the "one" device to rule all your entertainment needs. Featuring a Blu-ray drive and an HDMI input for your cable box, the company left no stone unturned. The next-generation Kinect sensor brought the science fiction of Minority Report into reality, with voice and gesture controls aimed at making the humble remote control obsolete. Heavy emphasis was placed on television and sports, almost to the complete exclusion of gaming.

In the weeks that followed, a dark cloud was cast over the Xbox One, as Microsoft revealed its intention to radically change the way we purchase, share, and own games. Equal parts draconian restrictions and innovative new ways to share games, these new policies were met with a generally negative reception. Altogether, this left many in the gaming community exasperated, but Microsoft made good on its promise to show games at E3—and show games they did, to the near total exclusion of everything else. A strong lineup of unique and exclusive titles was revealed, showcasing the power of the hardware. The Xbox One will unquestionably remain a strong contender in the gaming space for years to come. Home-theater enthusiasts should keep a close eye on its potential to seamlessly integrate all your devices into its stunning and accessible user interface.


Sony Playstation 4



When Sony initially unveiled the Playstation 4 in February, the clarity of vision seemed equally strong—the Playstation 4 is a console for gamers, by gamers. This message was unwavering, beginning with an in-depth look at the powerful hardware under the hood. The internals of the PS4 surpassed the expectations of even the wildest rumors, and unequivocally trumped the Xbox One in raw gaming power. Much emphasis was placed on the removal of barriers for both gamers and game developers. Although a strong lineup of visually stunning new games were shown, the device itself was conspicuously absent. Last night, the final design was revealed.

At E3, Sony continued to beat the drum for a gaming-centric platform. Even though entertainment and media functions received their fair share of airtime, even these functions were cast in the light of being specifically tailored toward gamers. Independent developers were prominently showcased, but the showpiece games were not forgotten. Lingering questions about game ownership and required connectivity were addressed in no uncertain terms—Sony stands firmly behind the familiar model of ownership for disc-based games, with no resale/trade restrictions or online check-in required. Although not the all-encompassing device that the Xbox One aims to be, Sony needs no introduction to home-theater enthusiasts. The PS4 is likely to remain an industry leading Blu-ray player and streaming device, without the need to swallow your entire A/V rack whole.


The Games

Those familiar with E3 are accustomed to being assaulted with pre-rendered idealizations of the games, with the actual games falling far short of the target. For the first time, it was exceptionally difficult to tell the real game footage from the pre-rendered—the next-generation platforms represent a monumental leap forward, bringing games one step closer to reality.

Ryse brought the horror of the Normandy invasion to ancient Rome, and the stunning photorealism of Battlefield 4 may come dangerously close to triggering flashbacks in veterans. Old favorites such as Killer Instinct made their return, and the long-awaited TitanFall may represent the Next Big Thing in multiplayer gaming. One could be forgiven for mistaking screenshots of racers like Forza Motorsport 5 and Driveclub for professional photos. Quantum Break and The Dark Sorcerer demonstration featured incredibly realistic facial animation, where the nuances of emotional expression open up new avenues for dramatic storytelling. The wait has been agonizing, but the future of gaming is finally here.

The Playstation 4 will be available this holiday season for $399. The Xbox One will be available in November for $499.
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post #2 of 138 Old 06-12-2013, 10:41 AM
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I already sold my PS3 on eBay; now that the two platforms are revealed, I'm confident I will be replacing it with the PS4.

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post #3 of 138 Old 06-12-2013, 11:49 AM
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im still enjoying my PS1. i dont know they have PS4 now. wow.

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post #4 of 138 Old 06-12-2013, 12:10 PM
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Sony absolutely stole the show with the PS4. Offline gaming, simple sharing, and a lower price tag with significantly better hardware are at the top of the list of features that the PS4 brings to this generation of the console wars.
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post #5 of 138 Old 06-12-2013, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidK442 View Post

$399 for the PS4. Wow! The power of mass marketing and a willingness by Sony to take a loss on hardware for the sake of software sales puts amazing technology into the hands of us common folk.
$2 a day into the mad money jar will put one under my tree by Christmas. smile.gif

I don't know that X-box will live to regret its restrictive game sharing format.

Lol, hardly amazing technology. You can build an equivalent PC for the same price right now.

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post #6 of 138 Old 06-12-2013, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by UrbanSmooth View Post

Sony absolutely stole the show with the PS4. Offline gaming, simple sharing, and a lower price tag with significantly better hardware are at the top of the list of features that the PS4 brings to this generation of the console wars.

In all my years of following this stuff, I've never seen such a polarized reception. The Xbox One showed a lot of great games, and I'm sure it will be a great platform in the end. I'm not ready to count them out just yet. But there's no question that Sony is winning the hearts and minds of gamers.

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post #7 of 138 Old 06-12-2013, 12:29 PM
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I'm definitely getting the PS4. I'm also definitely getting the Xbox One. Ultraaa Comboooooo!

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post #8 of 138 Old 06-12-2013, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Exist_To_Resist View Post

Lol, hardly amazing technology. You can build an equivalent PC for the same price right now.

tried lining up my PC build project for an 8 core cpu with 8 gb memory at newegg and tigerdirect.

nope, you can't build it for only $399. i ended up $700 more or less. but a PC can do a lot than a gaming console does.

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post #9 of 138 Old 06-12-2013, 12:41 PM
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Here is a true hardware comparison.

They are basically the same.

The PS4 does win out in GPU but that's about it

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6972/xbox-one-hardware-compared-to-playstation-4
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post #10 of 138 Old 06-12-2013, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Exist_To_Resist View Post

Lol, hardly amazing technology. You can build an equivalent PC for the same price right now.
But can a PC play the current PC games 8 years down the road without hardware upgrades?
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post #11 of 138 Old 06-12-2013, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew911tt View Post

Here is a true hardware comparison.

They are basically the same.

The PS4 does win out in GPU but that's about it

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6972/xbox-one-hardware-compared-to-playstation-4




Don't forget GGDR3 vs GGDR5. Big difference in video rendering.
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post #12 of 138 Old 06-12-2013, 12:54 PM
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My understanding is its the same CPU/GPU (eight core processor, modified Radeon 7870 for GPU, PS4 18 compute units versus 12CU's on Xbox 1.). People remember, Xbox one gets you a 1080p Kinect sensor, Sony doesn't include its Eye, has to be bought seperate. Graphically you are gonna be hard pressed to see a difference period. Nvidia when it was chosen for the consoles past, the console GPU was actually out a year earlier than its pc counter part. Thats not the case here. To me, they are already behind. I will not be buying either. I wish people would let them sit on the shelf like the Wii U and its older hardware. You are buying basically "gimmicky" hardware ie Kinect/Eye and updated software. Consoles use to push graphics. How many ppl actually used Kinect? I think ours lasted as long as the Wii, about 2 months. I think consumers are settling more and more into excepting garbage as good enough and we are getting low quality products from TV's to now Consoles. THERE IS NOTHING NEW IN THESE CONSOLES PERIOD. Xbox 360 and PS3 will just have to last and will in this house till they show me something that screams, TAKE MY MONEY! Till then, no consoles in this house. Gaming PC's rule here. (Ya more expensive, but there will at least be advancements.)
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post #13 of 138 Old 06-12-2013, 12:59 PM
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Straight from a strictly PC developer turned console developer, who is less than impressed by either console. Mark Rein from Epic (Gears of War Console games/ Unreal Tournament PC), not impressed....


http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/mark-rein-calls-********-on-ea-s-pc-vs-next-gen-consoles-claim/0116286

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post #14 of 138 Old 06-12-2013, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by DRaven72 View Post

My understanding is its the same CPU/GPU (eight core processor, modified Radeon 7870 for GPU, PS4 18 compute units versus 12CU's on Xbox 1.). People remember, Xbox one gets you a 1080p Kinect sensor, Sony doesn't include its Eye, has to be bought seperate. Graphically you are gonna be hard pressed to see a difference period. Nvidia when it was chosen for the consoles past, the console GPU was actually out a year earlier than its pc counter part. Thats not the case here. To me, they are already behind. I will not be buying either. I wish people would let them sit on the shelf like the Wii U and its older hardware. You are buying basically "gimmicky" hardware ie Kinect/Eye and updated software. Consoles use to push graphics. How many ppl actually used Kinect? I think ours lasted as long as the Wii, about 2 months. I think consumers are settling more and more into excepting garbage as good enough and we are getting low quality products from TV's to now Consoles. THERE IS NOTHING NEW IN THESE CONSOLES PERIOD. Xbox 360 and PS3 will just have to last and will in this house till they show me something that screams, TAKE MY MONEY! Till then, no consoles in this house. Gaming PC's rule here. (Ya more expensive, but there will at least be advancements.)

No one wants the Kinect, so that is actually a plus for Sony, it was smart of them not to force the Eye on people. Graphically, the PS4 is 50% more powerful than the XB1. There will be a massive difference if the hardware is properly utilized by the developers. PC gaming is fine, but you miss out on some of the best games ever created - so if you are a gamer, it is kind of a no-brainer that you need a console. Of course PC's have more power, but to a true gamer that is a marginal factor.
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post #15 of 138 Old 06-12-2013, 01:00 PM
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post #16 of 138 Old 06-12-2013, 01:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

Don't forget GGDR3 vs GGDR5. Big difference in video rendering.

Yeah, the difference is pretty significant. Much more bandwidth, 50% more shader/compute capacity, 100% more ROPs. All that extra compute capacity is going to make a huge difference once GPGPU code takes off. And unlike last generation, the architectures are so similar that its going to be very simple for developers to take advantage of all that extra capacity.

If your main concern is image quality/performance, and you're not ready to wade into the PC space, there's really no argument to be made for the X1....the PS4 has it beat, hands down.
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post #17 of 138 Old 06-12-2013, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by dochollerin View Post

No one wants the Kinect, so that is actually a plus for Sony, it was smart of them not to force the Eye on people. Graphically, the PS4 is 50% more powerful than the XB1. There will be a massive difference if the hardware is properly utilized by the developers. PC gaming is fine, but you miss out on some of the best games ever created - so if you are a gamer, it is kind of a no-brainer that you need a console. Of course PC's have more power, but to a true gamer that is a marginal factor.
\

So you saying were not true gamers if were not playing games we are missing on PC?? Buddy, I can't play a shooter with a freakin controller, its un-natural. And fighting games from Street Fighter to Mortal Kombat are on the PC. Racing games?? Dirt series 1-3 rockin here on my pc. Need adventure??? TombRaider rocked out better graphically on my PC than consoles. Far Cry 3 more of the same. BF3 oh snap, all 64 player maps here bro! Devil May Cry, came here too with Resident Evil Series. Skyrim, rockin! God don't use Metal Gear as a point. I played the originals. They have beat that old man to death 100 years ago.

No offense man, but really, WE PC gamers are not missing a thing at all. What>? Uncharted?wink.gif

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post #18 of 138 Old 06-12-2013, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Exist_To_Resist View Post

It`s a 7670 or rather a re-branded 6670, as both are one and the same.
Quote:
The PS4, in comparison, has an 8-core Jaguar AMD CPU, with a GPU that’s around the same level as the Radeon 7870

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/156273-xbox-720-vs-ps4-vs-pc-how-the-hardware-specs-compare

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post #19 of 138 Old 06-12-2013, 01:20 PM
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Yeah I found that, hence the delete.
However if you Google 7870 compute units you will see that the 7870 has 20 compute units not 18.
So really not quite a 7870, is it. Halfway between the 7870 and the 7850.

http://www.slashgear.com/amd-radeon-hd-7870-and-7850-specs-leaked-22214761/
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/amd_radeon_hd_7850_and_7870_review,1.html

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post #20 of 138 Old 06-12-2013, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Sure, PCs and brute force will always win. But a lot of people simply aren't interested in gaming on a PC, you give up quite a bit of the "it just works" simplicity. Still though, the new generation of consoles are just as significant to PC gamers. They set the agenda for the industry, PC games have been held back by consoles for far too long now. Once the next gen exclusive titles start filtering down to PC, that GTX Titan might finally get a proper workout.

Either way, every platform (PC included), have their own incredible exclusives.....I wouldn't want to miss out on any of them.
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post #21 of 138 Old 06-12-2013, 01:29 PM
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Both seem to be neck and neck. The PS4 has the power under the hood compared to the Xbox One but with the cloud computing that the X1 is focusing on so much I wonder if they plant to make the console more powerful overtime by letting the cloud servers generate more of the game than what the console will be doing? This could create an interesting possibility that could allot the performance of the X1 to increase over time as internet speeds and number of servers increases.

However, the restrictions on used games is pretty big currently. However, I am suprised that many of these media outlets are not mentioning that even on the current PS3 there is some of that going on. I dont game on my PS3 much anymore but the last game I played online(Uncharted 3) required an online pass key. If you bought the game used you would have to buy an additional online pass from Naughty Dog to play the game online.

Seeing as how Microsoft is saying that they are leaving it up to the publishers, I dont know if this really means that their restrictions are much greater than what is already going on.

However, having to have your console "check in" every 24 hours is stupid.

I am not worried about the Kinect "always watching" like so many are concerned about. Personally I think the console "watching" is of little significance. I think there are much bigger issues with privacy that is occuring right now such as being able to unlock front doors with your cell phone....any hacker would be able to let themselves into your house...so I'm not going to complain about something waiting for me to say "Xbox On"

The main reason I will be looking at getting a new console is for HTPC, Bluray, Other Media Sources, and some Casual gaming. When it comes to my heavy games I will stay on my PC for now. However, I will say that by the videos I have seen, the games coming to X1 look more of my style than those to the PS4 at this point in time.

Project Spark looks like a next gen LittleBigPlanet to me and LittleBigPlanet probably saw more play time than any other game I have for the PS3 as I tend to only play consoles with friends and family.

However, I am going to hold my judgement till the final release and maybe a few months after. My PS3 is dying currently and will need to be replaced. I just hope it can last long enough until I can make a judgement.

I will also say though, that based on some of these polls I have seen, Xbox better change their policies specifically on the used game content, otherwise it looks like a flop of a console.

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post #22 of 138 Old 06-12-2013, 01:30 PM
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\

So you saying were not true gamers if were not playing games we are missing on PC?? Buddy, I can't play a shooter with a freakin controller, its un-natural. And fighting games from Street Fighter to Mortal Kombat are on the PC. Racing games?? Dirt series 1-3 rockin here on my pc. Need adventure??? TombRaider rocked out better graphically on my PC than consoles. Far Cry 3 more of the same. BF3 oh snap, all 64 player maps here bro! Devil May Cry, came here too with Resident Evil Series. Skyrim, rockin! God don't use Metal Gear as a point. I played the originals. They have beat that old man to death 100 years ago.

No offense man, but really, WE PC gamers are not missing a thing at all. What>? Uncharted?wink.gif

Tomb Raider was awesome on my PC connected to my HT, same with SKYRIM.
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post #23 of 138 Old 06-12-2013, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Both seem to be neck and neck. The PS4 has the power under the hood compared to the Xbox One but with the cloud computing that the X1 is focusing on so much I wonder if they plant to make the console more powerful overtime by letting the cloud servers generate more of the game than what the console will be doing? This could create an interesting possibility that could allot the performance of the X1 to increase over time as internet speeds and number of servers increases.

This is something I'm watching pretty closely. It's a neat idea, but it's applications to rendering are limited. It certainly isn't going to be as simple as the cloud filling in the gap between the two APUs. I can see a lot of potential in the idea, and plenty of examples of how they can use it, but no one has stepped up to demonstrate it. Even then, considering it's all server-side...there's nothing preventing Sony or any PC devs from doing the same.

If anything is going to bring the two consoles back in line with each other, it would be a second generation model of the X1, with a more powerful APU under the hood. It'd be unprecedented in the console space, but I'm struggling to find any other reason that they would go to such great lengths to virtualize the OS. They'd never mention such a thing now, as that would completely undermine the sales of the first gen X1...but I have a very strong feeling its coming in a few years.

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post #24 of 138 Old 06-12-2013, 01:51 PM
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This is something I'm watching pretty closely. It's a neat idea, but it's applications to rendering are limited. It certainly isn't going to be as simple as the cloud filling in the gap between the two APUs. I can see a lot of potential in the idea, and plenty of examples of how they can use it, but no one has stepped up to demonstrate it. Even then, considering it's all server-side...there's nothing preventing Sony or any PC devs from doing the same.

If anything is going to bring the two consoles back in line with each other, it would be a second generation model of the X1, with a more powerful APU under the hood. It'd be unprecedented in the console space, but I'm struggling to find any other reason that they would go to such great lengths to virtualize the OS. They'd never mention such a thing now, as that would completely undermine the sales of the first gen X1...but I have a very strong feeling its coming in a few years.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/nvidia-grid.html

Well from what it looks like, Nvidia is probably already working on something similar.

It's hard to tell at this point. However, I agree with you that most of what the X1 will do will bring it more in line with the performance of the PS4 than anything else. I do also like the idea though of the "drivatar" in Forza 5 as that can make the games alot more interesting even in offline mode. However, I can also see this creating some long load times.

We will have to wait and see. I really look forward to the next gen games that will push PC GPUs harder more than anything. I am just from the perspective of get a bluray player or get something that is alot more flexible....I tend to go with the flexible side of things.

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post #25 of 138 Old 06-12-2013, 01:57 PM
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\

So you saying were not true gamers if were not playing games we are missing on PC?? Buddy, I can't play a shooter with a freakin controller, its un-natural. And fighting games from Street Fighter to Mortal Kombat are on the PC. Racing games?? Dirt series 1-3 rockin here on my pc. Need adventure??? TombRaider rocked out better graphically on my PC than consoles. Far Cry 3 more of the same. BF3 oh snap, all 64 player maps here bro! Devil May Cry, came here too with Resident Evil Series. Skyrim, rockin! God don't use Metal Gear as a point. I played the originals. They have beat that old man to death 100 years ago.

No offense man, but really, WE PC gamers are not missing a thing at all. What>? Uncharted?wink.gif

Red Dead Redemption, Uncharted, The Last of Us, Metal Gear Solid, God of War, Halo, Killzone, and those are just off the top of my head. Some of the most critically acclaimed games of this generation have been exclusive to consoles - and that's not even mentioning Nintendo. If you are a FPS nut, I agree, PC FTW; however, there are simply too many AAA titles exclusive to consoles to dismiss.
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post #26 of 138 Old 06-12-2013, 02:02 PM
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so will i have to turn on my xbox to watch tv? hope they build it quieter than the 360!
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post #27 of 138 Old 06-12-2013, 02:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kimeran View Post

http://www.nvidia.com/object/nvidia-grid.html

Well from what it looks like, Nvidia is probably already working on something similar.

It's hard to tell at this point. However, I agree with you that most of what the X1 will do will bring it more in line with the performance of the PS4 than anything else. I do also like the idea though of the "drivatar" in Forza 5 as that can make the games alot more interesting even in offline mode. However, I can also see this creating some long load times.

We will have to wait and see. I really look forward to the next gen games that will push PC GPUs harder more than anything. I am just from the perspective of get a bluray player or get something that is alot more flexible....I tend to go with the flexible side of things.

Nvidia's grid looks more like a technology akin to Sony's Gaikai, to remotely stream full games. MS is claiming that significant portions of the game code itself will run concurrently in the cloud, for stuff like lighting, physics, AI etc. Its far more ambitious, but its also completely unproven. At best, it fundamentally alters the way games will be developed....at worst, I think it's merely an idea that's ahead of its time.

I forget who coined the phrase...but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence....and so far, it's MIA. I certainly wouldn't base any purchasing decisions on something so hypothetical.

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post #28 of 138 Old 06-12-2013, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by dochollerin View Post

Red Dead Redemption, Uncharted, The Last of Us, Metal Gear Solid, God of War, Halo, Killzone, and those are just off the top of my head. Some of the most critically acclaimed games of this generation have been exclusive to consoles - and that's not even mentioning Nintendo. If you are a FPS nut, I agree, PC FTW; however, there are simply too many AAA titles exclusive to consoles to dismiss.


I agree that many exclusives on consoles were and still are amazing games. The same can be said for PC. The PC also has alot of other styles of games that you simply cannot play on a console such as RTS games, I have been hooked on the Company Of Heroes 2 Beta since it went Open last week. I also really enjoy other AAA titles on my system.

Exclusives dont make one form of gaming superior to another, it all boils down to preference. I simply prefer PC because I like gaming on a keyboard more and I also build my own computers and enjoy pushing them to their limits when it comes to speed.

I will also note though that the rumble you get in a console controller is something that is small that I truely bring you more into the game.

Trying to enjoy the simple things in life.

 

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post #29 of 138 Old 06-12-2013, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by speavler View Post

so will i have to turn on my xbox to watch tv? hope they build it quieter than the 360!

Both platforms should be near silent and draw very little power when not running a game at least, the APU won't need to do much of anything, and can run in a really low power state. At full blast during gaming....the ginormous fan they put in the X1 looks like it will be pretty quiet, although the much smaller PS4....we'll see.

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post #30 of 138 Old 06-12-2013, 02:11 PM
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Once sony stops supporting the ps3 ill get the ps4 once all the kinks work out. I learned that the hard way when I bought a ps2 in 2000 and a ps3 in 2006. I got ps1 in 1998.
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